7.62x39 AR?


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Purgatory
July 29, 2010, 09:06 PM
Did a search-didn't find much.

I've wondered about this for years. With the price and penetration of 7.62x39 and all the wonderful advantages of the AR platform, is this a match made in combat-heaven or an abomination?

Seems like a nice middle-of-the-road between .308 and .223.

Anyone own one?

Opinions?

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Zanad
July 29, 2010, 09:10 PM
hold on, this is a recent thread you missed

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=535566

alot of good info, but in my oppinion, mags are the greatest weakness to this chambering in ar-15

lobo9er
July 29, 2010, 09:11 PM
Only question I have is if the AR extractor is gonna keep up with the steel cased ammo. I too have pondered the x39 AR. Good medium size game round.

Purgatory
July 29, 2010, 09:19 PM
Lobo it seems like it be loads of fun to hunt with or do some Serious Plinkin' Work.

Thanks, Zanad. That'll probably answer my questions.

Any other opinions are welcome. I'll review both threads unless Mod wants to lock it up.

Maverick223
July 29, 2010, 09:46 PM
in my oppinion, mags are the greatest weakness to this chambering in ar-15+1, this is what led me to look elsewhere for a 7.62x39mm carbine. FWIW, I wasn't looking at purchasing an AR, but a different platform (MSAR E4) using AR type magazines. The factory went through 3-4 lots of different revision magazines (all from C-Products) and last I heard none operated well enough to be released. In fact it performed so poorly that the factory was debating scrapping the project...this is when I cancelled my order.

:)

Purgatory
July 29, 2010, 09:52 PM
I seem to be finding a handful of people confirming some feeding issues.

If they're not equally or more reliable than a SKS or AK, there's no point.

Especially at 3-4 times the price.

rbernie
July 29, 2010, 10:17 PM
I have several 7.62x39 AR15s that I built some years back. I used one of them for hunting extensively, and dropped many deer and hog with it.

In years past, magazines were the weak link in the system. The tapered case of the 7.62x39 demands a curved magazine (like the AKs) and the long straight magwell of the AR platform doesn't work with curved magazines too well. MGW made low-cap mags that were OK, mostly, and that's what I used. Various folk tried to make FrankenMags, by welding a curved AK mag lower onto an AR straight upper mag section. They were hard to find, and quite variable in their quality.

C Products made several generations of 7.62x39 AR mags, starting about four-five years ago. Their first efforts were utter failures. Their latest magazine works, and (for me) works quite well. I have many of them, and they all have proven reliable. Some folk reported having weak springs and having to substitute AK springs in the mag to make them reliable, but I have had none of those issues.

My hunting AR15 will put five rounds of my handloads into an inch, plus or minus a wee bit depending on things, at a hundred yards, and do so all day long. It will not do that with cheap Russian ammo, of course, and I didn't built the rifles to use cheap ammo as much as I wanted the AR platform to be useful for hunting and other such things.

I have moved to the 6.8SPC platform for most of my AR15 hunting uses, since that round works much better in the AR platform and had equal-to-slightly-better performance compared to the 7.62x39. However, I have kept the 7.62x39 rifles, because they work and are simply kinda cool to have around. I can handload 6.8SPC ammo for not much more than 7.62x39, and I save a lot of coin by buying Silver State ammo when I find it on clearance.

If you're going to buy/build a 7.62x39 AR15 for use with the cheap Russian ammo, you will want to pay attention to the quality of the chamber (my hunting barrel has a tight chamber and gets finicky about extracting some steel cased ammo) and you will want to pay attention to the firing pin protrusion.

wally
July 29, 2010, 10:45 PM
Some folk reported having weak springs and having to substitute AK springs in the mag to make them reliable,

I'd be one of them, but I'm happy to say the two most recent C-Products 30 round AR 7.62x39 both worked 100% out of the wrapper. Maybe they have figured things out, or just gave up and bought some AK mags springs from Bulgaria :)

mongo4567
July 30, 2010, 01:29 AM
I have a Colt Match in 7.62x39, it is a great gun. Reasonably accurate and fun to shoot. I don't remember shooting anything but steel cased ammo. The mags are the weak point. I use only the factory Colt or USA franken-mags. They are a little hard to find and pricey, but they work great. I tried the first gen C-Products mags and they didn't work, but the company were good folks and happily made it right. I may try the latest ones.

