SGL21 vs. SLR-107


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Alex45ACP
July 26, 2010, 07:27 PM
My friend wants to get an AK type rifle and has narrowed it down to these 2. The SLR-107 has a folding stock which may be useful for storage/transportation puroses, but other than that how do they compare to each other in terms of quality, weight, accuracy, availability of spare parts, etc.?

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Alex45ACP
August 4, 2010, 01:13 AM
Bump...

wally
August 4, 2010, 11:10 AM
My experience is that only the under-folders help with storage, but they are the worst as actual stocks. Most of the side-folders are good stocks when extended, but make the gun so wide it'll take two slots in the safe -- most of which aren't laid out for pistol grip guns.

If you are getting in and out of vehicles while carrying the rifle the folders make sense, but otherwise, get it only if you want another "evil" feature.

Since most everything on the AK is riveted, and the design minimizes parts count, there are not a lot of parts you can replace, most furniture requires minor fitting, the trigger parts are all basically the same, and the bolt/carrier tend to have minor differences based on country of origin.

Is it even possible to build an autoloader with fewer springs than an AK? (recoil spring, extractor spring, hammer spring, disconnecter spring)

--wally.

Hizzie
August 4, 2010, 05:53 PM
The SGL21 is a converted Saiga. It shares many parts with the AKM family of rifles but the bolt and bolt carrier are different and not interchangeable. Saiga specific parts are not as readily available.

The SLR-107 is a SA only AKM. It shares basically every part (keep the variety of tolerances among various producing nations in mind) with the rest of the AK family. You can pick up a spare bolt for the SLR fairly easily. The "AK-100 Series" folding stocks are quite simply the best there is for the AK. They fold when needed but when open they look, feel and handle like a fixed stock. Truly the best of both worlds.

In terms of quality they are very close with the SLR coming in ahead. Weights will be within ounces of each other. They will both be accurate, within the limits of the AK design and quality of ammo. People use crap steel cased surplus ammo and wonder why the AK groups 4-6 MOA. Spare parts is addressed above.

-v-
August 4, 2010, 07:32 PM
Hizzie: I wonder where you got your info on the Saiga line, as its waay off the mark.

The SGL21 is as close to a Russian Mil-spec AK as you can get in the states. First and foremost they are NOT "converted saigas." I would know, since I have an SGL-21 leaned up against the wall not 5 feet away from me.

They are in very much a semi-auto versions of the AK-103 series of rifles. They arrive in the states already in the proper AK-103 configuration. No conversions are done. The bolt, bolt carrier, and nearly every internal part is interchangeable with any other AK out there. For that matter, almost any part out of a Saiga sporting rifle can be swapped out with a regular AK, minus a FA FCG, of course.

They are sold under the Saiga umbrella, since that seems to have become IzMash's catch-all sporting line.

Between the two, I think both the SGL21 and SLR-107 are so similar that its a non-issue. Get the one that looks better to you. As wally said, there are things to be said for the folding stock for transport, but it does have its downs to storage. You can always replace the OEM stock with a M4-style or a folding M4-Style stock.

Mine is in the stock configuration, but I am heavily considering converting it with a VLTOR stock addaptor to an M4-style sliding stock. Accuracy has been good ~2MOA with quality ammo and a cool barrel. Only issue I have with it is weight, with it topping out at 10-11lbs with a 30 round magazine and optics.

Kurt_D
August 5, 2010, 02:43 AM
Having both, it'll all come down to whether you want a sidefolder or solid stock, or if you want Russian vs. Bulgarian.

I find myself rarely using the sidefolder on any of my sidefolders. Both the 21 and the 107 are confortable to shoot, the same really. I find my SGL a little more accurate but that could be because of a tight fitting brake on the SGL; the 107 has a little play to it and I know my 106's groups tightened up once carbon buildup took the play out of it's brake.

Parts are a non-issue, bolt's aren't hot swapable in AKs anyway. The 107 will use AKM guts and the SGL will use `74 guts. Example of a common spare part(s): the extractor & spring on the 107 is standard AKM and the firing pin is a spring loaded Bulgarian - Kvar has the parts. The 20/21 uses a `74 extractor & spring and firing pin.* The fire control groups and spring are the same for both.

*Comparing my SGL-20 to my SGL-31, Bulgarian AK-74 and Sar-2.

