What do you think is the major "sleeper" cartridge out there?


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blackops
August 16, 2010, 12:30 AM
I'm basically requesting everyone's opinion as to which cartridge do they really believe is the true "sleeper" (excellent cartridge that really isn't spoken about or given the resepect it should in your opinion) cartridge out there?

Mine is the 7 wsm. You never hear the same chatter about the 7 wsm as compared to the 6mm or 308, 300wm, 338 lapua etc. The more I research the more I come back to this cartridge. A laser beam out to 1k and can handle 1600yds. Shooting 180 VLD's at 3000fps with a BC of 659...that's just nasty.

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LeonCarr
August 16, 2010, 12:40 AM
Handgun round - 10mm, easily the most versatile handgun round out there.

Rifle round - .35 Whelen, magnum stopping power without the magnum recoil.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

PT1911
August 16, 2010, 12:42 AM
7.62x25 and 357 sig for handgun....

260 for rifle.

and i will throw a tip of the hat to the immortal 45-70.

benzy2
August 16, 2010, 12:44 AM
.260 would be mine. Great parent case, great selection of bullets. Wish it were chambered in more factory rifles.

kcmarine
August 16, 2010, 12:49 AM
5.45x39mm Soviet. Low recoil and 5.45 Saigas are being imported. Needs far more domestic brass made for it, as is the case with most Soviet cartridge designs.

chieftain
August 16, 2010, 12:53 AM
30-30 Both the cartridge and the carbines made for it.

Has taken every critter that exists on the American Continents. And does most everything in a very nice package. Kills at one end and does not maim at the other.

If you are looking for 300 plus ranges, look else where. But in 56 years of shooting and hunting, I can't remember a hunting shot over 150 yards. The ole' 30-30 does all that just fine.

Go figure.

Fred

blackops
August 16, 2010, 01:09 AM
Handgun round - 10mm, easily the most versatile handgun round out there.

Even though this is a rifle thread, I would agree with this statement.

Abel
August 16, 2010, 06:16 AM
The 35 Remington is a sleeper, at least it was for me. It came out the same time as the 30-06, but isn't chambered in anything much at all today. A 200 grain pill is like the kiss of death on deer. I grew up knowing zero about it & happened to stumble into a good deal on a 35 cal. Marlin 336. Lets just say that I'm awake now. The 260 Remington is another sleeper; the 308 perfected some think. I lean more towards the 7mm-08 in that cartridge group, but my 308 has been nullifying deer life for some time. We could do everything we needed to do with a 22, a 223, a 30-06, and a 338 Win Mag. We are a lucky group to have so many good sleeper picks on top of established ones.

bpl
August 16, 2010, 06:19 AM
I'd probably go with the 260.

Armed012002
August 16, 2010, 07:01 AM
A .30 caliber cartridge with the same energy as a 30-30 chambered in an AR-15/M-16.

Mp7
August 16, 2010, 07:04 AM
7.62 x 25

There should be carbines for it, as well as hi-cap handguns.

dakotasin
August 16, 2010, 07:26 AM
480 ruger both for handguns and carbines.

LeonCarr
August 16, 2010, 08:46 AM
Hey Blackops,

Had to give kudos to the Ten, and I think Olympic makes/used to make an AR in that caliber. There, now it is rifle related :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

chieftain
August 16, 2010, 08:57 AM
A .30 caliber cartridge with the same energy as a 30-30 chambered in an AR-15/M-16.

It already exists, it is called the 7.62X39 "ComBloc". You know what the original AK47 and SKS were chambered in. Now several folks put them in AR type rifles.

PTR makes a HK knockoff for it, and it is available in the Robinson XCR too.

Good choice.

Go figure.

Fred

Al LaVodka
August 16, 2010, 09:10 AM
.357 Maximum...

...in a revolver that can handle it w/out severe gas-jet cutting (it is only 40,000 PSI) as well as a lever-action carbine mechanism that is just long enough to handle its 1.99" OAL too and squeeze what it can out of the case!

It is the 21st C. and those big handgun calibers are coming into their own. I think the .357 Maximum has a LOT to offer and I'd like to see it developed and survive. Besides the universal use of guns chambered in it using .357's and .38's too, the guns could be kept relatively small, the ultimate matching handgun/carbine rifle chambering is useful, and I think the penetration capabilities are excellent.

Al


Cart., Bullet Dia., Bullet Weight (grs), FPS, Energy ft./lbs., Ballistic Coefficient

357 Mag, .357, 158, 1,500, 800, .16

357 Rem. Maximum, .357, 170, 2,000, 1,500, .18

44 Mag, .429, 240, 1,500, 1,200, .17

454 Casull, .452, 335, 1,600, 1,900, .19

460 S&W, .452, 300, 2,100, 2,800, .19

480 Ruger, .475, 325, 1,400, 1,300, ?

500 S&W, .500, 400, 1,800, 2,900, .19

USSR
August 16, 2010, 09:57 AM
.280Rem/7mm Express. D@mn near perfect case capacity to bore ratio.

Don

Legionnaire
August 16, 2010, 09:58 AM
I know it has had a long history and dedicated following, but it seems to me that TODAY the .30-06 Springfield is somewhat of a sleeper. Mostly displaced by the .308 Win--and a whole raft of uber- and supershort magnums--the '06 still gets it done, quietly and confidently. For the reloader, the cartridge provides countless variations in loads and velocities. Yes, it's the 21st century ... but the '06 is a classic that no longer gets the respect it deserves.

colonelhogan44
August 16, 2010, 10:01 AM
8mm Mauser, 338-06

Al LaVodka
August 16, 2010, 10:30 AM
+1 Legionnaire, but as the .30-06 Ackley Improved -- what I call the .308 Magnum. The round is 100 FPS faster than the standard .30-06 due to minimal case changes and guns chambered in it can still fire those standard .30-06's!
Al

engineerbrian
August 16, 2010, 10:36 AM
+1 on the 8mm Mauser and the 10mm. Good call so far guys, all of these calibers (along with many others) are what seperate the gun nuts from the average shooter.

Pilot
August 16, 2010, 10:39 AM
.38 Super for the 1911. I need to get one of these and start reloading for it.

6.5x55 Swedish Mauser which the .260 Remington duplicates in a shorter cartridge. Both underated IMHO.