A and O
July 30, 2010, 02:42 AM
Or you could just buy a Mini 30. Reliable as the day is long and every bit or more so accurate as other platforms in 7.62x39.

Purgatory
July 30, 2010, 03:36 AM
That's interesting about the x39 cartridge shape needing a more curved mag than the .223. Makes perfect sense but never heard it before.

Heard lots good about the 6.8, but thought one of the cool aspects of a x39 AR would be the availability and affordability of ammo.

rbernie:

If you're going to buy/build a 7.62x39 AR15 for use with the cheap Russian ammo, you will want to pay attention to the quality of the chamber (my hunting barrel has a tight chamber and gets finicky about extracting some steel cased ammo) and you will want to pay attention to the firing pin protrusion.
Yesterday 07:52 PM


Would this be due to the lacquer or polymer coatings on the russian ammo gumming up the chamber?

And as far as pin protrusion, you mean more protrusion for the hard russian primers?

rbernie
July 30, 2010, 09:51 AM
Would this be due to the lacquer or polymer coatings on the russian ammo gumming up the chamber?Yes, but the bigger issue is that steel cases do not expand and contract the same amount nor with the same 'timing' as brass. In short, steel cases tend to not spring back from their fully expanded shape as rapidly as brass and therefore the autoloader's extraction timing (which is normally 'timed' for brass cartridges) tends to want to yank the steel case out of the chamber before it's really and truly released from the chamber walls. This effect is more pronounced if the chamber is on the tight side anyway, while larger chambers and/or slicker chambers (chrome lined or highly polished) help in this regard.

And as far as pin protrusion, you mean more protrusion for the hard russian primers? Both hardness and primer seating are issues; Russian ammo tends to have deeper primer pockers, and the primers are more 'recessed' as a result. The firing pin simply needs a wee bit o' extra 'reach' to get to the primer, and then it needs to have enough momentum to give it a good 'ding'. THR member krocus documented a field-expedient way to easily modify the AR firing pin to give the needed protrusion, and a search here should turn that up.

rbernie
August 4, 2010, 12:39 PM
Finally dug up this old picture from some years back. The story was that this hunter was still-hunting deer in the NoTexas brush and encountered this ~500lb boar at contact distance. Our hapless hunter was armed with a 7.62x39 AR15, and (while not the optimal choice for Biggie Piggie) the rifle and chambering were adequate to the task, with all shots being heart/lung and providing near-complete penetration.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=125350&d=1280936159

Purgatory
August 4, 2010, 05:43 PM
Not sure why this post only showed up today as having a response, but I sure appreciate the info, rbernie.

I have read stories about the early M16's in 'NAM having issues with the extractor Ripping the rim of the cartridge off when attempting to extract due to unrealized, at the time, issues with fouling in the field. (Leaving the remainder of the cartridge practically fused inside the chamber.)

While this would be more than inconvenient during a hunt, it would be an issue of nightmarish proportion during battle.

Our hapless hunter was armed with a 7.62x39 AR15, and (while not the optimal choice for Biggie Piggie) the rifle and chambering were adequate to the task, with all shots being heart/lung and providing near-complete penetration.


You say ALL shots. Any idea how many it took to bring down this 'Zilla?

That is a Beast. No need for camera tricks to make this score look BIGGER.

rbernie
August 4, 2010, 08:42 PM
Four shots, all in the heart/lung area. Shot one was a killing shot (through both lungs and the heart) from left-to-right, and dropped the hog at 7 yards distance as he turned to 'investigate' the hunter. Biggie Piggie got back up after about 10-15 seconds, and in response got hit with another left-to-right shot that dropped him again. Hunter circled around while Biggie Piggie struggled to get back up, and the third shot moved right-to-left, stopping under the offhand shoulder hide. Piggie dropped and stayed down for a wee bit, but then got back up with a head of steam and headed for the hunter. Shot four entered from the top behind the head, sadly missing the spine but angling almost straight down and stopping in the ribcage after once again traversing the mush that was the pig's thoracic goo. At that point, the pig gave up the ghost.

Several bullets were recovered - Sierra 125gr pills that had mushroomed completely but held together very well considering the plating that they had to traverse. There would have been no blood trail, since the rounds did not provide a gushing exit wound, but they penetrated more than enough to be fatal.

