Anyone have any recent information on the status of the Rohrbaugh pistol? Are they finally shipping? Anyone have one yet? Any published reviews yet?
So far, this pistol has been what we would call in the software business - "vaporware" ... :scrutiny:
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December 9, 2003, 05:37 PM
Jeff's and my pistols will be shipped on Friday or Monday.
Not so on the vaporware comment as it relates to software. Vaporware is for purposes of FUD when a publisher announces a "great, fantastic" app that will solve all your problems, etc., in order to influence the market NOT to buy a competitor's product anticipating that waiting "just a little longer" for the vaporware to come out hoping it will be a better buy.
Rohrbaugh hasn't asked for anybody's money nor has it done anything to discourage the market from buying competitive products.
December 9, 2003, 05:46 PM
So "unicorn" would be a better word? A mythical animal. :D
December 9, 2003, 06:18 PM
Well, the pistol was first announced as a prototype at the SHOT Show in February, 2002. Mine will arive 22-1/2 months after that. For an existing, experienced firearms manufacturer to come out with a 9mm Mighty Mouse gun in a new genre in that short a time would be amazing.
Rohrbaugh is, however, a NEW company. For it to get from announcemnt to delivery in less than 2 years considering all the ATF, manufacturing, legal, and other hurdles is nothing short of fantastic.
Colt, for example, has spent YEARS and MUCH money trying to come up with a marketable stupid idea, their "smart" gun.
Innovation takes time, and these guys have done an exemplary job of showing how it should be done.
December 9, 2003, 06:24 PM
1. We DON'T want Colt to produce the smart gun, so no one's complaining.
2. The Rohrbaugh still hasn't been released, but has been promised for over a year.
Don't get me wrong I hope the the Rohrbaugh succeeds and I will be following the reviews with great interest. But even if it is as successful as the Seecamp, it will still be years before they are readily available. Lets keep our fingers crossed, Its a great concept.
December 9, 2003, 06:36 PM
I find the interest in this gun nothing short of remarkable considering that we have no idea whether it will be great or garbage.Wheres all the interest in the Felk-hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm?
December 9, 2003, 06:42 PM
It's not in the Hi-Point genre, is it? :what:
December 9, 2003, 06:54 PM
No its not related to the sweet shootin Hi-Point line.Ive never been able to find a wholesaler who sells em and they dont have a website yet-but that baby's gonna be SWEET!~
December 9, 2003, 07:44 PM
YES!!! I got the phone call today as well and Blackhawk did get his phone call before I did. Something about him emailing them and calling every couple of hours for the last couple of years. ;) Karl is assembling my gun Thursday night, he hopes. The only thing they are waiting on is for the barrels to come back from the heat treater, then they get bead blasted. There are 44 frames done and awaiting assembly with six guys to do the work. The guns are all hand fitted. With any luck the gun will arrive Monday or Tuesday next week and have the first slugs down the barrel that night.
Remember that two Rohrbaughs have in fact been delivered. They are at Warner Brothers in Ca. Granted, they are incapable of shooting live ammo, but they were delivered.
December 9, 2003, 07:55 PM
Blackhawk did get his phone call before I did.Just remember that.... :D
December 9, 2003, 11:51 PM
It's a very small autoloader made in Australia. Available in 9mm, .40, .357 Sig, and .45ACP. Polymer frame. Haven't seen one in person, and can't find a pic on the web.
December 10, 2003, 12:13 AM
I found a Felk reference saying it was 20 ounces with an empty magazine. "Very small"...? A Kel-Tec P-11 is a subcompact 9mm polymer/aluminum/steel gun that weighs around 14 ounces empty or 20 ounces with a loaded mag (10 rounds). The P-11 isn't a mouse gun in size or weight, and I wouldn't call it "very small" either.
December 10, 2003, 07:59 AM
The Felk look like a pregnant Poly Witness/High Point combo. And doesnt come across as "that small" to me either. A compact size of a fullsize gun maybe....but if I remember right.......everything is adjustable..even the trigger.......
December 10, 2003, 08:43 AM
Recall the Seacamp hysteria? When you had to get on a waiting list and wait and wait and wait to have the priviledge to buy one of their overpriced guns? Recall that the Keltec P32 came out and blew Seacamp's doors off in sales?
After all of this hype, waiting and false hopes, I wonder just how many of these they [ Rohrbaugh] will sell?