M2
August 13, 2010, 08:24 PM
-v-

Hate to bust your bubble, but the SGL20/21 (basically the same rifle, the 2 has an extra accessory lug) do enter this country as sporters. They are converted back into 922r-compliant AKs at Arsenal...from the brochure that comes with your rifle (http://www.arsenalinc.com/downloads/SGL21.pdf):

From the combined effort of Legion Ltd, the custom shop of the legendary Izhmash Factory in Russia, and Arsenal, Inc. of Las Vegas, Nevada comes a new SGL21 (Saiga) rifle in 7.62x39 caliber. Initially manufactured by Legion Ltd in Russia and remanufactured by Arsenal, Inc. in the United States, the new SGL21 rifle has everything that collectors and shooter have been looking for. Hand-select premium components, custom-shop-like attention to details by Legion Ltd, and Arsenal, Inc.’s highest standards of workmanship, give this rifle its superior quality. Arsenal, Inc. remanufactures the SGL21 rifles in the United States with 922r compliant parts and fills them with features not seen on any other factory Saiga rifles. Performing the most difficult modifications to achieve, Arsenal, Inc. has done a substantial work for the customer. The end result is the highest quality SGL21 rifle with the most desired features which have not been available before. Every unit is laser sighted and test fired. Targets are included with most of the rifles.

Or you can read the review from SPECIAL WEAPONS/OCTOBER 2009 (http://www.tactical-life.com/online/special-weapons/arsenal-sgl20-762x39mm/):

Known as a Saiga, the Legion Ltd. rifle imported into this country is manufactured in what has known as a “sporting configuration,” the trigger and trigger mechanism moved back to the rear of the receiver and the vertical pistol grip removed. In the place of it is a conventional-style curved pistol grip stock at the rear of the receiver. In addition, the Saiga’s magazine well cannot accept double-stack, high-capacity magazine, and the forend system is redesigned.

To legally reconfigure these Saiga rifles into an original-pattern Kalashnikov, it is required that a prescribed number of parts in the rifle be manufactured here in the United States. However, due to the extensive modifications required in making the Saigas legally importable, reconfiguring them into an original pattern is a little more involved than simply swapping out a few parts. In addition to the US-manufactured pieces, the magazine wells of the rifles must be cut open to accept high-capacity magazines and the triggerguard and trigger mechanism must be moved forward to accommodate the original-style pistol grip.

To make such extensive changes, Legion Ltd. wanted a company with the knowledge, skill set and background to properly do this work. “They were looking for a company that would maintain their renowned level of quality. We were looking for a high-quality product that would serve as a platform for our project,” Pakhanyan explains. He pointed out that Legion Ltd. was happy to learn that Arsenal Inc. had the proper tooling and quality control required to work on their rifles. According to Pakhanyan, the partnership was easily formed.


Arsenal does an excellent job and the final product is the closest thing to a Russian AK-103 you will find in this country; but it still does arrive on our shores as a sporterized Saiga...

Cheers! M2

briansmithwins
August 13, 2010, 10:43 PM
My SLR107FR has been excellent. All the small details are just right. That said, my shooting buddy has the SGL, and it's very nice too. You won't go wrong with either one.

Refinished with Duracoat after a failed camo attempt.

BSW

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/IMG_1585.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/IMG_1583.jpg

my762buzz
August 13, 2010, 11:12 PM
http://i26.tinypic.com/n477ky.jpg

AK 103 style - AKM style - AK 103 style (Saiga/SGL)


The saiga/Vepr 100 series bolt uses a longer head, thinner stem, and a distinct claw extractor. The Arsenal SLR I think from what I seen uses a hybrid proprietary bolt like the one below. Its not a standard 103 style nor is it a fat stem AKM type. The new style russian claw extractor is more reliable than the old AKM style. The new style bolt and carrier have an improved weight ratio relation for better feeding and extraction. The new style 90 degree gas block versus the old 45 degree gas block is an accuracy enhancement. The new Russian Saiga/SGL rifles are fairly modern in their design components. The 7.62x39 bolt body is about the only part not readily available in surplus parts for this caliber, but the 5.45 bolt seems to interchange with the AK74 surplus bolts. I have searched for broken Russian AK bolt reports and never found one. I would be surprised to find even one report.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/images/AK-101S.jpg

Girodin
August 13, 2010, 11:58 PM
They are in very much a semi-auto versions of the AK-103 series of rifles. They arrive in the states already in the proper AK-103 configuration. No conversions are done.

ummm I hate to tell you that you are rather mistaken.

