What is the best method to sight in your rifle


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stinger 327
July 31, 2010, 04:36 AM
50 yards then to 100 yards?
For the following rifles:
Mini-14 with scope
Ak-47 with open sights
10/22 with Eagle Zephyer peep sight.
:confused:

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scythefwd
July 31, 2010, 05:32 AM
stinger - get it zeroed, or very close to it at 25y. Then move back to 100 for everything but the .22lr.. I'd only move back to 50, then 100.

Remember, shoot 3 shots and then find the center of the group. Move the center of the group, not single shots. It takes more ammo, but will generally give better results.

caribou
July 31, 2010, 05:53 AM
I get alotta ammo and just start shooting things..........out on the tundra, rocks, snow, floating ice, chunks of ice on snow, maby floating peices of wood at various ranges, adjusting the sights as I need.
After 200 rounds of that and Im ready to trust the rifle :D

"Learn" that rifle real good

stinger 327
July 31, 2010, 06:19 AM
I get alotta ammo and just start shooting things..........out on the tundra, rocks, snow, floating ice, chunks of ice on snow, maby floating peices of wood at various ranges, adjusting the sights as I need.
After 200 rounds of that and Im ready to trust the rifle :D

"Learn" that rifle real good
I did this but eventually the ammo will run out.

bensdad
July 31, 2010, 06:31 AM
Shoot a group. Three is fine. Maintain your POA - don't chase holes. Next, anchor the rifle at POA, then walk the crosshairs to the center of the group (whille the rifle remains completely stationary). POA should match POI at your chosen distance. The line-of-sight is a strait line. The bullet travels in an arch. The arch passes through the line twice. Most folks mean the second pass when they refer to the distance their rifle is zeroed at.

Sav .250
July 31, 2010, 07:47 AM
25 yds to start then finish at 100 yds. Not all will agree but that`s what makes
green apples.

Abel
July 31, 2010, 08:29 AM
Spray & pray.

oldfool
July 31, 2010, 08:54 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^
yup ;)

jsimmons
July 31, 2010, 09:09 AM
Get an appropriate bore sighting laser. There are several available. I'd get one that can be chambered like a live round because it'll go straight down your barrel.

Once chamber, you can sight your rifle in at the preferred distance without firing a single shot, and regardless of how much wind there is. The way I got it figured is you'd probably spend more money on ammo than a bore-sighter, so in the long run you win.

JDGray
July 31, 2010, 09:43 AM
Bore sight at 100(by eye) then shoot it:) I flip a fullsize silhouette backwards, with a 3/4"dot sticker in the center.

benEzra
July 31, 2010, 09:51 AM
If you're mounting a new optic or otherwise starting from scratch, start close enough that the shots are definitely going to be on the paper. If you're not on the paper at 25 yards, move to 10, whatever. Once you're on paper, aim at a clearly defined aiming point in the center of the target and fire a 3-shot group. Adjust the sights or optic so that the next 3-shot group is at point of aim. Verify that it's sighted in at that range, then move back.

As to what distance you want to do final zero at, that depends on your rifle, cartridge, sight height, etc. A lot of people zero .22's at 50 yards; .223's are often zeroed at 200; etc.

crossrhodes
July 31, 2010, 09:59 AM
I'v used used two methods for the last 30 years. The 25 yard zero, and the old look down the bore method. For the bore method I use a 1inch orange pastey at 100 yards and match the view of the bore and the scope cross hairs.

parker51
July 31, 2010, 01:00 PM
I don't think you can use the bore sighting method with a Mini 14 but it is good for sighting in bolt action rifles. I used one of the laser tools yesterday to sight in a Mini 14 and the only problem I had was I couldn't see the laser at 50 yds. I ended up getting the largest target they sold at our range and after aligning the scope's crosshairs with the laser out as far as I could see it, I finally got the gun on paper. I loaded 4 rounds, I shot 2 at the very bottom of the target and was going to shoot 2 at the very top but found the 2 at the bottom were about 2 feet high at 50 yds. The laser I was using was one that you stick in the end of the barrel. Not as accurate as I had hoped but without it I have no idea where these rounds would have been hitting. If anyone has an easier way to sight in a Mini 14 please let us know.