TexasPatriot.308
August 16, 2010, 12:15 PM
7mm-08 and or 6.5 x 55, perfect for just about all North American game shy of grizzlies or moose. even in Europe it is a moose round though they are not as big boddies as North American moose.

taliv
August 16, 2010, 12:18 PM
480 ruger both for handguns and carbines.

agree w/dakota

snakeman
August 16, 2010, 12:36 PM
Hunting rifle - 260 rem and 8x57 mauser are both sleepers
Handgun 7.62x25 tokarev

I have shot deer with the mauser round and watched them slam like nothing else.

Captcurt
August 16, 2010, 01:23 PM
.260 would be mine. Great parent case, great selection of bullets. Wish it were chambered in more factory rifles.
I like the 260 also. Shot a couple of whitetails with. Very nice round.

Float Pilot
August 16, 2010, 01:45 PM
Rifle cartridges being very much unrated and ignored (currently):

6.5x55mm Super accuracy, good killing power low recoil.

(260) is a short version of the 65.x55 ballistically.

35 Whelen,

358 Win what the 338 federal wants to be when it grows up.

338-06

7x57mm,

250 Savage aka 250-3000 it was cool , before anyone was sure what cool was....

Palehorseman
August 16, 2010, 03:07 PM
6.5x55 Swede and the Russian 7.62x54 don't get the respect they deserve as hunting rounds.

Sebastian the Ibis
August 16, 2010, 03:21 PM
7.62 x 39 - in a bolt action. It is dang near perfect as a deer round in a bolt action at any distance deer are normally taken. There is a tremendous array of ammo out there from mil-surp to soft point hunting loads. And you can buy a box of ammo for under $4!!! There is no western cartridge that you can buy cheaper.

7.62 x 54r - the cheapest full power round you can purchase. I think Caribou has killed just about every large dangerous animal in North America with it. I just wish Marlin chambered an XL-7 combo in this caliber.

5.45x39 - the cheapest varmint round you can buy. It is half the price of 17 hmr and 2x as capable. I wish CZ or someone chambered a 527 in this caliber. So what if I have to clean the gun, I do it anyway. .22 LR is the only thing cheaper, it is also the only thing dirtier.

Everyone gets excited about the super duper magnum whatever, but they never shoot it because it is so dang expensive. No thanks, I'll take the cheap ammo and lots of practice over a nominal difference in performance.

AirForceShooter
August 16, 2010, 03:43 PM
My Guess.
327 Mag

AFS

Jeremy2171
August 16, 2010, 03:45 PM
7.35mm Carcano.....yup I said it.....

Hatterasguy
August 16, 2010, 04:28 PM
5.45x39, and 7.5x55 Swiss.

7.62x54R is also a very good round, for hunting it can probably take down just about anything in North America.

Justin Holder
August 16, 2010, 04:41 PM
6.5-06

Greg Koziol
August 16, 2010, 04:48 PM
.45-70

Everything thinks it's slow and weak because of the factory loads but in a modern marlin 1895 you can buy ammo or load ammot almost up to .458 win mag levels. It's been proven on all of the africa's big 5 and big 6.

It is the most versatile cartridge you could own.. you can load it up or down depending on what you want to use it for (coyotes/varmints or dangrous game, self defense) or you can buy bullets from 250 grains up to 550 grains, i've even saw 100 grain bullets for sale... very versatile and in a lever action rifle it gives you numerous follow up shots more than a bolt action and faster follow ups

Flfiremedic
August 16, 2010, 04:49 PM
35 Whelen and 7mm08.

KodiakBeer
August 16, 2010, 05:38 PM
.350 Rem Mag. You get .35 Whelen ballistics (actually, slightly hotter) in a short action. Really, it's the perfect North American game cartridge.

W.E.G.
August 16, 2010, 05:40 PM
The .69 RVW

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/humor/RipVanWinkle.jpg

rozziboy18
August 16, 2010, 05:55 PM
+1 10MM 1 mean semi auto cal.

7wsm/270wsm/338 fed.

.338 fed is mine, mean enough to kill deer and black bear but not so mean that it distroys all the meat on the anamal. all tat in a ar15 platform.

Justin Holder
August 16, 2010, 05:56 PM
The problem with the 350 Rem mag is it's better suited to lighter bullet weights while most 35 Whelens can effectively use heaver 250gr. bullets.

KodiakBeer
August 16, 2010, 06:05 PM
The problem with the 350 Rem mag is it's better suited to lighter bullet weights while most 35 Whelens can effectively use heaver 250gr. bullets.

200 and 250 grains were (are) the standard factory loads. With either weight, you get slightly more powder capacity than the Whelen.

paintballdude902
August 16, 2010, 06:06 PM
.30-30 and .45 colt.

.30-30 may not be a high speed low drag cartridge today but it was in its day.

if you have a .45 colt rifle and hand load you can load the thing into a mini .45-70

Geno
August 16, 2010, 06:10 PM
IMHO, the choice is hands-down the lowly .22LR.

Geno

Al LaVodka
August 16, 2010, 06:13 PM
Can we ask people with ComBlock guns to just stop telling us what they own please?
Thanks;
Al
PS: The .327 Mag can't be a sleeper -- it hasn't woken up yet. But give it time!

kcmarine
August 16, 2010, 06:43 PM
Second on the boltie 7.62x39mm Soviet. It's a catch 22 on demand for that, though. 7.62 Soviet isn't in high demand in the bolt action community because bolt action owners want an "inherently accurate" cartridge. The imported 7.62x39mm Soviet ammunition isn't horrible, but it is far, FAR from match grade. If you found a wider market for brass and reloading components (and commercial ammo) in that caliber, you'd find more people wanting bolt action rifles chambered for it. Problem is, I don't think any domestic cartridge makers want to compete with the cheap stuff. Can't solve one problem without the other.

I think there is hope though... the AR-15 market is pretty saturated, so it's possible the AK might be the next "big thing" in black rifles. If AKs come out as more precision-made rifles than they are now, it might spur an interest in using the platform for more competition-oriented shooting. Then the big boys will be making stuff for it.

Hornady's offering of more Soviet loads in their catalog is a good sign.

Sebastian the Ibis
August 16, 2010, 07:48 PM
I agree with you kcmarine. I think also shows how most shooters shoot at fixed distances from a bench. It won't make pretty shamrock groups at the range but Wolf 7.62x39 is plenty accurate for offhand shooting, or a quick shot resting against a tree.

