close range coyotes with 9mm handgun?


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butcherboy
August 5, 2010, 10:35 PM
when im in my fields mowing grass i often have coyotes pop out of the tall grass at under 25 yards away. will a hit with a 9mm do anything to a coyote at that range? handgun is a ruger p95 3.5 barrel. thanks

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bac1023
August 5, 2010, 10:41 PM
A JHP 9mm should make a mess of a coyote at that range.

Rotting
August 5, 2010, 10:48 PM
Here is a much, much better question: Why the hell would you want to shoot a coyote? Have you or anyone that you know or anyone that THEY know ever been attacked or put into an EVEN POTENTIALLY dangerous situation by a coyote? Do you eat coyote?

I would give you 100:1 odds that the answer to those questions is "no."

groundhog34
August 5, 2010, 10:51 PM
All coyotes MUST die. They eat: chickens, pet cats and dogs, fawns, calf, etc. There has been a few reports of them attacking humans.

45Fan
August 5, 2010, 10:58 PM
As a general rule, I dont shoot animals that I wont eat, but the coyote population in my state has exploded in recent years. While I have yet to be attacked by any, I have found deer kills as close as a few hundred feet from my and my fathers house. I would immagine that if they can catch and kill a deer, it wouldnt be difficult for a pack to do a good bit of damage to myself, or another member of my family.

Purgatory
August 5, 2010, 11:06 PM
Yes, a 9mm should dispatch it humanely. As bac1023 stated, Hollow Points would be a good idea, but not entirely necessary.

Rotting
August 5, 2010, 11:06 PM
I'm sure everyone on this message board can come up with ways to rationalize killing a coyote or (insert any number of North American wildlife here) by saying "coyotes might do XYZ, therefore I need to kill them." Justification by offering the most fringe of examples.

If that's the way you think, and apply that logic to everything else you do in life, you'd never buy milk at a grocery store for fear of a botulism outbreak, never drive a car for fear of a 18-wheeler crossing the highway and colliding with you head-on, or, more to the point - would spend every waking hour hunting down every bobcat, mountain lion, bear, coyote, fox, wolf, etc. within a 25 mile radius of your and every of your family member's houses.

Just leave the damn thing alone and let it live its life. For crying out loud.

TexasPatriot.308
August 5, 2010, 11:11 PM
maybe this ought to be on "the View" coyotes in front of me die by whatever firearms I got 10 yards, 500 yards, if I got the right gun I use it.

oboe
August 5, 2010, 11:11 PM
But don't send your little toy poochie out for his evening stroll alone - not if you live where my sister lives in AZ. The coyotes do prowl the same neighborhoods regardless of what might be built there now. You usually don't need to shoot 'em. But they can gang up on you, so be prepared. Oh, also, if you live in one of those communities with walls, or if your own property has a wall - these critters can JUMP!

So, right, just because you see one is no reason to shoot it - but do be prepared if they give you a reason, if you live in one of those places they frequent.

TH3180
August 5, 2010, 11:16 PM
Butcherboy take out one or a hundred for me please.

Here is a much, much better question: Why the hell would you want to shoot a coyote? Have you or anyone that you know or anyone that THEY know ever been attacked or put into an EVEN POTENTIALLY dangerous situation by a coyote? Do you eat coyote?

I would give you 100:1 odds that the answer to those questions is "no."
9 months ago I was attacked by a coyote in my garage while sitting in a lawn chair reading a book. I live 37 miles from the center of Downtown minneapolis. As far as I'm concerned coyotes are good for nothing animals. So there you have it I know someone that has been attacked. I have the hospital bills to prove it.

Gun Geezer
August 5, 2010, 11:16 PM
Yep, 9mm will do the job at 25 yards and I would think even out to 50 yards. But not much further. I'd be lucky to make the shot myself!

Yotes ABSOLUTELY take pets from back yards. Have seen it done and then listened while little "fluffy" was snacked on just out past the tree line. I would not hunt them to extinction, but they do compete with me for the deer I PAY to hunt. The competition is darn good at taking fawns and even full grown deer (seen that done also). Yep, I shoot them with a vengence.:)

valorius
August 5, 2010, 11:20 PM
when im in my fields mowing grass i often have coyotes pop out of the tall grass at under 25 yards away. will a hit with a 9mm do anything to a coyote at that range? handgun is a ruger p95 3.5 barrel. thanks
A 9mm JHP will easily kill a Coyote at ranges far beyond 25 yds. Well out beyond 100 with a carbine.

Coyotes are dangerous animals. An older couple in the US was just killed by a pack of Coyotes within the last few months (a google search should turn up the story). The Governer of Texas just had to shoot one that attacked him and his dog a few months back too. Ruger even introduced a special model of the LCP .380 in commemoration of the incident. He was using an LCP during the attack.

Link to Coyote commemorative LCP pic: http://c2.api.ning.com/files/37ZJjh9ckas8sHclaawVrw*kn4bhbU0XN7ofC0-S8T5ncyWvWSjv2MzGtiyIdM*fqU9aG-tLFNngCHUGNUL8PU5utPPFlWEQ/rugertruetexan380.jpg

I guess he was not informed of Rotting's opinion that Coyotes are harmless and should never be shot.

45Fan
August 5, 2010, 11:21 PM
Wasnt it in Texas that a mayor or govoner shot one with an LCP? I think if a .380 will do the job, a 9 mm will just do it a little better.

Rotting
August 5, 2010, 11:31 PM
I guess he was not informed of Rottings opinion that Coyotes are harmless and should never be shot.

deleted -- <Sam>

The funny thing is that you, apparently, and the guy mentioning "The View" seem to think that *I'M* the pansy--although I'm not scared in the least by these walking dealers of death known as coyotes. I'll tell you what, I've come across dozens and dozens of coyotes in my life and haven't killed a one. It's a miracle that a pansy like me is still alive to talk about it. A MIRACLE!

Purgatory
August 5, 2010, 11:33 PM
Yotes ABSOLUTELY take pets from back yards. Have seen it done and then listened while little "fluffy" was snacked on just out past the tree line.

I would chase that thing down and end it with my bare hands if it took my dog if I couldn't get it with my gun.

How were u able to fend it off, TH3180?

TexasPatriot.308
August 5, 2010, 11:35 PM
Ruger Coyote special. in .380, gov. good hair Perry shot a coyote witha LCP .380, Ruger made a 1,000 of em, priced around $500, and people are buying them. when not a .380, killed a bunch with a .22 or .22 mag even more with a .17hmr..

ILikeLead
August 5, 2010, 11:36 PM
It sounds to me that Rotting has not had much interaction with the varmints. Around here coyotes tend to run scared and not be "much" trouble. That's only because most everyone I know will shoot any they see on site. Refer to California and the Mountain Lions for what will happen if you don't keep predators scared of humans.

ILikeLead
August 5, 2010, 11:40 PM
Butcherboy. How many threads have you opened on this subject? I have found at least 3!

Sapper771
August 5, 2010, 11:47 PM
Rotting,

I also kill coyotes on sight. They have made a mess of our neighbor's cattle farm. They mingle with the wild dog population that is well known for carrying rabies. The last thing I want to do is have to put one of my animals down because it was bitten by a rabid dog/coyote. The local wildlife management Officer has given us permission to kill them out, regardless of season.


To the OP, With a good hit, the 9mm should be effective at dropping a coyote. More so with a quality hollow point bullet.

TH3180
August 5, 2010, 11:50 PM
I would chase that thing down and end it with my bare hands if it took my dog if I couldn't get it with my gun.

How were u able to fend it off, TH3180?
I had no idea it was there until it lunged at me. It got one good bit on my right knee and then I fell backwards in my lawn chair. It got caught up in the legs of my chair long enough for me to scream like a little girl and run into the house. I called 911 and told them what happend. when the first cop got there the coyote was still hanging around my driveway and garage. They killed him on the spot. ( I hope thats ok with Rotting) Within a few hours four pets were found dead in my area. I guess to answer you, I didn't fend him off I got really lucky. Scarey part of the whole thing, 10 minutes before it happend I was pushing my now 15 month old daughter in her stroller up and down the driveway. The DNR told me he probably sat and watch us go up and down the driveway. So to anyone that says they are harmless animals I have to disagree. I could have been killed, worse yet my daughter could have been killed.

Purgatory
August 5, 2010, 11:55 PM
Funny thing is, I'd probably have been just as heroic as you say you were in the instance that it surprised me like that.

But if I saw one near one of my pack, not to mention a child, things would be a might bit different to say the least.

Yeah, those are scary stories. I live in a very urban metroplex but we see them occasionally on the fringes and they're more of an attraction than a terror, so far. I'm sure that's bound to change.

Gun Geezer
August 6, 2010, 12:17 AM
I am getting off topic here, but we have bobcats living in town now. The suckers are spotted occasionally. Beats me where they are holding up during the day, but at night folks keep the pets inside or loose them. Got to be under an empty house of somethhing.

inthelineofire
August 6, 2010, 12:30 AM
I'm sure everyone on this message board can come up with ways to rationalize killing a coyote or (insert any number of North American wildlife here) by saying "coyotes might do XYZ, therefore I need to kill them." Justification by offering the most fringe of examples.

If that's the way you think, and apply that logic to everything else you do in life, you'd never buy milk at a grocery store for fear of a botulism outbreak, never drive a car for fear of a 18-wheeler crossing the highway and colliding with you head-on, or, more to the point - would spend every waking hour hunting down every bobcat, mountain lion, bear, coyote, fox, wolf, etc. within a 25 mile radius of your and every of your family member's houses.

Just leave the damn thing alone and let it live its life. For crying out loud.

Easy for you be the "armchair commando" and tell the OP what to do on his own damned property. For all we know, the OP (or his family or friends) may be farmers and are trying to eliminate the threat to their livelihood. Yes, coyotes will INVADE a farm and BUTCHER all kinds of Livestock. The population here in NJ has grown recently as well, and farmers all around are suffering because of it.

So, next time something has the potential to effect your income and/or family, just "leave the damn thing alone and let it live it's life."

Good lord.

valorius
August 6, 2010, 12:39 AM
You, obviously, have reading comprehension difficulties. Which doesn't surprise based on your position. If you want to shoot coyotes and protect yourself from the PURE TERROR on four legs that are coyotes, be my guest. Nail some garlic to your walls and sprinkle holy water in front of your door while you're at it.

The funny thing is that you, apparently, and the guy mentioning "The View" seem to think that *I'M* the pansy--although I'm not scared in the least by these walking dealers of death known as coyotes. I'll tell you what, I've come across dozens and dozens of coyotes in my life and haven't killed a one. It's a miracle that a pansy like me is still alive to talk about it. A MIRACLE!

Coyotes are very dangerous animals. It's really quite simple:

Plenty of stories of attacks if you're willing to spend about 10 seconds to research the topic:

http://www.google.com/search?q=couple+killed+by+coyotes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://www.themorningstarr.co.uk/images/young-musician-killed-by-coyotes/taylor-mitchell.jpg
This beautiful 19yo girl is dead now- killed by Coyotes

Young Musician Killed By Coyotes
by Peter Jolly
Young Musician Killed By Coyotes thumbnail

19 year old Taylor Josephine Stephanie Luciow, who performed under the name Taylor Mitchell has been tragically killed when a pair of coyotes mauled her on the Skyline Trail in Cape Breton Highlands National Park in Canada.

The young folk singer was hiking alone on Tuesday when two coyotes attacked her. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police received a 911 call to report that a hiker was being attacked by two coyotes, when they arrived at the scene they found Ms. Mitchell badly injured and shot one of the coyotes at the scene. (I guess the cops didn't hear your opinion about Coyotes being harmless either, eh?)

Ms. Mitchell was rushed to Sacred Heart Hospital in Cheticamp to treat the bites which covered her body. She was then later airlifted to the Queen Elizabeth II Health Sciences Centre in Halifax but died of her injuries on Wednesday morning.

Ms. Mitchell was part way through a tour of the East Coast of Canada.

Park rangers are still hunting for the second coyote which carried out the attack.

http://www.themorningstarr.co.uk/2009/10/29/young-musician-killed-by-coyotes/

And this list of attacks on humans, so long it wouldn't even fit on this forum. (27,000 characters long)

http://varmintal.com/attac.htm

A random snippet from that link:

"7/12/01 Vancouver, Canada. Baby's mother recalls coyote attack. The Vancouver mother who saved her 15-month-old daughter from a coyote this week says she wasn't thinking – she just just acted. Dora Chan was gardening in her yard with her baby when the coyote grabbed the little girl by the head on Monday evening. Chan kicked and punched the animal until it let go. The child is now at home again, after being released from hospital. Half her face is stitched up and swollen. ...snip... Story Here."

Rotting, you are completely wrong. And the evidence proves it.

Nushif
August 6, 2010, 01:53 AM
/ranton

I love these caliber questions ...

"Would a 105 *really* be enough if I hit an enemy jeep with it? I think I'd feel better if I had that 155."

At a certain point caliber does need to be put into consideration, for sure. But godamn people. It kills people! What do you think it'll do to a Coyote!

These Myths about the 9mm not scratching stuff need to stop. Let's face it. We shot pretty deadly bullets from our guns.

