It's been a real blood bath in AZ

I'll tell ya. Since the new CCW law, bar/resteraunt bill, and in state ammo bill all passed AZ has gone to hell. Shootings everywhere, not safe anymore anywhere here. News story after news story of the horrors! So many I don't know how they fit the world news in at the end.

Goes to show you gun control works.....wait a minute. There hasn't been one incident yet. No shootings, no massive rioting, no problems at all. How can this be???? I guess we can start trusting our citizens now???

:D I love being in AZ. I hope all reading this continue to track AZ's crime rate continuing to lower and convince your representatives to follow.

Just wait until the mexican president has his say. After all, all those guns in AZ are making it to Mexico! Where the bad-bad-cartels are using them! Shame on you! You're the cause of their problem!

I know. Believe me, in AZ we really worship the Mexican President. He's kinda in the same esteem as our beloved President here. :)

In all seriousness, glad to hear that it's working out well for you guys. I live in the People's Republic of Maryland where there is no chance of carrying. I love Arizona and wish that lived there. For now, I have to settle for visiting.

In all seriousness, glad to hear that it's working out well for you guys. I live in the People's Republic of Maryland where there is no chance of carrying. I love Arizona and wish that lived there. For now, I have to settle for visiting.

Get on your (quasi-) elected representatives. Get them to repeal and change the laws so that Arizona-style carry (MAN, I love saying that!) becomes the norm once again.

To borrow from Mr. Frank Sinatra, if we can make it here, we can make it anywhere. :)

You are letting logic interfere with a politician's agenda. Gun control has ZERO to do with public safety and 100% to do with public control. In countries that have a gun ban there are still violent crimes committed. Japan is pretty much the exception to the rul.

After reading about Japanese gun laws it looks like Japanese police are pretty much like Nazis. They can search you whenever you want, confiscate whatever they want to, arrest you and detain you for up to 28 days. The Japanese police are routinely accused to torture as well. Sounds like the Gestapo to me. The Japanese model is not to be followed as it closely emulates Nazi Germany and Communist Russia.

http://www.davekopel.com/2a/lawrev/japanese_gun_control.htm

In all seriousness, glad to hear that it's working out well for you guys. I live in the People's Republic of Maryland where there is no chance of carrying. I love Arizona and wish that lived there. For now, I have to settle for visiting.

The truth is always on our side. Displaying an armed citizenry is a safe citizenry will spread. There will be in November a bunch of folks on our side running for office, even in Maryland. Find them. Support them.

Oh the horror!!!! Think of the childens!!!! All those evil guns on the streets just waiting to bust a cap and end some poor childens life!!!!


Think of the 5-o!!!!!! Now they is gettin shot from alls over!!!!!!


Oh the humanity!!!!!!!

They said the same thing when Fla got CCW " It will be like the Old West." From what I see AZ citizens need to be armed to the teeth.

Yep, the poor kids...

My son is now in the habit of giving me a verbal checklist for my CCW and accessories - because he says he feels much safer knowing that his father is prepared to protect him, his sister and his mother.

I'm so proud! He is taking instruction from a local teacher and is turning into quite the pistol shot himself. He is focused on safe handling procedures and has told me that he will protect his family too in the future.

To Hawthorne2k and Yo Mama, You're way more optimistic than I am. Maryland is a democratic controlled state and they tend to feel like the more helpless you are, the safer you are. I don't expect much to change. Hoping to move to Pa in a few years.

There are people on both sides that are with us. Don't think just because they have a D or R next to their names that they are gun friendly.

There are people on both sides that are with us. Don't think just because they have a D or R next to their names that they are gun friendly.
Amen Yo!

The irony is that we fought a war with Mexico to gain the territories we won. Now they are taking them back and than some without firing a shot. Down here in FL when they enabled honest people to get ccw they did make all of those dire predictions but as it worked out things have only improved since the bad guys know that anyone might be armed and ready to defend themselves.