336A
August 16, 2010, 07:49 PM
My vote is for the 30WCF and the lever actions that house it, they are all to often overlooked today. Yeah I bought into the hype when I was younger that I had to have the latest and greatest. Or that one really needed to have a 30-06, .308, 7mm mag, or .270 Win in order to be a truly succesful hunter so that you can make those all to common 300+ yd shots. After few years reality hit me in the head like a 10 pound sledge hammer.
I realized at that point in time that I had not once taken a deer over 100yd. I hated the awkward feeling of toting that long barreled bolt gun into the thick woods. I bought me a Marlin .30WCF soon after that and all is well.

Few firearms scream Americana such as the lever action rifle. Unlike the bolt action the lever action was originated and designed right here in the good Ol' United States of America, the same can't be said of the bolt ation. The .30WCF may be out of fashion and old school to many but that is fine with me, many to include my wife say the same about me. I'm sure that the the 30WCF will out last all of us here and still be putting game on the table. As more modern and new cartridges come and slide into obscurity the .30WCF will still be trundeling on as it has been doing for over a century.

Jeff F
August 16, 2010, 07:58 PM
I will throw in a vote for the .303 British.

USAFRetired
August 16, 2010, 08:08 PM
^^^^^^ Hazzah!!!

Bluenote
August 16, 2010, 08:16 PM
.35 whelen has been mentioned , likewise .260 , .45-70 and a whole slew of other nice cartridges.

But am I the only one still shooting a .257 Roberts?

Howard Roark
August 16, 2010, 08:58 PM
The .260 is not ignored by competitive shooters. It was used to win the nationals this year at Perry and set a new high score record. The same person used it to set the record for the highest 800 point and 1000 point agg scores ever shot across the course.

nastynatesfish
August 16, 2010, 09:48 PM
How bout the .577 tyranasaurus. Never seen the pistol but the ammo is tough looking, like an acient 500 sw. Then maybe the 11.3mm mauser

Float Pilot
August 16, 2010, 09:51 PM
Quote:
The problem with the 350 Rem mag is it's better suited to lighter bullet weights while most 35 Whelens can effectively use heaver 250gr. bullets.
200 and 250 grains were (are) the standard factory loads. With either weight, you get slightly more powder capacity than the Whelen

The 350 Remington Magnum (The first short action magnum) Does not suffered as a cartridge from problems with long and heavy bullets.

That problem is with the rifle magazine box length and the rifle twist being offered.
For example: I shoot 275 grain bullets from my 350 Rem Mag because it is a Ruger stainless with a better twist rate and a slightly longer magazine box. Remington goofed on both counts.
Not only with the 350 Rem Mag, but also their 35 Whelen rifles which use a 1-16 twist.

gun guy
August 17, 2010, 12:56 AM
How about the 338/378 weatherby magnum. Zero a 300 gr bthp at 1,500 meters an go huntin.

blackops
August 17, 2010, 12:59 AM
It seems the 260 has most the votes from the THR base.

Robert Wilson
August 17, 2010, 01:10 AM
I can't think of any "sleeper" rifle cartridges. Every cartridge I can think of is essentially duplicated by at least one other cartridge, or is so close to some other more popular cartridge as to be pointless. When people start touting an additional 100 FPS I have to resist the urge to hold a ballistics chart up to their faces. If we were a rational species there would be maybe a half dozen rifle cartridges in existence.

And the .257 Roberts would be one of them, Bluenote. :)

benzy2
August 17, 2010, 01:41 AM
The .260 is not ignored by competitive shooters. It was used to win the nationals this year at Perry and set a new high score record. The same person used it to set the record for the highest 800 point and 1000 point agg scores ever shot across the course.
Did you see the rifle used to win at Perry? Not your off the shelf Remington. Competitive shooters have been looking at the 6.5mm and 7mm bullets for a while now. You get the drop and wind drift of a big 7.62 magnum without the recoil. The .260 is a fairly good blend of barrel life to velocity. Some are faster and wear faster, others slower with a longer life, but it makes for a good middle ground. My problem is the availability of factory built rifles and of quality factory ammo. Federal has three hunting loads, Remington has a managed recoil load and a core-lokt load. Not much selection.

ms6852
August 17, 2010, 01:50 AM
I think its the 243 winchester. Great deer rifle and great for long range shooting to 1000 yards.

janobles14
August 17, 2010, 02:13 AM
hands down its the 6.5 grendel! hard hitting and flat as can be. you can stack it on about any platform but it hasnt been taken up that greatly. huge man stopper and can drop any game you wanna shoot in north america. reloading from 7.62x39 cases is easy as pie. as accurate as round can get and imho dominates the venerated 6.8 spc. long and short range ballistics are fantastic and i can use my same mags!

and i want one!

R.W.Dale
August 17, 2010, 02:43 AM
Not a cartridge but for me a case family.

The WSSM case offers a boatload of potential for the AR15 and other length restricted platforms.

Kernel
August 17, 2010, 03:05 AM
7-30 Waters.... .375 Winchester.... .307 Winchester..... .356 Winchester..... .30-30 Ackley Improved.... .444 Marlin..... Huge orphans, and undeservedly so.

Basically, any rifle cartridge that fits a Model 94 action... other than the plain old .30-30. Because the .30-30 ain't a sleeper. It's still one of, if not THE, top selling hunting cartridges. These other ones... not so much.

All those and the 7 WSM. The OP was right on that one. AND whoever said the .280 Rem was also right. Those two Seven Mike Mikes deserve a lot more love.

CraigC
August 17, 2010, 10:05 AM
5.45x39 - the cheapest varmint round you can buy. It is half the price of 17 hmr and 2x as capable. I wish CZ or someone chambered a 527 in this caliber. So what if I have to clean the gun, I do it anyway. .22 LR is the only thing cheaper, it is also the only thing dirtier.
Don't think that's a very fair comparison, for either. All the .17HMR ammo on the market is premium quality and I don't know anywhere else you can buy a $300 rifle that shoots half-MOA. All the 5.45 ammo that I see is the cheapest stuff possible and none loaded with good varmint bullets.


7-30 Waters.... .375 Winchester.... .307 Winchester..... .356 Winchester..... .30-30 Ackley Improved.... .444 Marlin..... Huge orphans, and undeservedly so.