/rantoff

MICHAEL T
August 6, 2010, 02:03 AM
I see a coyote it will be shot Lost family cat last month to one . No more live and let live

M2 Carbine
August 6, 2010, 02:39 AM
I see a coyote it will be shot Lost family cat last month to one . No more live and let live
Yes years ago I was also "live and let live" until one night two Coyotes backed my three dogs up to the house trying to get the smallest dog. The Coyotes weren't even afraid of me when they first seen me. Too bad I went outside without a gun.
They have and still are killing pets and small livestock around here.
Shoot on sight.


The Governor used a LCP to kill the Coyote that was trying to get his little dog.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/CoyoteSpecialRTside.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/RugerLCP.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/CoyoteSpecialTopside.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/CoyoteSpecialBox.jpg

Lvl21nerd
August 6, 2010, 03:33 AM
there was a shootout at a meth lab around here about 6 months ago, and an innocent bystander was hit by a 9mm in the face from about 40yds away

it hit him right between his upper lip and nose, and just lodged there and didnt really penetrate at all

had it removed and he is doin just fine

or so i was told by a supposed witness...whatever thats worth

like another poster said...if 9mm kills people, its obviously gonna be enough to kill a yote

valorius
August 6, 2010, 06:13 AM
I'd love to get hold of one of those LCP Texas slides and put it on mine. :D

Purgatory
August 6, 2010, 06:36 AM
Not to totally jump track here, but I was ready to buy one of those LCP's back when they were on long waiting lists everywhere. I never heard back from 'em and I kinda' lost interest after hearing about and seeing pics of the ejector issues or metal near ejector or something.

Did they get all that ironed out, I assume, and they're satisfactorily reliable to you?


P.S. I saw a guy on youtube dump a mag as fast as he could at a good 5 yards and, unless they used a stand-in target, I was amazed at how tight the pattern was.

Shadow 7D
August 6, 2010, 06:37 AM
Having been stalked by a pack of coyotes, you can count me as one who would shoot them, they are predators, they have on more than a few occasions lost their fear of humans, even remember a story of some dragging a 2yo out of her yard in So. Cal.

They never strike from the front, there were 3 of us in the group, the biggest weapons we had was a machete and some rocks we picked, up, they got in close, move quickly, blend in with dry grass,

My story, late summer in central Oregon, myself and friends were running in the woods, we stopped a large meadow where several of our trails converged, we heard the coyotes as we got ready to leave and go home, bit of noise to keep us occupied in front, we waited for the ones to our back to get close, maybe 30 feet, then my buddies threw the rock, got one, and did a bluff charge, was a rather unpleasant moment when I realized that I was standing there by myself staring at the guy in front, knowing I had flankers. We were not deep in some uncharted woods, rather we were on the edge of Silver Falls state park, a rather well used park with lots and lots of visitors.

BTW, they are rather light weight dogs, you give up your arm, and either brake their necks, or reach down their throat and tear it out, you will be hit low (legs) from behind, and when you turn, that is when the pack will attack,

If a bunch show up infront and make noise, letting know they are there, they are trying to drive you off. or keep from noticing the rest of the pack, who are probably trying to flank and circle, you need to leave, and be prepared to fight your way out.

And, much like feral dogs, no body will miss afew,

Roughneck08
August 6, 2010, 06:43 AM
Sure enough pasture pups will do harm. Actually have stories of coyotes eating a calf while it was being born from its mother. Luckily we have got the numbers down some in the past few years, but I can remeber them by the droves. Having livestock around and growing up on a ranch we have ALWAYS shot coyotes on sight. Ask a local cattle dairy what they think about yotes. They breed with dogs and the off spring is nasty like a coyote but they aren't afraid of humans we call'em coy dogs.

valorius
August 6, 2010, 06:53 AM
Not to totally jump track here, but I was ready to buy one of those LCP's back when they were on long waiting lists everywhere. I never heard back from 'em and I kinda' lost interest after hearing about and seeing pics of the ejector issues or metal near ejector or something.

Did they get all that ironed out, I assume, and they're satisfactorily reliable to you?


P.S. I saw a guy on youtube dump a mag as fast as he could at a good 5 yards and, unless they used a stand-in target, I was amazed at how tight the pattern was.

All of the LCP's early problems have been addressed. They work great now, mine is a slick little pistol. With Buffalo bore 100gr hard cast flat nose lead +P ammo i suspect it would be highly effective against mountain lions, let alone Coyotes. Probably .380 anything would work well on coyotes, they're just medium sized dogs.

Nasty
August 6, 2010, 07:23 AM
Never run in the woods...makes you look like prey.

The coyote population is increasing locally...we need more varminters.

Shadow 7D
August 6, 2010, 07:32 AM
Um, thanks, the fact that we were 3 kids, maybe 60-70lbs soaking wet, probably didn't help much either. at the time we were siting and shooting the breeze, hence we noticed them, seem the birdies don't like yotes either.

bigmike45
August 6, 2010, 08:07 AM
Here in Texas, the Coyote is looked upon as a "shoot on site" target, for all the reasons listed above, and many more. That being said, they also help control the mouse/rat population. They kill and eat snakes, bad and good. They are a predator and have no distinction as to what their prey is. Like many other predators in the world, they also help control the "weak" in the animal kingdom. Though the attack can be pretty brutal, they do serve a purpose. I personally shoot them on sight when I see them in my particular area. I do not go out and hunt them, but I have accompanied those who do. They have got a real challange on their hands. The Coyote has all the senses that the whitetail deer has and can see movement from a very long distance. It does'nt take much to send them rocketing away.
I personally had a very unnerving experience with Coyotes, three of them to be exact while bowhunting several years ago. I am certainly glad the the Texas CHL allows for the carry of a concealed firearm during Bow Hunting Season, otherwise it is illegal. I was blood tracking a large matriarch doe I had arrowed about 40 minutes earlier. I came around the corner of the sendero and there were the Coyotes, that had also found the blood trail and were doing the same. They were about 20yards ahead of me and had not yet seen me. Unfortunately I stepped on a small oak limb, it snapped and they turned and confronted me. The one in the middle growled and showed his teeth. I shot him in the head a 180gr. JHP from my Ruger GP-100, that I had just drawn from concealment. I also shot one other that was stupid or hungry enough to stay around. The third was out of guaranteed kill range before I could get a bead on him. I found the doe and field dressed her, drug her about 100 yards from the gutpile and hung her high in a tree until I could return with the 4 wheeler. Upon that return I noticed the gutpile was gone and saw many bloody paw prints of what looked like dog paws......

EMC45
August 6, 2010, 09:13 AM
Coyotes, wild dogs, feral house cats, pit vipers...Etc. Etc. Bang, Bang, bang, bang!!!

joe_security
August 6, 2010, 09:26 AM
My dog and I had 2 coyotes cross the road in front of us in a snow storm. On the way back, the same 2 had doubled back, traveled through a wooded area and crossed the road in front of us again. I will never trust them under any circumstances. The local vet says they carry "canine distemper", among other things. The post by valorius is the icing on the cake for me. I keep a 20" 870 loaded with #4 handy, and a .38 in the pocket when dog walking. These things howl at the sirens from Police cars.

butcherboy
August 6, 2010, 09:30 AM
i'll try to cover everyone here:

1. i posted in other sections ( revolver, autoloader, hunting, etc) wanted to get the most input possible. i tend to read the revolver forum alot and not many other ones. figured others may do the same with other forums.

2. i am a farmer ( goats,sheep, horses, chickens, rabbits, cattle, pigs, other foul) in the last 3 weeks we have lost 17 chickens/ducks, 3 sheep.

3. our dogs have been going nuts about 3 in the morning for the last month, so i put in a motion light and waited. sure enough 3:30 light came on and 2 coyotes in our driveway and 1 next to our chicken coop. i have also had them in our yard during the day.
last night while bailing hay i came across 4 of them.

4. i dont go out looking for them , nor do i bait them. if they dont pose a problem at my house i would let them be. the reason for the posts is i dont want to injure/wound i am a believer in a clean kill. if i hit it dies if i miss it walks,no in between.

5. i only hunt when necessary. i have dozens of woodchucks in my fields, weasels, squirrels,other varmints. that have lived there as long as i have. never shot 1, because they are not a problem for me. the only thing i do hunt every year is deer. but im a butcher so all i waste is the white bones. ( and my dogs get them, so no waste.)

hope this paints a better picture of who i am and why i posted the thread in the first place.

and i am a proud peta member ( people eat tasty animals)

Matrix187
August 6, 2010, 12:57 PM
I've never had a problem with coyotes but I am prepared for one. I hear plenty of packs up here in Montana in the woods yelping towards night usually. Wolves are a more serious threat.. I'm not saying coyotes arent a threat though.

Heljac
August 6, 2010, 02:19 PM
I live on 80 acres just two miles from Andover, KS, and I have a 10 yr. old Border Collie who has been attacked and dragged my coyotes 3 effing times in the last 4 years. They've also attacked our three horses. The pack around here about about half and half coyotes and coy dogs. Everyone i knows shoots them on sight. Im sorry that Rotting was offended by our dislike of dangerous and active predators that cause no end of irritation and livestock loss. If I didn't know better I'd assume he lives in some posh California suburb admiring his extensive collection of California-legal Nerf guns.

Mudinyeri
August 6, 2010, 02:19 PM
Here is a much, much better question: Why the hell would you want to shoot a coyote? Have you or anyone that you know or anyone that THEY know ever been attacked or put into an EVEN POTENTIALLY dangerous situation by a coyote? Do you eat coyote?

I would give you 100:1 odds that the answer to those questions is "no."
For a similar reason as shooting feral hogs or prairie dogs or ...? They're pests. They carry disease, kill livestock, apparently attack humans ....

Are you averse to swatting flies and mosquitoes as well?

BTW, a 9mm should do just fine but you might want to consider a nice, lightweight .223 so you can hit them at greater distances. :D

G27RR
August 6, 2010, 02:21 PM
To expand on the LCP question, I bought one of the Coyote Specials a little while back and it is the most reliable .380 I own - zero malfunctions in 200 rounds. (but I shoot the Sig P238 and DB380 better)

As has been said, the Gov. here used a LCP .380 to shoot a coyote, and as I understand it killed it with a single shot - although it did crawl off a bit before dying if I recall correctly. 9mm is plenty if your shot ison target.

Deltaboy
August 6, 2010, 02:22 PM
Yes I have killed many with a 22 Rifles! I am a Shoot on site guy with the Yotes.

valorius
August 6, 2010, 05:10 PM
We don't have many coyotes round my parts, but we have plenty of urban predators here. When i walk the miles and miles of local nature trails in my city with a lovely female companion, my LCP is our constant companion. Makes for the perfect light trail gun IMO. With the right rounds (namely buffalo bore 100gr+P hard cast flat nose lead) and reasonable shot placement a .380 will easily kill anything mountain lion sized or smaller.

I was just reading a story not too long ago of a city dwelling woman that stopped a pit bull attack with a .380 pistol. Shot it 3 times IIRC. I seem to remember the story saying she had an LCP as well, but i'm not sure about that. A big city pitbull is at least as dangerous as a coyote. Probably as dangerous as a mountain lion, for that matter. And more ruggedly built than either.

Storm
August 6, 2010, 05:31 PM
Around here we have a huge number of them. I can hear them yipping, yelping and howling almost every night. It really creeps me when I'm awakened by them in the wee hours. In the cooler months when the leaves are off the trees we watch them chase deer up and down the fairway that is in my back yard. Folks are constantly putting up signs for lost cats. I'd sadly hate to tell them that their cat is most likely scat.

When they are most active I carry a pocket pistol when I take my dog Max out for his evening leak. I carry a Beretta 418 which is .25 ACP. I'm confident that I could do enough damage with it.

I'm sure that bobcats are a risk also, but I've only seen one of them. There is also the occasional black bear, but that is now a rarity as the burbs have swallowed the country.

SharpsDressedMan
August 6, 2010, 07:10 PM
I'm no expert on coyotes, although we have them here in Ohio now, but they are very shy. I have hunted lots of groundhogs with the 9mm, and just about any of the high performance hollow points do well. I would guess that a 90-125 gr JHP at the best velocitiy you get from each will do well. I started shooting groundhogs with the then-new Super Vel 90gr JHP, and bullets have only gotten better since the 1970's. I'd probably use a handload with a Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP with a 115gr on a coyote, if I was going out armed just for that. I usually have a 124-127gr +P load for self defense in my 9's, though, and I'm sure a coyote would respond well to those, too. You just might get more tissue damage with such a light and small animal like a coyote with the higher velocity of the 115grainer.

skimbell
August 6, 2010, 07:30 PM
when im in my fields mowing grass i often have coyotes pop out of the tall grass at under 25 yards away. will a hit with a 9mm do anything to a coyote at that range? handgun is a ruger p95 3.5 barrel. thanks
Who cares?
I'm pretty much in the same boat that you are. For better than 20 years I've seen those miserable dogs tear up deer, turkeys, rabbits, pheasants and just about anything else that they come across on my place. I've shot them with pistols, shotguns, rifles, arrows-anything that I've got at the time, whether I'm mowing, hunting, fencing-whatever I'm doing. I sort of wondered about if a 380, 22, 40 etc. was enough, and then it dawned on me that just putting the lead on them was plenty. Let their buddies have an easy meal that night-who cares? Once the damn thing starts bleeding it's done.
The clown that's running his mouth about "live and let live" with these mongrels hasn't spent much time watching them at work.
Only good coyote's a dead one. End of story.

Purgatory
August 6, 2010, 07:55 PM
Has anyone run those hard cast flat nose .380 rounds in their LCP? That would definitely give it a Plus rating in my book with that option. Especially for being such a small lightweight pistol.

