A Mosin Nagant Ex-Dragoon


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KodiakBeer
August 16, 2010, 04:57 PM
Well, I finally rec'd my 1926 Izhevsk Arsenal Dragoon. It's sloppily covered in years of lacquer, even on the metal in some places - but, I'll get it cleaned up when I have time. The rifle itself is in almost new condition. All the numbers match and the bore is pristine.

I disassembled it, removed all the cosmoline and shot it a few days ago. Wow! I'm pretty happy. I haven't rung it out on paper, but I was easily able to knock down 4" by 6" plastic cartridge boxes offhand at 100 yards with some cheap Wolf ammo.

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Loosenock
August 16, 2010, 05:42 PM
I'm envious. I've been looking at 'em and looking at em. I almost bought a Finn m39 last weekend at the gun show. I've got Mosinitus bad.

Congratulations, looks like you got a real nice one there. Thanks for sharing it with us.

'Loose

murdoc rose
August 16, 2010, 05:48 PM
are you sure its an ex-dragoon?

KodiakBeer
August 16, 2010, 06:02 PM
Yes, the ex-dragoons are the post WWI Soviet rifles with the sights in meters rather than arshins. They're shorter than the 91/30 and longer than the M38 or M44. In essence, the Soviets just made that length the standard length for a few years.

The nomenclature is confusing, because there are actual pre-Soviet Dragoons out there with the new sights. The "ex" Dragoons weren't actually Dragoons in the first place, just new Soviet rifles made in that length in the 1920's, early 30's.

At any rate, they're good rifles because most of them never saw combat. They were manufactured before the war rush and have better finish. When war did break out, they were issued to rear echelon troops, camp guards, etc, while the front line troops got the shorter M38's.

Classic Arms was selling them, but I don't know if they still have them in stock.

murdoc rose
August 16, 2010, 06:06 PM
That's why I asked, I've never seen an ex-dragoon with the normal sights on them. The 1924 ex-dragoon I just pulled out of the safe to compare too has the blade front site and the curved rear.

KodiakBeer
August 16, 2010, 06:10 PM
That's why I asked, I've never seen an ex-dragoon with the normal sights on them. The 1926 ex-dragoon I just pulled out of the safe to compare too has the blade front site and the curved rear.

There are differences because 3 arsenals made them. Yours was probably partially assembled with leftover pre-Soviet parts. An actual Dragoon would be pre-1917 and have Czarist stamps rather than Soviet markings.

Actually, I think a better term would be something like Soviet "Dragoon Pattern" rifles.

murdoc rose
August 16, 2010, 06:17 PM
"Actually, I think a better term would be something like Soviet "Dragoon Pattern" rifles."

Agreed.

fireman 9731
August 16, 2010, 08:15 PM
I have a 1927 Tula. I like to think of it is a "Dragoon conversion". It is in standard 91/30 form but the 1927 date leaves a little to wonder about.

Either way, its a great shooter and has a much better fit and finish than your average Mosin.

Roc_Kor
August 16, 2010, 09:32 PM
I also have a 1924 91/30 Ex-Dragoon. From what I understand they're pre 91/30 guns converted to 91/30 spec (sights furniture and such)

Mine's in wonderful condition. It does have a Czarist mark that's been stamped over with the Hammer & Sickle. I got it for a steal among a rack of Mosin-Nagants for only about $99 a few years back. I don't think the dealer knew what he had! (And to be fair, I had no idea it was an Ex-Draggy either until later. I picked it out for its Hex receiver and fit and finish.)

16in50calNavalRifle
August 17, 2010, 03:05 AM
Fireman I also have a 1927 Tula "Soviet Dragoon Pattern" rifle. It has what I think is an extractor problem (which I am about to try to fix) but overall the metal work and stampings are very nice. The stock was slimy so I stripped it and I'm cooking the cosmo out of the wood with the sun's heat (figure I'll keep doing it til the big heat is past in SoCal, usually late October) before re-shellacing the wood. I reassemble when I want to go to the range. Been focused on the extraction problem so don't have a good feel for how it shoots, but the bore is in great condition (no counterbore like my M38). When I've solved the mechanical issue(s) and refinished it, I think it will be a favorite.

KodiakBeer
August 17, 2010, 03:38 PM
I have a 1927 Tula. I like to think of it is a "Dragoon conversion". It is in standard 91/30 form but the 1927 date leaves a little to wonder about.