Flirting the edge of politics here, a couple of posts are missing. Please keep to the topic of how fearmongering over gun law changes is silly. That's plenty funny all by itself :)

Taking advantage of our new laws I strapped F.R.E.D. (Felon Repellent and Elimination Device) on and threw a t-shirt over him to take the kids fishing at a remote lake (it's AZ, every lake is a remote lake). When we got there, there were more kids fishing already. My kids and those kids had a grand time yelling across the lake about where the fish were.

Long story short, F.R.E.D. did not jump out of his holster. He did not take the initiative and drop anyone. Not one kid. Hell, not even one adult. Maybe I'm strong of will, but I never even felt a twinge of possession as F.R.E.D. tried to force his way into my hand and take over my mind. Amazing!

I was heartened to see a brother gunny OCing as his brood made their way past us.

Yo Mama!

Our politicians here are very disappointed with you people in AZ. They are desperately looking for empirical support to eliminate the remaining private ownership and carry privileges we do have, and you guys are just not helping one bit. Costa Rica always keys off the US, and so far its only places like Chicago supplying the mass shooting data.

The diputados at least expected some of your millions of gunmen to jump the tourist ropes and re-enact OK Corral wild west style in Tombstone with live ammo. Just because y'all are, you know, so unstable.

Louisiana's carjacking stats crashed almost immediately after they passed the "make my day" law.

I think this new law is just awful... ! :what:

I mean now that just about anybody can carry a concealed weapon (which most everybody was doing anyway), Those few that didn't have one are out buying them, and I can't steal... ah... I mean purchase, the older models that I like so well without having to pay a fair price. :uhoh:

I should move to Chicago, where I wouldn't have to worry about buying anything. :rolleyes:

Vermont has been this way for 235 years. We've only got 621,270 citizens left!!!

Oh, wait… that's 21,000 more than the last census.

Something's wrong here.:rolleyes:

Seems we hear very little from the news media about how states with CCW laws (Kentucky, Texas, Tenessee, Georgia) have lower violent crime rates than states with srtict gun control laws (California, New York, Illinois). I know there is not a liberal, left wing bias in the news media.:rolleyes:
Seriously, I'm glad my fellow Americans in the beautiful state of Arizona can now better defend themselves and their families.

Vermont has been this way for 235 years.
Too bad the winters are ten months long. ;)

There are people on both sides that are with us. Don't think just because they have a D or R next to their names that they are gun friendly.

I completely agree and that is the main issue for me in Ohio. Our current gov is a D, but has the NRA endorsement because he is a supporter of hunting/sporting issues. However, there are many more issues at hand than guns this November. I am having a hard time deciding if I could vote that way for just one (although important) issue.

I certainly can't vote for any politician who's in favor of gun control, regardless of his other views. Just ask yourself [or anyone who would criticize you as a single issue voter], "would you vote for a candidate who supported common sense restrictions on the 4th Amendment?".

Howdy from Virginia...we had the same whining from the Brady's and all the VT crowd and especially from my local state Senator, a Pubbie who was all concerned about violence in the restaurants running the tourists away from Williamsburg. Guess what, since 1 July restaurant repeal....snooze......all quiet....crickets chirping...

Here in Kentucky, just before the CCW and the "Castle Doctrine" laws were passed, the Herald Leader screamed that anarchy would swallow our state whole. Gunmen would swarm our state and plunge us into another dark age. Anyone who had an opinion on the matter (as long as the opinion was anti-gun) was interviewed by the paper and local TV stations. Quotes were made, soundbights were recorded!!
Hmmm, years later and no story on how the predictions never came to pass? I wonder why? And let's not forget the sunset of the "Assault Weapons" ban. The horror stories never came to pass in that situation either.
So now we face another tough situation...illegal immigration. and the Govt. says: "If we try to enforce the border..the economy will fail..farmers will lose their farms..floods...murders..anarchy...!!!

