mountain lion help


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destroyerbear
August 4, 2010, 02:11 AM
my mom believes she saw a mountain lion or cougar run across a field beside our house. i don't hunt at all but i believe i could do fairly well with info from all of my neighbors and friends, but im not sure what kind of gun i should use. all i have is an 870 12 gge with a modified choke, a .45 acp s&w, and a .22 lr single shot and a compound bow. i was thinking of gettin a .270, or something that will hit it without it having a chance to get close to rip my face off. and if ya have any hints and tips on hunting these cats, let me know. thanks :B
i live in west virginia. i havent checked laws or anything yet, but i'll find out, don't want it eatin my sister or my neighbors when they are out taking a stroll. there are also some small small children around here so hopefully my neighbors and i can keep them away. also forgot to mention, the govmnt released some cougars around my area. i have decided to go with a mossberg 100 atr in .270 and find a mid-range scope so i can bait him in with some decoy animal and calls without being right beside him. im gonna carry my 12 with some 00 buck while im taking my trek to get setup.

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Purgatory
August 4, 2010, 02:41 AM
870 would be good for your back-up wingman to carry if you're goin' huntin' for this thing. Slugs in the 12 ga would probably work dandily, if not be recommended. Good double or triple ought buck would be fine too.

.270 SHOULD be fine for the main dispatching rifle that you will carry, but, considering a large, very dangerous cat, some might recommend a larger caliber. Possibly a .308 or bigger.

A good .45 is not a bad idea on the belt stoked with quality fmj's or even some of those flat point hard cast that Buffalo Bore or Double Tap makes. -If your gun will run 'em, that is. This option would only be used if your head is in the cat's mouth and your buddy is out of commission, of course.

In any instance, use the shotgun and/or rifle FIRST.

I would most-certainly leave the do-it-all .22 at home for this one particular mission. Though we do love it so.

Roughneck08
August 4, 2010, 05:59 AM
Cougars are good at hunting the hunter. Unless you have dogs to run 'im up a tree I'd say don't go looking for him. I can speak from experience we had one cross paths around our land. They are usually hunting you before you see him. A .270 would do fine. These cats aren't bullet proof old timers would tree them up north and pop 'em with a 38 revlover. Be careful, though and have fun. If you do kill one make sure to call the gamewarden and let him know you shot one they do research and track their patterns. Atleast that is what they do here in TX.

jimmyraythomason
August 4, 2010, 06:09 AM
What state are you in?

slabuda
August 4, 2010, 06:12 AM
Yea most folks in Idaho that purposely hunt them, run them with dogs and lots use a .357/.44 mag or .45 colt. Most any deer rifle would work. A 12 g. would would with buck and slugs for sure. A .270 would drop one good. A .45ACP not my 1st choice but it could work if its all I had. Better than a rock I suppose, but it is what I have normally carried when out in the mountains as it was the biggest I had. I now have a .45colt and that will be my new mountain gun.

Others that get them are usually by accident (seeing one while out for deer) and use their deer rifle.



Ill say that these cats worry me more than the black bears and even the wolves here in Idaho. Idaho has some of the biggest cats around. Holds a fair amount of record cats. Im talking females over 100lbs and males...its not uncommon to hear of one going 140lbs. plus and you hear of some that are monsters now and again. Easily the size of a full grown average male. My point in all this is, unless I happened across one, I wouldn't look for them unless I had dogs.
http://www.rmgameandfish.com/hunting/big-game-hunting/rm_aa014605a/index.html

I have never "seen" a cat but have seen sign (fresh too!!) a few times. When Im up in the mountains, you wont catch me with out a gun at night when going to the "bushes"

Art Eatman
August 4, 2010, 09:42 AM
In general but not always: Mama cats tend to hang around a den area and hunt at night. Rarely seen except maybe when teaching cubs to hunt.

Toms are travelers. Depending on intents which are known only to the critter, they may travel as much as fifty miles in a day.

For any, a hunting radius of some five miles is not unusual.

saturno_v
August 4, 2010, 05:46 PM
270 SHOULD be fine for the main dispatching rifle that you will carry, but, considering a large, very dangerous cat, some might recommend a larger caliber. Possibly a .308 or bigger.


