HK G36C... DROOOOOOOL!!! (movies)


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Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 12:34 AM
Yep, I finally got to put one through the paces. I'd rather have shot the longer version, but you take what you can get! Here's a snapshot of the shooting session. This is the largest flash I could get out of the thing. Most ammo was completely devoid of flash! That flash suppressor really did the trick. It was about 5 above today. Toes got cold after a few hours of burning up ammo but boy was it fun. Videos will be forthcoming. I have to figure out how to get them hosted.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=649819

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Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 12:42 AM
Awwwwww, crap. I guess I need somebody with some web space to host these for me. Any takers? In the meantime, I'll email the videos to anybody who PM's me with their email address.

Teknik
December 8, 2003, 12:49 AM
I'd love to have that gun, but it's a little out of my price range:(

Wildalaska
December 8, 2003, 01:14 AM
Hmm interesting how the camera shows the flash, I couldnt see it at all and I was shootin right next to ya..

The best was watching the snow trickle off the roof every time the 10 inch barrelled FAL went off...


WilditwassunnyouthteractuallyAlaska

natedog
December 8, 2003, 01:21 AM
How'd you get your mits on a post-dealer sample?

Wildalaska
December 8, 2003, 01:25 AM
Belongs to the local HK LE dealer, he has them all

WildcoltleAlaska

Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 01:28 AM
Wild:

I swapped out the Wolf ammo that I was burning up for some reloads that were neck-resized for a TC Contender barrel I didn't have anymore. Only gun that would shoot this ammo was an HK-93 that I no longer. HK didn't let me down, their G36 ate it and came back for more! The reloads must have had a different powder mix.

It took me about ten minutes of video capture drills to find the one frame that had flash in it. The videos are cool, anybody want to host them for me?

Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 01:33 AM
It was sunny and nice out. The pictures are frame captures from my Sony Handycam. I didn't have it set on backlight, or the pictures would have been much better. I'll have it down next shoot... hope the weather is nicer.

I particularly liked the Kitty Kat... She purred really nice! :evil:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=649889

Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 01:47 AM
Okay, some more. Yes, this registered SBR was blowing the snow off the top of the canopy. The concussion from this gun was nearly unbearable. There was a really effective muzzle brake on the gun. In DSA’s defense, the shooter felt little of the direct blast, although it did reflect off the ceiling. Standing next to the gun was an EXPERIENCE though.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=649906

Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 02:05 AM
Here's a nicer shot.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=649920

BusMaster007
December 8, 2003, 06:10 AM
"Serious Fun".
Not an oxymoron!

Thanks for sharing those photos, Badger Arms.

Schuey2002
December 8, 2003, 02:10 PM
I hate you! :fire:

:evil: :neener: :evil:

spacemanspiff
December 8, 2003, 02:20 PM
you guys are so cruel. having a machine gun shoot and not inviting me along! hurmph! i'm gonna pout for a while now. :fire:

Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 03:21 PM
Does anybody want to host the videos?

Wildalaska
December 8, 2003, 04:54 PM
Badge call me....

WildmoviesAlaska

Marko Kloos
December 8, 2003, 05:05 PM
Cute...a tactical Super Soaker.

Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 05:22 PM
My overall impression of the G36 was HIGHLY favorable. The 'plastic' parts are very well molded and SOLID. In fact, the gun feels more solid than the M-16... mostly because there is no upper/lower wobble. The cheek weld is solid and natural. The gun seems to point better than the M16. The parts were all very well finished and fitted. There was no play in any of the parts. Reaching in with a gloved hand to operate the charging handle was no problem. You can use the charging handle as a forward assist if necessary. Only complaint in that area is that there is no bolt release. I had to reach into the magazine well with my index finger to operate the hold-open and then swing the operating handle to the side and retract it to release the bolt.

As for what I've heard others say about the mag release position, I found that it was just as easy to slip your index finger under the trigger guard to operate the release as it was to push the button on the M-16. In fact, because it's ambidexterous, I think the paddle release is SUPERIOR. The trigger guard was luxuriously spacious. My gloved hands had ABSOLUTELY no problem with getting into the trigger guard. The magazines were really easy to load. They are essentially flat with a shelf on the top. This makes it very simple to roll the rounds right into the mag. My only complaint was that there was only one mag available. I would have loved to clip two together and done a combat reload drill.

The stock latching to the ejection port buffer was very solid and didn't appear to have any wear troubles. The stock was difficult to unlatch and deploy with my gloved hand. Gloves kept getting stuck in the mechanism! Only other complaint was the weather. It didn't cause the gun any trouble. Gun appeared to have been cleaned with some teflon-based cleaner that was gumming up on the outside of the bolt carrier as teflon will do in cold weather however this didn't effect function a bit.

Wildalaska
December 8, 2003, 05:30 PM
We'll have some movies later this week....

Glock Glockler
December 8, 2003, 05:49 PM
Badger, by any chance did you get that HK from the same guy who Wild got the Sig 550 from?