Robert Wilson
July 31, 2010, 01:04 PM
Bensdad gave the most efficient method.

Old Time Hunter
July 31, 2010, 01:14 PM
At the rifle range would probably be the preferred method.

Pretty much the rule of thumb for most modern cartridges if you zero at 25 yards, you'll be on paper at a hundred.

MinnMooney
July 31, 2010, 01:29 PM
Ammo saver method : 25 yds., shoot one shot, crank turrets correct amount (Remember : clicks only adj 1/4 as much @ 25 yds as @ 100 yds so... 2" low @ 25 yds = 16 clicks on a 1 click = 1/4" scope). 2nd shot to verify. Fine tune. Move to 100 yds and verify/fine tune. Usually it takes only 4-5 shots to get very close. NOW is the time to do your 3 or 5-shot groups to verify and fine tune your desired "Zero".

aka108
July 31, 2010, 01:47 PM
I'll take my first shot at 50 yds. If it is on paper then I can "walk" it to the bull. If the shot is not on paper i'll go to 15 yds and walk it to bull and then go back to 50 yds and then to 100 if centerfire.

JDGray
July 31, 2010, 02:10 PM
Should have read the "rifles needed to zero" a little better:o Start close, like some of the better readers have suggested:)

jsimmons
July 31, 2010, 03:59 PM
I don't think you can use the bore sighting method with a Mini 14 but it is good for sighting in bolt action rifles. I used one of the laser tools yesterday to sight in a Mini 14 and the only problem I had was I couldn't see the laser at 50 yds. I ended up getting the largest target they sold at our range and after aligning the scope's crosshairs with the laser out as far as I could see it, I finally got the gun on paper. I loaded 4 rounds, I shot 2 at the very bottom of the target and was going to shoot 2 at the very top but found the 2 at the bottom were about 2 feet high at 50 yds. The laser I was using was one that you stick in the end of the barrel. Not as accurate as I had hoped but without it I have no idea where these rounds would have been hitting. If anyone has an easier way to sight in a Mini 14 please let us know.
If you can bore-sight a AR15, I think you can bore-sight a Mini.

stinger 327
August 1, 2010, 04:11 AM
If you're mounting a new optic or otherwise starting from scratch, start close enough that the shots are definitely going to be on the paper. If you're not on the paper at 25 yards, move to 10, whatever. Once you're on paper, aim at a clearly defined aiming point in the center of the target and fire a 3-shot group. Adjust the sights or optic so that the next 3-shot group is at point of aim. Verify that it's sighted in at that range, then move back.

As to what distance you want to do final zero at, that depends on your rifle, cartridge, sight height, etc. A lot of people zero .22's at 50 yards; .223's are often zeroed at 200; etc.
On 10/22 50 yards is about Max of what I can see of the 3 inch target using peep sight that came on Mini-14.
Got a scope so now I can go for 100 yards and see the target.

dubbleA
August 1, 2010, 04:53 AM
Buy you a $30-40 laser bore sighter that fits into your bore. Take and adjust your reticle of the scope or open sight to intersect the laser dot at 20-30 yards(farther if in low light).With a steady rest/hold, fire one shot at the center bullseye,this should get you on a 18 inch paper target at 100 yds. Now again place your rifle in a rest of some sort, sand bags or a box with a "v" cut into each end will do. Aim the rifle back at the center bullseye you previously shot at and without moving the gun adjust the reticle to the bullet hole from the first shot. Your rifle should be very close to shooting right on but may require fine tuning. It shouldnt take you over 5 shots total from start to finish. All this relies on your shooting and adjusting abilities. With open or peep sights you might want to try at 50 yards.