The Lone Haranguer
August 6, 2010, 07:56 PM
If you can hit them (they will be a small target, appearing quickly and moving away from you fast), the 9mm should be quite lethal on these and other animals of similar size.

madwell
August 6, 2010, 08:09 PM
9mm will do the trick. Check your local laws though it may not be legal to use FMJ rounds. As others have said many a song dog has been downed with 22's so a 9mm should be fine.

mcdonl
August 6, 2010, 09:13 PM
The only good coyote is a dead coyote...

Once December rolls around and night time hunting starts back up again I am planning to use my HP 995 w/red light. I can hit anything at about 65 yards... is that still a good distance for a 9mm? I am using cast lead 115g....

valorius
August 6, 2010, 09:32 PM
Has anyone run those hard cast flat nose .380 rounds in their LCP? That would definitely give it a Plus rating in my book with that option. Especially for being such a small lightweight pistol.
I have not personally, but i have read of others who said they did on various forums. When i had a Kel Tec P32 (almost the exact same design as the LCP) i did use the equivalent Buffalo Bore 75gr+P hard cast lead flat nose loading, it was quite snappy, but the pistol handled them fine. However in .32acp the short buffalo bore rounds tended to rim lock even with a spacer kit in the magazine, so i was restricted to carrying the chamber rd and top rd of the mag with Buffalo Bore, and then the rest of the mag with slightly longer Corbon JHPs(they fit the mag perfect with the Kel Tec spacer kit installed). Honestly, i suspect even that little .32acp with it's 14.5" gel penetration (goldenloki tests) would easily kill a coyote too.

Currently i've run 102gr Golden Saber, 90gr Fed Hydrashok, 80gr Corbon DPX+P, 95gr Geco FMJ(this could probably be considered "+P" ammo by US standards) as well as a variety of loose FMJ i had sitting in a closet for years through my LCP and it fires all of it just fine. I've got probably 200rds through it so far.

I plan to pick up some of the Buffalo Bore 100gr+P hard cast flat nose .380 at some point myself. It's really hot, i think it almost hits 300fpe of energy out of a Sig 232...that's standard pressure .38spl like energy, and darned near standard pressure 9mm para level energy. It'll be a bit lower out of a 2.75" Ruger Barrel, but not that much lower. It should easily eclipse 20" of gel penetration and leave a nice semi-wadcutter type wound tract.

Storm
August 6, 2010, 09:32 PM
While we are on the topic of coyotes, I have three hundred or so feet of five foot steel high fence enclosing part of my backyard due to a pool. I let the pooch out back feeling confident that a coyote could never jump it. Any idea whether a coyote could jump it? As each rail, about six inches apart, has a spiked finial, I'm half expecting something to eventually be impaled. If there is a risk that a coyote might get within the perimeter I would be inclined to keep a rifle handy.

Purgatory
August 6, 2010, 10:23 PM
5 feet doesn't sound like too much of a challenge for a wild, agile, lightweight and very motivated canis lupus, BUT, I haven't seen the fence and I'm certainly not an expert.

I'd keep SOMEthin' handy if they frequent the other side of the fence, be it 5 feet or TEN feet. Just in case. ;)

Yes, Val, I took a good look at the hard cast flat nose 9mm and .45 that they make. Seems ideal for a jaunt in the wild n wooly woods, if my Glocks would run 'em reliably. If not, I'd rather stuff 'em with ANYthing else that I KNEW would run. Rather have somethin measly that I know will cycle and fire than kryptonite depleted uranium that won't even chamber. :D

Lvl21nerd
August 6, 2010, 10:32 PM
just remembered something i gotta share:

first of all, i have never spotted a coyote anywhere near where i live
BUT, i believe i have heard them or maybe coydogs, or probably both

a couple years ago i was taking out some trash to our can at about 10-11pm, and everything was really quiet...then i started hearing ' yip yeep yip ' directly across the road from our house...a distance of no more than 100 feet

had never heard this before, and honestly didnt think anything of it for a few secs...until i noticed that my many dogs were totally silent...and they bark at pretty much anything...thats when the hair on the back of my neck stood up

i made for the house double-quick since it was totally pitch black outside and i didnt have any sort of weapon on me...and if my dogs werent gonna bark at these things, thats something all together special...

1SOW
August 6, 2010, 10:37 PM
Nushif: I've got some experience with the 'airborn' 105mm myself. :-)

At over 1000'/sec a marble will kill a coyote. A hollowpoint bullet will do it more thoroughly.

Storm
August 6, 2010, 10:39 PM
There has never been anything on the other side of the five foot fence other than one wiley bobcat. Not even deer get in and we are thick with them with many tastey morsels inside the perimeter, but yeah, a motivated coyote....

I'm thinking that I may now have the perfect use for my PS90 or FN FiveSeven. Good advice. Thanks. Be prepared.

HGUNHNTR
August 6, 2010, 10:42 PM
Sheesh, coyotes aren't evil creatures, they are opportunists that are trying to survive. Sometimes pets, barnyard animals, etc make their way into their diet big deal. These creatures are dealing the hand they were dealt--encroachment upon their habitat. I love hunting coyotes, but I never mistake one for a bloodthirsty murderer.

Purgatory
August 6, 2010, 10:55 PM
Keep that FiveSeven handy, you'll be JUST fine. Effective range of that thing is arguably PLENTY.

Shadow 7D
August 6, 2010, 11:25 PM
Storm the 6" opening might not be close enough, and have you considered that they can just dig a little and belly under the fence.

Storm
August 6, 2010, 11:48 PM
My 22 pound Lhasa won't fit, but the digging might be an issue, but fortunately this is hard Georgia clay. I check for that on a regular basis. And while the range of the coyote has gone far beyond what it should have often encroaching into urban areas, I'm a live and let live kinda guy, but if comes to my dog Max (or my cat Iggy who is a house cat who does escape once in awhile) anything inside that fence is gone if there is a situation. Even Iggy the cat stays inside the fence. The 5-7 is the way to go.

I'm not at all interested in killing anything unless I have to.

gordy
August 7, 2010, 12:31 AM
Why do you ask the same question in the revolver thread, But you use a 22mag?

hot357lead
August 7, 2010, 01:59 PM
as some one with coyote problems most of my life i can tell you that 9mm(along with a slew of other calibers) has been doing the job for me for years of coyote issues, i dont want tho hear there not a problem i have been nearly attacked many times in the past (only nearly because i heard/saw them and killed them) i lost both of my first dogs as a kid to coyotes, my family's old farm had lost tons of chickens, ducks, etc. unless we did a good job eradicating them that year, heck just a few months ago they got my poor cat ON MY PORCH! (still stained)they get into trash, i could keep going. no don't just kill them on sight, get your friends over and eradicate them (have a small contest most kills gets a case of beer)!!! on another note im currently using a ruger p95 stainless while walking my dogs, doing daily outdoor tasks, etc. but i have had no issues using fmj to slaughter the suckers, and if you or any friends skin 'em you can fetch at least 25-40 for a good fur around, and about eating them...um yeah there stringy, very gamey, not the best tasting, and there's not much meat, some if not most of em are wormy+your pretty much eating dog not the best sounding thing eh? i generally dont recommend it but into hunting them, they are fun to hunt just remember they can be dangerous ('duh) but if your into predator hunting it can be enjoyable, for me its really a task i have done since childhood but it is fun :)...by the way if they absolutely positively have to die...12 gauge slugs can be pretty darned nasty, im pretty sure there's a youtube video out there of this but its almost over kill especially for something a well placed .22 round will drop on the spot (most of the time)

valorius
August 7, 2010, 02:09 PM
Once December rolls around and night time hunting starts back up again I am planning to use my HP 995 w/red light. I can hit anything at about 65 yards... is that still a good distance for a 9mm? I am using cast lead 115g....
The carbine at 65yds probably has more velocity than a pistol at the muzzle.

Purgatory
August 7, 2010, 02:50 PM
as some one with coyote problems most of my life

There's GOTTA be some better lookin women around there SOMEwhere. :uhoh:

JUST JOSHIN YA!

Sounds like you've been at war with those Hell Hounds all your life, man.
I would definitely be poppin 'em with whatever was handy every chance I got in that situation. Especially if they'd taken ANY of my pets. Not to mention MANY pets.

I'd probably carry somethin like a Glock 20 if it was a question of possibly seein 'em every time I left the house. Not that you'd need 10mm for coyote, but it'd be nice to know that, at almost any range, you'd have the upper hand and especially if there's packs of em that prevalent.

Almost sounds like fun to have an ongoing war with those cunning targets runnin around at all times. But it's not fun when they're destroying pets and livestock, I'm certain.

valorius
August 7, 2010, 03:29 PM
No fun when they're murdering beautiful 19 year old Canadian folk singers either. :(

http://www.themorningstarr.co.uk/images/young-musician-killed-by-coyotes/taylor-mitchell.jpg
Taylor Josephine Stephanie Luciow- killed by coyotes while hiking

hot357lead
August 7, 2010, 03:31 PM
yeah, sometimes it can be fun and i have some pretty good memories from hunting them, but on the other hand they can cause some serious $$$ loss and not to mention my poor cat and my dear old dogs:(...but yeah this is a funny coincidence, i have been considering a 10mm lately but last time i went to look at one i walked out the door with a browning hi power clone in 9mm. i figure 10mm could be a very good multi purpose caliber but id definitely be getting a set or reloading dies with the gun. but when it comes to fall/winter or anytime i might have a longer range shot, its definitely my old 357i'm carrying, or a rifle ...usually my wasr10:evil: but as long as there not causing an imminent threat aka within 100yards of the house they are extremely fun to hunt gotta make the best of a bad situation lol... especially when moving is not an option

jim243
August 7, 2010, 03:42 PM
With all due respect to everyone, none of us are that good a shot under pressure. And they will sneak up on you, they are natural born hunters, we are not.

9 mm will eventually kill them but you will need 3 or more hits to stop one charging at you. 357 mag, 357 Sig, 45 ACP, 44 mag or 45 LC is what you will need (158 grain bullet or larger) to stop them dead in their tracks. These are dangerous animals they can take down deers, cows, moose and yes people. Best use is a 12 gauge, 30-30, 270, 30-06 car, van or truck 4 wheel perferable. Kill them whereever and whenever you see them. If they are stalking your neighborhood someone's child or pet will get killed.

If PETA has a problem with this, that's too bad, they are idots anyways.

valorius
August 7, 2010, 03:52 PM
9mm "+P+" is the ballistic equal of many .357 magnum loads.

Storm
August 7, 2010, 04:04 PM
The problem is that many of us live within city limits where a firearm cannot be discharged so shoot on sight is out of the question. They roam free with no predators to control their numbers.

Shadow 7D
August 7, 2010, 04:16 PM
You can feed the PETA people to the city coyotes, it solves both problems, eventually when all the PETA people are eaten, you have nobody to complain whey you remove the now slow and fat coyotes.

jim243
August 7, 2010, 04:22 PM
No fire arms, no problem. Bait them with posion (sorry dog you ate the wrong stuff), live trap them and call animal control (see how much help you don't get). Drive the cage out into the country and shoot them in the head with a 22 mag (that will work). Use a cross bow, or your hunting bow (help you get ready for deer season.)

I still think the car across the middle of their back is the best way, if it's between replacing a head light or my daughter, my vote goes to replacing the head light.

Jim

Prosser
August 7, 2010, 07:15 PM
Drove up to the gunshop yesterday. Saw a beautiful yote in the middle of the road, dead, but not road killed. I was considering checking, and putting a 9mm 147 grain bullet in it's head, to make sure it was dead, but thought better of it.
The head is so small, and so was the body, I don't really think you have a real good chance of hitting one with a pistol.

How is pepper or bear spray on these animals?

Also, in my limited experience, without a really good hit, wild animals can be REAL hard to kill.

I'd rather have a yote around then rats. We have either fox or coyote here, (can't tell which?) but it wouldn't let me get within 140 yards of it on the golf course.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/FOX/foxclearpictureJacks121406002-1.jpg

I tried to brace on a tree and get closer with the telephoto, but, it heard me, jumped sideways about 8 feet up and into the bushes on the left.

Mountain lions here too.

Put a cat scratcher outside for a local domestic cat, and the next day it looked like this:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/BIG%20CATS/BIGkitty0065.jpg
Wonder how big the claws were that did that?

:what:

rtpzwms
August 7, 2010, 09:48 PM
Never used a 9mm on one but I think it would be more than enough at 25 yards. I don't have the need to shoot on sight but I'm not loosing live stock to them either. Don't get me wrong I have killed a couple but I like using a heavy projectile say about a 2000 lbs Chevy or a 1500 lbs Mazda. Rabbits, coyotes, squirrels, mice, snakes and anything else that runs into my path at 60mph! Bump Bump and its all over!:what: But if I was looking for one I think I might take out a mini 14/30 light easy fast and a little better range than a 9mm.:D

daveit
August 7, 2010, 10:06 PM
There are mountain lions where I hike here in Colorado...I like to think my Glock 17/26 with +p+ could stop one. From what I hear though, they can sneak up on you pretty easily.

Boris bush
August 7, 2010, 10:59 PM
9mm will do the trick. Check your local laws though it may not be legal to use FMJ rounds. As others have said many a song dog has been downed with 22's so a 9mm should be fine.

