[Charleo0192]

So im sure you've seen this question before, would a .22 LR pistol be good for HD. I realize its not a first choice, but in my mind, a well placed shot will do the same as a .45.

[oasis618]

<retrieves popcorn from the microwave> here we go...

[303Jeff]

And you're absolutely right... The only problem is that under duress even the most highly trained shooter isn't necessarily going to be able to make a perfect shot, especially if they're being charged with a knife or shot at with a gun. So, either you make the perfect shot or you hit them a few times in the general center-of-mass area with a .45, .40, 9mm or .357 and put them down for the count. Hopefully.

[Charleo0192]

so if i was to hit the guy in the chest a few times with a .22 it wouldnt put him down?

[303Jeff]

You tell me. If you are in a life or death situation what would you rather have? Something that will do the job or something that might do the job? I won't say the .22 can't kill, because we see stories of it fairly frequently. What I'm saying is that for my personal use I'm going to have the biggest gun in the house next to my bed.

Different strokes for different folks.

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

There have been a number of news stories lately about the 22 LR for self defense, one onvolved an elderly lady in Iowa (?), stopped a home invader with one shot.
Jeff Cooper: "First Rule of Gunfighting-Have a Gun."
Elmer Keith-responding to a reader asking about what Elmer considred a "Mouse Gun", he replied that it wasn't what he would choose but "it sure beats yours fists."

[redbullitt]

We all know its not the best, im sure he knows that. I would sure take it over my fists and harsh language. Seriously consider something heavier for a HD weapon (9mm, 38, 20 gauge etc.) , but since I don't know your situation, that may not be an option.

I like my ruger pistol very well. It is accurate and pretty reliable (as reliable as rimfire can be). I have run a couple 22 revolvers that held 9 or so shots that would be good as well. If you go wheel gun, then reliability of ammo is less of a concern.

[Rail Driver]

I don't know about others, but my opinion is that a .22LR is good for a very up close and personal situation... When the BG has you down on the ground you stick it under his ribs and let er rip. It's not an across the room round, that's what your sidearm or long gun is for.

[wow6599]

I'll play

If I had to use a .22 pistol for SD/HD it would be my Ruger MK I with Federal Auto Match. I wouldn't trust any HP .22 rds, just me though.

[Charleo0192]

I probably should look into getting a HD gun, but a .22 for now will do. Hopefully it will deter and/or do the job. I wont worry too much about something bad happening even though thats not the best mindset.

[303Jeff]

Obviously the point's been made that it's better than harsh language. If you don't really have any choice then yeah it's the best option, that's a no-brainer. Not ideal though. But if you DO have a better option then there's no question, go heavy.

I use a 5.56 rifle with a red dot sight. Not as ideal as a handgun in terms of handling in a home in the middle of the night with adrenaline pounding through your veins, but it's currently my only option. Do your best, keep your wits about you, and shoot straight. And may God have mercy on whatever idiot broke into your home in the first place.

[Leanwolf]

I know of two women who saved their lives using .22 revolvers. Both assailants DOA.

One woman's handgun (belonged to her dead husband) was an almost never fired S&W 18, and the other woman's was literally a cheapo "Saturday Night Special" that hadn't been fired in many years.

Afterall, five or six or ten rounds of .22 LR in a bad guy's neck and face might not kill him... but they'll sure as the world make him think very seriously about taking up a different profession! ;)

My preference is a .45 ACP: my wife's is a revolver with .38 +P H.Ps. But if a .22 LR is all one has, used well with determination, it'll do.

L.W.

[RDCL]

By choice no, but if it was all you had......it'd be better than a ball bat......just keep that ball bat handy though!

Russ

[svaz]

.22LR ammo is cheap and hours of practice is easy on the hands, ears, and gun. Being proficient w/ a .22 beats the hell out of a .45 you can't operate in the dead of night because you've forgotten how to since the last time you picked it up was a couple of years ago.

Use the hottest ammo your .22 will reliably fire. I have CCI Minimags in my Bersa and the fireball in a darkened room is impressive. If the lead doesn't hit them (and it's unlikely that it won't), the thought of Zeus pitching lightning bolts at them just might.

[DoubleTapDrew]

A .22lr will kill someone with well placed shots. They may well kill you and/or your family in the meantime before they die though. It's still better than a golf club.