stinger 327
August 1, 2010, 06:00 AM
Buy you a $30-40 laser bore sighter that fits into your bore. Take and adjust your reticle of the scope or open sight to intersect the laser dot at 20-30 yards(farther if in low light).With a steady rest/hold, fire one shot at the center bullseye,this should get you on a 18 inch paper target at 100 yds. Now again place your rifle in a rest of some sort, sand bags or a box with a "v" cut into each end will do. Aim the rifle back at the center bullseye you previously shot at and without moving the gun adjust the reticle to the bullet hole from the first shot. Your rifle should be very close to shooting right on but may require fine tuning. It shouldnt take you over 5 shots total from start to finish. All this relies on your shooting and adjusting abilities. With open or peep sights you might want to try at 50 yards.
Can you bore sight iron sights?

steven58
August 1, 2010, 06:47 AM
Before you even get to the range: make sure that your scope is properly mounted, all screws tight and blue locktited. Make sure your scope is square to the rifle or you will be very frustrated as you change distances

While you can easily bore sight an AR by laying the upper receiver sans bolt carrier group in a rest, I don't know if you can do this with a mini 14

375shooter
August 1, 2010, 11:12 AM
Yes, you can boresight open sights.

Grey Morel
August 1, 2010, 11:49 AM
Method i use (no sled)

1) Use one of the MANY free online ballistics programs to compute the 25 yard impact of your gun when zeroed for 100 (or whatever)

2) Use an optical or lazer bore sitghter to adjust your scope/irons to the computed point of impact

3) Shoot a group @ 25 yards (you will already be on top of it, or within a fraction of an inch) and make any adjustments.

4) Shoot a group @ 100 yards and make any fraction adjustments

OR, if your rifle is scoped and you have a mechanical rest:

1) Lock your gun is a lead-sled, fire one shot.

2) Adjust your cross-hairs till over the bullet hole

3) done

:D

wally
August 1, 2010, 12:20 PM
Laser bore sighter generally gets me on the paper at 50 yards. That's were I zero the center of a ten shot group and then POA generally yields POI +2" -4" from 0 to 250-300 yards. Works great for me in the pasture where I generally shoot at steel plates, 2-liter plastic bottles and 1-gal milk jugs -- never know the "exact" target range anyways.

I'm not much for futzing with adjustments -- scopes or irons.



OR, if your rifle is scoped and you have a mechanical rest:

1) Lock your gun is a lead-sled, fire one shot.

2) Adjust your cross-hairs till over the bullet hole

3) done



Ignoring the differences between theory and practice :) But with $1-$2 a round ammo everybody would sure like it to work this way!

Robert Wilson
August 1, 2010, 01:05 PM
Ignoring the differences between theory and practice But with $1-$2 a round ammo everybody would sure like it to work this way!

It's always worked for me, with just a bit of extra work.

I bore sight at a big 25 yard bull. Then I use the above technique - one shot, realign sights to bullet hole. Then I move back to 100 yards and do the same thing, but this time I align the sights to two inches above the hole. For practical purposes I am now sighted in and can begin group shooting or whatever else. Granted, I would not be comfortable going hunting with that "two shot sight-in", but I have never had to make any significant adjustments after the first two shots, either.

The best part about it is that it does not require any knowledge of the scope - "Is it 1/4" or 1/8" per turn?" - and doesn't require any arithmetic. Technically, you don't even have to have the scope installed the right way up. As long as you've gotten the crosshairs aligned with the hole, it'll work.

parker51
August 1, 2010, 01:34 PM
If you can bore-sight a AR15, I think you can bore-sight a Mini.

I must be confused. How do you look down the bore of a Mini? I have 2 (a 14 & a 30) and have no idea how you would look down the bore of these guns and through the scope at the same time.

Andrew Wyatt
August 1, 2010, 02:06 PM
I shoot a group from a rest at 25 yards on a target with a grid. (i prefer quarter inch grid squares). i figure out where the POI is in relation to POA, and adjust the sights accordingly.

then, if i can't get the target out to the range i want to zero for (which is 250 yards for .308 class calibers and .223) i look at a ballistics program and figure out how high the POI needs to be at 100 and zero it at 100 for 250. this usually ends up being between 2 and 3 inches high.

for the AK, set the rear sight elevation on 100. zero at 100.

for the mini and the 10-22 follow directions as above.