I was thinking, oh wait, I have seen more than alot drop to a 22rf. How on earth anyone thinks a 9mm will not take care of one.........

johnnylaw53
August 8, 2010, 08:01 AM
Wasnt it in Texas that a mayor or govoner shot one with an LCP? I think if a .380 will do the job, a 9 mm will just do it a little better

It was in Texas our great Gov. Rick Perry was out running with his dog and the coyote was a danger to his small dog, so he shot him with his Ruger LCP with laser. Got to LOve Texas.

be safe

Nushif
August 8, 2010, 02:55 PM
9 mm will eventually kill them but you will need 3 or more hits to stop one charging at you.

HOLY COW! What do you hunt pigeons with?! A 12 Gauge slug?!

I understand that people want to put their prey down with one shot, but at some point you do have to look at realism. That is a *65 pound* ish, esque Coyote, not a massive charging elk about to wreck your car.

The 9mm round can kill 200 pound humans. WHY are we doubting its performance on something that is almost one quarter of its size.

Following that logic I could use nothing short of a .50 cal to pop at cans, just to be sure they actually move when I hit them.

SharpsDressedMan
August 8, 2010, 04:54 PM
Coyote are medium sized dogs. They are usually very shy dogs, and not known to be as savagely brutal as pitbulls when they DO attack. In all the cases of I have known of when coyotes were shot with anything bigger than a .22 rimfire, they wanted to get away, not turn on the person shooting them like a wounded bear. I think 9mm and such (9mm, .38 Super, .357, etc) in a handgun is just right for coyotes.

jim243
August 8, 2010, 05:43 PM
Your not shooting at 200 lbs of flab that needs a car to get cigs (I can drop that with one 9mm to the head). But 60 or 70 lbs of mussle with big sharp teeth and sharp claws and who's only thought is "What's for lunch". And they do not work alone.

But once your heart starts racing and blood starts pounding in your head (when you become the hunted instead of the hunter), lets see how good you can shoot. About 45 years ago I was squarel hunting with a 22 LR and a nice friendly copper head desided to make my aquantice, after making the longest long jump from a standing start I have ever made in my life, I emptied a full mag at it. I am not sure who was more scared, me or the snake. But ever since then I carry a side arm with snake shot in it when going hunting.

Unless you are hunting yotes, you are not going to see them untill they are 15 to 20 FEET away (or too far away to shot with a handgun). Get a 12 gauge, it works better than empting a 17 round 9mm mag at THEM.

Stay safe
Jim

By the way that's a nice picture of the Fox.

valorius
August 8, 2010, 05:49 PM
Not everyone crumbles under pressure jim.

jim243
August 8, 2010, 06:22 PM
When you get supprised by something you weren't expecting that would take your life, you can come back and tell us how well you did.


Like I said, Stay safe.
Jim

Prosser
August 8, 2010, 06:38 PM
I'm with jim243 on this. Fox, coyote big cats, good luck.

They are SO quick, if they are coming your chances of hitting them are REALLY not good.
The fox above was gone in a blink of an eye, from a feeding position, when I adjusted the camera against a tree to steady it, very slowly.

On the otherhand, once they latch on to you, you would have a stuff muzzle against, and pull trigger situation. For that, I'd like something bigger then 9mm, because I would not like having him on my arm for two shots, or more.

Besides, if you are out in the woods, most places around here that have coyotes have bigger stuff, like mountain lions, feral pigs, etc., and I'm not real sure 9mm is ideal for those.

Quick cat story:
We went to the Honolulu zoo, my ex-wife and myself. We were looking at a female lioness, about 10 feet from us, through a chain link fence I KNOW she could jump if she wanted to.
As we are looking at her, a seagull lands, maybe 10 feet in front of her. She tucks, getting ready to pounce. From the time I saw the tuck, I wanted to get my camera up to take a picture.
She tucked, jumped, jaws snapped, and nothing but feathers left of the seagull. The cat and the canary.
I did not have time to move, period. I never got my hand moving to the camera in the time it took that lion to attack and kill the seagull. Now, imagine a pride of about 10, in close quarters, hunting
the same cape buffalo you are...
My ex threw her cookies up in a bush, right after that. I wanted to kiss the lioness.;-)

valorius
August 8, 2010, 06:40 PM
When you get supprised by something you weren't expecting that would take your life, you can come back and tell us how well you did.


Like I said, Stay safe.
Jim
What makes you think i or others haven't?

Prosser if an animal is coming AT you, it is presenting a zero lead shot, and is in essence a stationary target if you drop immediately into a kneeling position for your shot(s).

Center mass becomes it's head.

A hard shot with all that adrenaline, yes. But certainly doable. Many, many, many men throughout history have made that exact shot in a time of crisis.

A 9mm doubletap will kill a pig or mountain lion or a 300lb felon. Many 9mm+P loads on the market are the ballistic equivalent of .357 magnum. There are some deep penetrating 9mm loads that will punch through 36-40"+ of gelatin too.

jim243
August 8, 2010, 06:47 PM
I know others have one's my best friend, ok so what's your story? (you would make a terrable poker player.)

Jim


PS: Except for the LCP, I like your choice of weapons.


"Many 9mm+P loads on the market are the ballistic equivalent of .357 magnum."

No they are NOT, not even close and I have yet to see a 158 grain 9mm bullet, which is considered a light hunting load for the 357 Mag.

valorius
August 8, 2010, 07:08 PM
I don't play poker.

Most people do not consider 158gr to be the preferred defensive round in .357 mag anyway, they consider it to be 125gr. Many also like the lighter 110gr hollowpoints. 9mm+P+ ammunition is very competitive in energy and velocity with those .357 magnum bullet weights, and is a dead ballistic clone to the defense oriented "reduced recoil" type .357 magnum loads on the market. So YES, they are. :)

And 9mm 147gr+P flat nose jacketed solids at 1150fps will punch through 40+" of gelatin.

Why don't you like the LCP? It's not perfect, but it's a slick little pistol for what it is.

Prosser
August 8, 2010, 07:14 PM
Jim243:
Tim Sundles loads a Plus P 38 with a 158 grain bullet, at 1040 out of my snubby.
I use a 147 grain .357 Fioochi for SD, @ 1131 fps out of my snubby.
Out of that same gun, Corbon 125 grains do 1204 fps. THAT is about the only place
a 9mm comes close: 125 grain loads can be near the same velocity, provided the barrel on the .357 is less then 3" long.
Out of the PM9, I use 147 grain Federal HST. IIRC they go about 940 fps?
Seems to me some of the machinegun 9mm ball ammo is near .357, but out of a machine gun...

valorius
August 8, 2010, 07:17 PM
Many 9mm+P+ 115gr loads outright out energy and out velocity lightweight 110gr .357 mag loads (the kinds preferred for defense), and the best 9mm+P+ loads are just ever so slightly slower (or lighter) than the legendary 125gr .357 magnum SJHP load.

Top energy performer in 9mm is the Doubletap 115gr+P JHP at 1415fps and 515fpe of energy. Both Buffalo Bore and Corbon also make 115gr/500fpe energy loads. The legendary 125gr Federal/Remington load is 125gr at 1450fps. Obviously, these are all very similar in both power and velocity.

500fpe of energy is .357 magnum energy levels, all day long.

No one is trying to say that 9mm is the equivalent to full house 180gr hunting loads in .357 magnum, but the defense loads are very close in energy and velocity levels.

Prosser try 100gr Corbon 9mm Powrball+P out of your PM-9, it'll be close to 1400fps even out of that short barrel. (and 1500fps out of 5" guns). The load you're using right now is going to give you about the lowest possible energy level in 9mm. Probably barely even 300fpe of energy. You basically turn your 9mm into a .38spl with that load.

Edit: i just did the math, that Fed HST load at the velocity you listed is only making 288fpe of energy. Assuming Powrball could turn 1400fps from your PM-9, you're looking at about 435fpe of energy- that's snubnosed .357 magnum level energy.

Prosser
August 8, 2010, 07:21 PM
http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/9mm%20US%20M882.jpg

How about 27"?

With lesser calibers, like 9mm, energy doesn't kill, because penetration is the real problem, and shot placement. The San Diego PD
have been using that 147 grain HST, and, they have had excellent results. Perhaps because I like
big game caliber guns, I'm always concerned about penetration with service caliber guns. I have one magazine
with American Eagle 147 grain Flatpoints at 940 fps.

Anyway, here is a link showing what kind of velocities you can get out of a PM 9:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_GUNS0710.html

Here is one with the Corbon: it goes 1151 fps, which is pretty good.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_ch0809.html

Off to the gun store.

jim243
August 8, 2010, 07:22 PM
Thanks Prosser

I use both the 147 grain 9mm and the 158 grain 357. You had me going there for a min. trying to figure out how you were getting a .357 bullet out of a .355 gun untill I realize you were taking about a 38 spl.

How do you like the 158s out of you P 38, I have a SP-101 I would like to try the 158s in?

Thanks
Jim

valorius
August 8, 2010, 07:28 PM
http://www.firearmstactical.com/imag...0US%20M882.jpg

How about 27"?
That chart lists m882 NATO ball. A round like the Doubletap 147gr+P FMJ- flat nose at 1150fps and 420fpe of energy that was designed specifically for deep penetration in a trail defense scenario is going to punch much deeper. IIRC it was over 40"+ penetration gel in some test i saw some time back.

jim243
August 8, 2010, 07:57 PM
Valorius

You don't want your bullet to go through what you are shooting, You want it to expend all of it's energy within your target. Fast 9mm will go completely through whatever you are shooting at. Smaller wound channel and less damage. (that's not good) It has been the age old argument between 9mm vs 45 ACP which is better. Like you for 40 years I too was a 9mm fan and wanted a entry wound and a exit wound to cause a lung to calapse and creating a sucking wound. But un-fortunely real life is not like the movies. So today I want whatever I shoot to drop dead and stay dead. That is done by mass not speed. The largest trama I can impart on a target (yes a 50 Action Express would be better, but is too large a gun to carry around, ie Desert Eagle).

I can push a 125 grain JHP in 357 mag to 1,506 fps with 22 grains of Hodgdon H110 powder and a 110 grain JHP in 357 mag to 1,693 fps. But what's the point a 180 grain JHP in 357 at 1100 fps will do the job better and will result in the animal dropping on the spot.(I hate having to look for the kill).

The first rule of hunting (well maybe not the first) is shot placement, the second is hit it with a Mac truck not a Fiat.

By the way take up poker, you would like it.

Jim

valorius
August 8, 2010, 07:59 PM
The whole "expend its energy in the target" theory was debunked many years ago my friend. And honestly, with an exit wound, there are twice as many places for your target to bleed from.

Fast 9mm tends to penetrate less because it expands so violently, by the way. The fastest 9mm JHP on the market is the 100gr Corbon Powrball at 1475fps advertised. It averages 12+" penetration in gel in most if not all of the FBI barrier tests.

Maybe my favorite load in 9mm is Doubletap 124gr+P firing Gold Dot JHPs at 1310fps advertised (Browning Hi power).
That's good for about 490fpe of energy, and has tremendous results in the gel tests i've seen. 13.25" avg penetration and .70" average expansion.

Either of those rounds would jack a coyote up right there on the spot with decent placement.

The bigger 147gr+P FMJ Flat nose trail defense round is designed specifically for deep penetration against big nasty critters.

I like to play with the ladies, i guess that's a form of poker... ;)

jim243
August 8, 2010, 08:03 PM
That is totaly dependant on the distance and the speed it hits the target at.

Jim

rfwobbly
August 8, 2010, 09:24 PM
Ahem.... This harmless coyote question is sounding remarkably like the Timothy Treadwell story. Mr Treadwell, a self appointed bear "expert", lived 13 seasons among the bears in Alaska. During the "off season" he worked a speaking tour and made quite a bit of money telling people how harmless brown bears were. One day, oddly enough while his video cameras were recording, his "pals" dropped over for lunch. Apparently Mr Treadwell and his girl friend were both on the menu.

Read it yourself at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Treadwell

All carnivorous animals, no matter how cute, are dangerous. They are just like stocks and bonds in that, "past activity is no indicator of future performance." If they do not attack it's because they have weighed the risks versus their hunger and have decided against it. As coyotes become more common in urban settings, and food sources start to dry up, we will surely hear about more and more attacks on humans. There can be no other course.

However, I'm a freedom loving, pro-2A, conservative and so of course I prefer to look at the brighter, more optimistic side. The reason the Founding Fathers didn't have trouble with liberals during the first 100 years was that all the "animal lovers" were eaten by bears, coyotes, or mountain lions. Personally, I'm praying for a big bear, coyote and mountain lion revival in California, New York and Massachusetts. What could be more "natural" ??