If I had to use a .22 for HD this would probably be my top choice

http://www.fotydostrony.yoyo.pl/American%20180.jpg

[ms6852]

The problem that most readers have with using a 22 long rifle bullet is not so much as the stopping power of this caliber against the perp but more of a reliability factor. Most every one knows that the rimfire is a very deadly round for its size, but there are to many failure to fire with rimfire bullets. If you are already under extreme duress because someone has broken into your house and you are awaken suddenly, or someone has attacked you without provocation, do YOU want your first chance that you get to shoot your weapon in self defense to have a failure to fire because the rimfire casing did not discharge? Now you have to clear your weapon and fire again while someone is slicing and dicing you best case scenario, or someone is shooting at you. You now shoot this individual with a caliber that is a deadly caliber but in the meantime it could take several minutes for the person to bleed out if your shot happens to hit an artery. A cns shot is the only shot that may stop him on his tracks. I'm retired military and have seen in Africa, and the middle east that some of the guys that are high on drugs you can empty a magazine whether it's 5.56, 7.62, or 45 cal, or 9mm into them and they still keep coming. You must decide what is best for you and how capable you are in defending your self. Your better off shooting a 22lr if you are accurate with that pistol and hitting the perp with the 22 than using a 454 casull and missing the perp because of recoil. The pucker factor is something most people never experience or expect and it is not easy to control you can actually miss from two feet away. Unless your are cool under this conditions regardless of the training you will never be as prepared as you think you might be.

[Rail Driver]

I'd like one of those in .45 while you're at it ;)

Really, is that a thompson .22? I bet on full auto loaded with minimags or stingers it'd be a beast.

[doc2rn]

Gotta love the American 180

[Deltaboy]

Well if it is all you got then lock the doors and keep it Clean.

[deputy tom]

Think about it.If you were shot in the eyes/face with a .22 would you continue to do wrong deeds? I'd think not.YMMV.tom.:confused:

[Robert Wilson]

It seems to me that one of the statistics is that "the presence of a gun is usually enough to end the fight" or something like that. So of course a .22 would be as good for that as anything else.

If I actually had to shoot someone to stop a fight, I'd much prefer something besides the .22 -- and like everyone else, would prefer the .22 over my fists.

Oh, and member "ms6852" needs to buy some .22 not made by Remington. :evil:

[GLOOB]

One other problem with .22 pistols:

Most of them are not designed to be carried with a round chambered. Many have only a simple trigger/sear-block manual safety.

[303Jeff]

Just remember that SD situations aren't necessarily "shoot him and he's down," no matter what the situation. People on drugs, psychotics, and people in a panic (including victims) sometimes don't even realize they're shot. With these people, their body basically needs to stop functioning in order for them to stop moving/attacking/whatever. Something bigger with more energy is going to stop them quicker. Not necessarily instantly, but quicker.

[Hanzo581]

I'm imagining if I am shooting to defend my life shot placement will be supremely tough, so I'll stick with my .45, "misses" will hurt a helluva lot more.

[The Lone Haranguer]

.22 is better than nothing at all, or for a person who cannot handle anything more powerful due to physical limitations. I would not want to stand in front of someone with a fast-firing pistol or especially a carbine. :uhoh: It will kill, of course, but our objective is to stop the attacker. And while shot placement is paramount, of course, you can place your shot perfectly but have the bullet fail to penetrate deeply enough, slowed down by heavy clothing, or deflected off course. Unless the .22 is all you have or can handle, I urge a larger caliber, minimum 9mm Luger or .38 Special. A shotgun of at least 20 gauge, even more.

[dashootist]

I think a 10-shot S&W 22LR revolver would be an effective weapon. But I rather have my 38spl wad cutter--cut big hole and less chance of overpenetration and has no recoil.

[CHEVELLE427]

again

it will be better then a sharp rock tied to the end of a stick

not my choice but if it is all you have , BETTER THEN NOTHING.

out of state off duty cop killed a bad guy last year here with a NAA 22lr 1 shot, took the guy 7 days to die but he did die

[mustang_steve]

If you're going to use a .22lr for home defense, get a bullpup rifle, like a Walther G22 or a Ruger 10/22 with bullpup kit...the Ruger would be the better option as a high-capacity magazine can be used.

