45 Colt home/self defense

What is the concensus on using 250 gr. 45 Colt round nose filled to the top with 3f as self/home defense ammo in a warm climate, suburban environment? Thugs here don't wear jacket--too hot. How many thugs will this ammo go thru?

Thugs stacked Prison Lover style?
About 4 or 5.

IMO: A lead LSWC bullet would be a better choice then a LRN.
Still humongous penetration, but a bigger cleaner hole left for air to leak in and blood to leak out.

rc

Been shooting .45 LCs loaded with black powder for over 25 years. I would not be in the least hesitant about using this old war horse if needed.

My first go-to in the house is a 20X20 Howdah loaded with .60 caliber patch round ball with #4 Buck on top of that.


Buck n Ball an American Tradition Since 1775

.45 Colt should do the job just fine but why use black powder for HD when you can get modern smokeless hollowpoints? Have you ever fired several shots loaded with BP in a confined space? The smoke really makes it hard to idintify targets. If you can afford 20 rounds of hollow points it would probably be wise to buy a box, shoot a few and keep six in the pistol. Besides, non expanding bullets are more dangerous to your neighbors and that energy could be better spent making a bigger hole in the bad guy rather than sending the spent bullet off somewhere that it might do unwanted damage.

Here is something else you never thought of. Black powder residue is corrosive right? Suppose you do shoot an invader and the police take your pistol and hold it for a few weeks until the investigation is over. What then? They wont let you clean it while it is in the evidence impound even though they know you were in the right and will be cleared.

First off, if you've got the BP why not. I keep my pistols loaded whether they are CB or cartridge and all but one is loaded with BP, only because I haven't bought 38 S&W dies yet for that one.

Regarding the ammo, I'm not a fan of using a hand gun as a primary home defense weapon, I would personally choose to run my Mossberg 500 out of 12 gauge ammo before I have to draw that 45.

As far as getting your gun back, don't be naive; if you use that thing for home defense/self defense, law enforcement will NEVER give it back to you so you won't have to worry about corrosion, you'll have to worry more about a metal shredder that they will one day feed your prize gun to. I know this from personal family experience, once law enforcement gets it, they will keep it, period!!

I was going to sell my SAA clone 45 colt, but decided to keep it as a car glove box gun. This SAA is the least loved of my small gun collection. And I use BP simply because I happen to have 5 pounds of 3f sitting on the shelf and I don't shoot BP except for this gun. I use hardball simply because I happen to have 1000 of them. They were left over from matches. I saw one of Mossad Ayobi's interview, in which he said using a hardball, big caliber in typical home defense scenario would be reckless because of chances of overpenetration hitting neighbors. But he was talking about 38 special and 9mm. I don't know if 45 colt BP is more potent or equal to 39 special.

It may be just me but BP in the house may make for a hard follow up shot. I like the 45LC but for home defense using BP, not sure if I had other choices I'd do that.
Just my .02 cents.

I don't shoot BP in my .45 Colts, but it did the job from 1873 until smokeless came along. I have a .45ACP in the bedroom at the moment and ain't figurin' it ain't enough gun. Hell, I used to keep a .44 cal 51 navy loaded with round ball, all I had other than .22s until I got my Ruger Security Six. Never had to use it, but I knew it'd work.

Concerning getting your gun back after a legal shooting: You can and will get it back in most cases if the investigation shows you were justified in using deadly force but it might depend on State statutes. If law enforcement refuses to surrender the firearm to you then you will have to either get a court order or a lawyer to force them to give it up!
I have seen cases where the firearm was not required to be surrendered after a shooting...one in particular was the jewelry store owner (on the east coast if I remember right) who had been robbed several times and had shot and killed robbery suspects at least 3 times!!!!
Another was out here in CA when a gun store was burglarized late one night...several young men broke in after hours not knowing the owner lived there. One was shot and killed with a shotgun when he saw the owner come out from the back and pointed a gun at the owner!
Basically it going to depend on the situation, police dept policy, and possibly how well the Dept knows you, whether they confiscate your firearm or not.

MCgunner

I don't shoot BP in my .45 Colts, but it did the job from 1873 until smokeless came along.

When John Taffin unloaded Elmer Keiths handguns he reported that among the double action revolvers kept by the Old Man was a Colts Model P loaded with the load prefferred by Keith for self defense, the 45 long Colt black powder factory load with the 255 RN bullet. Elmer had long maintained the 45 long Colt with black powder would be his choice for a factory loaded SD round. It seems he followed his own advice.