Basically, any rifle cartridge that fits a Model 94 action... other than the plain old .30-30. Because the .30-30 ain't a sleeper. It's still one of, if not THE, top selling hunting cartridges. These other ones... not so much.
I agree, there have been some great cartridges chambered in the 94 that never really caught on. Some recently duplicated to a certain extent with the .308 and .338 Marlin Express cartridges. I'd still love to have a 7-30, .375 and .356. It was also a bummer that they reintroduced the .38-55 and .25-35 right before going belly-up. I got excited about that!

I also have no idea why anybody would consider the .30-30 a "sleeper". It's been doing the deed for over 100yrs and is still one of the top sellers in both loaded ammunition and reloading dies.

HexHead
August 17, 2010, 11:37 AM
7.62 x 25

There should be carbines for it, as well as hi-cap handguns.
Semi- auto version PPsh-41, though it's considered a SBR.

http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae8/SoldierFront92/Weapons/ppsh41-01.jpg

The semi-auto ones run about $600-700.

Rodman30
August 17, 2010, 11:40 AM
+1 on the 303 british

EmbarkChief
August 17, 2010, 01:44 PM
Rifle: .280 Rem and .220 swift
Pistol: 10mm hands down with .38 super a close second.

HOOfan_1
August 17, 2010, 02:24 PM
+1 on the 303 british

.303 British isn't popular in America, but it was immensely popular in England, Australia and parts of Africa where the British have been.

What about the 7.7x58 Arisaka...it is rimless and was based off of the .303 Biritsh.

I think the .280 Rem is under-appreciated, but not sure it is a sleeper

StoneDog
August 17, 2010, 03:00 PM
I used a 7x64 Brenneke(sp?) over in South Africa last year. Great cartridge and basically the same as .280 Rem. Would have to echo the votes for smaller .260 Rem and bigger .35 Whelen.

Sebastian the Ibis
August 17, 2010, 08:08 PM
Don't think that's a very fair comparison, for either. All the .17HMR ammo on the market is premium quality and I don't know anywhere else you can buy a $300 rifle that shoots half-MOA. All the 5.45 ammo that I see is the cheapest stuff possible and none loaded with good varmint bullets.

That's exactly the point. There is nothing cheaper than 5.45x39, except .22 lr. For $120 you can buy a 1,000 rnd + spam can of 5.45, giving you 400+ rounds of practice over purchasing an equivalent amount of 17hmr.

Also, I am guessing without knowing, that a group of surplus 5.45 shot at 200ish yds from a decent bolt rifle, is smaller than the bullet drop of .17hmr from 175-225yds. When does .17hmr go subsonic anyways? I can't measure distance that accurately to work out the bullet drop and be effective at shooting squirrels/ground hogs etc. with 17 hmr at those ranges. 17hmr can't really be used on anything bigger. However, 5.45 would still be relatively flat shooting out to 200 yds, it is similar to .223. If you are shooting offhand, and are not an olympic class shooter, then any accuracy difference between 5.45 and 17hmr is moot anyways. Also, the Russians have been using 5.45 for years on game as large and dangerous as homo sapien.

If I were shooting 100's of rounds at paper from a bench for the tiniest groups, then sure 17hmr would be better. I also appreciate you can buy a cheap rifle.

However, the OP is looking for the most under appreciated round. I think 5.45x39 certainly qualifies, since there is by far more cheap ammo in that caliber than anything else. Nobody can dispute that- even re loaders. And, AFAIK there are only a few hundred SSG82 5.45 bolt rifles in the county. Only one is for sale now on gunbroker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=185591830

I'll put my money where my mouth is and mail anyone $1 if they can name a caliber with fewer bolt action rifles, and more available ammo in the USA.

Al LaVodka
August 17, 2010, 09:10 PM
.30-30 Ackley Improved.... Huge orphans, and undeservedly so.

Basically, any rifle cartridge that fits a Model 94 action... other than the plain old .30-30. Because the .30-30 ain't a sleeper. It's still one of, if not THE, top selling hunting cartridges.

An Ackley Improved anything adds about 100 FPS to its velocity (which is a gemoetric increase in energy). By itself, that may not be sufficient. But they also still fire the original cartridge: a big positive and probably no negative. So guns would be chambered for it rather than a new cartridge developed or even many made. For the .30-06 Ackley Improved, to the decent reader, over a competitive .308 it makes it worthwhile and eliminates much of the perceived need for the Marketing Department's "Magnum." Oooga, put a belt on that bad boy! And sell more recoil pads...

.30-06 Ackley Improved: the .308 Magnum!

Al

steelhead
August 17, 2010, 09:18 PM
7mm-08

CraigC
August 18, 2010, 02:15 AM
That's exactly the point. There is nothing cheaper than 5.45x39, except .22 lr. For $120 you can buy a 1,000 rnd + spam can of 5.45, giving you 400+ rounds of practice over purchasing an equivalent amount of 17hmr.
Yeah and like I said, you have 1000rds of el cheapo ammo you can't use for anything but paper punching or plinking. The .17HMR is a field round, all the factory ammo is premium quality. It ain't a plinker and ain't meant to be. Cheap ain't everything and I don't even understand why you feel the need to compare the two.


Also, I am guessing without knowing, that a group of surplus 5.45 shot at 200ish yds from a decent bolt rifle, is smaller than the bullet drop of .17hmr from 175-225yds. When does .17hmr go subsonic anyways? I can't measure distance that accurately to work out the bullet drop and be effective at shooting squirrels/ground hogs etc. with 17 hmr at those ranges. 17hmr can't really be used on anything bigger. However, 5.45 would still be relatively flat shooting out to 200 yds, it is similar to .223. If you are shooting offhand, and are not an olympic class shooter, then any accuracy difference between 5.45 and 17hmr is moot anyways. Also, the Russians have been using 5.45 for years on game as large and dangerous as homo sapien.
A bunch of nonsense from somebody who obviously never spent any time with the .17HMR. The .17 is incredibly flat-shooting, with a 100yd zero, it drops only about 8" at 250yds. Again, with a bullet intended for use on game. Not intended to adhere to The Hague Convention.


However, the OP is looking for the most under appreciated round. I think 5.45x39 certainly qualifies, since there is by far more cheap ammo in that caliber than anything else.
That may be true but you don't have to compare it to the .17HMR to make your point.

trex1310
August 18, 2010, 04:53 AM
7 X 57 (7mm Mauser) great deer round.