This (the bullpup Ruger) gives you a compact, fast handling firearm with plenty of rounds in case you need it. Downside is it may overpenetrate...brightside is velocity is high enough for added benefits such as cavitation, as minor as it may be, every ounce of additional punch matters when using rounds of this power level.

[303Jeff]

Although if you were going to get a g22 you could just go ahead and get something more powerful.

[Manco]

So im sure you've seen this question before, would a .22 LR pistol be good for HD. I realize its not a first choice, but in my mind, a well placed shot will do the same as a .45.

It can be effective against human targets, in my opinion, but because of its relatively small size, low power, and other issues that have already been brought up in this thread, it would be of great benefit to very carefully select the right combination of quality ammunition and firearm (mostly with regard to barrel length) that will likely achieve effective terminal ballistics.

First let me address the issue of stopping power--except perhaps for the most powerful centerfire rifles, there is no such thing unless you hit the right spots, namely the CNS or major cardiovascular structures. So it's really all about shot placement, just like most everybody says these days.

Now let me address how people view shot placement. Some people at least seem to think or imply that in a real shooting you can so precisely place shots that a slightly larger bullet (even a .45 ACP bullet is only slightly larger than a .22 LR bullet--it may be about twice as wide, but twice of tiny is still tiny in comparison to the body) will give you some margin, but in my opinion that doesn't have much validity. Unless the bad guy is just standing still begging to be shot, you may need luck to hit him at all, and luck is exactly what will determine exactly where you hit him and whether that shot will be effective. In fact, luck ultimately determines the outcome of everything in life, and all we can do is affect the probability. Larger bullets will improve your chances in this game of luck, but only by a little bit, not the huge difference that many wish to believe (as I once did).

However, one thing that you do need in order to have any chance in the first place is sufficient penetration, which is often iffy with .22 LR. This is what depends the most heavily on the combination of ammunition load and firearm. Sometimes more powerful/faster loads will penetrate more, but sometimes the opposite is true. What I want to stress, though, is that .22 LR can indeed achieve sufficient penetration to be effective--just as much penetration as a typical defensive JHP load in a larger handgun caliber, or even more if you like.

Let's look at some examples before continuing. The CCI Stinger, a favorite among many because of its extremely high velocity and energy for .22 LR, is actually not that useful against humans. The hollow-point bullet is light and weakly constructed, and when shot out of a rifle will literally explode into fragments at a shallow depth, which while spectacularly devastating against squirrels and such, is not very effective against larger creatures. Shot out of a handgun with a medium-length barrel, the bullet may actually expand as designed, which limits penetration severely in this caliber, thereby limiting its overall effectiveness. Only in snub-nosed revolvers (and various derringers) does this load shine against human targets, penetrating enough to be effective by most standards (because it does not expand in this case). The CCI Velocitor, on the other hand, works well out of both medium-length handguns and rifles, achieving sufficient penetration in both and expanding in the latter to improve your odds a little bit; out of snub-nosed revolvers, I imagine that penetration would be somewhat lacking, however. There are many other examples to consider, and a few lab tests to verify some of them, but the point is that there are ammo/firearm combinations in .22 LR that are effective for defensive purposes, as long as you're careful in choosing.

Another issue to address is reliability. Frankly, I wouldn't trust semiautomatic handguns in .22 LR, but revolvers and many rifles are fine. One issue with rimfire ammunition in general is its well known lack of reliability in ignition, but that's only true for cheap bulk ammunition. Quality rimfire ammunition from CCI, Aguila's specialty loads, and Eley match loads, for example, have been about as reliable as centerfire ammunition, in my experience.

And finally (as if! ;)), I'd like to stress the importance of how well one can shoot a certain caliber over its physical attributes. Although some calibers are certainly more effective than others, even .22 LR can be nearly as effective as any, so this is nowhere near as important as being able to accurately place a quick succession of shots into a target. There is simply no better way of maximizing your chances of a successful stop through shot placement than placing lots of shots! :D Regarding handguns, some people can shoot .45 ACP or .40 S&W both quickly and accurately, so I wouldn't blame them for using those calibers at all, but some people (especially beginners) can shoot .22 LR a whole lot better than they could larger calibers, so it may well be advantageous overall for them to shoot .22 LR (as hard as that might be for them to admit).

[hso]

would a .22 LR pistol be good for HD. I realize its not a first choice, but in my mind, a well placed shot will do the same as a .45.