If that were true it would be a rather notable violation of the law. Oh and every time you stuck a 30 round mag in it you would be "assembling" (as per ATF definitions) a non 922r compliant rifle and breaking federal law as well. If they could import them in that configuration then the sporter saiga line wouldn't even exist. THe sporters are around only so they can get them in country.

-v-
August 13, 2010, 11:59 PM
M2 that's surprising. My main basis for that was that the SGL21 does not have the bolt-hold-open lever, or the cut for that lever on it. As I understand, all the sporter Saiga rifles have that cut for the bolt-hold-open mechanism (holds the bolt back, must be manually engaged). The other is the lack of the two extra rivet holes in the rear of the receiver that must be covered up, that seem to be ubiquitous on most all Saiga conversions that I have seen. The point raised of it would not be 992(r) Kosher, is a valid point too.

Girodin
August 14, 2010, 12:23 AM
My main basis for that was that the SGL21 does not have the bolt-hold-open lever, or the cut for that lever on it. As I understand, all the sporter Saiga rifles have that cut for the bolt-hold-open mechanism (holds the bolt back, must be manually engaged).

Don't you think they could simply weld it and the other additional holes up?

Look at a tromix gun, what configuration do you think you send it to them in and yet it comes back with no extra holes.

my762buzz
August 14, 2010, 12:28 AM
ummm I hate to tell you that you are rather mistaken.

If that were true it would be a rather notable violation of the law. Oh and every time you stuck a 30 round mag in it you would be "assembling" (as per ATF definitions) a non 922r compliant rifle and breaking federal law as well. If they could import them in that configuration then the sporter saiga line wouldn't even exist. THe sporters are around only so they can get them in country.

This issue has been unresolved on other boards. My SGL has no weld up holes where the regular Saiga rear pins are and the trigger guard had non-russian factory paint. These are suppose to be Saiga-"Legion Custom Shop" products. My best guess is that they are imported without the parts that would be replaced anyway for compliance:trigger group, pistol grip, stock, and handguard. The bayonet lug would be the only thing that might prevent such but there is not enough info to easily determine how exactly they manage to slip these in.

my762buzz
August 14, 2010, 12:42 AM
No visible weld up holes.

http://i40.tinypic.com/24dil4o.jpg

M2
August 14, 2010, 12:23 PM
-v-

Yeah, but the good news is that Arsenal does such an excellent job with the conversion that it's easy to put it out of one's mind that they hit these shores looking something like one of these!

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/jeshorton/saiga.jpg

I had a few folks try to convince me to just buy a sporter and do the conversion myself, but I didn't want to spend the time and effort to do so and honestly I don't think the end result is the same. The SGL20/21s are Legion built which puts them above the average rifle that comes out of the Izhmash factory (http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/).

So I wouldn't let this info bother you, in the end we are still getting the closest thing to an AK-103 that can be found in this country; and one of the sweetest AKs on the market!

Cheers! M2

Girodin
August 14, 2010, 03:23 PM
I had a few folks try to convince me to just buy a sporter and do the conversion myself, but I didn't want to spend the time and effort to do so and honestly I don't think the end result is the same.

Oh yeah there is totally a night and day difference between the Arsenal and the following converted saigas :rolleyes:

http://home.comcast.net/~f1lite/firearms/images/ak103/oa_ol.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~f1lite/firearms/images/ak103/oa_cr.jpg

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=12218

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=13402


http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=13108

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=9745

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=10085

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2727/p10101027xc.jpg


This is a small sampling. I could post many more but I think the above suffices to the my point.

Plus those raving about the SLG seem to be operating on the presumption that the AK103 look alike format of the rifle is necessarily better than another set up. However, that certainly isn't the case for everyone. Nothing in the OP suggests that the OP believes that to be the case. If you are building it for function doing it yourself makes even more sense because you can set it up in a way that best serves you.

http://s.savona.free.fr/ak/DSCF0007.JPG


http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4746/img0058bu4.jpg

In sum those saying that only the mighty Arsenal can make such a rifle are ill informed and project their own inabilities and insecurities in doing a little project onto everyone else.