December 10, 2003, 04:51 PM
Ah, spoken like a true impatient American! :D
Actually, I don't remember the Seecamp hysteria you mentioned. That's because I've never been interested in blowback mouse guns. I've had a couple of PPKs, and blowback designs are just not something I want. As for the Seecamp itself, they have fine workmanship, they funciton well, and their owners don't consider them overpriced or they wouldn't have bought them, would they?
Hype about Rohrbaughs? Who, what, where, and when? I haven't seen ANY put out by Rohrbaugh, but I have enjoyed speculating and discussing their product. Maybe that's the hype you're referring to, or some of it. If a locked breech 9mm mouse gun the size of a P-32 made of stainless and aluminum doesn't excite you, fine. Just ignore it and everything about it. The rest of us are excited about such a pistol.
Overpriced? According to whom? If you wouldn't pay a grand or so for one of them, don't. That's all there is to it... don't. You've probably got other things to do with your money. Some of the rest of us are more than happy to pay whatever it takes to get a modern work of art that spits 9mm slugs and fits nicely in a covert carry place. The rest of us are willing to pay that amount. As an aside, many of us are willing to pay much more than that for 1911s, shotguns, rifles, and other handguns. It's our money, and we'll spend it on whatever we want. You do the same. :p
December 10, 2003, 04:59 PM
Hype? I've never even HEARD of a Rohrbaugh before this thread. :confused:
I guess it's time to hit google.
Post Google EDIT: Oh that! I saw that in another thread next to a KelTec. OK, I didn't realize it was hyped ;)
December 10, 2003, 05:37 PM
I don't know if hyped is the right word, but it has been mentioned in 88 threads (according to the below search) in the past year. That's pretty hot for a gun that doesn't exist yet. If its any good I'll probably get one when and if they go into production.
I hope it succeeds, I'd love to have one. As others have said, a gentleman's pocket pistol that shoots 9mm would be fantastic!
Jeff and Blackhawk, let us know when you get yours and give us a full report ... with pics please! :D
December 10, 2003, 11:14 PM
tiberius, did you do any searches for Glock, S&W, Kahr, Kel Tec, etc., to see how many threads they were mentioned in? :D
Since I'm an unashamed and excited Rohrbaugh concept fan, I'm liable to have mentioned "Rohrbaugh" in a great number of those 88 threads whenever it seemed to fit the topic, and that's only because I have no shame about mentioning something I'm excited about.
Remember all the threads on TFL where no matter what the subject of a thread was, somebody would say "Get a Glock"? Not me, because Glocks don't resonate with me at all.
Not only is the Rohrbaugh story full of all the elements of a great success primer, but the people are truly interesting and personable. They're ones you'd like to know. None of the background story has come out to my knowledge, but it will be a very interesting adjunct to the little gun's success when things are smokin' & blowin'.
Jeff's 2002 SHOT Show report was my introduction to the concept, and it just strummed my strings right from the git go. The more I found out about it, the more excited I became. That was compounded as I learned that they were doing things exactly the "right" way despite the obstacles and opportunities to compromise the design and their new business. Every gun they make will go out the door with their name and family crest on it, and what that means is VERY important to them.
If you want to get excited about the concept, line up three cartridges base down right next to each other: a .32 ACP, a .380 Auto, and a 9mm Luger. Then put a P-32 next to them. (The P-32 is just a hair bigger than a Rohrbaugh, but it's lighter.) The point is that the 9mm round will seem like an artillery shell next to the .32, and it will seem like twice the power of the .380, but's that just because it is! Now imagine TOTAL stealth for a CCW that has the power to command any SD situation its owner gets into. Now imagine precision made steel and aluminum parts hand fitted by expert gunsmiths in machines so beautiful that they should be protected instead of them protecting you. That's the concept. I appreciate fine workmanship, elegant style, uncompromising design, and the beauty of form following function.
George Kelgen doesn't HAVE a greater admirer of his designs than me. They're exactly right for the market Kel Tec addresses. The Rohrbaugh design is better simply because it is the maximum gun in the minimum package, and it uses a compression mainspring.
Lest you think THIS post is hype, let me just say that when I'm excited about something, I can't help but tell my interested friends about it, and weren't they those at TFL, and aren't they those on THR?