A .22lr used by assassins is as effective as a .45 in an assassination because the environment and situation are very controlled. Putting a .22 round through an eye/ear/septum into the brain is only probable because of the planning/preparation/control of the environment and situation. That said any deviation from perfect placement means that you have a far greater likelihood of failure with the lower energy .22lr.

A home defense situation is entirely different and you're potential for fight stopping placement of the .22 is very low since you know a fight stopper is going to be one of a very few options with the smaller caliber. Since you don't have the advantage of high probability of very particular shot placement you need to make up for that with bullet momentum and energy so you can stretch and tear a larger wound channel, something the .22lr lacks by comparison. The fact that the BG might eventually die due to being shot by a .22lr is far from the desired effect of stopping a fight with much greater momentum and energy from the .45.

So, the fact that you can kill with a .22lr isn't relevant for HD since your goal is to stop the fight right away. Stopping fights is about delivering more energy to the BG.

[orionengnr]

1. Do a SEARCH.
2. :rolleyes:
3. Yes, a .22LR is better than nothing.
4. By extension, almost anything else is better than a .22LR.

Conclusion: This is not a ringing endorsement of the .22LR.

[Hatterasguy]

Well why are you depending on a .22? If money is tight buy a high point in a proper caliber. They are ugly as sin, but they are reliable enough and last I saw you can get them for about $100.

.22 is a good training round, in a pinch its better than harsh words but thats about it.

[DasFriek]

This is me and you can disagree.
Let me turn the tables a moment.
Imagine someone breaks into my house, Not 1 guy but 2.
One has a small .22/.25 which is rather easy to know what caliber it is by looking at it.
The other guy has a 12" survival knife.
And you have to get past one of them to reach your firearm, Which will you attack?

Me im going threw the guy with the small caliber gun.
Most likely he will miss me as long as we are engaged, If he does hit me adrenalin will pump so hard ill never feel it and he only has maybe 6 shots. A good chance also is his gun will jam while we are wrestling as im getting my hand on that slide. I may be fatally wounded and later die, But most likley will be 90% functioning for quite a while.

Now if i went against the 12" knife guy id say 1 good COM stab and i very well may be done for as i stand there, Bleeding out will happen very quickly.
Self defense moves of grabbing the knife is worse than not grabbing for it.
Im not trained in hand to hand combat so id be at a real disadvantage.

Of course many things can happen differently.
Had the first guy had a 9mm there isnt no way im gonna attack him, Or the second guy for that matter. I guess id just wet myself and pray at that point.

No ive never been shot before, Nor have i been cut more than a couple stitches couldn't fix.
But psychologically in a life and death situation im more than prepared to be shot with a small caliber IF the other consequences are worse.

But id bet id have a 90% chance of reaching my weapon and hopefully filling them full of .45acp

Now your question, Would a .22lr be good for HD?
Its better than nothing, But usually many other things are better.

[03Shadowbob]

Would I trust my life to a 22? Yeah. I am pretty sure I could get the majority of my shots to land around the cranial cavity if needed however would those 22 rounds have enough mass and energy to break through tough bone whether a rib, femur, a skull, a pelvis, etc.. Why take the chance? I know my life is worth more than a 22lr. Yours? Maybe not. That is for you to decide.

[Tim the student]

I can only think of shorts and CBs as being worse for SD than .22lr.

I'd be saving, scrimping, eating a lot of ramen, and selling plasma until I could get something better.

[DasFriek]

I can only think of shorts and CBs as being worse for SD than .22lr.

I'd be saving, scrimping, eating a lot of ramen, and selling plasma until I could get something better.
Id bet if its a money issue the OP may have someone in his life who would loan/give/buy him a gun for HD if he asked the right person.

I know most people on this board would do it if someone in their family or close friend asked for that.

[Tim the student]

^^ DasFriek, I bet you're right, but it may not be a money issue at all.

Just saying that if it was, I'd find a way to get around it.

[bigalexe]

If the choice is a .22lr single-shot break-action rifle or a sling-shot I am taking the .22lr

If the choice is a .22lr or a (insert anything but .17hmr here), I am taking the (not .22).

[oasis618]

If the choice is a .22lr single-shot break-action rifle or a sling-shot I am taking the .22lr

If the choice is a .22lr or a (insert anything but .17hmr here), I am taking the (not .22).