For what it is worth I would rather have a rifle like those pictured below than an Arsenal and it would cost less as well (sans optics).

http://www.toastygoodness.com/Jason/Parf%27s%20Draco%20036.jpg


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAUqcSKIaDe5aF1ItPcOoIHmzIoQoC4U3PKctqEw_aNjcnGb8&t=1&usg=__JuSUAElEaE5vo-jeFjPijjh94YE=

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNpAqM6d_xSnpOf94TRuF_2EdO6DyXmO1YxOOKYg78upFkDr8&t=1&usg=__h3fRbcuFAa0qc9mKu5aE8Gqlu-k=

my762buzz
August 14, 2010, 05:32 PM
Yeah, but the good news is that Arsenal does such an excellent job with the conversion that it's easy to put it out of one's mind that they hit these shores looking something like one of these!

I used to think they were imported like that for Arsenal, but with dimples. Welded up holes should have a different steel grain pattern.

I stripped all the Russian Izmash paint off my receiver and can't see a slight hint of different grain pattern. If they can get those imported without

enough parts (not complete/not unimportable), then this would explain how. Yeah, obviously the SGL 10 would have been imported like sporters but if the

SGL 20/21/31 actually arrive as sporters then the conversion is absolutely flawless which is amazing.

philpost
August 14, 2010, 05:53 PM
I'd like to ask Girodin a question: why is it that someone asks an opinion between an Arsenal AK and X AK or between 2 Arsenal AK's, your answer is always "convert a Saiga yourself"? Even when someone honestly says they don't want to spend the time or effort to do it, you slam them saying "they're projecting their own insecurities and inabilities"? What do you think you're projecting?
For the record, those converted Saiga's are visually as nice as any Arsenal. I have no doubt they function as well as they look.
In addition, there are are other manufacturers that probably do as good a job (or possibly even better) as Arsenal, including AK-USA here in Ft. Myers, Ohio Ordinance, and Krebs. I have no stock in Arsenal, only a rifle that looks and works fine.
But instead of coming down on anyone considering an Arsenal, how about doing something constructive, like helping KCMARINE who is in the middle of a conversion, seems to be at a delicate point, and has some technical questions so he doesn't screw up the job?
Let's play nice, huh?

Girodin
August 14, 2010, 08:40 PM
Even when someone honestly says they don't want to spend the time or effort to do it, you slam them saying "they're projecting their own insecurities and inabilities"? What do you think you're projecting?

Did the OP ever state he didn't want to spend the time and effort?

Let's play nice, huh?

It was asserted, with nothing to back it up, in this thread that a home conversion will not be as nice as an Arsenal. I merely produced evidence to the contrary as opposed to a baseless blanket statement. I'm not sure what is not playing nice about that.

why is it that someone asks an opinion between an Arsenal AK and X AK or between 2 Arsenal AK's, your answer is always "convert a Saiga yourself"?

By always do you mean the two recent threads that involved discussions of the SLG or are you truly saying always? If it is the first, it is because based on what the OPs in those two threads stated their requirements and desires were a self converted saiga (to what ever format the OP likes) represents a much better value IMHO and certainly would be the functional equivalent for their intended uses to the more expensive arsenal.

But instead of coming down on anyone considering an Arsenal, how about doing something constructive,

I've never "come down on" anyone considering an Arsenal. I have given what is another viable less expensive option. I have asked those saying an arsenal is on a different level than a converted saiga or that a saiga cannot be made to be the equivalent to back up their assertions which none of them have done BTW. I have not however come down on anyone. I have been much more constructive than those spouting baseless nonsense.

how about doing something constructive, like helping KCMARINE who is in the middle of a conversion, seems to be at a delicate point, and has some technical questions so he doesn't screw up the job?

If I catch a moment I'll go explain the incredibly delicate and technical process of drilling and tapping a hole.

M2
August 14, 2010, 08:48 PM
Well, for one someone who converts a sporterized Saiga is not getting a rifle that was originally built by the Legion custom shop; but I am sure they will debate that difference away as well! :rolleyes:

Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass; I don't have the time to be messing around with trying to convert one over and since I've got the money to afford buying a SGL20 outright, I went that route. Once you factor in the parts and time it takes to build one from a sporter, you are close to the $645 that I paid for mine last month anyway.

If someone's jealous about that, then that's their problem! :neener:

philpost
August 14, 2010, 08:53 PM
If anyone would like to see a constructive answer on conversions, given by a helpful member, see this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=538737 Based on the in-depth answer, I guess it is a somewhat delicate and technical process.
M2 - you took the words out of my mouth. I'm not sure if Legion makes the sporterized Saiga's or not, only that I've been happy with my SGL-20, and I paid about the same price as you.