Afy
August 18, 2010, 05:03 AM
7.5 Swiss: Great semi auto cartridge. Very accurate as well.
.260 Rem/6.5x47 Lapua: great ballistics for long range. Highly accurate.
.30 BR: For score and agg.

I dont hunt.. so am more interested in accuracy.

MATTHEW QUIGLEY
August 18, 2010, 10:27 AM
.358 Winchester
.257 Roberts
.338 Federal
In bolt guns, the 7.62X39

kludge
August 18, 2010, 10:59 AM
krochus, if you think the WSSM's would be great in the AR platform, you should look at the .358 Grant (shortened WSM case). You could apply the same principle for the 6.5 and 7mm calibers.


In no particular order, starting at the lower calibers and working up

.257 Roberts
6.5x55 Swede
.260 (especially in the AR-10 platform)
.280 (arguably better than the .30-06)
7mm-08 (popular, but way under appreciated)
.284 Win (this WILL be the next big 1,000 yard cartridge after they've wrung everything they can out of the 6.5-.284)
7mm WSM (this will be the cartridge they look to after they've wrung everything they can out of the .284)
8mm-06 (arguably better than the .30-06, forgotten when the 8mm Mauser supply dropped)
338-06 (arguably better than the .30-06)
.358 Win (if it weren't for being introduced in a lever action and round nose factory loads -- I know, I know, it was also introduced in the Model 70 Featherweight *ouch* -- this would be the do-it-all short action 35 cal for everything in NA out to 300+ yards -- which is where most game is taken. Instead it's a "brush gun".)

tinygnat219
August 18, 2010, 11:04 AM
I'd have to say the 6.5 Grendel. The slippery ballistics of the 6.5 mm bullet coupled with the shortness of the cartridge give this a NICE "smackability" at long ranges.

Another one I'd say is the 7.62X39. This is generally used for blasting out of SKS and AK-47 rifles. However, throw it into a bolt action when it's been handloaded and WOW.

Sheepdog1968
August 18, 2010, 11:07 AM
I'm going to say the 30-30. When I tell folks that's my deer rifle caliber, quite a few think I'm under powered. I'm not going after grizzlies with it.

billfrombyron
August 18, 2010, 11:28 AM
I would have to say 45-70 for its versitility.

8mm Mauser for its reloadibility and power.

6.5X55 sweed, 6.5 Grendel, .260 rem, and .458 Socom for the cool factor.

-Bill

doc2rn
August 18, 2010, 11:37 AM
.221 Swift
.41 magnum
28g

UnTainted
August 18, 2010, 12:47 PM
45-70 and 375hh

Clipper
August 18, 2010, 12:48 PM
...I have to agree the .257 Roberts doesn't get a fraction of the respect it deserves, except by those who shoot one. That's why it's one of the hardest calibers (around here) to find on the used gun racks. Noone that has one will give it up.

TexasPatriot.308
August 18, 2010, 04:45 PM
you mean the .257 Roberts, dont ya?

Arkansas Paul
August 18, 2010, 05:29 PM
I'll vote for the .280 Rem.

scotjute
August 18, 2010, 05:30 PM
the Big Fifty : 50-90 Sharps! They came out with it and the buffalo herds disappeared! Since then its been sleeping a lot. Supposedly big enough for any land animal on this planet.

Curator
August 18, 2010, 06:57 PM
.260 Remington, .35 Whelen, and .257 Roberts in that order.

Centaur 1
August 19, 2010, 03:23 PM
30-30

tactikel
August 19, 2010, 09:47 PM
The .25-06, with the .260 a close second.

tomt
August 19, 2010, 10:00 PM
It's funny nobody has mentioned the 30-378 Weatherby Magnum. Able to launch an 180 gr at 3500fps.

Big Bill
August 19, 2010, 10:07 PM
25-06

It should be much more popular.

Al LaVodka
August 19, 2010, 10:59 PM
?
Al

Big Bill
August 20, 2010, 01:07 AM
I've owned both a 243 and 25-06. I kept the 25-06. The 25-06 does everything (and more) that the 243 does - only better and faster.

Dr T
August 20, 2010, 11:02 AM
In a carbine: 460 S&W. It is incredibly easy to handload, and a TC Encore with a 20" barrel is light, easy to carry, and accurate.

In a light varmint rifle (CZ): 221 Fireball

jem375
August 20, 2010, 11:10 AM
My sleeper cartridge is the 375JDJ.... I have a SSK Industries T/C Contender pistol with a 15" barrel and a T/C G2 Contender rifle in this caliber and it is really a keeper for hunting just about anything on the earth...

Owen
August 20, 2010, 11:13 AM
300 Whisper

jkingrph
August 20, 2010, 03:08 PM
9.3x57

ccsniper
August 20, 2010, 03:34 PM
I am waiting on someone to take a 7.62x25 and neck it down to .22

lefteyedom
August 21, 2010, 01:33 AM
270 Winchester

If the question was which calibers gets over looked by the shooting (spit hack cough) press today. The 270 Winchester like the 30/06 are the major sleeper cartridges. The 270 still shoots very flat, kicks mildly and will get the job done on Coyotes to Elk.
The (pun alert) gum press is all about selling new products. Chewing our ears about how much better short magnums, belt-less magnums, and short action rifle are so much better than what came before. Guess we need 4X16X56 scopes now that deer can not be seen in fix 4 powers and 3X9 variable.

Nothing wrong with the new stuff but frankly none of the "new" really works any better in the field than the old.

Sepiid
August 21, 2010, 03:59 AM
i gotta say the 22lr
it is a darn good round if you can aim.

d vader
August 21, 2010, 09:18 AM
My vote is for the 325wsm,a great elk moose and bear cartridge

M&PVolk
August 21, 2010, 11:20 AM
6.5 Grendel. Why this cartridge isn't all over the place and flying off the shelves I do not know. It turns the lightweight AR 15 platform into a hardcore distance gun with awesome ballistics.

Aside from the Grendel, I would say the 30-06. It can be loaded with amazing versatility and will get the job done on just about any popular wild game. It somehow gets overlooked with the wide variety of larger guns today.

In handguns, the .44 mag is going through the same issue as the 30-06 is in rifles, being passed up by hand canon .454 and above.