Having fired black powder at an indoor range, not sure I'd like to do it again in my home but you can do as you prefer and know it was the choice of one of the most knowledgeable shooters.

I was told a story by a nephew of a former Chicago Il PD retirie that his uncle ih the late 1930s and 1940s carried a nickle plated S&W M&P (Model 10) that was loaded with BP loaded .38Special RNL. The theory was supposedly that once they pulled a gun they wanted everyone to know it and when they set one off they wanted the boom flash and smoke of BP to frighten the gathered folks. This was in a minority neighbor hood and that uncle supposedly felt those factors might lead to more likely making it home to momma at close of shift

Never fired BP in a closed room or inside at all. Followed some grenade "simulators" (about a 900 grains of BP) into rooms and it was cloudy to say the least.

Neatist BP device I ever watched was the "Tactical Nuclear Simulator" used by the US army to teach troops to observe, count and make measurements in the event of enemy Tac nuke use. BP propelling charge flung Smokeless powder/ magnesium powder charge into air to simulate the fire ball. BP provided plenty of smoke to form classic mushroom cloud with.

kBob

I guess if I couldn't have smokeless I'd grab my LaMat first, then my .45 Colt. But I do have plenty of stopping power in smokeless so don't keep them loaded. If black powder was better you would see police and military carrying them.

Modern black powder guns can dispatch a foeman as readily as their historic counterparts.

That said, remember, the police confiscate firearms involved in a shooting, test it for ballistics and hold it as evidence until the shooter is cleared of any criminal wrong doing. No one will clean the gun either so consider that it will be in a very poor shape by the time it is returned. Here, cheap imports that work rule over the ROA or the prized Uberti Walker replicas.

I take preserving my life fairly seriously.

I like BP, but only for fun.
For betting my life, I'll opt for modern technology.

4v50 Gary ...That said, remember, the police confiscate firearms involved in a shooting ...

Actually they will be confiscating ALL of your firearms, black powder, smokeless, air powered or whatever. And no, they may not get the tender loving care you would lavish on them.

So if someone has an Antique Gun Collection, and or is an FFL even...and, independent of that, is involved in a ritcheous SD Shooting...the Police will wish to confiscate the person's 'collection' or even inventory?

With care you can get between 35 and 37 grains in modern 45 Colt brass. With 3fg and a 250 grain lead slug you will be getting over a 1000 fps out of a 7 1/2" barrel. That load isn't even close to what any 38 special will deliver--way better. When you get right down to it, powerwise it is better than what most law enforcement are carrying today, it just isn't as convenient. As far as expansion issues, who cares? You would be darn lucky to get a .357 diameter slug to reliably expand out to .450 range, but you don't have to worry about that with the larger calibers. You will have to worry about overpenetration as odds are that will happen with most shots.

As far as reliablity goes I have shot thousands of black powder handloads and cannot remember a single one failing to go off if the primer works, if that ever happened it would be a moot point if it was loaded with black or smokeless.

I've never, and know of any other investigator that confiscated "all" firearms in the case of a justified shooting in a residence without some evidence that would give cause. I would hold the firearm that was used long enough to process and return it, unless it is needed in court. If there was a condition that time would alter the evidence, as in black powder residue, it would be processed immediately and cleaned to prevent damage. The owner can follow up with a request to prevent damage or deterioration and if measures are not taken then the department will be responsible. I've investigated homicides for years. The police are not out to cause unnecessary damage to anyone's personal property. Not saying that situations may exist where it is necessary to damage personal property. But not when a person shoots a perpetrator in defending their life or the life of another person. Ed.

Even if you did lose the gun, it would be a minor issue compared to what could have have happened. I guess the long and short of it is that it wouldn't be what I would be concerned with at that time.

I use blackpowder firearms for hunting, self protection and home defense. Alway's worked real good for me....

Good point Ed Gallop...and you can always ask the dept if you can go down there and inspect your weapon and clean and oil it if necessary. Remember...it is your firearm!!!!

Ed Gallop

I've never, and know of any other investigator that confiscated "all" firearms in the case of a justified shooting in a residence without some evidence that would give cause.

Ed is right about a justified shooting, for some reason I was going with a criminal action. In a justifiable action my dept would hold the firearm for investigation and at some point arrange for it to be returned.