Actually, if you measure it you'll likely find it's about two inches shorter than a 91/30. The Dragoon (as long as it was) was actually the short version issued to cavalry troops.

offthepaper
August 17, 2010, 04:37 PM
16in50

try checking under the lip of the extractor to make sure there is not some crusty cosmo still there. I had a similar problem with 1 of my MN's. Dug out the tiny crap under the lip and the problem went away. this can be done without removing the extractor from the bolt by using a very fine blade slotted screwdriver and a thin piece of cloth.

let us know if this works. we have plenty of MN experts on this site.

caribou
August 18, 2010, 03:55 AM
Most excellent!! An exdragoon was basicly was refit with 91/30 sights and called "good".

If you can hit 4inch X 6 inch targets, you can hunt with it, for sure when you find the ammo it performs best with.........way cool.
Cant beat a Mosin in any configuration :D

Roc_Kor
August 18, 2010, 04:24 AM
Actually, if you measure it you'll likely find it's about two inches shorter than a 91/30. The Dragoon (as long as it was) was actually the short version issued to cavalry troops.
According to http://7.62x54r.net both the Dragoon and the M91/30 are 48.5" long. I think you're thinking of the M91, which is the original Mosin-Nagant model and IS 2 inches longer than the Dragoon/91-30.

The main differences between the Dragoon and the M91/30 are the stocks, barrel bands and sights. Check that website ( http://7.62x54r.net/ ) for all the information you could want on Mosin-Nagants of every flavor.

All Ex-Dragoons are rifles made as Dragoon weapons but updated to 91/30 specs.

KodiakBeer
August 18, 2010, 01:52 PM
I think you're thinking of the M91, which is the original Mosin-Nagant model and IS 2 inches longer than the Dragoon/91-30.

I guess so - thanks!

KodiakBeer
August 18, 2010, 01:57 PM
If you can hit 4inch X 6 inch targets, you can hunt with it, for sure when you find the ammo it performs best with.........way cool.

I was concerned it would shoot high because some people have reported that, but both of them (I bought two, one for my son) were perfect for elevation. Both sights were drifted far to the left for some reason, so it was just a matter of tapping them back to the original factory sighting notch.

fireman 9731
August 18, 2010, 03:31 PM
Both sights were drifted far to the left for some reason

They were sighted in with the bayonets attached. The Ruskies figured that if you were shooting, you should be ready to run someone through as well. The bayonets were never supposed to be taken off during battle.

Thats why many Mosins shoot to one side or the other. Pop on the bayonet and it should correct the problem.

KodiakBeer
August 18, 2010, 03:47 PM
They were sighted in with the bayonets attached. The Ruskies figured that if you were shooting, you should be ready to run someone through as well. The bayonets were never supposed to be taken off during battle.

There is a sighting notch peened into the front of the sight for the original factory zero. When the sight was drifted back to that point, it was dead nuts on (can I say that?) without the bayonet, on both rifles. I didn't know that when I was sighting in the rifles - it was only afterward that I noticed the sighting notch and realized I could have saved myself a lot of trouble. :rolleyes:

I've heard the bayonet zero story before. Maybe it's not true, or maybe the bayonet simply doesn't change the point of impact very much. I'll try to remember to take the bayonet next time I shoot and see how much it changes the point of impact.

I have yet to wring it out on paper from a bench and see just how accurate it really is. On this first trip, I was just having fun shooting offhand at objects and checking function. One nice thing about this Dragoon, is that the forward weight of that long barrel gives it good "hang". It's an easy gun to shoot offhand.

Roc_Kor
August 18, 2010, 08:42 PM
From what I've read, most Mosin models (notable exception being the bayonet-less Coassack rifle [same as Dragoon but no bayonet]) were indeed sighted in with the bayonet but this process was inconsistent.

And that's interesting to know about the sight notch. I'll keep an eye out for that next time I break out and sight in the ol' Draggy.

fireman 9731
August 18, 2010, 10:07 PM
The bayonet theory may also hold more water with the M-44s.

Roc_Kor
August 21, 2010, 12:47 AM
The bayonet theory may also hold more water with the M-44s.
From what I understand M44s do have the same "sighted with the bayonet [extended]" situation but some aren't.

caribou
August 21, 2010, 04:02 AM
Dragoons and Cossak rifles were sighted without the bayonet.
91/30's made from them were sighted with bayonet on like all the rest.

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