:rolleyes:

MYREDTAIL
August 8, 2010, 11:34 PM
Let me say this about Coyote's, Here in NY State the coyote population has exploded within the last 10 yr's, the DEC had footage of a few coyote den's where camera's were place to keep tab's on their population & they found that at every Den there were skelton remains of apx 100 fawn & full grown Deer bones etc, What does this tell us hunters of why we are not seeing the good heard's of buck's & doe's anymore ? Sure the Coyote's have to eat to & they are natures predator's, but they are also Glutton's not only eating the deer they attack you, your cat's or dog's etc whatever? the DEC told us even though there is a hunting season on Coyotes here in NYS from Oct 1st to March 31 st if you see them shoot them even out of season to try to control their population, that was good enough for me, I love calling. baiting & hunting ol'e wiley, to cut down on their numbers,It's a great hunting pastime, & as coyote hunter's will tell you their not easy to hunt, they are sharp, & have keen sences, & are smart thinker's that can see far better & read the wind current's better than any human that I know.That's it on Coyote's in the nutshell, If anyone has photo's of their coyote kill's please post them for all to see & enjoy, & tell us what equiptment that you used to hunt them with. ? :evil::D P.S. Our state here does not allow, Any handgun's to be carried on you during the Bow hunting season here, This is the time when the coyote's are most active, So what are you going to do with an arrow & a pack of coyote's lurking near by, When you are bow hunting,A stupid law about no handguns during the bow season. after all I am not dumb enough to shoot a deer with a gun during the Bow season, & loose my hunting privilige's for life. ?

GLOOB
August 9, 2010, 01:34 AM
I was squarel hunting with a 22 LR and a nice friendly copper head desided to make my aquantice, after making the longest long jump from a standing start I have ever made in my life, I emptied a full mag at it. I am not sure who was more scared, me or the snake. But ever since then I carry a side arm with snake shot in it when going hunting.
The funny thing about snake shot to me, and which is highlighted by this incident, is this:

That snake was just passing by. Once you made your standing long jump, you were safe. After that, your best option if'n you still felt like you were in danger woulda been to... jump again! Distance = safety. There's no venomous snake in North America that will chase after you.

If you're out to eradicate snakes from your property/campsite/etc, then yeah, buy shot shells. But for defense against snakes? I don't get it. If the thing sits still, I'll shoot it with a regular bullet by aiming. If it's moving, it'll be going the other direction.

Prosser
August 9, 2010, 02:55 AM
jim243:
The 158's go 1040 out of my 360PD. They recoil at least as much as the .357 Magnum Fioochi, 147's at 1131 fps. I'd feel pretty good about either one out of my snub.

valorius:
You have a point. I should order some double tap ammo. HST is actually one of the better SD 9mm ammos out there, according to a number of sources. Pretty quick, good expansion, and hard to get. I got a bunch, cheap.

jim243: I don't buy the bullet in target stuff. My theory is you want a bullet that is heavy enough to expand, and, not slow down as it blows through the entire intended target. I believe the heavy calibers, .454, .475, .500, and .500 Max Linebaughs are REALLY devastating with cast LFN's because not only do they blow two holes in the target, they don't slow down much as they go through, and turn bone into projectiles as well.

That said, I've got a .475 Linebaugh 275 grain bullet that, when it expands, expands to 1.35", or 2 bore rifle size:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/quartersand275grainbullet.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/expanded475275grainbullet.jpg

This is my new woods gun:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/FA83500JRH852010/DSC_0032.jpg
The top gun is my .475 Linebaugh, the lil girl is new, in .500 JRH, 440 grains @ 950 fps, or, 425's at 1350 fps.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/FA83500JRH852010/GIRLS3LEFTPS852010copy.jpg
I'm looking forward to working up some Hawk HP loads for the .500. Anyway, in the short term, most have said the .500 JRH, with cast bullets, hits like a .375 rifle, or, actually better. Thing is, with these guns, the bullets are already .475 or bigger. The low pressure 275 grain linebaugh speer bullet averages about 1550 fps out of my gun.

Wonder what that would do to a coyote?:evil:

Boris bush
August 9, 2010, 03:20 AM
The deepest penetrating 9x19mm load I have ever used is the Fiocchi 158 grain ball at 940fps.

Got close enough to some medium sized critters to know you can end to end one with them. Thats in the front and out the back. It is the ONLY 9x19mm load I have NEVER recoverd a bullet after a shot. I aint talking wetpack, gello or water filled milk jugs either.

The privi 158 ball is alot slower. Stick with the Fiocchi 158 ball if you want real penetration from a 9mm. M882 is good but it will yaw after a bit of penetration. The 158 Fiocchi punches straight and deep. And yes it kills coyotes just fine..

Some of you guys need to go do a little nature watching while guarding your chickens waiting for robbers looking for a free meal. Lots can be learned about what works against what one thinks.

wriggly
August 9, 2010, 03:28 AM
My dog was attacked by a coyote 10 years ago in an urban setting while walking on a leash. The coyote was skinny, weighed no more than 35 pounds. While they were fighting, I kicked the coyote in the ribs, and it did not even stop or hesitate in its attack for a second. I reached down and grabbed it by its rear legs, and it turned and grabbed my left hand, but I hung on to it, and swung it up and over my head in an arc and smashed its head on the pavement. It was like God smacked it. It arched its back and quivered, pissed, **** and died.

My dog was ok except for a small cut on top of his snout, my left hand had three deep punctures, two on top and one on the bottom on the palm. It was very painfull, but I did not seek medical attention, because I was afraid they would quarantine my dog. I took a risk, and it worked in my favor.

My dog lived to be 13 years old, and my hand healed without complications. If I lived in a rural area and coyotes were problematic, I would have no compunction against killing them.

By the way....my screen name! That was my dog, Wriggly. He was a brave loyal companion, and I miss him all the time.

valorius
August 9, 2010, 08:31 AM
Great story about you and your beloved dog, bro.

An easy solution is to select a dog that would look at the Coyote as the meal...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/m21sniper/Faust.jpg
My long since departed champion blood line Dobie named "Faust." All 105lbs of him. You're looking at the only part of the car he didn't eat... ;)

Davek1977
August 9, 2010, 08:40 AM
Here is a much, much better question: Why the hell would you want to shoot a coyote? Have you or anyone that you know or anyone that THEY know ever been attacked or put into an EVEN POTENTIALLY dangerous situation by a coyote? Do you eat coyote? I've never been personally attacked, but grew up on a ranch that raised cattle, with neighbors to the east that raised sheep. Coyotes are a constant issue with the sheep, and, to a lesser degree, are a problem with the cattle, especially during calving season. When my family's bottom line is being directly affected by coyote depredation, you can bet I'll shoot...or more precisely...ATTEMPT to shoot every coyote I encounter, whether I'm packing a 9mm, a .22 lr, a.17 hmr, A .243 or my 7 MAG....a calf is worth several hundred dollars potentially. I'm not going to simply feed them to the local coyote population.


There are still some of us who raise livestock, Rotting, and the threat of coyote depredation is entirely real, and not some paranoid fantasy. believe it or not, your hammburger doesn't ORIGNINATE in the local grocery store.....my family, or one like it, raised that beef, and in doing so, protected it from predators. The further removed people get from the realities of farm and ranch life and ruiral living, the more situaitons like this one will come up. I hate to say it, but theres very few people with any real rural connection anymore. The ideas of where our food comes from is becoming lost on entire generations. The reality of rural life is simply incomprehensible for the average city dweller anymore.

joe_security
August 9, 2010, 10:13 AM
Davek1977, nice post. I fully agree with you. Valorius, nice Dobie. Im sure you enjoyed having him.

alpha6164
August 9, 2010, 11:22 AM
My only problem with killing coyotes is they look too much like my huskies :(

Ben86
August 9, 2010, 11:46 PM
9mm will do just fine for coyote, and can even take white tail deer cleanly with premium ammo.

If that's the way you think, and apply that logic to everything else you do in life, you'd never buy milk at a grocery store for fear of a botulism outbreak, never drive a car for fear of a 18-wheeler crossing the highway and colliding with you head-on, or, more to the point - would spend every waking hour hunting down every bobcat, mountain lion, bear, coyote, fox, wolf, etc. within a 25 mile radius of your and every of your family member's houses.

By that same logic you would never take preemptive action against any threat. You will wait until something happens and then act to stop it from happening again. That's not good enough for me. I won't wait for one of my pets or family members to get hurt. I know that any coyote within 300 yards of my house is up to no good. Given the chance I will shoot it. I will kill any venomous snake within 100 yards of my house because I don't want them there, period. I place the safety of my family and pets above all else.

Coyotes are cunning, dangerous, vicious animals and should be treated as such. Just a few years ago I had 8 ducks massacred by coyotes at the pond in front of my house (about 100 yards away). If they come around your house they are looking for food, count on it. Don't get caught up in tree hugging ideology and ignore the danger of wild life that doesn't keep its proper distance.

SIGLBER
August 10, 2010, 03:24 AM
Years ago I owned a place out in the sticks and several acres. Used to like to walk my land at night. Had one of the old 5 cell flashlights and either a .357 or 9mm on me. Had more trouble with feral dogs traveling in packs than coyotes. Either one put them down fine with a head shot. Very seldom required more than one round.

GLOOB
August 11, 2010, 01:32 AM
9mm is probably fine for SD. If you're primarily out to thin the pack where the opportunity arises (varminting vs. defense), you could do with even less. Consider carrying w/e gives you the most range on coyote-sized vitals, whether that's your favorite .357 revolver or a .22 target pistol.

Prosser
August 11, 2010, 03:13 PM
"

i'll try to cover everyone here:

1. i posted in other sections ( revolver, autoloader, hunting, etc) wanted to get the most input possible. i tend to read the revolver forum alot and not many other ones. figured others may do the same with other forums.

2. i am a farmer ( goats,sheep, horses, chickens, rabbits, cattle, pigs, other foul) in the last 3 weeks we have lost 17 chickens/ducks, 3 sheep.

3. our dogs have been going nuts about 3 in the morning for the last month, so i put in a motion light and waited. sure enough 3:30 light came on and 2 coyotes in our driveway and 1 next to our chicken coop. i have also had them in our yard during the day.
last night while bailing hay i came across 4 of them.

4. i dont go out looking for them , nor do i bait them. if they dont pose a problem at my house i would let them be. the reason for the posts is i dont want to injure/wound i am a believer in a clean kill. if i hit it dies if i miss it walks,no in between.

5. i only hunt when necessary. i have dozens of woodchucks in my fields, weasels, squirrels,other varmints. that have lived there as long as i have. never shot 1, because they are not a problem for me. the only thing i do hunt every year is deer. but im a butcher so all i waste is the white bones. ( and my dogs get them, so no waste.)

hope this paints a better picture of who i am and why i posted the thread in the first place. "

Given this picture, shouldn't you really be using a rifle?

That said, 3.5" barrel should give you enough velocity to use some of those high velocity, light bullet hollow points.

Something like this:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=118

115 grains around 1300 fps out of your gun should knock them down, and, you should be able to get close enough to finish em.

The coyotes I've seen have all been road kill, but, not very big. 8-10 inches of penetration should be enough, I would think.

valorius
August 11, 2010, 04:33 PM
The 158gr Fiocchi FMJ is a good round (Euro ammo is typically loaded +P standards, even though they make no such distinction). The only reason i prefer the DT 147gr+P load is because it has a flat nose design.

Boris bush
August 11, 2010, 04:44 PM
I have yet to try the DT 147+P. The only reason is I have had good results with the 158 on a few critter encounters. These rounds just plain penetrate.

Now I will admit when I flipped over a box of AE at Cabelas the other day I was a little thrown off to see the velocity was 1150fps. Two of my fellow 9mm believers have fired this ammo and have told me they are indeed hotter than normal 147s. At $14.99 a box of 50 I might go get me some. Cann't hurt any... It has the flat point too.

valorius
August 11, 2010, 04:56 PM
1150fps is sizzling for 147gr 9mm. The DT load is advertised at 1135fps and about 420fpe of energy.

Prosser
August 11, 2010, 06:27 PM
Do you really need deep penetration on a coyote? They are tiny.

Boris bush
August 11, 2010, 06:46 PM
Do you really need deep penetration on a coyote? They are tiny.

On a Texas heart shot some 9mm loads might not penetrate deep enough and cause a wound that will kill very slow and might motivate it to attack someone if they come up on a half dead coyote. I shot a few yotes on the run in the behind and knowing the ball I carry 95% of the time I am out on the farms will get the job done plenty good enough for any shot I might take on vermin. The 158s I use from time to time will end to end a yote. I have seen other ball loads not fully penetrate on such shots. I have yet to recover a Fiocchi 158 ball projectile. Not all shots are going to be like them well edited (canned) hunts you watch on TV.....

jonmerritt
August 11, 2010, 10:03 PM
Yes a 9mm will kill a yote, my p85 has taken down a couple within 40 yrds with 1 hit each. my mossberg 12 gauge has taken a few within roughly 20 yards, with a 18.5 inch barrel. And my mossberg .270 has taken many beyond 300 yrds. I get calls to get rid of them, they are killing livestock, pets, and stalking people and children. I will kill a yote on sight, as long as everything else is safe and legal. I have even used a .22m rifle, all I had at the time. If you don't want me killing the yotes, come and get them, take them home with you, less that I and many others have to worry about.

gym
August 11, 2010, 11:48 PM
Yes a while back, ' 1-2 weeks" I posted a site where the guy has been hunting medium sized animals with the 9mm for 3-4 decades, there was a lot of great stuff in there about this exact subject. Try the search or I'll try to dig it up. He had become proficient at one shot kills from medium range with the 9mm and discussed the type of wepon and loads he used.

Sapper771
August 12, 2010, 04:48 AM
Gym,

Please post the link if you find it, I am interested in reading it.

Was it hipowersandhandguns.com
?