December 11, 2003, 01:21 AM
I couldn't resist. I did it for "Glock"..... I only got 5,489 hits. I believe that Glock has made more pistols than it has mentions on THR...Lets see how long Rohrbaugh takes to make that claim. :D
December 11, 2003, 02:32 AM
I for one am waiting patiently (well almost :D) for your (and others) range report(s). I do hope this company does well, and will strongly consider purchasing one of these pistols. Frankly I'm tired of hearing about people complaing about the price. I too wish they would be priced about 1/2 of what they are/will be, but precision made state-of-the-art equipment is rarely inexpensive.
I will probably end up with a PM9, but I am holding off until I see/hear about the Rohrbaugh guns. I have also heard that Kel Tec has a new mini 9 coming out.
December 11, 2003, 10:23 AM
I believe that Glock has made more pistols than it has mentions on THR...Lets see how long Rohrbaugh takes to make that claim. Think about it. That's the opposite of what a manufacturer should want. It's like being known for your incompetence, chicanery, stupidity, and sloth instead of admirable positive character qualities your mother hopes you have.
Ever hear of Karl Fabrege? Vincent Van Gogh? Pablo Picasso? John Moses Browning? Georg Lugar? Ever seen any of their original works in person? They were all artists in their chosen medium, and regarding the last two, I dare say that their "mentions on THR" exceed the number of products they actually produced. OTOH, there are reputedly gazillions of Jennings, Bryco, and other pistols out there without that many "mentions on THR," but I've never knowingly seen one, nor do I care to. Get the point?
I suspect that every Rohrbaugh is going to generate a lot of "mentions on THR" for the simple reason that it's a highly desirable implementation of an attractive concept.
Somebody I put onto Rohrbaugh who makes a pistol accessory recently visited the factory and got to shoot one. After the first shot, he exclaimed "WOW!" and looked lovingly at it. He then fired off the rest of the magazine, looked at the gun, and spontaneously kissed it! He gushed on an on about the mild recoil for such a powerful gun of such a small size. Think he's going to spread the word...?
Korth is another brand I've never seen an example of, and I don't care to despite their reputation for impeccable quality, etc. I've looked at their product line via media, and the most interesting thing about them is their astronomical price tag. $5,000 for an unexciting pistol? Can I get a break with that? OTOH, there's ONE .45 ACP Lugar toggle top. Two were made by GL himself, and one was destroyed in testing. That's a gun I'd love just to see!
December 11, 2003, 10:33 AM
First I heard of it was a post by Correia on TFL on 2/5/02, probably the same as many of you here. In July of '02, Blackhawk was posting Rohrbaugh's claims that "we are on schedule to have the production models available we feel by around October of this year." Also, the initial price point mentioned was in the $695-$795 range.
Now, I, too, have been guilty of being snide about the Rohrbaugh's release, as recently as this summer. I know you're trying to cut Rohrbaugh some slack, Blackhawk, with the 22 1/2 month issue, but you have to admit there's a reason folks are a little skeptical and sarcastic. After all, it would be equally fair to say you're getting the first one 14 months after you had an expectation of seeing it.
On the other hand, I certainly understand stuff that sometimes happens to get in the way of initial deadlines (I'd better: I live in New Mexico , for heaven's sake!), and I hope it's a neat gun that lots of people enjoy and use in good health, and I hope it makes Rohrbaugh rich and creates lots of jobs for Americans.
And I'm very glad that folks here are excited about the concept, and the new platform, and the sport in general. It's a great site, and it's great to be here with all of you! :)
December 11, 2003, 10:40 AM
Sorry, my mistake. I thought Rohrbaugh was trying to be a gun manufacturer, not an artist. Since they have their 2 blank firing prop guns made they can quit now so they can auctioned at Christies for outragous sums in the future.
December 11, 2003, 11:43 AM
"First I heard of it was a post by Correia on TFL on 2/5/02"
Y'all don't forget it either. :) I even beat Jeff to the presses on that one.
I got to handle one of the initial prototypes and I was super impressed, and Karl was a really nice guy. I've been excited about the gun the whole time. When I first saw the booth I thought that it was just going to be another cheap .32 from some no name company. Nope, it impressed me more than just about anything at the SHOT show. To give you an idea I was there right after Dr. Beretta looked at it, and said that it was the best and most innovative new product at the show.
I look at it this way. If the fact that it has taken 22 months to get the guns out really really offends you, don't buy one. :) I'm sure they will have no problems selling every single one of the guns that they make, even at $1,000.
Heck, I played with the Barrett Tavor the same day. I'm still waiting for it as well.
December 11, 2003, 11:54 AM
Erich, what you've said is factually correct.