The carbine used was built from a Shaw 16" barrel with a low-pro gas block and a M1S rifle-length float tube, using a standard lower and a MGW 5rd magazine stoked with handloads (RP brass, Sierra 125s, and 27gr of H4198).

Zerodefect
August 4, 2010, 09:29 PM
Don't forget 6.8spc if your into hunting. Way better range than 7.62x49.

But for a defensive 14.5" middie build, 7.62x49 would be a good match.
Longer range shooting would prefere the 6.8 or a heavy 5.56 70gn Barnes TSX.

Purgatory
August 4, 2010, 09:34 PM
Yeah, the rifle in the pic making contact with the pig is the confirming key to the true size of the animal.

Assuming ~32" OAL, you can lay the rifle length-wise from tip of nose to where tail touches rump a little more than twice.

Looks like a good solid 6ft to me.

See, this is a perfect post with pic for this thread. My whole interest in the x39 AR comes from any scenario of this kind where you may have an AR in .223, fairly sufficient for anything man-weight and under, and wish you had a larger, heavier projectile.

Here in the south, wild pigs are EVERYWHERE and open season all year round. What better purpose to have more than .223 when you could run into one of THESE dudes while hunting Bambi?

Great story and one of the better hunting pics I've seen.

Kudos to the x39 AR.

rbernie
August 4, 2010, 09:52 PM
In fairness, a 6.8SPC will do everything that the 7.62x39 AR will, trading the ability to shoot cheap Russian ammo (assuming that the 7.62x39 AR is set up for that) for a round that is better suited to the mag well of the AR15 platform. It's a lot easier to make a 6.8SPC AR15 mag work well than it is to make a 7.62x39 AR15 magazine work well.

See, this is a perfect post with pic for this thread. My whole interest in the x39 AR comes from any scenario of this kind where you may have an AR in .223, fairly sufficient for anything man-weight and under, and wish you had a larger, heavier projectile.
Either 6.8SPC or 7.62x39 will do exactly what you want; it's just a matter of decided what factors to weight most heavily.

Purgatory
August 4, 2010, 11:30 PM
Well, it seems the 6.8 is much closer to the original cartridge the AR was designed around.

So, for all practical purposes, maybe it's the better way to go.

Though the x39 is a cheap, fun round for play and, as in this case, serious business, I'm not sure I'd be interested in all the extra tweaking it sounds like it might take to get an AR platform to run it reliably.

rbernie
August 4, 2010, 11:34 PM
www.silverstatearmory.com

They are likely the best friend of any 6.8SPC shooter who doesn't reload. ;)

porterdog
August 5, 2010, 09:37 AM
rbernie, Post 12: great info, well presented, very very interesting. Thanks!

rbernie
August 5, 2010, 03:46 PM
FYI - THR member Krocus created a bunch of threads here in the last couple of years about his experiences with a 7.62x39 AR15; here's a link to his deer-hunting one:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=405210

And here's the firing pin mod:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=405478

cyclopsshooter
August 7, 2010, 05:55 PM
Great info from rbernie- I run an Olympic upper on an Armalite lower- Had great luck with C-Products 10 round mags after a little feed lip adjustment- the 30 round mag I have chokes if more than 15 rounds are put in it.

do yourself a favor and get a stainless barrel so you can run the super cheap corrosive stuff :)

Maverick223
August 7, 2010, 07:03 PM
do yourself a favor and get a stainless barrel so you can run the super cheap corrosive stuffThat's not a bad idea, but you still need to clean it, especially the bolt and action (which is not made of SS).

:)

Purgatory
August 8, 2010, 02:18 AM
'Preciate all the info, guys. This thread MORE than answered all my queries. -And introduced me to info I didn't even know I didn't know. :D

You never stop learning, right?

Thanks again, Fellas.

frankge
August 8, 2010, 11:40 AM
the coating on the steel casing ammo does not melt and gum up the chamber. what happens is that the case does not expand like brass when fired so you have gas and crud start to accumulate by with each round fired. due to the tighter tolerances of the ar platform you will eventually have problems. aks dont have this issue because of the generous tolerances. there are threads where it shows pics of guys taking a torch to the case and it doesnt melt.

Maverick223
August 8, 2010, 01:40 PM
what happens is that the case does not expand like brass when fired so you have gas and crud start to accumulate by with each round fired.I don't believe expansion is the problem, that is quite a bit of pressure for mild steel to resist; instead I believe the problem with steel cased ammunition is that it doesn't contract to the same degree as brass, causing it to stick in the chamber.