Thanks,
Sapper

gym
August 12, 2010, 11:37 AM
I sent you the link in a PM

gym
August 12, 2010, 11:42 AM
Yes he talks more about white tails jack rabbits and several other critters he has used the 9 on over the years. The other stuff is just about ammo and 9vs45, but the info is there about hunting medium to large sized animals with the 9mm on the farm and ranch

gym
August 12, 2010, 11:58 AM
I cut and pasted the info that I thought would be of use to you.
Yet, on animals from the size of Texas whitetail deer to javelina, I have seen the high-velocity 9mm JHP in +P trim demonstrate better than expected "stopping" and "killing power." This includes both 115-gr. +P loads from Corbon as well as the Federal +P+ 115-gr. law enforcement loads. Yet neither penetrates the mandated 12" minimum in ballistic gelatin. The Corbon frequently hits around 1400 ft/sec from my Hi Powers with the Federal version about 50 to 60 ft/sec behind. Either of these two 9mm rounds get around 10" penetration in gelatin, falling shy of the FBI's original penetration requirements. At the same time, in the animals I've shot with these loads, damage has been more than expected. People I've visited with who used these against human aggressors have spoken only of the round's actually decking their opponents with but one to two shots. I have heard almost repeat versions of this with the fast-stepping 185-gr. Corbon .45 ACP +P. It usual
I do not believe that a fringe hit with the best .45 ACP load (whatever that is) will be superior to a better-placed hit with 9mm expanding loads.
My 9mm with the rounds mentioned, performed precisely the same with regard to "stopping" the tough little animals. The XTP bullets normally go to about 1.5 x caliber and are not considered aggressive expanders. They are frequently shunned as defense loads because of this and concerns about overpenetration. In the javelina, straight-on broadside shots usually resulted in complete penetration. Angling quartering shots usually showed 12 to 14" penetration and very uniformly expanded 9mm bullets.


Neither my companions nor myself observed any differences in "stopping power" between the 9mm and .45 ACP on these "devil pigs." Yet I know that the .45 with these expanding bullets must leave a larger permanent wound channel. I do not insinuate that the observations made necessarily exactly translate to human targets, but I do note that there absolutely was not the difference in effect that some might lead us to have expected.
The Texas whitetail deer I've shot with 9mm, 38 Super, .44 Special, .45 Colt and .45 ACP have been pretty uniform in their responses to being shot. A few were instantly incapacitated and never got to their feet; they kicked a bit and then were done. Most jumped, ran a few yards and then keeled over. This is what I've seen time and again with these calibers. I have not used the big magnums considered more appropriate for this type activity so I cannot accurately comment on them. The interesting thing to me is that these smallish 110-lb. animals reacted essentially the same way whether hit with a 124-gr. 9mm XTP at 1240 ft/sec or a handloaded 255-gr. CSWC @ 900 ft/sec from the .45 Colt revolver! Those shot with 230-gr. Golden Sabers handloaded to about 950 ft/sec reacted most similarly to the ones shot with my 38 Super's 147-gr. Golden Saber at just under 1200 ft/sec! (Please note that I am not recommending any of these calibers for "deer hunting." These shots were all at close range and took place over a period of years with more shots passed than taken.) I cannot explain why the effects were almost always so similar, only that this is what was seen, and submit that perhaps there is more to the equation than simply expansion and penetration.



I am assuming that this same weight and size animal will respond as the coyote would. Good luck and happy hunting

ActionJax
August 12, 2010, 12:28 PM
Yes I have killed many with a 22 Rifles! I am a Shoot on site guy with the Yotes.
How about a .22 pistol with HP's (High Velocity)? I carry one of those around on my property and hope I see our local coyote someday.....

Better yet, I see him from the house and can get my .22 rifle scope on him...

Hoping the .22 rounds would at least scare him off?

UnTainted
August 12, 2010, 01:08 PM
I've used 9mm on a coyote. Worked great, was about 10-15 yards away. I was using 124 +p gold dot.

Justin Holder
August 12, 2010, 01:17 PM
If all I had was a 9mm I would want it loaded with light weight +P+ JHPs. That combination would certainly do the job.

But there are better options available such as the 38 Super, 357 Sig, 357 Magnum and 10mm Auto.

I personally carry a G20 10mm around the ranch. So far the only opportunity I've had at a coyote with it was a clean miss on my part. Next to using an adequate bullet, accuracy is very important because the kill zone on a coyote is VERY small.

I shot this fox at about 8 yards out my truck window one night coming up my driveway.
http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad319/justin10mm/Scan3.jpg

Roughneck08
August 31, 2010, 07:12 AM
126890
126891

Hope I added these pictures correctly.
Here is proof on a young coyote with mange.
He was dispatched with my Glock 17
I was using Federal 9mm bple9 +p+
It was one shot drt 25yds.
9mm just ain't powerful enough :rolleyes:

Thatguy686
September 2, 2010, 03:16 AM
wow rotting u are seriously a tree hugger who is probably against guns and only on this site to bash people we dont have the problem where i am but we have hogs which are as bad if u ask me always eating crops and killing pets and are known more to charge a person than run from them because people dont kill them and scare them enough to know to run me on the other hand if i see one and he runs i still shoot at him he is a varmint if i just knick him and hes bleeding im good with that too cause another animal prolly a coyote will get him now dont get me wrong i aim to kill but if for some reason i dont get a drt shot a injury is enough to satisfy me

dirty dave
September 2, 2010, 08:15 AM
yes there is a coyote problem everywhere it seems.I run beagles chasing rabbits when I can.The pst 10 years the population has really gone down on farmland here I think mainly coyotes are the cause.I take out any I see even go hunting for them when all other seasons are closed.I made a trap out of a 50 gal barrel to trap the ones that wont come to a call.wish more hunters would help with the problem.

Ben86
September 2, 2010, 11:30 AM
Can you describe you trap in more detail? I'd love to make one of my own.

kmcintosh78
September 23, 2010, 10:55 AM
I see a coyote, I shot it. Period, no issues, no remorse, no feelings of guilt.

BP Hunter
September 23, 2010, 02:53 PM
Hmmm, I am actually scheduled to go coyote hunting next weekend...:rolleyes:

hardluk1
September 23, 2010, 03:26 PM
Isn't ignorance of a subject amazing. Bow works good to hard to carry while mowing. Killed 4 yotes at a single setting with a bow. No deer any where to be seen.

Ben86
September 23, 2010, 06:18 PM
Bow works good to hard to carry while mowing.

Come again?

Zerodefect
September 23, 2010, 07:47 PM
Come again?

I think he meant: " Too hard to carry while Meowing."

Zerodefect
September 23, 2010, 07:50 PM
We have very little problems with Yote's out my way. I don't have cattle so they're welcome at my place and haven't been a problem.

But I agree you have to keep them scared of us. But I don't agree with wipeing them out if they're minding their own business.

Sometimes they get stupid, and need killed. We, or at least my nieghbors, have real good luck with Trained Guard Donkeys. They'll chase anything and stay up all night doing it. They don't really chase me when I'm teasing the horses and cows, but they make thier presence known.

9mm should make a mess of a Coyote.

oldbanjo
September 23, 2010, 08:00 PM
In SC you can hunt them year round and there is no limit. That means someone is having a problem with them.

Prosser
September 24, 2010, 11:43 AM
I'm not much for slaughter. However, certain animals have the ability to reproduce at an incredible rate, or, don't die,and, without enemies, or culling, take over and destroy areas. Animals that come to mind:
mice, rats, roaches, pigs, cute as they are, maybe coyotes, elephants, cape buffalo, cats, bears, etc.

If farmers can't grow food...

Steve C
September 24, 2010, 01:59 PM
I run beagles chasing rabbits when I can.The pst 10 years the population has really gone down on farmland here I think mainly coyotes are the cause.

Rabbits are a main staple of the coyotes diet. The dynamics of the coyote population and the rabbit population have a direct correlation. As the rabbits increase in population the coyotes soon follow behind. When the rabbit population gets to a higher concentration there is usually a die off due to disease or food shortage which then reduces the number of rabbit prey leaving excess coyotes without enough food. The coyote population will then dwindle.

Problems arise during the rabbit population decline before the coyote populations follow as the coyotes become food deprived and seek out other sources, usually domestic livestock, pets, etc.

Ideally the populations would achieve some stability and do when there's relative uniformity in the rabbit food supply but weather plays a big part in populations of small game and in the good years (for rabbits) their reproduction and survivability increases and in bad years they decline, the coyote populations follow with some lag in time.

The balance of nature is harsh and unforgiving and can be annoying to human populations that have more control over their environment.

Ben86
September 24, 2010, 02:12 PM
I think he meant: " Too hard to carry while Meowing."

That clears it up. ;)

Good observations about the population size and food supply Steve. The food supply must be low were I'm at, they seem to constantly be after my pets. I saw a big one cross the road today on my way to college. I need to whip out the AR and get to work.

We, or at least my nieghbors, have real good luck with Trained Guard Donkeys.

I've heard of those, I really need to get a couple.

918v
September 24, 2010, 02:52 PM
On a Texas heart shot some 9mm loads might not penetrate deep enough and cause a wound that will kill very slow and might motivate it to attack someone if they come up on a half dead coyote. I shot a few yotes on the run in the behind and knowing the ball I carry 95% of the time I am out on the farms will get the job done plenty good enough for any shot I might take on vermin. The 158s I use from time to time will end to end a yote. I have seen other ball loads not fully penetrate on such shots. I have yet to recover a Fiocchi 158 ball projectile. Not all shots are going to be like them well edited (canned) hunts you watch on TV.....
A 25lb animal will be floored by any 9mm JHP no matter ho shallow the penetration.

918v
September 24, 2010, 02:59 PM
Here is a much, much better question: Why the hell would you want to shoot a coyote? Have you or anyone that you know or anyone that THEY know ever been attacked or put into an EVEN POTENTIALLY dangerous situation by a coyote? Do you eat coyote?

I would give you 100:1 odds that the answer to those questions is "no."
Do you care if I want to eat a fly before I swat it?

hardluk1
September 24, 2010, 02:59 PM
Ben86 Opening tread was about mowing and shooting yotes with a 9mm.
Go anywhere that you have livestock of anykind and most people keep a rifles with them at all time just for the kill'n coyotes. Most also have open seasons year round. They will and do raise hell with the young ,old or sick animals. This is now becomeing slowly more of an issue with family pets and people. When coyotes a coyote showing up in central park and others in the down town of any city people better take notice . If it takes the stupid to get crewed on to release that , so be it. To many peta types around.

gunzee
September 24, 2010, 03:00 PM
no kidding. There's no shortage of coyotes, nor is there ever likely to be such.

Ben86
September 24, 2010, 09:55 PM
If it takes the stupid to get crewed on to release that , so be it. To many peta types around.

I could actually picture some goof in central park trying to pet a coyote.

Dnaltrop
September 24, 2010, 11:02 PM
I've run one coyote off years ago, some friends in California lost a few pets to them, but the local "friendly" Bear kept most of them away

In your bathrobe, a charging Raccoon is about 10 feet tall too. :D

~Boomslang~
September 24, 2010, 11:23 PM
As you can see it works just fine.... Sig P225 at 35 yards.

http://flic.kr/p/8DMmK9

tommyS4
September 25, 2010, 12:32 AM
We now have coyotes in deep south Florida, and they have begun destroying the burrowing owls which are endangered and a protected species.

Zerodefect
September 25, 2010, 12:52 AM
I've run one coyote off years ago, some friends in California lost a few pets to them, but the local "friendly" Bear kept most of them away

In your bathrobe, a charging Raccoon is about 10 feet tall too. :D

Theres a crazy lady who lives behind a huge water plant that I service the telecom stuff at.

She has a fenced in yard with pet Coyotes. I have actually fed one by hand. They're like long legged turbo charged mini GSD's on crack.

Allmost wrecked my truck first time I passed that place and did a double take at all the "weird dogs".

Ben86
September 25, 2010, 01:02 AM
In your bathrobe, a charging Raccoon is about 10 feet tall too.

Those things can be so mean! Have you every heard they're frightened screech? It's horrifying. I guess that's the whole purpose of it. :)

She has a fenced in yard with pet Coyotes. That sounds dangerous. I've heard quite a few horror stories of people trying to tame those creatures. I hope she's got a really tall fence. Coyotes can put spiderman to shame.

huduguru
September 25, 2010, 02:51 AM
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq354/yerscattergun/texas-governor-rick-perry.jpg

Zerodefect
September 25, 2010, 12:12 PM
That sounds dangerous. I've heard quite a few horror stories of people trying to tame those creatures. I hope she's got a really tall fence. Coyotes can put spiderman to shame.

It's not safe. But I've walked inside the pack of them. Must have been orphens (sp?) and imprinted on her early.

Way out in the sticks. The only reason she's allowed to keep them, is probally, noone knows.

One of the first thing I tell backpackers is to download the noises/purrs/weird beeps that coyotes make before camping. They make some really creepy sounds at night that dogs can't. Without knowing that's a coyote sound can be quite scary 20miles offroad at night.

leadcounsel
September 25, 2010, 12:13 PM
I also fall into the camp of not killing creatures just for the sake of killin -

When I was growin up, I knew mean spirited, probably depraved or abused, kids that shot birds with their BB guns for the joy of killing. Or they'd catcha fly and pull it's wings off. Or burn ants with a lighter. When they got their drivers licenses they'd purposefully hit squirels, dogs and cats just because they could. Made 'em feel powerful and important.

Yep as much as I love guns, there are some folks that I just plain don't care for, and that's for folks that just take joy in shootin and animal just because they can.

So, the REAL question isn't whether you can, it's weather you SHOULD.