ThePunisher'sArmory
August 1, 2010, 02:12 PM
scythefwd told you to do exactly what I do. just remember if you ever sight in an M4 the POI should be 2" lower than your POA at 25yrds :D

jsimmons
August 2, 2010, 06:45 PM
You don't look down the bore, you buy a laser bore sighter that conforms to the chambering of your rifle (.223 for you and me). They're inexpensive (I think mine was $25).

It puts up a 2-inch red dot at 100 yards. Lock your weapon in a sled, turn on and insert the laser, and align your sights to where the dot is. Wind won't affect it, and you can do it anywhere that gives you the desired distance, indoors or out.

stinger 327
August 3, 2010, 01:03 AM
You don't look down the bore, you buy a laser bore sighter that conforms to the chambering of your rifle (.223 for you and me). They're inexpensive (I think mine was $25).

It puts up a 2-inch red dot at 100 yards. Lock your weapon in a sled, turn on and insert the laser, and align your sights to where the dot is. Wind won't affect it, and you can do it anywhere that gives you the desired distance, indoors or out.
You mean iron sights can be bore sighted? I thought it was only optics that could be bore sighted.

Robert Wilson
August 3, 2010, 01:11 AM
Any sights can be adjusted to meet the laser dot on the target. The only problem is that the dot is extremely unlikely to be located at the same spot your bullets will go. The laser is good for getting on paper, but it is not, barring great good fortune, a substitute for actually sighting in your gun with your ammo.

stinger 327
August 3, 2010, 01:14 AM
Any sights can be adjusted to meet the laser dot on the target. The only problem is that the dot is extremely unlikely to be located at the same spot your bullets will go. The laser is good for getting on paper, but it is not, barring great good fortune, a substitute for actually sighting in your gun with your ammo.
Well then I have a Ruger 10/22 also to be bore sighted then this means pistols can also be bore sighted?

happygeek
August 3, 2010, 01:40 AM
All the rifles the OP mentioned are "assault weapons". Everyone knows those are only good for spray firing from the hip to kill large numbers of people in as short a time as possible. But they're also semi-autos and all the experts agree that semi-auto fire is more accurate than automatic fire, and thus more deadly. So what the OP has is a true WMD, it accurately sprays fire from the hip. :eek:

Joking aside, I've always just used Google to find the offset of POI from POA at 25 meters. So for my M1A for example, the Google Gods say that my POI should be 1.25 inches above POA at 25m for the iron sights for a 300m battle sight zero. Once I finally get a scope, I'll have to recalculate that offset based on how high above the barrel the scope is.

ARs in 5.56 are easy. You just use the Army zero target
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n167/discodench/The%20Army%20years/m4zero.jpg
put it up at 25 meters, aim at the center, and adjust your sights like it says on the target till you're hitting in the center.

I've used this same target for zeroing other rifles like my Sig 556 and M1A just because I'm used to it. It makes for good offsetting too; for the M1A put the top of your front sight on the bottom of the silhouette and adjust till your rounds are hitting the center.

stinger 327
August 3, 2010, 01:44 AM
All the rifles the OP mentioned are "assault weapons". Everyone knows those are only good for spray firing from the hip to kill large numbers of people in as short a time as possible. But they're also semi-autos and all the experts agree that semi-auto fire is more accurate than automatic fire, and thus more deadly. So what the OP has is a true WMD, it accurately sprays fire from the hip. :eek:

Joking aside, I've always just used Google to find the offset of POI from POA at 25 meters. So for my M1A for example, the Google Gods say that my POI should be 1.25 inches above POA at 25m for the iron sights for a 300m battle sight zero. Once I finally get a scope, I'll have to recalculate that offset based on how high above the barrel the scope is.

ARs in 5.56 are easy. You just use the Army zero target
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n167/discodench/The%20Army%20years/m4zero.jpg
put it up at 25 meters, aim at the center, and adjust your sights like it says on the target till you're hitting in the center.