Girodin
August 14, 2010, 09:49 PM
for one someone who converts a sporterized Saiga is not getting a rifle that was originally built by the Legion custom shop;

In what ways does the rifle perform better? No seriously educate me.


If someone's jealous about that, then that's their problem!

You can afford a six hundred dollar rifle?! OMG you must be like Bill Gates or something! That rifle costs about what the mount and the aimpoint on my poor man's converted gun cost. It is half the price of my Noveske. Clearly I am jealous as all get out. Maybe if I win the lottery I can one day afford a sub $700 rifle. Until then I guess I'll just have to dream. If you are going to try to assert superiority through your things you probably need to get nicer stuff. Growing up would likely serve you better though.

Once you factor in the parts and time it takes to build one from a sporter, you are close to the $645 that I paid for mine last month anyway.

Again your contention is based on the idea that everyone wants an AK103 clone or will build to look like one. Some people really care for that look. Some people may find that a different configuration suits them better. You can easily spend much more or much less depending exactly what you want to do. None of my AKs are AK103 clones. As they sit some are cheaper than the SLG some not so much. If one determines that having that look is of particular value to them then whether the SLG is the best choice is a different conversation. In this thread the OP never listed that as being a consideration or part of his criteria.


I guess it is a somewhat delicate and technical process.

You are mistaken or have very liberal definitions of technical and delicate. I think it is telling that the anti conversion crowd and those that think Arsenal is doing something real special think that drilling and tapping a hole is a chore.

Girodin
August 14, 2010, 09:57 PM
If one doesn't want to or is not mechanically inclined enough and wants to buy an Arsenal more power to them. The OP is has not indicated that is the case. There is nothing wrong with the Arsenal but it is not the best value given the OPs requirements. Change the stated requirements and it might well be.

kcmarine
August 14, 2010, 10:37 PM
Get a Saiga. Might have more snob appeal to some. Idk. It just feels right that an AK be from Russia. Though Bulgarian rifles are nothing to sneeze at, either.

As far as parts availability goes, it's really just customization parts you'll have to worry about... i.e., stocks, muzzle devices, etc. The internals of the AK are not something you'll have to worry about, short of something catastrophic happening. The bolt on the AK you choose (either Saiga or Bulgy) will most likely outlast you. AKs are basically indestructable regardless of how much maintenance you give them and civilian-owned ones that are taken care of will probably last several generations longer than their original owners. If "spare parts" availability is weighing in on your decision, don't let it do so. Short of insanely bad ammo, you cannot do anything to an AK in the course of range work to make it not work.

philpost
August 14, 2010, 10:40 PM
If one doesn't want to or is not mechanically inclined enough and wants to buy an Arsenal more power to them. The OP is has not indicated that is the case. There is nothing wrong with the Arsenal but it is not the best value given the OPs requirements. Change the stated requirements and it might well be.
Actually, the OP's requirements are to help his friend in choosing between 2 Arsenal models, AFTER he had narrowed the field down to those 2. Were his research methods exaustive and thorough? I don't know. All I know is we were asked to help his friend make a choice. I happen to own a similar model to one of the 2. Is it the greatest AK ever that puts all others to shame? I doubt it, but it's a nice rifle nonetheless, that I've never had buyers remorse over. Am I some technical incompetant who is incapable of doing a conversion? Probably not - I've had experience in metal drilling and stamping, welding, and assembly. However, I don't have a dedicated work area in my present living arrangement, nor do I have the tools and machinery to do what I consider a top-notch job. So I choose not to. If that's a black mark against me, so be it.
Were you emotionally wounded by someone who owned an Arsenal once?:scrutiny:

philpost
August 14, 2010, 10:44 PM
Get a Saiga. Might have more snob appeal to some. Idk. It just feels right that an AK be from Russia. Though Bulgarian rifles are nothing to sneeze at, either.
The Arsenal's are built on Saiga platforms from the Legion custom shop (?) in the Izmash factory in Russia, they just have the conversion work done already

kcmarine
August 14, 2010, 10:51 PM
The Arsenal's are built on Saiga platforms from the Legion custom shop (?) in the Izmash factory in Russia, they just have the conversion work done already

Well, I mean, between the Bulgarian Arsenal and Russian Arsenal, the Russian rifle will have a big more "zazz" simply from being originally produced on the same assembly line as the AK 103. It's more of a subjective metric but it does count to some.