52grain
August 21, 2010, 01:13 PM
.260 would be mine. Great parent case, great selection of bullets. Wish it were chambered in more factory rifles.

In a few years when it comes time to rebarrel my .308 I'll probably have it done in .260. Wish there were more factory rounds and rifles in that caliber.

aka108
August 21, 2010, 01:17 PM
6.5 Swede, 303, 30-06 and 8mm mauser. So old, so good. They will continue to be around long after the gunwriters new sweethearts are no longer. No one pays much attention to these any more since the big money goes in marketing the newer stuff.

hotajax
August 21, 2010, 09:12 PM
My personal fav is the 7mm Mauser. Been around for a hundred years and earned its keep

HOOfan_1
August 22, 2010, 12:26 AM
In a light varmint rifle (CZ): 221 Fireball

I've seen someone suggest the FN 5.7x28 as a bolt gun. As far as I know, only FN makes the ammo, only 2 guns shoot it (P90 and FN Five-Seven)...so FN probably has sole rights to produce guns for it and the ammo. The 5.7x28 is about the size of a .22 Hornet...and a tiny bit smaller than the .221 Fireball....so yeah I think the .221 Fireball should be due for a comeback as a light bolt gun cartridge.

tailfeathers
August 26, 2010, 01:19 PM
The 7mm-08 is better...:>)

Loosenock
August 26, 2010, 02:03 PM
338-06 gets my vote. Had two of 'em. Excellent cartridge for anything in the western hemisphere.

Dr T
August 26, 2010, 03:31 PM
It is my observation that many of the cartridges listed as "sleepers" are extremely popular in practice (e.g. 30-06, 270, 25-06, 7 x 57,8 x 57,etc) if not in the press. This is more of a comment on the press than it is on the performance of the cartridge.

Maybe we should just "re-brand" these cartridges.

Remington did it with the 280 (7mm Remington Express). I recently read a humor piece in one of the Wolfe magazines (Handloader/Rifle) about the .300 Whelen (30-06).

A massive re-branding effort would give the shooting press something to write about and keep them off the streets...And we may get some new load data out of the mix and they try to extract more performance with some of the new reloading components...

SwampWolf
August 26, 2010, 03:34 PM
My votes go to two of my favorite: the .358 Winchester and the 7X64 Brenneke-Europe's .280 Remington but around a lot longer.

Dr T
August 27, 2010, 12:02 AM
Ummm--That would be something like a 7 mm Whelen Express?

336A
August 27, 2010, 08:39 PM
.38-55 Winchester

WalkAbout
August 27, 2010, 09:12 PM
.204 Ruger

There should be more guns chambered in this round.

b

husker
August 27, 2010, 10:41 PM
.177 pellet
Behind 10 or 12 PUMPS

Hangingrock
August 27, 2010, 11:23 PM
105mm HEAT-MP-T High Exlplosive Anti-Tank, Multi-Purpose with Tracer :what::what::what::what:;)

handloader357
August 28, 2010, 02:34 AM
.22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer
FTW!

TRGFTJob
August 29, 2010, 02:21 AM
my personal vote, maybe not as THE major sleeper, but definitely a sleeper, is the 7.62x39 round (I am a little biased), I believe its fiercely underrated mostly due to the profusion of low quality ak's and sks's. Its a spectacular deer round at the 100 yard mark, but 99% of hunters I've talked with claim its too underpowered and too inaccurate

Ignition Override
August 29, 2010, 02:34 AM
aka108:
Hasn't the 'British' .303 taken more large game around the planet than any other caliber, even though it predated many modern calibers?

Jefferson Herb
August 29, 2010, 03:23 AM
.275 Rigby....................................................................................7x57

Abel
August 29, 2010, 11:02 AM
32 Winchester Special.

peabody
August 29, 2010, 12:42 PM
6.5x55 swiss and the .250 savage

Water-Man
August 29, 2010, 01:06 PM
6.5x55 Swede.

BullRunBear
August 29, 2010, 01:45 PM
6.5x55 Swede. Shoot it all day without bruising or discomfort and take anything from elk down to deer. My Swedish Mauser is 105 years old and shows its age but the bolt moves like glass on ice. Just a pleasure to use. Always amazed it isn't more popular.

30-06. Yeah, it's still popular but underutilized. In my WW I era 03 Springfield I load round ball gallery loads good to fifty yards and reduced power cast bullet rounds accurate to 200 yards. Or full house loads for the Garand that can do about anything a rifle needs to do. The 30-06: it's not just for old wars anymore. :D

Jeff

USSR
August 29, 2010, 03:09 PM
Me thinks some guys are clueless regarding the term "sleeper", when they list cartridges that that are sold and shot in the millions.

Don

Water-Man
August 29, 2010, 03:13 PM
Then there are those guys that are clueless that can't figure out that those other guys are referring to under-appreciated calibers. :rolleyes:

Harley Quinn
August 29, 2010, 03:32 PM
I have always felt the 35 Remington is one underrated...

It is in todays reloading, and pistol comparison as in .357, it is way better...

And it has a real killing capacity if within 100 yds or so...IMHO

Ky Larry
August 29, 2010, 03:57 PM
.240 Weatherby Mag, Roy Weatherby's favorite round.

Ozark Guy
August 29, 2010, 04:17 PM
.35 Remington. 200 gr @ 2250 fps will take any North American game. Lots of rifles chambered in .35 Rem in 1940's -1960's. Manageable recoil with great knockdown power. Don't see the caliber much today, but a great cartridge.

CraigC
August 29, 2010, 04:21 PM
As far as I know, only FN makes the ammo, only 2 guns shoot it (P90 and FN Five-Seven)...so FN probably has sole rights to produce guns for it and the ammo.
Far as I know only FN produces ammo but there are 5.7 uppers for the AR platform as well as barrels for the T/C single shots.

Abel
August 29, 2010, 04:45 PM
.35 Remington. 200 gr @ 2250 fps will take any North American game. Lots of rifles chambered in .35 Rem in 1940's -1960's. Manageable recoil with great knockdown power. Don't see the caliber much today, but a great cartridge.

The Marlin 336 is still chambered for it & Remington's Custom Shop will do the Model 7 in 35. Very under rated, very deadly on North American deer of every size. I'd take mine for moose in a second.