Wildalaska
December 8, 2003, 06:00 PM
Hi its the same guy, he is FN, SIG and HK LE distributor, we are Colt so we get along famously

WildkumbayaAlaska

Glock Glockler
December 8, 2003, 06:31 PM
When you guys do take the 550 for a spin, please post a range report as well. Thanks.

Also, do feel free to do a torture test comparison between all the rifles:D

rock jock
December 8, 2003, 06:45 PM
Awesome. Who do I have to kill to get one?

Wildalaska
December 8, 2003, 07:01 PM
Also, do feel free to do a torture test comparison between all the rifles

As soon as I get the Colt Commando that has been on order since July :banghead:

WildblastemAlaska

Nightcrawler
December 8, 2003, 08:49 PM
Shorty FAL. NOW you're talking. Spare me the 5.56mm popguns, give me the BIG DOG! :D

Badger Arms
December 8, 2003, 08:55 PM
We'll get a video of the SBR up as well. Not as fun as the full-autos though.

Nightcrawler
December 8, 2003, 09:04 PM
Full auto...meh. The SAW is fun to shoot; it'd be fun to shoot up a car with, I think.

I just like the FAL. Given the choice between a semiautomatic FAL or a select-fire 5.56mm rifle, I'd take the FAL hands down every time. (Especially in shorty format...:D )

Wildalaska
December 8, 2003, 09:39 PM
Well after seeing that FAL SBR go off, I told our FAL guy (who builds em as nice as DSA and $300 cheaper)

"11 inch FAL Full auto"

Look for it after the 1st of the year....totally useless!:)

WildboomboomAlaska

cool45auto
December 8, 2003, 09:55 PM
You guys suck!:neener:

artherd
December 9, 2003, 05:24 AM
Awesome. I have a 18" barrel .30-06 semi-auto, and a friend of mine has a ~17" barrel 7.62x54R. Both make bodatious noise, and good fireworks. Though I doubt like a 10" FAL!

I can keep 3 shot bursts in about a 2foot circle at 100yds with the .30-06 so far, (thanks in no small part to an outstanding brake/compensator/hider) though honestly it's a long-range gun.

Wish I could see the G36 videos!

Looks like huge fun, how long is the AR's barrel?

Kobun
December 9, 2003, 09:19 AM
Anyone want a side by side comparison? :)

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=652012 http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=649920

Badger Arms
December 9, 2003, 12:08 PM
Videos are coming. We should have them up later this week. I'll post another thread.

Barrel length on the Kitty Kat is 7 inches.

I'd also like to handle the Sig. There aren't that many differences in the concept of the two guns as is clear in the pictures. Apart from the plastic. Internally, the bolt of the SIG rides on the receiver whereas the G36 is loosely fit and rides on the spring guide rod. The magazines are virtually identical. "Getting Small" is not one of the stronger points of the M-16 series due to its buffer tube. A few minor Sig 552 differences:

Slightly heavier by about half a pound.
Non-Ambidexterous charging handle
Lacks the In-Line Stock.
Okay, that's a pretty weak list... Lemme have a Sig TOO!

Schuey2002
December 9, 2003, 01:41 PM
Internally, the bolt of the SIG rides on the receiver whereas the G36 is loosely fit and rides on the spring guide rod.
The bolt carrier doesn't "ride on the spring guide rod". It rides on two stainless steel rails (on on each side of the bolt carrier) that are molded into the "guideways" of the receiver..;)

Wildalaska
December 9, 2003, 02:14 PM
Getting Small" is not one of the stronger points of the M-16 series due to its buffer tube.

Ha! Wait till the Commando gets here! Colt versus SIG! May the best shorty 223 win...

WildcoltcoltAlaska

Badger Arms
December 9, 2003, 02:43 PM
The bolt carrier doesn't "ride on the spring guide rod". It rides on two stainless steel rails (on on each side of the bolt carrier) that are molded into the "guideways" of the receiver..Does too!:neener:

Seriously, the patented (Armalite patent at that) G36 bolt system guides the bolt carrier on the guide rod. Unlike the AK, this rod is rigidly held at the front and rear of the receiver. The rod controls the pitch and yaw of the bolt carrier assembly with the roll being controlled by two flat plates (not rails or guideways) molded into the side of the receiver. This makes the system light, simple, and resistant to fouling, sand, etc. The sides of a G36 bolt are flat and smooth as you can see in the picture below. Well, if Teflon-based cleaners hadn't been used it would have been flat and smooth! :rolleyes:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=652575

The Sig, although I've never closely examined one, utilizes the AK rail style of bolt carrier control. While I like the G36 system for its simplicity, there is nothing really wrong with the AK bolt system. It is more expensive to make, though, and being stamped sheet metal, can gall and wear. I can't imagine that if you shot 1 Million rounds through the G36 that the guide plates or bolt carrier (where it contacts the plates) would EVER wear.

Grampa
December 9, 2003, 03:19 PM
Dang!

I gotta get up there to visit with you guys! What shops should I visit on my next trip?

7.62FullMetalJacket
December 9, 2003, 04:33 PM
That's it. I am moving to Alaska. I want to fun too.