It's kinda funny how when mentioning the repeal of gun laws makes "people of certain political idealogies that hate guns" start panicking and thinking everything will go to hell and use terms like "the wild west". But in places which get their gun rights back, its as if everything becomes quieter like nothing happened.

I no longer live in CA anymore, thank the Lord. But I still have lots of friends and family there that need protection. I want to see what will happen when normal people are able to get CCW's and other bans are repealed. Maybe, there will be a lot less crime. I really just want to be there in Sacramento to see the politicians jaw's drop when statistics come back to see there are fewer victims.

But you also have to remember, there are a lot of variables in crime rates. Such as the types of people living in certain areas.

I certainly can't vote for any politician who's in favor of gun control, regardless of his other views. Just ask yourself [or anyone who would criticize you as a single issue voter], "would you vote for a candidate who supported common sense restrictions on the 4th Amendment?".

I think you've chosen a bad example here. The 4th Amendment essentially doesn't exist any more because of the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendment Act, which were easily passed with bipartisan support (including then Sen. Obama and Sens. McCain and Clinton) and signed into law by GW Bush.

Face it. The senate, in particular, has an extremely poor civil liberties track record, whether D or R. With few exceptions, people who are bad on 2a are willing to gamble away the other Amendments, as well, but there are plenty who support the 2a as a political calculation and will piss away the others as another political calculation. I can't think of an example of a sitting Senator who has a good track record on all civil liberties, except maybe Pat Leahy, who has an informal shooting range in his back yard.

This reminds me of a column written by Rochelle Riley in the Detroit Free Press. She was upset about the possibility that the city of Royal Oak might reverse their stand on open carry at a large festival. She invoked the Old West, fretted about drunks with guns (Michigan has a very strict law about guns and alcohol. The penalties are based on how far over .02 BAC - about one beer - you are). At the end of her column, she wrote, "I can make it easy for them where one participant and her family are concerned.

"Guns.

"Or us."

I am delighted to report the city commission voted 4-3 in favor of allowing open carry. I certainly hope Ms. Riley and her family have other plans for Labor Day weekend. :evil:


http://www.freep.com/article/20100815/COL10/8150491/1164/Col10/Royal-Oaks-choice-Guns-or-families-at-festival#ixzz0wx7rh4wQ

I'll tell ya. Since the new CCW law, bar/resteraunt bill, and in state ammo bill all passed AZ has gone to hell. Shootings everywhere, not safe anymore anywhere here. News story after news story of the horrors! So many I don't know how they fit the world news in at the end.

Goes to show you gun control works.....wait a minute. There hasn't been one incident yet. No shootings, no massive rioting, no problems at all. How can this be???? I guess we can start trusting our citizens now??? ...

<nodding> Just like when the AWB expired in 2004 ... from all of the Anti rhetoric one should have expected to have trouble just driving your car down the street because of all of the gunned-down bodies.

I think it would be nice if more states switched to constitutional carry like Vermont, Arizona and Alaska.

Although, I can't complain too much about the carry laws in Georgia.

I really enjoy the freedoms here in Alaska. The crime rate is low - and we don't have any leos in my town at all. We take care of ourselves and our neighbors. We have had two murders in the last 20 years

1. Drug dealer threatened to kill a bunch of people and he was found dead - 1 shot probably when trying to make good on his threat and his target was armed. That was 20 years ago

2. Drunken brawl over a stupid argument. It involved a knife and the killer was apprehended. He was later acquitted for lack of evidence. That was 4 years ago

I have more to worry about from the wildlife than the people. Moose can be rather dangerous - especially the mothers. Black bears and grizzlies are common too.

There are people on both sides that are with us. Don't think just because they have a D or R next to their names that they are gun friendly.
A point well taken.

I HATE Arizona, absolutely HATE that state (and Vermont & Alaska too). Of course, I live in ************ and its understandable that I would!

Buck, come over here and hate directly. :)
I keep looking outside for the flood of guns on the streets...I can always use another one or two...:D

Very scary.

Arizona might even get as dangerous as Switzerland, where most able-bodied men keep fully automatic rifles in their homes.