:)

gun guy
August 8, 2010, 02:12 PM
the only real issue with the 7.62x39 till now has been the ammo, either cheap ball ammo or big dollar hunting tips. Once again, hornady has the answer, they recently imported berdan primed steel cases, loaded it with decent powder (comblock powders add charcoal to knock down muzzle flash, this is fine for an ak, but not a higher tolerance weapon) and topped it off with a 123gr v-max, they claim a 75fps increase, all this in a box of 50 for a decent price. look for it at your gunstore

alpal
August 17, 2010, 02:36 PM
I want to build a 7.62 AR15, but after reading this thread I am concerned about the problems mentioned. Are there any modifications that can be done to shoot cheap Russian ammo?

I'm looking at getting the del-ton 7.62 upper (http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Barrel_p/cv1033.htm) (http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Barrel_p/cv1033.htm) Any reviews about this product and del-ton in general would be helpful.

Evil Monkey
August 17, 2010, 04:36 PM
If it ain't the screwed up feed ramps, then it's the mags, and if it ain't the mags then it's the bolt integrity.

I want a 7.62 soviet AR15, but based on the information gathered in the past months, it seems like I would be buying a very expensive head ache.

AK's and VZ's are the only real easy options.

......or just stick with 5.56mm for your AR needs.

Maverick223
August 18, 2010, 01:09 PM
AK's and VZ's are the only real easy options.I'll put in a plug for my VZ.58, it has been flawless and surprisingly accurate. I am not a bit disappointed.

:)

rbernie
August 18, 2010, 02:15 PM
I want a 7.62 soviet AR15, but based on the information gathered in the past months, it seems like I would be buying a very expensive head ache.

AK's and VZ's are the only real easy options.

......or just stick with 5.56mm for your AR needs.I think that is an utterly unfounded conclusion, given what has been posted here. I have put thousands of 7.62x39 rounds through various AR15 platforms for the better part of a decade now, and have experienced nothing remotely resembling 'an expensive headache'.

My primary 7.62x39 carbine does not have M4 cuts and has never given me feed issues. My primary 7.62x39 AR15 has never given me bolt issues, and it's well over 3K rounds through it by now. I have posed here many times over the last 5-6 years how my MGW low-cap mags worked well, and posted recently how my new-production CProducts 'normal cap' magazines have worked flawlessly.

It is possible that my homebuilt ARs represent the absolute pinnacle of parts and build quality, but I actually rather doubt it. I suspect that my 7.62x39 ARs represent average ARs, and that my experiences with them represent what most folk would get.

leapfrog
August 19, 2010, 12:15 PM
I have a Colt 7.62x39 that I bought just after Willie ban, didn't shoot it much because of the mag problem, it came with a 10 round colt mag.
When you would seat the mag too hard it threw all the bullets into the receiver.
Tried a USA mag and it was just as bad.
Bought two plastic MWG's that worked OK but only 10 rounds so spent a lot of time reloading, so just put it away.
When I read here about the c products 30 rounders I bought two from midway and took them to the range today, using 122g ruskies.
Worked great, rounds 58,59 and 60 did not feed, but the bolt carrier had run completely dry so that would explain why.
So I would have to say c products has cured the problem, at least for me.

TheRoo
October 17, 2010, 05:20 PM
I am Also getting ready to purchase a 7.62x39 upper for my AR but I am noticing that we are only looking at "Hunting" and "Coolness" factor as the only reasons for owning one. Yes the 6.8 is probably a nicer hunting round and already has a reliable magazine. One aspect to look at is the "Crap Hitting The Fan" aspect. I want an AR that can shoot 7.62x39 because it is one of the few rounds that has a lot of surplus available. If something happens and you need ammo then the easiest to find would be .45ACP, 9mm, 5.56, 7.62Nato and 7.62x39. having both a 7.62x39 and 5.56 makes your rifle a lot more versitile. I also have an AK and plan on it as a nice backup gun due to its extreme reliability if not accurate.

plateshooter
October 17, 2010, 06:21 PM
I have fired quite a few cases of cheap steel case ammo through my 762X39 AR. My upper was built by Model 1 sales. It is accurate, and with selected USA Mag frankenmags, it provided much enjoyment when my life revolved around the plateshoots we had here.

