[MicroBalrog]

OK, imagine you're living in Gun Paradise and you can possess any non-NBC weapon you wish.

And imagine that America is being invaded by the Bad Guys. And there's so many of them that Uncle Sam asks the Unorganised Militia to sign up at local NG bases and help.

So I sign up (in this perfect Gun World, I'd be a US citizen), and so does Tamara with her trailer-truckfull of small arms, and so does everybody else. So now, what's to happen to make it more likely we have even vagualy similar weapons (using similar ammo?)

[Andrew Rothman]

Ya see, THAT's why we need ARs!

:D

[bogie]

Well, I'll bet that most folks show up with .30-06s, .30-30s, .223s, and then there's the rest. But I suspect that enough folks will show up with oddball calibers to keep the rampaging hordes off the shores...

[geekWithA.45]

All my stuff (except the .45's, which is plentiful enough) shoots one of the various Nato standards.

That this is true wasn't an accident.

[Harry Tuttle]

now why would the CMP have an AR15 in the catalog?
:)
if'n ya show up with a black powder musket
ya better bring yer own powder

those who show up with a "parity arm" to the current issue weapon platform
get ammo cans full of strippered ball ammo

those who show up with an Olympic Arms AR with a "match chamber"
get to practice clearance drills

:D

[Majic]

If there is to be ammo compatability which sounds like the government will furnish the ammo, then Uncle Sam needs to empty all the armories and provide the arms also. Not everyone owns rifles chambered in .223 and handguns chambered in 9mm.
There was a long thread in the past on the usage of the militia in that situation. I would be one of the many snipers as since the military got overrun I wouldn't put much faith in the decisions of the commanders making my battlefield plans. They had their chance and blew it with people they trained, armed, and commanded. How would they do better using the militia?

[WilderBill]

In my world, most of my friends own at least some weapons that are either .223 or 7.62 x 39, so Iwould expect that those two calibers would cover way over half of the volunteers.
Then too, the government has stocks of ammo in warehouses left over from the days when it was still needed. I expect that if it came down to it, they could come up with a bunch of 30.06, .30 carbine and .45 ammo.
I bet somewhere there is still 30-40 and 45-70 ammo stored!
If in doubt, be sure to keep plenty of what you shoot on hand. :D

[Smoke]

But this is America! The government must provide me with ammo for my gun! If my gun isn't the same as everyone elses they must make special allowances for me. Right? It works in every other aspect of life.

Ohhhh wait, thats the Democratic Militia. Or is that an paradox?

[Majic]

In my world, most of my friends own at least some weapons that are either .223 or 7.62 x 39, so Iwould expect that those two calibers would cover way over half of the volunteers.

I don't think Uncle Sam would have any 7.62x39 cartridges laying around, being that the U.S. government never chambered a rifle in that caliber.

[cool45auto]

Mine stay around 9mm, .45 and 7.62x39 so I should be okay.

[chaim]

In the kind of situation you describe I don't think we'd need to go through a lot of ammo. A militia, irregular, untrained (or maybe given only cursory training), does not do well using regular infantry tactics against regular, trained, forces. We would be looking at ambushing small groups of soldiers, sniper tactics and simliar guerilla warfare tactics. Even defensively, we'd be best off hiding because if found we likely wouldn't make it with any kind of weaponry. That being the case, we wouldn't need much ammo. These tactics don't burn up that many rounds. Hopefully, most of us would have enough ammo on hand for the weapons we'd likely use.

I see using .22lr and .223 (to control noise) for short distance urban sniping, .223 and .308 (and .243, 6.5x55 and other similar rounds) for medium distance urban and suburban sniping and short distance rural sniping, and .308 (and similar) and more powerful rounds for longer distance sniping. Most people have a ton of .22lr, .223 is cheap and easy to stockpile (and can be had in an emergency from the gov't if they are giving ammo out), .308 still is available as cheap surplus, etc. Even though not ideal, 7.62x39 rifles could be used at shorter distances and the ammo is dirt cheap. It wouldn't be too hard to stockpile more than enough for the kinds of needs that a militia would likely have in an invasion anyway. If it ended up being a longer term situation, you make due- pick up weapons from dead professional soldiers on your side or use captured weapons and ammo from the bad guys.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

But this is America! The government must provide me with ammo for my gun! If my gun isn't the same as everyone elses they must make special allowances for me. Right? It works in every other aspect of life.

LMAO. Ain't it true:barf:

Except for one, all in my armory are .308, .45, 9mm, 12 ga., .357/.38, .44:evil:

The 45/70 is probably not going for the militia (or the wife's mouse gun .380).

I am working on that .223 thing, just grates my nerves to think about it:p

BTW, no accident.

[Navy joe]

Well I guess we exhaust our supply of .577 Snider, 6.5jap, and 30-40 Krag while valiantly obtaining modern light weapons and allied equipment in the caliber(s) of the invading hordes choosing. :D

Guns and ammo being more durable than their users are rarely in short supply in such a situation as you dreamed up.