Schuey2002
December 9, 2003, 04:42 PM
The sides of a G36 bolt are flat and smooth as you can see in the picture below.
Yeah, I can see that they are "flat and smooth", but as you will notice in that photo of yours, those grooves running down both sides of the bolt carrier ride (loosely) on corresponding "molded polymer" rails within the receiver. How do I know this? I'm playing with my SL8 (which has the same basic G36 innards) and the carrier is clearly riding loosely (very, very loosely at that) on these rails. So, I'm at least partially right. ;)

When I said, "It rides on two stainless steel rails", I should have said, "It rides [loosely] against two stainless steel rails".. :o

two flat plates (not rails or guideways)
My SL8-1 manual clearly says "The bolt assembly with the rotary bolt head is guided into the receiver by stainless steel rails molded into the polymer receiver" [page 12, second paragraph from the bottom], and that "Inside the receiver are guideways for the bolt carrier.." [page 11, second line from the top].. :neener:
this rod is rigidly held at the front and rear of the receiver.
Yeah, I'll grant you that the recoil spring assembly is held firmly at the rear of the receiver. But, it is clearly not attached to anything at forward end of the recoil rod, including the front of the receiver, the bolt carrier, or anything else for that matter. When the bolt is pulled all the way to the rear, the recoil rod is just free flotating out in space. I can easily fit a 2.5 MM allen wrench in the gap between the front of the guide rod and the forward end of the receiver.. :)

Badger Arms
December 9, 2003, 05:44 PM
Alas, I have no SL8 in front of me to make that determination. I'll defer to your wisdon on the matter of the rigid attachment at the front. However, I will say that if you look into your SL8 and tell me if it's a flat surface or if it's a concave or convex surface which the bolt carrier rides on, I would like you to state so. I didn't look down the rear of the receiver, however since the bolt carrier is flat, whatever surface it interferes with MUST be flat. I don't care what the translation in the manual states! :p

As for the grooves in the bolt carrier up towards the top... That's ABOVE the recoil spring. The purpose of those grooves is to prevent foreign matter from entering the receiver from the top as would be very easy in their absense. The minor wearing at the front of this groove corresponds to (now eating tentative crow) the lack of a rigid mounting on the front of the bolt guide rod? At any rate, the bolt carrier does NOT ride on these grooves.

While I can't fault the Sig-552 from a design point of view, I can fault the minimal clearance and tight confines of the AR-15 receiver in this respect. Guns with more clearance make more sense. As I'm much more likely to own the G36 than I am the Sig 55x series, I'm putting my hope into the former gun.

Schuey2002
December 9, 2003, 06:33 PM
I would like you to state so.
Yeah, it's flat, there I said it. :)

As for the grooves in the bolt carrier up towards the top... That's ABOVE the recoil spring. The purpose of those grooves is to prevent foreign matter from entering the receiver from the top as would be very easy in their absense.
Yes, they prevent gunk from entering the receiver of the gun. But, that "foreign matter" could also enter the large square hole in the top of the receiver when the bolt carrier reciprocates rearward anyways.
At any rate, the bolt carrier does NOT ride on these grooves.
I beg to differ.. As an experiment, I took some blue powdered chalk and placed it on these two rails. I then slide the carrier back and forth (with the gun being perfectly level), and lo and behold, after removing the bolt carrier from the gun, there are blue streaks on top of those grooves on the carrier.

Now I've got to go clean this stuff off.. ;)

Badger Arms
December 9, 2003, 07:03 PM
The real test would be if you removed the plastic at that point, the gun would still function. It might touch that area, but it isn't a bearing surface. Here, take a hacksaw and cut the entire top of the receiver away and fire the gun. If it doesn't work, I'll admit I'm wrong! :uhoh:

You're KILLING me! :)

Wildalaska
December 9, 2003, 08:21 PM
OK I put the movies up, you can access them (I hope) by clicking here (http://www.wildwestguns.com/Bushwacker/Machine_Gun_Fun/body_machine_gun_fun.html)

WildhtmlAlaska

7.62FullMetalJacket
December 9, 2003, 09:48 PM
Thanks guys. Porn movies:D

larryw
December 9, 2003, 09:58 PM
<ahem> Where are your eyes? </ahem>

very cool stuff!

mrming
December 9, 2003, 11:20 PM
Come on larry, Its Gun Porn! You can see it in any theater and most tv channels... its not immoral.. honest!

Badger Arms
December 10, 2003, 01:02 AM
Where are your eyes?Eye protection? You might ask that question but I won't give you a good answer. Suffice it to say, when it's that darned cold, all of my eye protection fogs up. They were sitting on a shelf by my gun cabinet.:(

Glock Glockler
December 11, 2003, 08:40 AM
Badger,

From you experience with the Sig and with the HK, which one do you think would wni in an Aberdeen torture test?

Badger Arms
December 11, 2003, 12:01 PM
No experience with the Sig. Knowing some of what they do to weapons, I think that both weapons would perform well.

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