The only problem I had, as well as the other shooters had at the time was broken bolts. Every shooter that I knew of that shot plates with a X39 AR at our local shoots eventually broke a bolt. Maybe it was running 3 mags at a time with cheap steel case ammo, or shooting them until the barrel smoked in every relay, and doing this all day. I don't know. I would guess it averaged 4 to 6K rounds between bolts.

It has been several years since I have shot my X39 AR, when one could buy Golden Tiger or Wolf or Barnaul ammo for $80.00 per K. Maybe the bolts are better now. We just carried a spare bolt assembly in those days, and returned to the line in just a few minutes. Small price to pay for the fun we had.

My X39 upper has a lot of miles on it, but I still like it.

yotesmoker
October 18, 2010, 07:36 AM
I have a colt in x39 and only shoot cheap steel cased ammo.Been doing it for the last two years without any problems.Its my range plinker and coyote rifle.I have several colt mags and a few franken mags,all work fine.My only problem is colt related only,the trigger sucks.I need a large pin trigger and can't find any mfg that makes one.Know any smiths that can rework the colt original trigger??????

plateshooter
October 18, 2010, 04:20 PM
Hey yotesmoker. Here is a link. Page two has several large pin trigger upgrades. Hope one of these will work out for you.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=8&categoryId=11622&categoryString=649***20766***8807***11619***

rbernie
November 1, 2010, 09:59 AM
Well, I finally had an issue with my C Products 7.62x39 30rd magazines. Seems that several of them started having the follower hang up if I loaded them with more than 10-15 rounds of steel-cased ammo. Didn't have the issue with brass cased ammo, but could replicate it with steel-cased ammo pretty regularly.

Cleaning the magazines out didn't help, but replacing the magazine springs with Wolff AK47 magazine springs seems to have cured the problem.

Just wanted to post an update.

Tirod
November 1, 2010, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the update. It did seem that the new mags had promise.

Two considerations in acquiring a 7.62x39 not yet discussed: availability of ammo is probably better based on the fact you already had it. If the Obamascare on guns showed one thing, most military calibers were sold out in a few weeks. Have we all forgotten the whining that went on for months and months about cost and availability? And yet 12ga, .30-30, and .30-06 were on the Mart shelf everyday. Moot point, if a zombie war is declared, I don't delude myself into thinking there will be ANY ammo. I give it 24 hours. Better to have a .30-30. Millions of boxes of that are in the retail system, and many more of them owned by hunters than AR's. The numbers are there, it's a bigger resource.

The second thing is the intro of the .300 BLK, which is actually a marketing takeover by Remington of the Whisper. It's the same thing Les Baer is doing with the .264LBC - otherwise known as the 6.5 Grendel.

Marketing aside, it's a .30 caliber bullet in a 5.56 case. The advantages are using a milspec bolt, not one opened up to the functional limit as the AK requires. Issue mags can be used, too. The cartridge case taper is 5.56, I've yet to read where Pmags couldn't be used.

Two specific loads are being marketed, subsonic for PDW/suppressed use, and normal supersonic. The latter are supposed to have similar ballistics to the 7.62x39/.30-30 class, which means it's entirely adequate for hunting and combat - under 400m.

This is where a good sense of what you need the round to do comes up. It's not the heat like .300 Win Mag., but the creators aren't pushing that anyway. It's being backed by Remington which promises plenty of ammo, and inexpensive to boot. I don't think it will get down to 25c a round, but with most of the components already in production, it could be cheap enough. NO non-military caliber other than .22 will ever be as cheap as taxpayer supported military surplus and reject ammo. Ever. So the .300 BLK isn't the round to have just to pop fireworks. Keep your AK's and 5.56 uppers for that.

The .300 BLK seems to solve a lot of issues right at the mag well level before you even pull the trigger. If .30 cal bullets in a AR is the goal, it would be a better proposition than shoehorning the tapered bullets and curved mag into the straight mag well of a AR. Some things seem to be a good idea, but this still doesn't work out any better than a Cummins in a CJ5. The AK cartridge case is simply the wrong shape for the action. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be.

To me, if there is a zombie that needed to die, it's the AK ammo in an AR fad.