[Cosmoline]

I figure if anyone gets invaded, it will be Alaska. We were invaded in the last big war, after all. In that spirit I keep a lot of weapons in 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R. It worked for the Finns, after all :D

[Dave R]

Yup, my AK shoots .223, my bolt-gun is .308, and my sidearm is 9mm.

Hmmm, might have to get an AR some day for parts compatibility....

Ahhh, never mind. AKs never break. :D











(I know they do, I'm just perpetuating the stereotype.)

[Gewehr98]

I don't think Uncle Sam would have any 7.62x39 cartridges laying around, being that the U.S. government never chambered a rifle in that caliber.

But Uncle Sam did make a goodly amount of that ammo at the government ammunition plants right around the time of our troubles in Vietnam . (Found some at Badger Army Ammunition Plant, curiously devoid of headstamps.) ;)

[Trebor]

I've got buds in several local NG units. Somehow I think they'd be showing up at MY house for a ammo draw.

[capnrik]

Now, why would I own a rifle and not have a sufficient amount of ammo, depending on the rifle's intended use? :scrutiny:

[greyhound]

The government must provide me with ammo for my gun!

Umm, this is the same gummint that would rather melt down most of the old military rifles (!) (yeah, I know some go to the CMP) rather than trust their citizens to buy them at a profit?

Make the M16s non-auto convertible (I :barf: as I write that, but realisitically...) and make us pay the conversion costs. You'd still sell a million.

Tell ya what, Howard Dean pushes for that and I'll vote for him!:D

[justashooter]

most of the people on this board wouldn't even get to empty the first mag. can't do it dead. the only sit you could be effective in has already been mentioned. hide behind a rock and pick off singles.

don't kid yourself. if it ever gets bad and you run up to the good guys telling them you're on their side, they will be forced to put you behind a wire fence, and run your precious toys over with the first tank that comes along.

you are not part of the establishment, unless you are under it's command.
your son is your spotter.

[Cosmoline]

Justashooter,

While there is much truth in what you say, I should remind you what that "establishment" told the residents of Alaska in 1942. When the Japanese come, you can either give up or head to the hills and make them pay for your capture.

There's no telling when the powers that be will decide that your home isn't worth fighting for, so you'd better be prepared to do the job yourself.

As far as whether poorly organized groups of militia can make a difference against an enormous army, I would cite the Winter War. Marksmanship and preparedness makes a difference. And a bullet from a 50 year old rifle will kill an enemy soldier of today just as dead as it did fifty years ago.

[rdbrowning]

I think that in this situation that we would all do exactly what our forefathers did. We would bring our own weapons and fuel for them. If we couldn't replenish our supplies along the way we would improvise. After all, if you have used up all of your ammo, there had better be at least a few folks lying around not needing theirs anymore. When the founding fathers reported for duty they not only brought their own rifles/muskets but also a mold to cast their own balls. Remember that each weapon came with it's own mold because of inconsistancy in barrel boring of the times. Each one was a little different and there was no "standard" except for maybe the 75 caliber Brown Bess. I think that the "right to keep and bear arms" extends to the ammo for those arms. None of the rifles that I would bring are military calibers, but I can keep them fed for a pretty good while.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Welcome to THR, rdbrowning ;) .

[t-stox]

US invaded by the bad guys??(UN)??? whoa you guys got waaaay to much time on your hands! take up reloading or something!

[Cosmoline]

Invasion in the next twenty years? Unlikely. But the point is we have to take the long view. Can you guarantee me that China won't have a blue water navy in 2080? Can you guarantee me that the EU won't be our next great foe by 2100? We have to stay ready and pass the knowledge down or we really will be finished before we start.

[igor]

Cosmoline, the Finnish militia wasn't that poorly organized in the late 30's... it was a conscript army that had all the planning and organization in place, just like we still do. Winter War was not a guerrilla war.

Back then the problem was equipment and supplies, which had been neglected badly. Marksmanship and personal preparedness were indeed the thing that got us through then (with quite some luck). There you have a most valid point.

On how to make invading hordes pay a price I'd cite Afghanistan in the 80's, current Palestine and Iraq or, especially, current Chechnya. Awful. :(

[GD]

If I need that much ammo then I am in the wrong place! If I am relying on my enemy for ammo then I figure I should have a few of his weapons also. If I am relying on domestic sources for ammo then ditto.

[cornbread2]

The only military force we in the US have to fear on our soil is that of the US goverment.

That is who we will have to fight someday not a huge hoard of Chinese troops come to take our land.

It will be a fight for our basic rights.

[Majic]

US invaded by the bad guys??(UN)??? whoa you guys got waaaay to much time on your hands!

That type of thinking is exactly how Japan pulled off the attack on Pearl Harbor and march over us thru the south Pacific. We best stay prepared because you never know who your next opponent will be or where he may strike from.