Of course, I live in ************ and its understandable that I would!

Nobody's sayin' you can't own a gun. Nobody's even sayin' you can't carry a gun.
All we're sayin' is you can't carry a gun in town. That's not so bad, is it? ...

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWSSwYKK9vvN6aWpEhAhX0LMtLYdkRr8Io7NoES6HuFmeRv0Q&t=1&usg=__z8PP7zMqMkzEshVhc5-YBB0BfvY=

Even Tombstone's grandfathered in ordinance was overturned in the late 80s, IIRC. :), Sorry, Marshall Earp. :D

The fears of the anti's have come to pass.
AZ relaxed its carry laws and gun violence as far away as here in NJ is way out of control.

Frankly, I detest the AZ constitutional carry law, for making me want to move again (depressing thought). It's even worse that they passed the firearm freedom act as well this year. What a bunch of freedom loving politicians you all have - those are the most dangerous type, so I've heard.

Yep. Lot's of murdering hordes running around up here in Vermont. You should see all those innocent deer hanging from the trees, and them damn rednecks shooting all those coyotes...OH THE HORROR.:eek:

This reminds me of a column written by Rochelle Riley in the Detroit Free Press. She was upset about the possibility that the city of Royal Oak might reverse their stand on open carry at a large festival. She invoked the Old West, fretted about drunks with guns (Michigan has a very strict law about guns and alcohol. The penalties are based on how far over .02 BAC - about one beer - you are). At the end of her column, she wrote, "I can make it easy for them where one participant and her family are concerned.

"Guns.

"Or us."

I am delighted to report the city commission voted 4-3 in favor of allowing open carry. I certainly hope Ms. Riley and her family have other plans for Labor Day weekend.


http://www.freep.com/article/2010081...#ixzz0wx7rh4wQ
I sent her an email.

Define owned:

"I can make it easy for them where one participant and her family are concerned.

"Guns.

"Or us."

---------

Imagine that, people selecting their constitutional rights over a loud mouthed leftist reporter.

"It's gonna turn cities back into the Old West!", eh?

Lemmesee here...


According to a lot of John Q. Publics, the Old West had a lot of people running around, shooting other folks over simple disagreements, using guns that were acquired without background checks, for example...

...hmmm...

In major cities across the U.S., people are getting shot over simple disagreements, using guns that were acquired without background checks, etc....

In the Old West, there were areas in the southwest that were so remote that there was little law enforcement present and as a result, a lot of people were getting shot to death with no way of the identity of the shooters being determined, much less apprehended...

...uhhh...

(Insert your own examples here. Plenty to choose from)

So, how is gun control s'posed to keep the U.S from TURNING BACK into the Old West, again?

Looks to me like the Old West is already back, ain't it?

One difference, I guess, is that according to popular belief: in the Old West, people were considered to be mostly responsible for their own safety and part of that was using their own common sense. That muscle appears to be atrophying in some of the arenas that are supposed to be making educated decisions regarding the good of the inhabitants.


...Just sayin'...

Well there is a problem. At night the insistent gunfire keeps me awake, and in the morning when I take out the trash I have to step around the bodies… :what:

But that’s in Chicago, Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, … not here in rural Arizona. :scrutiny: :D

I used to think that a National law would be better than individual state laws but the Anti's would only have an easier time getting one law changed rather than fighting their diry little fight in all 50 states.
It would be great if all 50 states would get together and agree on a basic set of conditions and rules so all would have reciprocity and we wouldn't have to carry a book with us to tell us what hoops we have to jump thru when crossing a state border.

Its too bad you don't see any news stories about decreasing crime rates following expansion of gun rights. Of course that wouldn't be news.

But that’s in Chicago, Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, … not here in rural Arizona

It's not the heat, it's the stupidity...

It would be great if all 50 states would get together and agree on a basic set of conditions and rules so all would have reciprocity and we wouldn't have to carry a book with us to tell us what hoops we have to jump thru when crossing a state border.