A .270 Win is almost too powerful for a Cougar....with the right bullet it would tear one to pieces, however there is a risk of a bullet exploding on impact (resulting in too little penetration) at extreme close ranges, always a possibility with high velocity rifle cartridges.

Purgatory
August 4, 2010, 05:57 PM
Quote:
270 SHOULD be fine for the main dispatching rifle that you will carry, but, considering a large, very dangerous cat, some might recommend a larger caliber. Possibly a .308 or bigger.



A .270 Win is almost too powerful for a Cougar....with the right bullet it would tear one to pieces, however there is a risk of a bullet exploding on impact (resulting in too little penetration) at extreme close ranges, always a possibility with high velocity rifle cartridges.
Today 08:42 AM


I do forget when speaking of large cats that they are said to be thin-skinned.
Usually just factor for the size and weight range.

After reading your post, I'm sincerely curious now. What would you recommend would be better?

A heavier similar velocity bullet (.308, .30-06, .300 win mag) or a heavier much slower velocity bullet? (.44 mag, .45-70, etc.)

Greg Koziol
August 4, 2010, 08:16 PM
your 870 would work. Get the winchester super x slugs for your 870. Get the 1 oz rifled slugs 3" shell, they travel at 1700 fps.. their pretty flat shooting up to 100 yards, plenty of power... though its gonna involve more work and time on your part to get that close to a mountain lion. Your gonna need to do a lot of scouting, which sounds like you have plenty of info from your nieighbors and friends on where this cat is. If not get something like a .308 or .30-06 with a long range scope and get a good vantage point and camo yourself real well. Mountain lions like all big cats have very good vision.. especially at night!! Cats typically hunt at night, but they do hunt during the day too. Get good camo and stay as still as possible, don't do a lot of moving, approach known dwelling areas as quietly as you can. Get your .308 or .30-06 and sit at a good area where you can see your entire area like the top of a hill and just sit around and look around for em with binoculars.

oneounceload
August 4, 2010, 08:27 PM
Use the 12 with 00 buck - unless you're somewhat close, you'll either not see the cat or won't be able to get the shot off. We would run them with dogs in northern NV, tree them, and either shoot them with a camera or a 38

Flintknapper
August 4, 2010, 08:48 PM
Cougars are NOT hard to kill (given good shot placement), so no need for anything over .243 or 7mm-08 if you do buy a rifle.

Chances are....you will never see the cougar again, so I wouldn't run out and buy a new firearm for that purpose only.

OTOH....if you just have a hankering for new rifle, then.....a cougar sighting makes one fine excuse. ;)

Blue Brick
August 4, 2010, 09:30 PM
38 Spl.

sonier
August 4, 2010, 09:38 PM
I live in the second most cougar populated county in colorado, my next door county is the first. The hunting guides around here recomend VERY LIGHTWEIGHT rifles such as lever actions and single shots. the most common dispatch caliber is a .243 many use pistol calibers such as 357 mag 45 long colt etc. Cougars are not hard to kill at all, the thing you need most is a reliable rifle that can be very mobile. Go buy a H&R singleshot .243 winchester.

DOUBLE CHECK YOUR LAWS, in Colorado they set up an investigation if a cougar is killed, in order to legally have shot that cougar. You must have been in imediate danger and the animal must have been close enough to rip your arm off. If you kill a Cougar be careful, the fines can be very pricy.

saturno_v
August 4, 2010, 10:44 PM
After reading your post, I'm sincerely curious now. What would you recommend would be better?


To a 270 bolt I would much prefer a 30-30 lever for cougar defence.

More handy and a faster repeating platform.

You can use any of the commercial soft point 150 or 170 grainers, no risk of exploding bullets at 30-30 velocities even at almost point blank range.

A 170 gr. partition would give you expansion and deep penetration but it could not expand much on a light framed animal like a cougar at typical defense ranges...it would be a straight go-through shot...in few words, not need of exotic bullets in a 30-30 against a cougar.

Art Eatman
August 4, 2010, 11:07 PM
Don't wreck the backstraps or hams. Yummy eathing.

slabuda
August 5, 2010, 12:19 AM
Don't wreck the backstraps or hams. Yummy eating.