You live in the country to ENJOY nature. I can never figure out why people then want to just kill all of it. Heck, if you don't want coyotes, move to the city.

918v
September 25, 2010, 12:20 PM
But if the coyotes are killing bunnies? Those fuzzy wuzzy bunnies?

Zerodefect
September 25, 2010, 01:11 PM
Bunnies are evil. They carry bombs under that fuzz.

hardluk1
September 25, 2010, 01:23 PM
leadconsel You don't realize that packs of coyotes now live in the chicago city limits and because of screwed up people and gun laws there is really nothing that can be done about themnow except to hope they atleast eat the gang members. hehe They hide during the day and run an kill at night. This is a wide spread problem with coyotes, bears even deer in many city's. To many non-hunters don't take the time to understand that when you don't keep wildlife in check with devolopment this is what happens. It is not useless killing for the sake of killing. It's trying to control something that is getting out of hand. So most people that don't hunt or ranch/farm don't understand. That can be from the constrictors in florida, coyotes everwhere, bears in school yards inside city's or deer eating your garden in arlinkton VA. where they desided to bring in bow hunters to kill deer in back yards in highly developed areas. People need to wake up.

KBintheSLC
September 25, 2010, 01:54 PM
will a hit with a 9mm do anything to a coyote at that range?

Naw... at 25 yards, a 9mm will just bounce off a coyote. ;)

Zerodefect
September 25, 2010, 01:55 PM
Sounds like we should send more Coyotes to Chicago!

bg226
September 25, 2010, 02:12 PM
What weight is considered on the heavy side for coyotes?

hardluk1
September 25, 2010, 03:16 PM
zerodefect. We could have all the yote lovers catch and ship to all major city's. Might eat all the bad guys running around at night.
bg226 big yotes can get to 40+ but tyicaly in the 20's. There was a tv show on a while back where some biologist in the north central and west were study'n the coyotes as they are larger than decades gone by to see if canine or wolf blood lines makeing for bigger yotes.

GMHAYESUSN
September 25, 2010, 04:52 PM
with a half decently placed shot it would prob do the job. Ive done it with a .40 S&W before.

Browns Fan
September 25, 2010, 06:07 PM
Quote:
"Here is a much, much better question: Why the hell would you want to shoot a coyote? Have you or anyone that you know or anyone that THEY know ever been attacked or put into an EVEN POTENTIALLY dangerous situation by a coyote? Do you eat coyote?

I would give you 100:1 odds that the answer to those questions is "no."

What a bunch of ignorant, bunny huggin' PETA crap! No more needs to be said that hasnt already been said, except that if I was up a tree deer hunting and saw a yote, I would shoot him (NC has yr round season on them). Also, I have never understood the "I only shoot what I eat" mentality. I know its been around for a long time, but I have no problem shooting a coyote and leaving it to the buzzards and possums.

Zerodefect
September 25, 2010, 06:42 PM
zerodefect. We could have all the yote lovers catch and ship to all major city's. Might eat all the bad guys running around at night.
bg226 big yotes can get to 40+ but tyicaly in the 20's. There was a tv show on a while back where some biologist in the north central and west were study'n the coyotes as they are larger than decades gone by to see if canine or wolf blood lines makeing for bigger yotes.

...and we can strap lasers to thier heads!

hardluk1
September 25, 2010, 08:21 PM
Brownsfan Some times when someone says something as stupid as our PETA guy and they own weapons, that is scary. Maybe they should not be allowed to own weapons. hehe
Zerodefect Where they gona pack the batteries,, never mind i got it.

Ben86
September 26, 2010, 01:45 AM
There was a tv show on a while back where some biologist in the north central and west were study'n the coyotes as they are larger than decades gone by to see if canine or wolf blood lines makeing for bigger yotes.

I've heard that coyotes are a bit more "open minded" toward inter-species relationships and sometimes do mate with large dogs and wolves creating super coyote hybrids. I think I may have seen one of these. The thing was so tall, but it couldn't have been a wolf. Nature's genetics are so unpredictable sometimes.

Big Bill
September 26, 2010, 02:32 AM
Justin - that coyote looks like it's part red fox. Interesting!

918v
September 26, 2010, 02:57 PM
Coyotes are a dandy ballistic gelatin substitute.

ttus
September 26, 2010, 04:12 PM
They are very Dangerous, in a pack. Seems one person, never understands

that. They Will stalk you. "Been there Done that".

captain awesome
September 26, 2010, 08:54 PM
I'll put in my .02 since every one else is
dad gum critters need shot. i personally would carry my gp100 if I knew a yote encounter was going to happen. but I doubt you would have trouble with a 9mm.
story;
I dated a girl a long time ago fresh out of high school. She had a friend who wanted to get in her pants ( I obviously despised the fat POS, but he really didn't pose much of a threat so i let it be), she of course was clueless. one day he wanted to "hang out" with her and ended up taking her to a place in the desert to watch a sun set. on the way back she realized she had left her purse and so he went back to get it. he came back running with a terrified look on his face and his back all scratch up. said a yote attacked him. its about the only time i have ever wanted to give a coyote a high five, I was laughing hysterically when she told me what happened.

kdstrick
September 26, 2010, 10:12 PM
I'll put in my .02 since every one else is
dad gum critters need shot. i personally would carry my gp100 if I knew a yote encounter was going to happen. but I doubt you would have trouble with a 9mm.
story;
I dated a girl a long time ago fresh out of high school. She had a friend who wanted to get in her pants ( I obviously despised the fat POS, but he really didn't pose much of a threat so i let it be), she of course was clueless. one day he wanted to "hang out" with her and ended up taking her to a place in the desert to watch a sun set. on the way back she realized she had left her purse and so he went back to get it. he came back running with a terrified look on his face and his back all scratch up. said a yote attacked him. its about the only time i have ever wanted to give a coyote a high five, I was laughing hysterically when she told me what happened.


LOL! Karma on fat guy... funny. That's what he gets for trying to play the lame 'friend' angle.



All yotes must die. They tried to kill my 100 lb dog once... and would have succeeded if not for me being well armed. They came right up to the house to do it. The big male didn't make it back to his den that night. :)

~Boomslang~
September 27, 2010, 12:49 AM
I posted a pic earlier of a big Coyote that I shot at a distance with a Sig P225.
It only took one 147 Gr. SXT behind her shoulder. I worked for sometime as a professional Trapper. Ive killed dozens of them with a 22lr. They arent anything like big cats. Big cats can take fire from high powered rifles and still cut you up pretty good. Its all about shot placement. If you carrying 9mm, you can rest assured that its more than enough for a Coyote. I will end by saying that your odds of evr being attacted by one, are slim to none. The Canadian girl that was killed was a fluke. Most Coyotes (and wolves) will avoid humans at all costs. They will make a yummy snack of your pets though :)

HOOfan_1
September 27, 2010, 01:21 AM
Justin - that coyote looks like it's part red fox. Interesting!

looks like 100% Gray Fox to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_fox

SIGLBER
September 27, 2010, 02:51 AM
Their actually the first case I've ever read of a woman out West being attacked and killed by Coyotes. When I lived out in the country they were an unappreciated guest. They would kill farmers livestock, sometimes pets, and worse produce half breed feral dog/coyote hybrids. If you hit them right a .22 will drop them. A good 9mm JHP in the right spot will more than do the job. I had a couple of cases where I was out walking my property at night and ran into feral dogs. I carried a .357 that stopped them dead with a head shot. They would get much closer than simple coyotes for the most part. Had a female friend that had prblems with them eating her chickens.
They were getting very bold and coming closer and closer to the house. Nailed a couple with Black Hills 68gr. JHP's from am AR. Dropped them right there and made a real mess. So if you can hit them your 9mm will work just fine.

IlikeSA
September 27, 2010, 08:01 PM
If you want to know someone who has been killed by coyotes, check out the name Taylor Mitchell. She was hiking in a park in Canada when she was attacked by two. She didn't die immediately, as two other hikers came to her aid, but she died later in the evening.

Zerodefect
September 27, 2010, 09:13 PM
If you want to know someone who has been killed by coyotes, check out the name Taylor Mitchell. She was hiking in a park in Canada when she was attacked by two. She didn't die immediately, as two other hikers came to her aid, but she died later in the evening.

Later on she turned into a Werewolf and escaped the morgue.

Ben86
September 28, 2010, 12:14 PM
Later on she turned into a Werewolf and escaped the morgue.

Seriously? Making light of a girls deadly mauling by wild animals is not right.

918v
September 28, 2010, 12:34 PM
Yes it is! LOL!

Onward Allusion
September 28, 2010, 01:57 PM
You gotta be kidding. It's not about the "joy of killing". There are packs of stray dogs and now coyotes in the cities. Coyotes are on the edges, though. I think one of the reasons for this are the municipal budget cuts that have also affected animal control.



You live in the country to ENJOY nature. I can never figure out why people then want to just kill all of it. Heck, if you don't want coyotes, move to the city.

doc2rn
September 28, 2010, 02:06 PM
All yotes need to be put down! I would either use a 9mm or just run him over with the mower:) They make a mess at lots of family farms around where I grew up and I have nothin nice to say except the only good yote is a dead yote!

Dr T
September 28, 2010, 05:30 PM
There have been several attacks by coyotes on humans in the Denver North Metro area in the last couple of years. One of our neighbors was recently stalked by a pack of three within a half mile of our home (someone else recognized the situation and helped discourage them).

I recently started the paperwork for a carry permit because I take a four mile walk by the open space every day. Winter is coming on, and most of the attacks are in the winter.

I will probably be carrying a Sig P238. If a 380 is good enough for the governor of Texas, it should work for me (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/28/texas-governor-shoots-kills-coyote-threatened-dog/).

BHP FAN
September 29, 2010, 05:56 AM
I'd think a PA63 would do the job, nicely.

leadcounsel
October 2, 2010, 09:15 PM
Some times when someone says something as stupid as our PETA guy and they own weapons, that is scary. Maybe they should not be allowed to own weapons. hehe


So where are the moderators to lock this thread down and issue warnings and such when folks violate the rules, yet other threads are locked down at the hint of LOW ROAD conduct...

I've been converted. I think that EVERY LIVING COYOTE should first be captured and tortured for daring to be a coyote. Then slowly lowered into a meat grinder so that it feels all the pain and suffering due to the coyote species. And just before it dies, it needs to be beaten with sticks and have it's eyes plucked out with dull spoons and then burned alive until it slowly dies.

Oh and then when the snakes, rabbits, rats, and all other food chain stuff that coyotes eat start bothering us, then we need to shoot all of them too!

Blood thirstly ignorant sport killers give guns, the 2A and gun enthusiasts a bad name. Shooting for the joy of shooting is NOT self defense, it is NOT preservation of your XYZ... and it's not hunting in the sense that you intend to use what you kill... it is just plain ignorant. It is to hunting what mindless consumerism is to consumerism. Sport killing like this is the reason that animals have become extinct.

So called "hunters" will find any justifiable reason to go shoot something living because it dared cross their path. It's cowardly and lowly. Yep there I said it. Ban me if you can't hear an opposing view.

Psuedo "hunters" will effortlessly shoot and kill all the groundhogs and prairie dogs and snakes, so then the coyotes will not have a food source. Then they'll complain and shoot all the coyotes. Then they wonder why there are so many rodents, prarie dogs, etc. so they'll go out shooting them.... it's an absurd and frankly disturbing cycle and there's a mental defect where a person takes pleasure in killing for the sake of killing.

As far as coyotes being dangerous, I call BS. I've camped all over the country, including many many times in the Rocky Mountians over a span of years. I've hiked hundreds, probably thousands of miles. I've had few encounters with 'yotes, and all positive. Never once felt threatened. Never once "stalked." Was I armed and ready to defend myself if attacked. Of course. And I would have because that is legitimate self defense. But to proactively just go shooting is just not right and I think people who do that need psychiatric help.

dirty dave
October 2, 2010, 09:32 PM
I dont think most of us live to kill Coyotes.There has been a big change in the small game numbers where coyotes have moved in and wiped out alot of the rabbits and other that cant outrun them.There is only people to control the coyote population where I live and I dont think we have to worry about him leaving anytime soon.People should not have a hard time understanding that.

Roughneck08
October 3, 2010, 02:47 AM
I reckon a few of ya'll have never owned livestock or or managed a ranch or farm. They're the predator that doesn't get killed, atleast around these parts. They carry mange and rabies and try to kill the young calves being born. Most of our calves are only a week and a half old here.

Ben86
October 3, 2010, 02:50 AM
But to proactively just go shooting is just not right and I think people who do that need psychiatric help.

You must understand that in some cases it is the only practical thing to do in order to protect ones live stock and therefore livelihood. You must acknowledge the difference between pointless rambo like hunting sprees and a man protecting his livestock and/or pets.

leadcounsel
October 3, 2010, 09:02 AM
I've met plenty of 'city boys' who like to go out to the praries with their scoped AR15 and bag a dozen yotes in an afternoon. These same cowards also go blast 40 prarie dogs, rabbits or anything else that dares take a breath...

danez71
October 3, 2010, 09:31 AM
Sport killing like this is the reason that animals have become extinct.

Yep. Ive been saying for years that the extinction of dinosaurs was caused by "sport kiling" (sans guns of course).

I figure in a couple more years there wont be any rabbits left either.