I've used this same target for zeroing other rifles like my Sig 556 and M1A just because I'm used to it. It makes for good offsetting too; for the M1A put the top of your front sight on the bottom of the silhouette and adjust till your rounds are hitting the center.
this looks to be the trend of today.

WNTFW
August 3, 2010, 02:35 AM
I use a "Dinty Moore" beef stew can across a valley or canyon at a range of a mile or more. Trick is to have a dog as a spotter.

One thing a friend does is cover the entire target backer with white paper. All the holes are new and his. If you are off the target and onto the backer you still can spot your hit.
Next thing I do is use a target with grid lines and have the same type target next to you. It makes it easy to figure the amount of correction in inches as opposed to counting through a scope. Then convert to MOA. If your target has no grid, use a ruler on the same target next to you. I you are spotting for someone you can point out where the hit was. I have learned that not any body can spot.
Thirdly with equipment & ammo that has been proven, but needs to be rezeroed. If I make a shot and I am on call with POA then I correct from the POI. As long as I am sure my shot was executed properly I make the correction to the sights. Once the rifle is close then I start shooting groups & refine the zero. This is at 100yds or less when wind is not a factor.

*Bring proper allen wrench or screwdriver.
Once you get a scope zeroed move the turrets to zero out the dial. Then shoot a few to verify that zero corresponds to zero.

RhinoDefense
August 3, 2010, 03:12 AM
Don't know if there is a "best" but I sight all my rifles in for maximum point blank range.

Zak Smith
August 3, 2010, 03:21 AM
The arch passes through the line twice.
Not always
http://demigod.org/~zak/firearms/optics_1.png
Choices are zero, once, or twice. Zero means there is no distance where the POI=POA. Most rifles with external ballistics roughly similar to .223/.308/.30-06/.270, etc, will intersect the line of aim only once if the zero is around 100 yards; twice if the second zero is further.

crazyjennyblack
August 3, 2010, 03:25 AM
Laser has always worked for me. $40 bushnell laser boresighter, and I'm good to go. If you're only doing it once, perhaps a more traditional "ammo" method might be good, but remember that a laser can save on the ammo it takes you to get "on the paper"

I've used this with 2 Marlin 60's, a Savage MkII, and a Remington 700, as well as a friend's Remington 700 and Ar-15. With my Remington I got super lucky with a Leupold scope and it only took be about 10 rounds before I had things adjusted at 100 yards and I was shooting decent groups. I started at 25 and zeroed it. Moved it to 50 and zeroed it. Then moved it to 100 and finalized my settings.

Only problem with using laser is that you MUST do it in low light. Dawn or dusk is the only time a cheaper laser (like I got) will be visible out to 100 yards. YMMV, but for me laser has worked on 6 rifles and has worked every time. Also, laser is good for those cold wet early mornings at the range when you shiver, your groups are wacky, and you want to know "did I bump a turret on my scope, or is it just me?" Pop in the laser and find out, as long as the day isn't too bright.

Palehorseman
August 3, 2010, 06:21 AM
Ditto on the bore sighting, I set up the rifle in a soft padded vise out in the garage. If I was using live ammo, there is some writing on a certain electrical transformer I would have destroyed long ago.

ClayinAR
August 3, 2010, 06:45 AM
I bore sight at 25 yd. Then shoot at 100 yd. I will always be on the paper, usually within 2 to 5 inches. The only time that doesn't work is with a rifle you don't expect much accuracy from. MAK90, etc.
I bore sight by eye. I have a snow white box with a 3" black bull on it. 25 yd down the driveway, gun in a rifle vise. On other than bolt actions I have a surplus bore mirror. I hesitate to call it a bore sight to keep from confusing it with the common devices sold. Cost a buck at a gunshow. No point in wasting ammo at 25 or 50.
Obviously you would do shorter distances for a 22.
Others have given good advice on sighting in at 100. If you have a way to immobilize the gun at the range then walking the scope to the center of your group is good. When you have extreme high pressure cartridges there is no point in wearing out your barrel faster after it is broken in.

stinger 327
August 3, 2010, 01:38 PM
Laser bore sighter generally gets me on the paper at 50 yards. That's were I zero the center of a ten shot group and then POA generally yields POI +2" -4" from 0 to 250-300 yards. Works great for me in the pasture where I generally shoot at steel plates, 2-liter plastic bottles and 1-gal milk jugs -- never know the "exact" target range anyways.