M2
August 14, 2010, 11:13 PM
Jeez, I thought all the *******s owned ARs...I guess someone on here is proving that just isn't true!

OK, Girodin, you win, you are the mightiest, most knowledgeable AK owner on here and we are all idiots in comparison. If we don't build our rifles then we will never have ones as good as yours (most of which look ridiculous in my opinion, which is how I feel about anyone who tries to "AR" their AKs!). I guess you can go idolize yourself in the mirror some more, you are "Mr Tacti-Cool" and thanks for ruining what was a decent forum for discussion and information...

Oh, and whenever you want to match up my 25 years of military service to whatever you've done in your life, let me know. I am sure I will be very impressed by those credentials as well...

I'm done here, there are much better venues to discuss AKs where weak-dick know-it-alls don't ruin the discussion with the self-fornication!

Girodin
August 15, 2010, 02:10 AM
Actually, the OP's requirements are to help his friend in choosing between 2 Arsenal models, AFTER he had narrowed the field down to those 2.

I conflated the two threads in my response. My mistake.

Am I some technical incompetant who is incapable of doing a conversion? Probably not - I've had experience in metal drilling and stamping, welding, and assembly. However, I don't have a dedicated work area in my present living arrangement, nor do I have the tools and machinery to do what I consider a top-notch job. So I choose not to. If that's a black mark against me, so be it.

Not a black mark a reasoned decision that makes sense for you and probably many others.

Girodin
August 15, 2010, 02:34 AM
Jeez, I thought all the *******s owned ARs

Insinuating a mean name, I'm truly hurt. If it makes you feel better I own an AR too.

If we don't build our rifles then we will never have ones as good as yours

What have I said on this thread that can be construed to imply that? Nothing. You are the one that suggested that a home conversion could never match an Arsenal SLG. I merely pointed out with proof that you were incorrect in that assertion.

If we don't build our rifles then we will never have ones as good as yours (most of which look ridiculous in my opinion

You've seen most of my rifles? Really? When? and Where? Or are you just making one more statement that has no foundation what so ever?


you are the mightiest, most knowledgeable AK owner on here and we are all idiots in comparison.

No that is Nalioth, serious that guy knows AKs.

Sorry that asking you to back up your baseless assertions ruined the discussion for you. I must note that you never did back them up but instead unleashed a rant of ad hominems.

So you didn't impress with your ability to buy a sub $700 gun so now you are going to try to dick measure by boasting about having a job where about the only requirement is that you are not openly into having sex with other men (and even that is on the way out). Impressive. I am already regretting that my life went so awry and I had to seek higher education and a post graduate degree in lieu of a low paying military career. I have many friends in the military. I actual worked over seas for the DOD for a while. There is nothing wrong with a career in the military but it certainly isn't anything overly impressive. If you were a CINC or on the joint chiefs of staff or the like that is one thing, but then I'm sure you would have told us that since you are such an eager beaver to let everyone know you are better than me. I'll reiterate what I said when you tried to wow with your spending prowess; grow up.

I'm done here, there are much better venues to discuss AKs where weak-dick know-it-alls don't ruin the discussion with the self-fornication!

Let me translate. I spouted non-sesne, made assertions that something was better than something else and when I was asked to explain my reasoning and what made thing A better I didn't have a thing to say so I called names and got made and feigned disinterest in the discussion so I wouldn't have to admit I made baseless comments.

If that is what will make you happy go for it.

Girodin
August 15, 2010, 02:36 AM
On a more serious note I really would like to hear an explanation of how the Legion custom shop rifle outperforms a converted saiga. Apparently asking that question ruffled feathers but if I don't think it is an unreasonable or rude question.

my762buzz
August 15, 2010, 03:39 AM
On a more serious note I really would like to hear an explanation of how the Legion custom shop rifle outperforms a converted saiga. Apparently asking that question ruffled feathers but if I don't think it is an unreasonable or rude question.

There is but one thing the legion custom shop saiga has that is functionally significant over a common saiga currently manufactured and that is a non-stepped chamber. A non-stepped chamber is easier on brass if you happen to reload.
See post #64 for reference
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7303&st=60

Everything else functional can be added on from surplus parts to a regular saiga in a proper conversion. However, some regular saigas have been imported without a stepped chamber.
I keep seeing reports of new saigas without steps in the past year or so. I happen to see one that a family member bought that had no step, dimples, retainer side grooves, and a threaded muzzle. That was luck.

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