Are they Art? Ive never had cat. Whats a good way to cook them? Id like to give it a try sometime. Be nice to say my rug tasted good!! :)

Purgatory
August 5, 2010, 12:30 AM
Yeah, a lever .30-30 would certainly be handy.

So, I guess my SKS with 150 grain Cor-Bons would be perfect, then. :)

Still haven't secured a good lever gun, but my journey of firearms exploration keeps bringing me back to the practicality of the concept. And, of course I just think it'd be really cool to have and use one.

I'd like one in .30-30 and, eventually, one in .45-70. So, I'd probably end up with a few of the calibers in between as well.

But, for having handy in Big Cat-ville, the .30-30 seems plenty efficient, if not ideal.

And I would actually love to try some wild cat meat.

Would make the hunt that much more necessary.

saturno_v
August 5, 2010, 12:39 AM
Purgatory

I own a 30-30 lever (Marlin 336) and I'm in the process of getting a 45-70 myself...:)

Leanwolf
August 5, 2010, 12:56 AM
"SATURNO V - To a 270 bolt I would much prefer a 30-30 lever for cougar defence.

More handy and a faster repeating platform.

You can use any of the commercial soft point 150 or 170 grainers, no risk of exploding bullets at 30-30 velocities even at almost point blank range.

A 170 gr. partition would give you expansion and deep penetration but it could not expand much on a light framed animal like a cougar at typical defense ranges...it would be a straight go-through shot...in few words, no need of exotic bullets in a 30-30 against a cougar."

I'm with Saturno V. Marlin 336 in .30-30 WCF (or Win. 94, etc.). Lightweight, easy handling, and plenty of power.

Here is a "rig" that I often carry when out scouting for elk and deer, etc., in Black bear, Mountain lion, and wolf country, before hunting seasons. I don't always carry the revolver but I'll carry the rifle; I don't always carry the Marlin, but I carry the RBH .45 Colt, but when I am totally alone and my partner is hours away scouting in another drainage, I carry both, along with the stuff pictured and an unpictured, small daypack which will get me through the night should I have to stay out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/Leanwolf/MyStuff.jpg

As others have said, Mountain lions are not hard to kill if you shoot accurately.

L.W.

Purgatory
August 5, 2010, 02:13 AM
That's a pretty slick set-up, there, Leanwolf. Think I'd feel plenty confident in my ability to stay over night on the mountain. -Might even make it two nights.

Especially if there's a fire starting implement in that knife sheath. Or is it just sharpening stones?

Either way, a kit like that gives a man a good reason to happen to get stuck in the woods and have to tie-up horse and make a quick lean-to and start a camp fire.

If for no other reason, but to test his steel. -And to scout out the area strategically for the hunt, of course. ;)

blackops
August 5, 2010, 03:06 AM
Art explains it best.

Usually guys will hunt them down with dogs or bait them.

I wouldn't use a 30-30. I think the 270 is perfect actually.

Greg Koziol
August 5, 2010, 04:10 AM
A spear works good too...!! haha just walk around in the woods and see if he tries to attack and when he does spear that f'er

OYE
August 5, 2010, 06:35 AM
Have lions here in S.W. Idaho within 2 miles of the house. See them now and then in winter, caught a few in traps from time to time. Never had the urge to shoot one.
Spent a total of many months camped in lion country with horses with no issues. You can always stay home and watch television ( don't have one of them either). Might try
a deer distress call if you have evidence of one close by though and the season is in.
Without hounds it's probably a poor proposition unless you're in the backcountry in winter. Of course finding a fresh kill can improve your
odds dramatically ( they ain't too far away, and they are coming back).

Art Eatman
August 5, 2010, 11:38 AM
A friend of mine did a slow-cook barbecue of hams and backstraps from a 3/4-grown cougar. Brought the meat to a party gathering where there also was beef, pork and venison.

The lion meat was "all et up" first...

Joe Demko
August 5, 2010, 11:53 AM
Ive never had cat. Whats a good way to cook them? Id like to give it a try sometime. Be nice to say my rug tasted good!!

If you don't live in lion country, perhaps you could try the "rock cornish game hen" variant.

Leanwolf
August 5, 2010, 03:01 PM
PURGATORY - "That's a pretty slick set-up, there, Leanwolf. Think I'd feel plenty confident in my ability to stay over night on the mountain. -Might even make it two nights.