I'm not much for futzing with adjustments -- scopes or irons.





Ignoring the differences between theory and practice :) But with $1-$2 a round ammo everybody would sure like it to work this way!
Alot easier said than done after a few boxes of ammo gone.

Famine
August 3, 2010, 01:54 PM
I bought a scope and had a coupon for a free bore sighting, so I did it. I took my rifle (30-30) to the range and shot "at" the 100 yard target...not even on the paper, no idea where it went! I shot 50 yards next and I was 2 feet off (hit the other guys target next to me)! I wasn't happy. I asked the owner of the range, who is a phenom at shooting anything, to take a shot from my rifle. He was 2 feet off at 50 yards. This guy takes off the caps and just starts cranking willy-nilly. I was scared. He takes a shot at 50 yards. He cranks the crap out of the windage and elevation again! He shoots at 100. He does a few clicks. He shoots 100 again. Just a few more clicks, and he hands me the rifle. "Spot on," he says. Four shots and this gun went from being 2 feet off at 50 yards to being spot on at 100 yards. It was the craziest thing I'd seen in a while.

The moral to this story is that bore sighting, IMO, is worthless...at least at Gander Mountain.

RainDodger
August 3, 2010, 02:05 PM
First, bore sight it. I do this at night. :) I set a flashlight about 50 yards away in my yard. I put the rifle in a rifle vise and sight down the bore at the flashlight, then adjust the scope reticle to the flashlight. That gets me on the paper, withing a few inches, at 50 yards.

Next, go to the range. Sight it in at 50 yards, taking into account the trajectory at that range, based on the final range you want to sight it in at.

Last, sight it in for the final range.

Done.

Zak Smith
August 3, 2010, 02:24 PM
If the scope is completely off, I can usually get "on" an IPSC target at 100 yards just by sandbagging the gun, looking through the bore with the bolt out and aligning it on my target. Then I turn the scope knobs (without moving the rifle) until they are aligned to the center of where the bore is pointing.

Then, if you have a scope with some calibrated hash marks (like mil dots, or moa hashes or whatever), it should take a very small number of rounds to make the POI coincide with the POA: shoot 1-5 shots (depending on how accurate your rifle is), then measure the windage and elevation offsets using the reticle. Dial those exact corrections on the knobs. The next group should be spot on.

I rezeroed the scope on my .308 (after using it on a different rifle for a while) in three rounds using this method last Sunday. The rifle is accurate (approx 0.2-0.3 MOA) so shooting a bunch of extra rounds for groups is not necessary.

stinger 327
August 3, 2010, 03:01 PM
So what's the average time to sight in a gun scope and iron sights for the average Joe?:confused:

stinger 327
August 3, 2010, 03:03 PM
I bought a scope and had a coupon for a free bore sighting, so I did it. I took my rifle (30-30) to the range and shot "at" the 100 yard target...not even on the paper, no idea where it went! I shot 50 yards next and I was 2 feet off (hit the other guys target next to me)! I wasn't happy. I asked the owner of the range, who is a phenom at shooting anything, to take a shot from my rifle. He was 2 feet off at 50 yards. This guy takes off the caps and just starts cranking willy-nilly. I was scared. He takes a shot at 50 yards. He cranks the crap out of the windage and elevation again! He shoots at 100. He does a few clicks. He shoots 100 again. Just a few more clicks, and he hands me the rifle. "Spot on," he says. Four shots and this gun went from being 2 feet off at 50 yards to being spot on at 100 yards. It was the craziest thing I'd seen in a while.

The moral to this story is that bore sighting, IMO, is worthless...at least at Gander Mountain.
When I bought a scope the place will bore sight and install for free. Well guess what when I went down to the range it wasn't even on paper.

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