Mailing firearm to myself


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Bullnettles
July 26, 2010, 08:20 PM
Ok, I couldn't find the sticky, even after the search... My father has my lower that I want to get, but is kind of far away. The lower is in my name, can he mail it to me directly? If this has been answered elsewhere, please point me in that direction, but I can't find the stinking sticky:confused:

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Sam1911
July 26, 2010, 08:31 PM
From ATF's online FAQ (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html):

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.


Now, extending this to your dad shipping your gun to you is a stretch, I think. He couldn't ship HIS firearm to you in another state.

If this is interstate (meaning you're just at opposite ends of the same state) then it would be fine as long as your state laws allow.

(And, unless your state has some kind of registry, your rifle really isn't "IN" your name. It was sold to you, but it could have been legally transferred any number of times without any paper trail whatsoever.)

deadin
July 26, 2010, 08:33 PM
If your father mails it to you, you aren't mailing it to yourself.
As I understand it, YOU have to put it in the mail and then pick it up on the other end.

Sam1911
July 26, 2010, 08:49 PM
and then pick it up on the other end. You don't have to take receipt of the package, but you must be the one to open it and take possession of the firearm.

Bullnettles
July 26, 2010, 08:50 PM
Thank you Sam, and although there is no way to prove it was him that mailed it to me, I don't believe I will take the chance. It is in my name, but still, I'd rather not have problems. Thank you again.

dogtown tom
July 26, 2010, 08:56 PM
Bullnettles Ok, I couldn't find the sticky, even after the search... My father has my lower that I want to get, but is kind of far away. The lower is in my name, can he mail it to me directly? If this has been answered elsewhere, please point me in that direction, but I can't find the stinking sticky

There are two issues:
1. Only you can ship it to yourself, your father would have to ship it via common carrier.
2. A lower, frame or receiver cannot be mailed, it must be shipped via a common carrier such as UPS or FedEx.
Only licensed dealers, manufacturers and in certain instances LEO may use the USPS to mail handguns and "other firearms".
Nonlicensees are only allowed to mail rifles and shotguns.
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1198527

Gord
July 26, 2010, 09:09 PM
Out of curiosity, what's the process for mailing a firearm (specifically a handgun) to oneself across state lines, if any? Might be less of a hassle than trying to check a firearm onto a plane.

almostfree
July 26, 2010, 09:11 PM
You cannot mail a handgun to yourself across state lines. It is not illegal to ship one to yourself by UPS or FEDEX but good luck getting them to take shipment. I found that it was practically impossible to ship a handgun to myself and ended up having to check them on the airplane the three times I have relocated to Alaska (since driving was not an option with handguns).

dogtown tom, would a lower that has already been made into a rifle still not be a long gun\rifle? For instance, if I have an AR-15 that I bought complete and I needed to send in the lower only, would it still be non-mailable?

dogtown tom
July 26, 2010, 09:16 PM
Tactical Ninja Out of curiosity, what's the process for mailing a firearm (specifically a handgun) to oneself across state lines, if any? Might be less of a hassle than trying to check a firearm onto a plane.

As posted above, USPS regulations prohibit anyone other than a licensed dealer or manufacturer from mailing a handgun.

You'll have to use a common carrier.
UPS policy allows you to ship to yourself: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=3&srch_phr=handgun
FedEx policy does not:http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/

Expect to have problems when you or the UPS/FedEx clerk do not know the firearms shipping policies. Note that BOTH UPS & FedEx require you to ship from a Customer Service Center- not a UPS Store, FedEx Kinkos or third party retailer. Try that and they will certainly refuse.

.

orionengnr
July 26, 2010, 09:27 PM
Dogtown Tom--
I don't believe he is talking about a handgun.

He has twice used the word "lower" which I would surmise to be an AR15 lower. Since the lower is the serialized part, isn't the lower the "firearm" by definition? And being a rifle lower, wouldn't he be able to ship using USPS?

Just curious...

almostfree
July 26, 2010, 09:29 PM
I believe he was responding to tactical ninja's question and not the original poster's question.

nalioth
July 26, 2010, 10:11 PM
If this is interstate (meaning you're just at opposite ends of the same state) then it would be fine as long as your state laws allow. Sam, "interstate" means 'having to do with multiple states". Interstate transfers between two parties requires an FFL on the receiving end.

The word that fits your description is "intrastate". This means "inside the same state".

dogtown tom
July 26, 2010, 10:40 PM
orionengnr:...Since the lower is the serialized part, isn't the lower the "firearm" by definition? And being a rifle lower, wouldn't he be able to ship using USPS?

Correct, an AR lower receiver IS the serialized part and is considered a firearm all by itself.