Especially if there's a fire starting implement in that knife sheath. Or is it just sharpening stones? "

Thanks for the compliment, Purgatory. As for "fire starting," yes, in that black nylon pouch on the Ruana sheath is a 3/8"x4" ferro rod and striker, char cloth, a couple of Band Aids, and the red nylon cord is 20' long. The yellow "block" above the pouch is a firestarter made of waxed newspaper rolled tightly with a wick for lighting. That waxed block will burn for 15 minutes.

I also keep a Bic lighter in my daypack and my ancient Zippo in my trousers pocket. I won that Zippo, practically new, in a Sunday afternoon barracks poker game when I was in the Army stationed at Fort Gordon, Georgia, many, many years ago. It has never failed me under some really harsh outdoor conditions.

If I have to stay out -- and I have several times -- I want shelter and fire and a bit of protection from "things that go bump in the night." I'm a firm believer in those particular necessities. So I go prepared. :)

L.W.

destroyerbear
August 6, 2010, 02:44 PM
haha i like ur thinkin greg koziol.

joe_security
August 6, 2010, 03:17 PM
The Police killed one on the north side of Chicago, about 2 years ago. 7 or 8 rounds of assorted 9mm and .38 spl.

sonier
August 7, 2010, 08:35 AM
Yea I have two Anti cougar guns, one is a 50s model remington 740 in 30/06. I feed that monster with some medium powered 220 grain loads, this same load will also take down a grizzly with good placement. The gun that sees its most share of late night hauls and firing in the air,, ;) well it couldnt be anything other than my grandfathers winchester model 94. Its chambered in 30/30 and I have some custom 160 grain ftx loads for it. The only thing wrong with lever actions in my opinion are short stroking where you dont fully pick up a round, and sometimes you have to squeeze real hard shutting the lever or the action dose not close up fully. The action problem is probally me not trimming brass all the time ;)

Purgatory
August 7, 2010, 12:28 PM
Yep, you've got the basics covered, then, Leanwolf. I keep a Zippo with extra fuel in my campin bag, too. They're definitely a life saver if you can shield the wind, they won't fail you. Warmth, morale and a hot meal make all the difference.

Happy Trails.

Greg Koziol
August 7, 2010, 05:05 PM
haha i like ur thinkin greg koziol.
you solve several problems... you don't have to scout or bait him since YOU are the bait and he is already stalking you haha and then when he comes in to pounce on you just spear him haha... very dangerous... i'd get a pair of chaps that tree cutters use for trimming thorny bushes so if he claws you you won't get hurt. hahahah

sonier
August 7, 2010, 08:02 PM
kevlar chainsaw chaps work great :) seriously if it can stop a chainsaw...............

Purgatory
August 8, 2010, 02:14 AM
kevlar chainsaw chaps work great seriously if it can stop a chainsaw...............

Then you'd just end up with powdered femurs after that mammoth land shark Rag Dolls your ace. :eek:

If you're gonna spear a Grizz, you might as well wire yourself with explosives rigged to a dead man switch that your hand has to hold clamped and when you cash out.....well....at least you'll get the last word.






-Even if it IS, "OHHH SHIII....!!" :D

EDIT: OK, SORRY. WRONG DEADLY ANIMAL. WITH ALL THESE BEAR THREADS FLYIN AROUND I GOT MIXED UP.

You wana spear a mountain lion with kevlar chaps on?........Ok, cool, no problem there.

Jefferson Herb
August 8, 2010, 02:49 AM
Longtail backstrap: cut 3/4 in thick min,egg and flour w season salt and pepper;EASY on the seasoning as it's delicate meat and easy to over season.Fry in skillet,be sure to bring internal temp to 170deg f as they can carry tricinosis.
There is a bar in Darby Mt that has a stew feed ea yr.
As for caliber,the late Steve Matthes had a frontier mod colt built in .218 bee to use on Jaguar and lion[also used dogs],and He was always concerned about his dogs safety.

kbbailey
August 19, 2010, 09:29 PM
good looking gear you have there Leanwolf....

I have the exact same stuff 'cept my BH is 7.5" bbl.

Art Eatman
August 21, 2010, 12:21 AM
Checking back to the opening post, it pretty much looks like this thread has run its course...

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