Maverick223
August 29, 2010, 05:12 PM
.280Rem/7mm Express. D@mn near perfect case capacity to bore ratio.I completely agree, and would add the .260Rem. for the exact same reason. IMO they are the two best general purpose cartridges; I find it mind-boggling that other similar cartridges are significantly more popular.

Other honorable mentions include the 9.3x64mmBrenneke, .375H&H (both are better choices than the ever-popular .338WM for large/dangerous game IMO), .35Whelen (just enough thump), .460S&W/.410cal Scattergun (in a SxS, dual-chambered like the "Judge"), and .357Sig (would be perfect if chambered in carbines). The 7mm-08Rem. is starting to catch hold, but I still can't fathom why it hasn't completely beat the .308Win. out of the market (though I believe the .260Rm. is better than both).

:)

blackops
December 31, 2010, 10:20 PM
The 260 seems to be a common choice.

Adair
December 31, 2010, 10:33 PM
I think I would say 280 Rem or 284 Win.

Coal Dragger
December 31, 2010, 11:13 PM
Don't forget the .280AI... my own personal bias.

bachekermooni
February 5, 2011, 09:08 AM
7-08 in both single-shot handguns and rifles.

vinpar092
February 5, 2011, 07:18 PM
I must agree with blackops with the 7mm WSM. Never hear about it and is a very impressive round. I do not personally have one, but a friend shoots it in a Savage. Very impressive.

Vince

conhntr
February 5, 2011, 07:53 PM
22lr cant be rated high enough.

28lx
February 5, 2011, 10:03 PM
The .260 is not ignored by competitive shooters. It was used to win the nationals this year at Perry and set a new high score record. The same person used it to set the record for the highest 800 point and 1000 point agg scores ever shot across the course.
The 260 is only ignored by rifle manufacturers.

28lx
February 5, 2011, 10:09 PM
I think I would say 280 Rem or 284 Win.
The 280 is stuck between the beloved 270 Win and 30-06. I dont see it ever being popular. If a shooter wants a 284. almost all will buy the 7mm mag

Maverick223
February 6, 2011, 12:47 PM
The 280 is stuck between the beloved 270 Win and 30-06. I dont see it ever being popular. If a shooter wants a 284. almost all will buy the 7mm magThat may be, but don't discount the .280Rem. or the .284Win., they afford a better BC and SD than the .270Win. (which is almost identical in diameter), while maintaining the same velocities.

:)

jpwilly
February 6, 2011, 01:15 PM
.260 Rem would solve a lot of todays needs on the battlefield, hunting, and target shooting. The 6.5x55mm for obvious reasons would be my 2nd choice.

gatornavy
February 6, 2011, 03:12 PM
30-06, because nowadays every one seems to think you need a 300 remington ultra mag to get the job done, you can load it hot, low, heavy or light and kill everything effectively with the same rifle!

Fremmer
February 6, 2011, 03:18 PM
How about the .25-06?!?

Accurate with lighter recoil. And a great deer round.

28lx
February 7, 2011, 11:26 AM
I dont consider a 25-06 to be a sleeper. A whole bunch of people that know you dont need a 300 mag for deer and antelope already use one.

vnhill1981
February 7, 2011, 12:30 PM
Another vot for 7mm-08

CraigC
February 7, 2011, 01:04 PM
The .480Ruger was not marketed properly or well received by shooters. It will do 90% of what the mighty .475 will out of sixguns that cost a fraction what a custom .475 does. From a carbine, pushing a 420-430gr to 1500fps, think of it as a 150yd sledgehammer that will take anything on planet earth.

I don't think the 7mm08 or .260Rem have been as popular as they deserve to be.

Harley Quinn
February 7, 2011, 01:15 PM
Hey Craig, what about the 50 AE or the 440 Corbon...;)

Regards
:)

Beacon
February 7, 2011, 03:22 PM
Right now I'm thinking it is the 6.5x284 Norma, esp. since Savage is chambering for it. One of their Weather Warrior's in this caliber would be mighty fine. The round has proven long-range capability, and those 6.5 bullets have superb ballistic co-efficients and sectional density for hunting. On top of that, Savage is chambering it in a long action, which means it will accomodate the long bullets.

Holy cow! I already have a .280 Remington, 6mm Remington, .25-06, .30-06, 444, and .45-70! Maybe I'm a sleeper magnet!! :-)
My .280 is in a 7600. It keeps my 2 7mm Rem Mags company.
(And 28lx is right...the .25-06 is may well be one of the most efficient, effective cartridges out there.)

CraigC
February 7, 2011, 03:50 PM
Actually, I would like to see a lightweight pistol-length carbine in .440Corbon. I'm thinking that it would make a legitimate 200yd deer/elk/moose hammer but would still be shorter and lighter than a .444.

Harley Quinn
February 7, 2011, 05:08 PM
Beacon :D

Craig, the 444 is one I have a bunch of brass in, I was going to load them for the 410 shotgun I have, and push the pressure some:what: have not done it yet...

Gary

Picher
February 7, 2011, 07:15 PM
No doubt about it, the .280 Rem is the sleeper cartridge of the past century. It has greater ballistics than the .270 Win, with bullets heavier than 130 grains, hits harder, and has better trajectory than the .30-06 with a bet less recoil. It was called the 7mm Express for a while. The only reason it's not more popular is that the .270 Win was first and they're so similar, the .280 Rem couldn't gain ground on it.

Another great cartridge that is a sleeper today is the .257 Roberts. It's a hard-hitting cartridge eclipsed by the .25-06.

Elbert P . Suggins
February 7, 2011, 07:54 PM
Looks like an interesting topic so I will add my 2 cents. I went thru every page of this thread and never saw anybody mention the 256 Newton which you can reload Charles Newton was the father of high velocity 30 years ahead of his time in 1906. And also the 8MM Mauser is quite a round.

rsilvers
February 8, 2011, 11:22 AM
I would say 260 Remington. Lapua is making brass for it now though.

Sheepdog1968
February 8, 2011, 03:23 PM
IMO, there are way too many cartridges out there. It seems as if the gunmakers have focused on cartridges rather than advancement of firearms. I think it would be easy to get down to 20 or 30 cartridges that would cover almost everyone's need. As it is, I get annoyed by all the various cartridges I feel that I must keep in stock at home in case I want to take something out for shooting or in case supply gets to be a bit hard. Having said that, I've tried really hard to minimize cartridges (30-30, .308, 30-06, 223, 22 LR, 45-70) and it still feels like too many.