ATF however, has determined that a lower, frame, receiver and certain other firearms are considered an "Other Firearm". Meaning it is not yet a rifle, shotgun or handgun. Beginning in October 2008 the ATF added "Other Firearm" next to "Handgun" & "Long Gun" on the Form 4473 where the FFL chooses "Type of firearm". Another common "Other Firearm" would be shotguns that have a pistol grip only- meaning they are not intended to be fired from the shoulder. "Other Firearms" require the purchaser to be 21 years of age- even if they intend to build a rifle out of it.

When an FFL receives an AR lower it is entered into our books as an "Other Firearm", regardless if the buyer intends to make it into a pistol or rifle. Although some manufacturers may have "Pistol" marked on their lowers it means nothing- unless the lower has BOTH a barrel and stock attached it is still an "Other Firearm".

So........no, a mere mortal cannot ship a lower receiver, frame or "pistol grip only" shotgun via the USPS as postal regulations only allow them to mail rifles and shotguns. Dealers and manufacturers can mail handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the body by USPS.

Sam1911
July 27, 2010, 06:44 AM
Sam, "interstate" means 'having to do with multiple states". Interstate transfers between two parties requires an FFL on the receiving end.

The word that fits your description is "intrastate". This means "inside the same state".


Yup! And, once again, we see the importance of not typing faster than your brain can process the right vocabulary. (Doh!)

Thanks nalioth!

esq_stu
July 27, 2010, 05:17 PM
If the lower is owned by the person receiving it and it is not being transferred, then the person shipping it is an agent for the owner. This is the same as mailing to oneself. And this is allowed, as a receiver is not a firearm under USPS rules.

Moreover, the fact that a lower receiver has a pistol grip does not make it a weapon that can be concealed for purposes of using the U.S. mail. The postal regulations (http://www.cgwgun.com/shipping/usps.aspx) covering firearms are the rules that apply, and not the ATF rules. 18 USC 1715. Firearms as nonmailable; regulations.
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried by the mails or delivered by any officer or employee of the Postal Service. Such articles may be conveyed in the mails, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe.IMO, the fact that the ATF considers the part with serial number to be the firearm does not make a receiver a firearm under the postal rules. Nowhere in the linked postal regulations is a receiver that cannot fire considered a firearm.

Please post conflicting information, including citations for actual rules, if you disagree. I am not always right, but I give the the Post Office where I live a lot of shipping business and I tell them what I am shipping.

dogtown tom
July 27, 2010, 08:02 PM
esq_stu: If the lower is owned by the person receiving it and it is not being transferred, then the person shipping it is an agent for the owner. This is the same as mailing to oneself. .
"Agent" :scrutiny:of the owner means absolutely nothing. Mailing it yourself does not mean having an agent mail it for you. Please provide the citation that mentions an "agent" may mail the firearm.

esq_stu:..And this is allowed, as a receiver is not a firearm under USPS rules
Oh yes it is! See 11.1.1 c. And a receiver IS ALSO a firearm under ATF regulations, which by the way are codified in Federal law. Just because USPS may use slightly different language does not change the legal definition of a firearm.

esq_stu: ...Moreover, the fact that a lower receiver has a pistol grip does not make it a weapon that can be concealed for purposes of using the U.S. mail. The postal regulations (http://www.cgwgun.com/shipping/usps.aspx) covering firearms are the rules that apply, and not the ATF rules.
Read those postal regulations you linked to. If the RECEIVER (a firearm under Federal law) is concealable- you can't mail it unless you are a dealer or manufacturer. Further, as a pistol grip only shotgun is NOT a shotgun under ATF regulations it is not mailable via USPS as USPS ONLY allows nonlicensees to mail rifles or shotguns. Good luck if you think you ATF regs don't apply.

Quote:
18 USC 1715. Firearms as nonmailable; regulations.
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried by the mails or delivered by any officer or employee of the Postal Service. Such articles may be conveyed in the mails, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe.
Your own quote- If you can hide it, it ain't mailable except by a dealer or manufacturer.

esq_stu:..IMO, the fact that the ATF considers the part with serial number to be the firearm does not make a receiver a firearm under the postal rules. Nowhere in the linked postal regulations is a receiver that cannot fire considered a firearm.
Again, you're mistaken. USPS regulations are codified in Federal law just like ATF regs- they BOTH apply. And BTW a receiver IS a firearm and 11.1.1 c (below) specifically NOT MAILABLE except by a dealer or manufacturer.
"11.1.1 c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon."


esq_stu:Please post conflicting information, including citations for actual rules, if you disagree. I am not always right, but I give the the Post Office where I live a lot of shipping business and I tell them what I am shipping.
Try reading the actual US Code (both USPS and ATF stuff) The actual citations have been posted ad infinitum in this thread and others. If you choose to believe that the USPS determines what is or isn't a firearm, good luck sir- you'll need it eventually.

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