Original_G
October 3, 2010, 10:16 AM
One could argue that white man just protected its livestock and crop against native americans and we all know how that ended :(

Justin Holder
October 3, 2010, 04:15 PM
Ha Ha Ha, Hippies are funny. :rolleyes:

Original_G
October 3, 2010, 05:07 PM
Far away from hippie, my bulets hit paper targets.

tasco 74
October 3, 2010, 06:03 PM
my wife and i had an up close personel event the other night........... weapon was a 1999 sable at 60 miles per hour..... the thing ran right out in front of us........ :eek:

vaherder
October 3, 2010, 09:07 PM
Are more effective at taking care of predators than a human with a rifle. LGDs livestock guardian dogs.

I raise lambs here in VA and have a small flock of about 450 ewes, rams and wethers. I do the humanely raised organic thing to appeal to DC area and NYC chefs and up scale shopper. My lamb chops are equal in quality to the top of the nine grades of prime beef retail for over $20 a lb.

I have more problems with loose neighborhood dogs going after my stock than I do with coyotes. Neighborhood dogs kill for fun. Coyotes kill to eat. I take a few losses to coyotes but haven't suffered any this year. My Tatras killed a mountain lion back in the Spring. VA game folks denied for decades their were any mountain lions here and they still do publicly. There are others out there from Winchester to Roanoke. Bears are also a problem but the boys and girls send bears to easier pickings.

If I catch your dog on my property I shoot and if it has a tag with your address or phone # I will return your dog to you and string it up on your mailbox so your kids will see it. I can and have collected damages in the past when neighborhood dogs have gotten to my stock. I haven't had any losses in 18mos because of my LGDs. Your dogs shouldn't run free off your property. If they do oh well.

Coyotes arent as dumb as Wiley E. They will use a female in heat to lure the herding dog away and then ambush and kill it. They usually don't go after
humans.

Only predator I fear is the mountain lion. I have been within a couple feet of coyote w/o a problem. My herding dogs will send bears packing. Wolves dont attack humans.

I use my Winchester lever action 30/30 for predator control. My handgun can be a Walther P99 or Sig 226 or a revolver chambered in 45 Colt.

Way to many deer out here from the Valley into DC. My bro in Fairfax County has Coyotes. Coyotes generally go after smaller prey. Now what we need here in the East is to bring back the wolf.

LGDs are the best predator control for the money. More effective than any human with a rifle, They have better hearing, sense of smell and eyesight. They work 24/7.

Yes you can take them out w/ a 9mm.

Va herder

smartshot
October 3, 2010, 09:17 PM
a good hit will kill the coyote

~Boomslang~
October 3, 2010, 09:40 PM
VAHerder.... I'd love to see a pic of your Owczarek Tatrzanski. Great breed. How many dogs killed the Cougar? That is a feat unto its self for any dog or dogs.

Snowdog
October 3, 2010, 09:55 PM
I will return your dog to you and string it up on your mailbox so your kids will see it.


Great, psychologically traumatize someone's kids to indulge your lust for reprisal.
Tongue in cheek, I'll presume.

Prosser
October 4, 2010, 05:14 PM
http://zooworld.com.ua/img/dogs/podgalyanskaya-ovcharka.jpg

Great Pyr mountain dogs? My FAVORITE breed of all time, and incredible dogs.

That said, I find it a bit disturbing that 'varmits', coyotes, prarie dogs, rabbits, etc. can become an obsession with folks with rifles. Screwing up the balance of nature is something we are REALLY good at, and, our efforts to fix it result in bigger messes then we started with. The recent introduction of Canadian wolves
by the EPA comes to mind.

As for mountain lions: We don't have mountain lions and, they never come around...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/Bill400ss/KittyKat.jpg?t=1286047367

Ben86
October 4, 2010, 05:21 PM
As for mountain lions: We don't have mountain lions and, they never come around...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...g?t=1286047367

That's the scariest hunting victory pose picture I've ever seen. I bet that guy flipped out when he saw that picture. Got my back camera guy?

paddling_man
October 4, 2010, 06:43 PM
So many others have posted in here, so I'll drop my two cents too.

I've camped and hiked around coyotes for decades. Smokies to Ozarks to Four Corners to Lake Superior. They yip at sundown and, though I remain wary, I've never felt threatened. They fill a niche in that ecosystem and, as long I can maintain my position at the top of the chain, I am not their predator.

Around my parents farm or near my home and associated small children / pets? Yep... I'll treat them like any other predator that comes close to my "den." Dead.

MattTheHat
October 4, 2010, 11:55 PM
A Great Pyr, Anatoli or Tatra would indeed do nicely. *Extremely* gentle with kids and all kinds of critters that are supposed to be around, not so much for predators. Coyotes and bobcats, even large ones will be absolutely no match for a single Pyr, much less a pair.

That all being said, I've got loads of coyotes at my place in the country. I've never felt threatened in any way, even while camping. If one were acting strange, though, I'd wouldn't think twice about dispatching it. If I raised livestock I would likely be more proactive.

Some have mentioned "the natural order" of things and "natural balance" and what not. I'm afraid all wildlife situations nowadays are so far out of whack that the fear of making it any worse by shooting coyotes is laughable.


-Matt

788Ham
October 5, 2010, 01:28 AM
I live just East of Boulder, there is definitely too many coyotes in this area! A town just So. of us, Broomfield, had a run in with 5 coyotes about 2 weeks ago, right in town. A guy was walking his 2 dogs, was attacked, one dog chased them off. A day later, a woman was chased back inside her condo by 2 coyotes. The cities don't want anyone coming in and trapping/shooting/poisoning them, "Just honk your horn, or clap your hands, they'll run from you". We live next to about 50 acres of farm ground, coyotes out there every night, sometimes we've seen them in day light also. As on contributor said, "When those coyotes are howling and yipping, my dogs are very quiet." When mine are outside and hear them out here, mine don't even look that direction! The cities around the Denver area don't want the Game and Fish to remove them, leave them alone, are they really hurting anything?! Like another contributor said,"Pack them up and let them take 'em home with them...." I've shot many in my 61 years, and I'll continue to also, .44 mag. shotgun or whatever rifle I have with me! Guts and fur everwhere!:evil:

Ben86
October 5, 2010, 11:20 AM
Last week a neighbor's dog got eaten alive by coyotes. I could hear its yelping about a quarter mile away, growing quieter and quieter then silence . Unfortunately my neighbor slept right through it. I have nothing but contempt for these creatures. People don't realize how dangerous they can be to pets until they come up missing or they find a hollowed out carcass.

This reminds me I need to increase the size of my dog pack.

Marshall
October 5, 2010, 04:15 PM
If they pose a threat to me I'll crack 'em in a heartbeat, otherwise I let 'em run.

I've never needed to pop one in my 51 years other that when actually Coyote hunting.

But yes, a 9mm will do.

vikinggirl
October 5, 2010, 04:42 PM
We have coyotes here in NY state, they have been a problem killing and mauling pets. So far no people have been attacked but they have been menaced. Kind of surprised they flourish here since its so populated.

Ben86
October 5, 2010, 07:31 PM
They're ability to adapt to unconventional environments is only rivaled by rodents.

Davek1977
October 6, 2010, 05:36 AM
I've met plenty of 'city boys' who like to go out to the praries with their scoped AR15 and bag a dozen yotes in an afternoon. These same cowards also go blast 40 prarie dogs,

And suchj hunters would be welcomed with open arms on our ranch.....fewer coyotes and prairie dogs means less depredation of our calves and less pasture land made useless by prairie dogs. Varmit hunting is widely popluar, and also very challenging. It gives hunters and shooters a way to hone their skills year round, as neither coyotes nor praire dogs are subject to seasons or limits. Even so, the population of both are steadily rising, which leads me to think we need to convince MORE peopkle that shooting 40 prairie dogs or 12 coyotes is a fun way to spend the afternoon. its a win-win for everyone....ranchers get rid of nuisence species that tend to rapidly overpopulate and cause problems, and hunters and shooters have hunting opprotunites year round. Too, a hunter willing to collect a few coyotes or an afternoon spent blowing up prairie dogs stands a LOT better of a chance for permission to hunt once upland game and deer seasons roll around. Its not about being bloodthirsty...its about keeping populations in check, pastures from being destroyed, and to reduce predation by predators. It serves a purpose like most hunting does. Anyone blind to that fact has spent very little time in any sort of rural environment. Random, indiscriminate slaughter of animals is somehting I could never support. However, prairie dogs and coyotes are largely nuiscence species that can cause serious problems for those in farming and ranching professions. Its easy to talk about slaughter and indiscrimnate killing when you've never seen a coyote, or pack of coyotes, eating a partially born baby calf still hanging out of its mother's body. Maybe you haven't seen hundreds of acres reduced to absolute wastelands by uncontrolled praire dogs. Thats OK if you haven't, but some of us HAVE. We KNOW why we kill these animals and encourage otehrs to as well. Maybe you've had a diffferent set of life experiences, but those of us with rural backgrounds have seen the the cycle of life and death on a daily basis. We know where our food comes from other than the grocery store. We know that in order for some animals to live, sometimes other animals must die. None of this seems like rocket science to me, but I've lived it. Some people haven't, and we've got to remember thier ignorance of our reality doesn't change the fact that our reality IS real. You can pretend to know all you want about slaughtering coyotes and praire dogs, but until you've witnessed the damage they can do when left unchecked (even in areas with no closed season and no limits on either animal) you don't really know what the heck you are talking about.

weisse52
October 6, 2010, 09:00 AM
I would not go out of my way to shoot one, but in the right place at the right time (or is that the wrong place at the wrong time) I would shoot one.

As someone already stated, it would have to do more with where I was and what the yote was doing.

I do not blame ranchers from blasting them on sight. For those who do, oh well.....

Original_G
October 6, 2010, 02:31 PM
It is simple logic. If you kill all of the coyotes you get more and more rabbits and prerie dogs and they are much harder to get rid off.

millertyme
October 6, 2010, 04:33 PM
I'm a little surprised that there aren't more pictures of dead coyotes that were taken with 9mm's of various configuration just to prove a point.

Prosser
October 6, 2010, 05:05 PM
what are the natural predators for prarie dogs?
Gophers?

Davek1977
October 7, 2010, 04:52 AM
what are the natural predators for prarie dogs?

Coyotes, birds of prey, badgers....basically anything that can catch 'em will eat 'em. Thats one of the problems with some of the more effective poisons out there....if the praire dog dies above ground, some poisons remain active in the carcass, posing a danger to hawks, eagles, owls, and anything else that happens across them. This danger was worse before restrictions were passed as to what poisons could be used. Now, only certain chemicals (with a shorter 1/2 life) designed to kill the rodent underground can be used, and only then by licensed applicators. The hoops one just jump through to stop the damn things from destroying one's pastureland are absurd, but poisoning them is the ONLY effective method of control. Even a 1/2 dozen of those "hunters" leadcounsel seems to dispise won't successfully or effectively "shoot out" a town even given days or weeks to do so. The critters aren't dumb, and won't show themselves if they sense danger. In 33 years of growing up around prairie dogs, I've never seen a town controlled or decimated by hunting. The only effective way to reclaim the land is to poison the town and start over. Even then, roamers from neighboring towns will attempt to set up residence in abandoned towns. in these situaitons, so long as they are discovered QUICKLY, shooting them can keep them from becoming reestablished. However, if left to their own devices, the town can rapidly repopulate, either with newborn pups or recruits from nearby colonies. On our ranch, we are forever struggling with dogs, because despite our constant attempts at controlling them, we have neighbors that seemingly don't care that their land (and now ours) is being destroyed, with holes every few feet and grass nibbled to the dirt. Its a constant source of hard feelings in the ranching world....yet theres some of us who would appearently call what our neighbors practice as "conservation" and what we do on our ranch as "slaughter".....but to see the two ranches side by side paints a vastly different picture. Grass is abundant on our sides of the fence, with wildlife populations booming. Turkey, deer, antelope, grouse, etc are all common in our areas.....but rarely seen in the expanse of desert our neighbor's land has been turned to. Praire dgs are fine...in moderation. Left uncontrolled, they rape the land and leave it utterly worthless.

Prosser
October 8, 2010, 05:07 PM
As you've stated, the only real way to get at them is going underground? So what works?
What about snakes? Import a ton of badgers, but they dig pretty good size holes too, don't they?

Seems to me snakes would be the answer, since they can easily move underground, populate at a pace that is close to dogs(?).

Back on topic, but does a large population of coyotes, or even a reasonable one, seriously impact dog populations?

And what about pigs? They seem to be the worst, since they are smart, eat a lot, breed like crazy, can be vicious, and are sweeping the US?

Coyotes go after pigs?

Rail Driver
October 8, 2010, 05:16 PM
Wolves dont attack humans.

http://www.prosts.com/Article-Wolf-Attacks.htm

http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2007/11/01/wolf-verdict.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0D1EFB3F5512738DDDAA0894D1405B8985F0D3

It happens, just not as often as other species attack humans. There were many many more links I just provided the first few in the list.

As far as 'yotes... shoot em with whatever you've got, they're pests and they cause damage to livestock and property.

hardluk1
October 8, 2010, 05:31 PM
Does anyone thing this tread has got'n a bit off topic????????

~Boomslang~
October 8, 2010, 08:21 PM
@Millertyme "I'm a little surprised that there aren't more pictures of dead coyotes that were taken with 9mm's of various configuration just to prove a point."


I posted a pic of one I took posing with the P225 that fell the Coyote.

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