SwampWolf
February 8, 2011, 05:05 PM
IMO, there are way too many cartridges out there. It seems as if the gunmakers have focused on cartridges rather than advancement of firearms. I think it would be easy to get down to 20 or 30 cartridges that would cover almost everyone's need. As it is, I get annoyed by all the various cartridges I feel that I must keep in stock at home in case I want to take something out for shooting or in case supply gets to be a bit hard.

I've never understood that line of thinking. What's wrong with a multitude of choices? New cartridge entrants can foster new and renewed interest in guns/shooting and I say the more calibers/cartridges and the more different types and brands of firearms the better.
I can remember the days when a new cartridge (i.e., the .44 Magnum; the .243 Winchester/.244 Remington; 7mm Remington Magnum, etc.) came along once in a blue moon and caused no end of excitement in the gun world for months and years thereafter. Today, new cartridges are introduced on an almost once per month basis and we've become jaded to what is really a bonanza of choice.
Yes, there are many instances of redundancy and, yes, we probably haven't needed a new cartridge since the introduction of the 30-06. But what's the fun in that? Mind you, I'm no bullet fad follower. I have many firearms that are chambered for many cartridges and calibers (22 different cartridges at last count, including handguns and rifles but not shotguns) and, at last check, the "youngest" ones are the .223/5.56. (1957) and the .338 Magnum (1958). Everything else came before 1957 and most of them decades before. But I would never begrudge innovations in the development of new cartridges, no matter how "unnecessary" some may believe them to be.
There is no need to "stockpile" cartridges you don't want or need. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything. If you like the old "standbys", well, no need to get "annoyed", just stock your cartridge pantry with them and let others decide on what suits them best.
When it comes to guns and bullets, the more the merrier. :)

Maverick223
February 8, 2011, 05:48 PM
When it comes to guns and bullets, the more the merrier.I very much agree. I am unlikely to adopt most new cartridges (for fear of obscurity or complete abandonment), but it doesn't bother me that they exist. After all...every thousand tries or so, they manage to hit on something I like.

:)

Beacon
February 8, 2011, 06:28 PM
It is worthwhile to note that sometimes times change, and cartridges we didn't previously have a use for, now we do. Or sometimes we are just flat out wrong about a cartridge. I can think of 3 cartridges that I discounted when they came out, and now I own them and find them useful. Choices and options are never a bad thing and I would rather have more than less.

gamestalker
February 8, 2011, 07:34 PM
For rifle I have to fo with the .280 Rem.. With the larger selection of bullets and powders now available since it's introduction it is deffinitly a anil driver.
For handgun, I have to include 2, the 41 magnum for it shear unadulterated power and accuracy, and the 10mm.
Regarding the 10mm, it was so popluar and in demand in it's first couple of years of production, and then lost a big chunk of it's fam club rather adbruptly. Many began complaining of the excessive recoil, as if a gun with that kind of stopping power is going to be anything less than noticable to shoot? During it's first couple of years, LE were using it because of it's outstanding performance in both accuracy, and stopping power. But I've taken notice, as I'm sure a lot of the 10mm fans have, that it is showing a pretty good come back. 4 or 5 years ago it had dwindled to just a couple of manufacturer's from what I could tell.
Back to the sleeper's, I have to include the 25-06 as a very fine cartridge. Built around the same cartridge as the .270 win. and the 30-06 gives it some outstanding long range potential with a good slow burning powder.
I know, this was a simple question by the OP and as usual I've turned my answer into a novel. I appologize, but it is so very difficult for someone who absolutly loves any topic that involves firearms to not elaborate excessively. I think that is considered as an obsessive compulsive disorder.

BrocLuno
February 10, 2011, 06:50 PM
7.7 Jap - I like it :)

Bushido81
February 10, 2011, 10:03 PM
For the time being Im real interested in the possibilities 6.5mm offers in rifles, AR type in particular. Also 5.7mm in SMGs and pistols.

NM Mountainman
February 11, 2011, 12:36 AM
Many of the neglected or less common calibers offer advantages over some of the more popular calibers. But to reap the advantages of these less common calibers you usually need to hand load in order to have a good variety of ammo available. Among some some of the best neglected sleepers are:

6mm Remington --If you don't mind using a .30-06 length action, this caliber will generally deliver at least 150 fps more velocity than a .243 (especially with the heavier bullets.)

.280 Remington -- One of the best all around non-magnum big game cartridges available. More versatile than a .270, a little more velocity than a 7mm-08 (with the heavier bullets), and with a 24" barrel it can come within 150 fps or 200 fps of a 7mm Rem Mag with some bullet weights (depending on the individual rifles involved, of course.)

7mm WSM -- Handles bullets from 115gr to 160 gr. quite well. The hand loader can duplicate the ballistics of a 7mm-08, a .280 Rem, or come within 50 fps of a 7mm Rem Mag with bullets weighing 160 gr or less. And with a 23" barrel, it's just as handy as a .270 Win with a 22" barrel. Perfect for the hand loader who wants to be able to hunt any medium or big game in the lower 48 with one rifle.

.338-06 -- Produces a little more velocity and flatter trajectories than a .35 Whelen with equal bullet weights. More velocity and versatility than a .338 Federal.

.358 Norma Magnum -- It is no longer chambered in US made rifles, but it would be a great cartridge to use on an Alaskan moose or big bear hunt. It can deliver as much velocity with a 270 gr. bullet as a .375 H&H can produce with a 300 gr. bullet.

444 Marlin -- Underestimated, under rated, under appreciated. It really shines with hand loads using hard cast bullets or tough jacketed bullets weighing 300 gr. or over.

.450 Marlin -- Most lever action fans are pretty traditional and prefer to use the .45-70 with hand loads which approach or exceed the SAAMI pressure limits. But the Marlin rifle in .450 uses improved metallergy, a different method of barrel threading, and a much stronger brass case to create a rifle/cartridge combo which can safely handle significantly more pressure than a comparable .45-70 lever rifle. And that's without exceeding SAAMI pressure limits!

I agree with the others who say it's great to have such a wonderful variety available.

CraigC
February 11, 2011, 12:25 PM
Variety is the spice of life!

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