Let the feds control gun rights? Nah, let's not...

And all that violence from AZ is spilling across the NM border.

Damn you Arizona for having such weak gun laws! After all the violence in Vermont you'd think our country would have learned something!

It would be great if all 50 states would get together and agree on a basic set of conditions and rules so all would have reciprocity and we wouldn't have to carry a book with us to tell us what hoops we have to jump thru when crossing a state border.

It would be… only if it were calibrated to the currently least restrictive state (that being VT). I'm not going to give up my right to carry without a permit (like any adult should be able) so you can have reciprocity. Especially since adopting VT's standard would actually be constitutional. There's just not a lot of momentum for offering permits in VT, for reciprocity purposes or otherwise. We don't need your stinking permission slips.

And, likely, a national standard would be more akin to NY state's ideas than VT's. No thank you.

And, likely, a national standard would be more akin to NY state's ideas than VT's. No thank you.

Yeah. Keep in mind the population in NY and CA would drive a national law to follow their lead. I personally would rather not go there. For the most part, I like NC's (Shall Issue and OC) laws. The big ones that do bug me here are no carry in Bar/Grills and our retarded Castle Doctrine,

While I LOVE AZ's laws, I think NC's style would be the best to ease the minds of anti's. You have CCW being issued to those who are not violent offenders or guilty of alcohol based crimes (DWI, etc). Once you get your permit you can buy any gun shy of a FA without background check. It is not ideal for Pro-2A nor Anti's but is IMO, a good middle ground that gives us the ability to carry as we see fit and lets the Anti's FEEL as though the criminals are not getting them.

Gouranga - while I agree with your sentiment, I think that we now know how 'easing the mind of the antis' works for liberty. Every time we compromise, we lose. I'd rather that we just follow the constitution and respect people's rights. Certainly, people don't compromise on the 1st amendment as they do on the 2nd.

I've come to the conclusion that people who believe common citizens shouldn't have guns will never be comfortable until that happens, so I'd rather stick to my guns on this one (pun intended :-) ).

I definitely agree - no fed involvement necessary. The 2nd covers it plainly enough.

I had sent an email to Gov. Brewer and I tried to warn her that if they dropped the requirements for concealed carry the her state was going to be over run by LAWYERS just waiting to sue someone, anyone for a shooting incident. I think the ambulance chasers are worse than the Illegal Mexicans.

In all seriousness, glad to hear that it's working out well for you guys. I live in the People's Republic of Maryland where there is no chance of carrying. I love Arizona and wish that lived there. For now, I have to settle for visiting.


No chance of carrying? What about the bad guys? They still carry in Maryland don't they? :evil:

Just wait until the mexican president has his say. After all, all those guns in AZ are making it to Mexico!

If we would just build that fence, we could keep all those guns from migrating south... :rolleyes:

Yo Mama - for all its dust, heat, sand, and illegals, it isn't as bad as here in DaleyHell (Illinois).

Gouranga - while I agree with your sentiment, I think that we now know how 'easing the mind of the antis' works for liberty. Every time we compromise, we lose. I'd rather that we just follow the constitution and respect people's rights. Certainly, people don't compromise on the 1st amendment as they do on the 2nd.

I've come to the conclusion that people who believe common citizens shouldn't have guns will never be comfortable until that happens, so I'd rather stick to my guns on this one (pun intended :-) ).

I definitely agree - no fed involvement necessary. The 2nd covers it plainly enough.
I agree with esquare. I used to think that we should sort of fly under the radar on some issues and try to ease their (anti's) minds on other issues. The problem is that they have their heads buried so deep in a dark smelly place that they don't and won't ever see the world as it really is. They wouldn't know truth if it bit them. They really believe that if we leave that BG's along they won't bother us. They are not willing to admit (until someone has to come to their defense, and some not even then) that self defense is a necessary thing in this world.