Am I derelict in reporting the answers to questions I asked and assuming that because I was interested others would be? Or was the fault, if any, on Rohrbaugh's part for answering questions "to the best of their knowledge"?
I did have the money set aside to get one in October, 2002, and I even arranged a commission to do a review of the gun. I've even been using the testing ammo for a foot rest since them. I haven't, however, been "trying to cut Rohrbaugh any slack" on the delivery issues because I know what it's like trying to launch a new product.
I spent 17 years in the development and manufacturing business, and estimating TOD (Time of Delivery) was the most aggravating facet of it. People find out that you're working on something they want, so they start asking "when?" So does your family, associates, etc. They all clamor for an answer! You make your best guess based on analysis, commitments from suppliers, subcontracters, regulatory agencies, etc. Then you DOUBLE that. Then when the first product goes out the door, you face the fact that it took DOUBLE that! FOUR times the time it SHOULD take! Meanwhile, you realize that the schedule slipped for reasons YOU caused -- reasons like the original design could be improved by adjusting this or that or a supplier didn't deliver consistent quality or meet the deadlines for the same reasons you couldn't. Making products from scratch is very difficult because of the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfield. Without my background, I might be a bit crankier about Rohrbaugh not delivering sooner, but why? What did they owe me? I hadn't paid a dime, after all! They owed me NOTHING, not even the answers to the questions I asked. But they did answer, and they did listen to my unsolicited comments, and they even said they appreciated them!
And that's the bottom line. Rohrbaugh doesn't owe anybody here any explanations for the delays, and they only owe Jeff and me guns, AFAIK, because we've paid for them.
The "hype" and "disappointment" people feel is based on the frustration of "anticipatory delight" being delayed, not because of any failure to perform on any obligation by Rohrbaugh.
December 11, 2003, 12:05 PM
Sorry, my mistake. I thought Rohrbaugh was trying to be a gun manufacturer, not an artist. You don't have to apologize for your ignorance, tiberius.
Not everybody realizes that creating something worthwhile requires true artistry, and that most so-called "artists" are nothing more than amateurs who slop things around and manage to get others to pay them for the "refrigerator art" and "modern music" they produce.
December 11, 2003, 12:59 PM
How much did you guys pay for your Rorbaughs?
December 11, 2003, 02:22 PM
Well, I sure wasn't calling you derelict, only pointing out that I understand how folks could get a little snide about the delay. Like I said, I hope the gun is a big success for Rohrbaugh.
December 11, 2003, 08:36 PM
Blackhawk, GOOD NEWS!!!! I just spoke to Karl. The slide assemblies and frame assemblies are done. The barrels are coming back from the heat treater tomorrow, Friday. They are going to bead blast, bevel the barrel hoods, and do final assembly tomorrow. The final versions of the owners manual came back from the attorney today, so the manual will be 22 pages of legal paper rather than a neat little booklet. That is 20 pages of 'you should not see the hole in the end of the gun while shooting. Do not place gun in mouth. Do not look down the barrel and pull the trigger.' The other 2 pages show how to strip the gun. He has the 1500 cases, but the 1500 boxes to ship it in have not shown up, so our guns are coming in any box he has laying around. I just hope it isn't a left over tampon box. Our guns will ship on Monday and forty more are expected to ship over the next two weeks, just in time for Christmas, but there are currently only 20 slides done, not enough for all the frames.
As Blackhawk has mentioned, the guns are as much a custom gun as a Valtro or Les Baer are. It is really limited mass production not custom. A Rock River is really a custom gun. They do have the hand fitting down from several hours to about an hour as the CNC machinery can now spit out stuff pretty much perfect. The price? Cheaper than a Valtro, Baer, SIG P210, or H&K P7 at only $900 retail. I am having mine sent to the dealer who does my transfers and I ordered it at a dealer price of $756. So figure $756, plus shipping, plus dealer markup or transfer is what they will cost. That puts it in the realm of what a SIG P220ST after taxes goes for here in Texas.
December 12, 2003, 12:37 AM
Good! If they ship on Monday, I'll be looking for it on Wednesday or Thursday, in time for an interesting weekend.... :D
December 13, 2003, 12:44 AM
Blackhawk, When you get your gun, can you post some nice pictures for us unlucky folks? Thanks...
December 13, 2003, 06:44 PM
Blackhawk, When you get your gun, can you post some nice pictures for us unlucky folks? Thanks...That's really in Jeff's arena. He's going to do an article on it, and he takes great photos.
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