Maverick223
November 1, 2010, 01:47 PM
Tirod, while I am excited to hear about the introduction of a non-proprietary 6.5Grendel, I don't believe the .300 BLK will afford the kind of performance advertised. I think it will prove to be far closer to the .30Carbine than the .30-30Win. or 7.62x39mm. There simply isn't enough case capacity to get you there IMO. That is not, however, to suggest that it is a bad cartridge...I always like the .30Carbine.

:)

shooterjon
November 12, 2010, 02:31 AM
I have a del-ton 7.62 x39 upper on a Bushy lower. Love the round . My issue also seems to be a mag problem. Have two 10 rounders from C-products that will not feed. I have to manually pull the bolt back for each round. I have even short loaded the mags with still the same issue. And the when loaded the mags are almost impossible to unload by hand. They are just so tight in the mag. I am so frustrated. Have tried a C- product 30 rounder short loaded to 26 and it worked fine till about shot 10-15 then the same issue, but aleast I know my rifle is working. So Im deducing it is a mag issue. At this point I am trying to get ahold of C-products . One email and one phone message with no luck. Thanks for letting me vent.

yotesmoker
November 12, 2010, 07:28 AM
How come I don't hear about broken fireing pins in the AR 7.62"s like I do in the mini-30?Have thousands thru my colt my colt 7.62 with no problems.Thats the only problem thats keeping me away from the mini.

rbernie
November 12, 2010, 07:49 AM
My issue also seems to be a mag problem. Have two 10 rounders from C-products that will not feed.Read post #38. :)

As best I can tell, C Products is using the same springs in all mags of a certain body length, regardless of chambering. The heavy-for-size 7.62x39 rounds sometimes take issue with this. The solution is to replace the spring with one from an AK magazine (30rd AK mag spring in the 30rd C Products mag, 10rd AK mag spring in the 10rd C Products mag).

frankge
November 12, 2010, 11:43 AM
there's a unique fix on youtube - search there for cproducts magaine hammer tuning. No kidding

Tirod
November 12, 2010, 12:10 PM
The promoters of the .300 BLK are promising and showing ballistic tables with performance the same as the 7.62 x 39. AK ammo isn't highly loaded tactical stuff, it won't be that hard to push the performance with the right powder and very careful attention to leade and twist. If anything, the .300 Whisper crowd answered all the comparative questions years ago.

The advantage will be using the issue bolt and magazines. The disadvantage will be no military surplus, so regardless of how "inexpensive" is defined, I don't see less than $15 a box.

The two cheapest calibers out there, aside from .22, are 5.56 or 7.62x39. If blasting a lot of ammo for a low price is important, that the choice, no other viable option exists. If you want to shoot from the gun with the better set of operating controls, get an AR, if hunting and casual range use, get the AK. Getting one with the other caliber doesn't work because the designers made the mag wells incompatible. I say that having shot a Valmet in .223, nobody seems to think it was a good idea, I see no attempts to barrel an AK in 5.56. Hey, it's a cheap caliber, right, it should be a going deal! No, not so much. It's because nobody wants a varmint round in the AK. I don't see much talk about the 5.45 AK-74 on the boards, why is that?

More people want a big bullet in a small gun, apparently that seems to get their interest more. If they would make an AR lower that took the AK mag, the whole project would fly. Use a superbolt and go with it. Even Colt has built AR's to take the 7.62x39, they sold very few. It's all about the straight mag well, and if you CUT IT OFF, it might work.

As it is, you have a ten shot semi auto with .30-30 ballistics, and a Win 94 would be as easy to use.

Maverick223
November 12, 2010, 12:55 PM
Getting one with the other caliber doesn't work because the designers made the mag wells incompatible. I say that having shot a Valmet in .223, nobody seems to think it was a good idea, I see no attempts to barrel an AK in 5.56. Hey, it's a cheap caliber, right, it should be a going deal! No, not so much.The .223Rem./5.56NATO works fine in the AK platform, and is relatively popular (probably the second most popular Saiga). Contrary to popular belief the .223s case taper (or lack thereof) causes no feeding or extraction issues. Also the only issue with the AR is the magazine, and by some accounts this problem has been rectified.

I don't see much talk about the 5.45 AK-74 on the boards, why is that?There are a lot of folks that don't realize that it is available (or exists), but most that do also recognize the merits (lesser ammunition cost, typically greater accuracy, faster follow-up shots, et cetera) of the 5.45x39.5mm.

:)

frankge
November 23, 2010, 03:37 PM
Spike's!

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