And for the very small number of anti's that ARE aware of reality, it's not about "GUN" control, it's about CONTROL PERIOD. They want socialism or worse as our form of government and they will just keep taking and taking until we stop them.

As far as recreational shooting goes, they don't want us to have that either. They really believe that NOBODY is responsible enough to handle a firearm safely. So they have to protect themselves (and us) from ourselves (gun owners).

Bottom line...WE CAN'T GIVE THEM ANYTHING! Or they'll end up with everything and we'll end up with nothing.

Been in Phoenix 3 days, haven't seen anyone openly carrying yet.

I spend 6 months out of the year (the cooler months, of course :D) in Yuma. I cant recall more than twice seeing someone open carrying.

I suspect that now "no permit required" CCW is in place you won't see much open carry except in the very rural areas. In more populated places it isn't necessary to make a statement anymore, and storekeepers at least will welcome the change. Admitedly, guns sometimes scare some people away...

The media makes it seem like everyone is packing like it's doomsday. Fear sells copy, reality is too boring to report.

I'm keeping my eyes open.

Understand that in Arizona, even before the law was changed, it was hard to find someone that wasn't packing - concealed or otherwise. Given that the practice was so widespread, and apparently without serious problems. They finely made what was illegal, legal. ;)

Gun control is simply an attempt by liberal advocates of failed social policies to placate the work-a-day masses that are shocked by violent crime, so that they won't demand criminal justice reform.

Been in Phoenix 3 days, haven't seen anyone openly carrying yet.
Open carry has never been huge in Phx. But last I heard we have something like 78k registered CCWs in Maricopa county, which is pretty much all metro Phx area. That comes out to about 1 in every 50 or 60 people. Now without the need of a CCW I personally know at least 8 or 10 more people that carry.

Edit. Last census put 3.9 million in Maricopa county and 78k CCW. Thats 1 in 50.
Az population is around 6.3 million with 154k CCW. Thats 1 in 40.

I am working in Alaska. 13 wks in Kotzebue-I saw one person open carrying on the tundra. I've been in Anchorage for a month and I've seen no open carry. Not to say they aren't carrying concealed.
ll

Seen more feral chihuahuas than pistols.

Gouranga, I hate NCs open carry policy. Basicly if anyone gets scared they can call the cops and you are in deep crap. They can hit you with "carrying to terorize the public", or something of that nature. Plus it really changes by city and county.

Try going to Chapel Hill with a gun in your car that isn't empty, in a case, and locked in the trunk. If you don't have a CCL you will be facing serious issues. Of course, I have had one Chapel Hill cop say "you better keep it where it can be seen." A different cop gave me the advice about empty and in the trunk. So, in NC the law about how to carry any gun without a CCL is up for independent review by each cop. To me that spells trouble.

When my dad was moving from Chapel Hill to Durham he was pulled over for speeding. The cop asked to search the car and he consented. When the police officer found six rifles, and two black powder pistols, in the trunk he cuffed my dad and called for back up. By the time it was all said and done the cops had confiscated his guns and took him to jail.

No official charges were pressed but he had to prove ownership of every gun. The two rifles he no longer had reciepts for were ordered to be destroyed by an Orange County judge.

NC is far from the worst state when it comes to gun laws. However, I believe there needs to be some clarification on certain issues. There are also a lot of laws that even CCL owners have to follow that seem idiotic when considering the purpose of CC.

Mike, that's why you never consent to a warrantless search of your vehicle, ever. Just because you have nothing to hide doesn't give them the right to look.
I lived here in AZ all my life, used to open carry, and it was amazing how many people couldn't see the lawfully carried sidearm! Now the law used to read "Wholly or partially visible, weapon or holster", so an IWB rig where just the grip was showing, or the bottom of a holster under a very short jacket/vest, was legal. I also tended to dress somewhat decent when carrying, which draws far less comment. Some poeple assume when you carry a good looking sidearm in professional leather, dressed well, you're a cop. It worked well for years, before we got CCW.
STILL no river of guns running down the street, lying liberals.