[10-Ring]

Being a CA resident, I'm really limited in the firearms I can purchase. I ran into a HK VP70 and I'm kinda intrigued (simply because it's HK & very diff't). Tell me, what are they worth? Are there any quirks I should know about? Is it a good shooter?

[Porter Rockwell]

Hello, I've owned a a few VP-70s
The only complaint is the extremely heavy trigger pull that is easily cured these days with a Wolf spring kit.
IMNSHO Glock used the VP-70 as a prototype.
I see the VP-70s in the $400.00 to $600.00 range and magazines are still reasonable, I have no clue how the Calif gun laws may effect the German hicap?
The gun was designed to be a SMG and the Euro versions have shoulder stocks with internal fire control.
If you can manage the trigger the gun is very accurate and reliable with any level of ammo including the hot SMG loads and is conventionally rifled so lead reloads are fine.

[Penman]

When you have another chance to examine one, take a close look at the rifling-it's very deep. I read that the deep grooves were supposed to allow some gas to blow past the bullet, to keep pressures lower. Don't know if this is the case, anybody ever chronograph loads out of one? Very comfortable grip for a high capacity frame, of course all the mechanics are above the grip area. The front sight is an interesting concept, not sure how well it works in real life.

[Erich]

http://www.hkpro.com/VP70.htm

and another photo with info:

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/civ/vp/vp70z.htm

Last one I saw NIB (a couple of months ago) had a $595.00 price tag on it, with both mags included. Used with one mag, probably looking at around $400.00 - $425.00. The mags run as high as $75.00 each, used, but I've found them as low as $40.00 within the last couple of months.

The link will tell you all the history you want. The VP-70 is a neat gun from a techie standpoint, derived from a last-ditch Nazi design and improved with the intention of making sort of an idiot-proof police/military gun with a nifty 3-round burst capability (the Zivil version (VP-70Z) that you're looking at does not have that capability, of course).

It's very typical of HK's daring and somewhat offbeat designs: a blowback high-cap 9x19 with a polymer frame, designed in the '40s and '60s. The magazines are seriously high quality and load like those of an SMG (i.e., hold the round on top of the feed lips and shove it down through them, none of this wimpy "push down on the follower and slide the round back between the mag lips" nonsense).

The trigger pull is long and heavy, and works best when you stroke through it (you'll kill your arm trying to stage it, tho a squeezy-ball helps build up the right muscles to do it better) - most folks hate the trigger; I just think it's something you need to learn how to use. The trigger is full DA each time, so there is second-strike capability (though I've never had a primer fail to ignite on the first hit from a VP-70Z striker) unlike the Glock's system.

The front sight is really neat, too (good photo on the first link), relying on an optical illusion for a front post: Hard to break that off! I, too, have read the info that Penman refers to (claiming the deep grooved barrel is designed to slow down the bullet and lower pressures for the blowback action), but I've never seen it confirmed on anything from HK. I've never chrono'd a VP-70, but I can tell you that +P+ 115 grainers are definitely supersonic out the front ( CRACK! ), and the slide is a whole lot easier to pull back than I would expect on a straight blowback Parabellum. They're one-hole accurate off a bench at 30' (blowback actions will do that often, as will HKs).

Finally, I'd mention that the VP-70s have the thinnest-feeling grip frame of any double-column pistol I've ever handled (which is pretty much all of them). Despite that, people routinely comment that the pistol is enormous. It's not, it's a little smaller than a Sig P220. It seems to feel bigger, though for several reasons.
The frame swells above the grip to provide a platform for the slide (the slide is right about an inch thick, and the thickest part of the gun is probably 1.25" thick - it's actually a fairly slim piece). Most of the weight of the gun is above the grip, so it feels odd when being held (and this feeling is amplified by the skinny grip), although it feels fine in use. The typical HK oversized trigger guard extends WAY out beyond where it would on an ordinary gun (folks, you could shoot this thing wearing mittens) and has been stylized into the frame so that it's even bigger than it needs to be. It's hard to find a holster for a VP-70 (the Bianchi UMH will work), but this guy can make you one fast:

http://www.kholsters.com/

Hope this all helped. Feel free to email me with any more specific Qs. Cheers!

[10-Ring]

Thanks for the input guys! I'll go back to the shop later and check out what the deal will include.

[Wakal]

They are fun, although they do tend to give you finger hernias (even with the Wolff kit) after a few magazines...especially if you are used to tuned 1911's.

And, for those that care, they were also one of the sidearms of the Colonial Marines in Aliens.

http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/images/file/props/alienvp70z.jpg


A

[10-Ring]

NIce pic, thanks! How bad are the triggers really? Gritty, vague, heavy? I've heard they are very heavy, what are we talking...12#, 15#, 18# 20# pull?

[Wakal]

Smooth, and two-stage. Long (long long long) draw, slight pause, then a break. Mine was about 17 pounds (I say 'about' because my pull gauge only goes up to 9, so I had to play the "weights on a string" game) before I dropped the spring kit into it, now it is about 13.

Very...round...gun. No sharp edges on a gun designed decades before the 'meltdown' look was popular. Comfortable to carry, even if (as others said) it seems huge at first glance. Not enough "comfortable" to replace my 1911's, but a pretty neat piece all around.

And if you liked that picture...

http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/images/file/temp/desk_middle_jan031.JPG

[Erich]

I agree with your estimation of the trigger weight, but I'd like to point something out: yeah, your finger gets tired after firing 19 rounds from the VP-70. Fire a Ruger GP-100 DA 19 times in the same period, and tell me your finger is any less tired.

If you think of the VP's trigger as being equivalent to a revo's DA trigger (and this is how you're going to have to think if you want to train to fire with any rapidity and accuracy - Stroke through it!), it begins to make sense and seem completely unoppressive.

Remember, the Volkspistole is designed for the everyday schlub, not an IPSC Grand Master. I treat mine like it's a 19-shot revolver with a bunch of 18-round speedloaders - we get along fine. :)

[10-Ring]

Remember, the Volkspistole is designed for the everyday schlub, not an IPSC Grand Master. I treat mine like it's a 19-shot revolver with a bunch of 18-round speedloaders - we get along fine.

Thanks, that really puts things into perspective.

[gbelleh]

The trigger is unbelievably bad. On the one I shot, the trigger was WAY heavier than ANY DA revolver. I mean, I had to squeeze hard with both index fingers to get a shot off. My friend claims the trigger has gotten a little easier now, but at first we thought the safety must be on.

I like the gun other than the trigger. It's a really neat, different and historically interesting gun, but like I've said before, it's great as a collector gun if you're into HKs, but as far as a serious self defense gun, there's no way I'd be able to use it effectively. But it might work for you if you especially if you happen to have gorilla hands.

[David S]

hey wakal, explain so of whats in that picture.......

[Sean Smith]

Horrible, horrible trigger.

[Wakal]

Grandmaster? No, just a poor schlub "B" shooter sandbagging until his classifiers catch up :uhoh:

The desktop picture? The silver milk crate was one of a cast of thousands used as floor tiles on the Sulaco and on the APC bay. Gerber Mark II (the "knife trick" knife), VP70 (Lt. Gorman's pistol), Hicks' dog tags, a 30mm grenade, and all the patches. I have a Pulse Rifle under construction, built on an Airsoft full auto Thompson M1A1, but my wife's new Limited gun and my own new STI carry gun are numbers 1 and 2 on the priority list right now. So many projects, so little time to work in the shop.



Alex