I'd take the .17HMR. At least the BG would bleed on both sides.

[9mmepiphany]

Originally Posted by bigalexe
If the choice is a .22lr single-shot break-action rifle or a sling-shot I am taking the .22lr

If the choice is a .22lr or a (insert anything but .17hmr here), I am taking the (not .22).

I think i'd take the sling shot or the .17 hmr too

As said already, a .22lr can be deadly, I've seen it kill, but the point of defense isn't to kill, but to stop...very different things. I've also arrested folks who had been shot with a .22lr and went on to beat their shooter...when we got them to the hospital, we found that they had been shot before and the bullets were still there

[jeffmack]

I got a bad shot in on a squirrel one time. It was crawling around on the ground trying to escape after I had shot it in the back with a 22lr. It probably would still be alive if I hadn't put it out of it's misery.

A squirrel.

I don't hardly use a 22 for much of anything now.

[duns]

The OP asked specifically about home defense. I don't see the attraction of .22 for HD unless it is the very cheap ammo to enable him to practice a lot. If finances allow, a full size 9mm pistol would be a better choice -- cheapest ammo of the "serious" calibers and very easy to shoot well in a full size pistol.

[ms6852]

The 22 is better than nothing. The most important thing to remember is how confident you are in shooting this particular caliber. If you are very confident than you are already better off than no weapon at all. I personally would feel better with a rifle like the ruger 10/22 in which you can attach a 25 round magazine, now you really have a very deadly weapon with regular practice.

[GLOOB]

No ive never been shot before, Nor have i been cut more than a couple stitches couldn't fix.
But psychologically in a life and death situation im more than prepared to be shot with a small caliber IF the other consequences are worse.


Ok, but for the average home invader the other consequences are usually BETTER. Running away to rob/murder/rape another day is a lot better than getting shot repeatedly with a .22LR and possibly dying.

[DasFriek]

Ok, but for the average home invader the other consequences are usually BETTER. Running away to rob/murder/rape another day is a lot better than getting shot repeatedly with a .22LR and possibly dying.

Not all home invaders are scared away so easily. Some are bent on murder and on enough drugs they aren't thinking and don't care about getting shot.

Put a few .22 rounds in someone who is mentally disturbed and on drugs and all you did was make them madder.

They see no consequences at all.
In my post all i was trying to show was how un-effective a .22 can be by reversing the roles. And even in that scenario i wouldn't be disturbed or strung out on drugs and the .22 still remained a better option to go up against instead of a 12" fighting knife.

I will say 25 rounds of .22 may stop someone or at least make them get the picture. But thats still a risky chance imo.

[gun guy]

The main problem when asking if a 22lr, will work in a HD situtation, is that 99.3% of those responding with an opinion have never been closer to a gunfight than their xbox. and about 85% of those that have the custom tuned 45 megagunfighter magnum special and swear by its stopping power, would leave a little yellow trail on their way to the farthest place they could run to the fastest. That leaves .7 percent of that catagory .5 percent are at least hunters that have probably seen failure to stop from a rifle yet realize a hit from any weapon can be fatal and respond with decent advice. First, the mere presence of a firearm is often enough to stop an assault, thats right from the NRA. The zodiac killer was thwarted by a father who had been teaching his son to shoot a 22 rifle. He was about as dedicated and dangerous a killer you need. (the lake beryessa shooting). 2nd SVAZ is 100% correct about the muzzle flash scaring off the intruder. Often, even trained soliders lose their nerve once the incoming starts, let alone some punk. Keep in mind, criminals are cowards, and not very bright ones at that. 3rd. ANY decent hit will require an intruder to seek medical help and that generates a call to the police. Even a dimwitted punk knows this, and can't afford to stay and trade shots. 4th in most neighborhoods, more than a few shots draws police, once the first round goes off, the concious of guilt is working against him. you can see, before we even get to the blood n guts stuff. The odds of driving off an intruder with a 22lr is very good already. Add to those above facts, the 22lr has probably killed more creatures than the 30 06 which is a hunting round, as well as going to war many times. The round is PROVEN deadly. Most people would agree you tend to practice more with a 22 and your hit probability with it is good. So, given all the above data, when some young gun, starts showing you his chrome plated hand cannon, and extoling its virtues over your little 22, smile kindly and walk away.

[BlacklabelOP]

Ruger 22/45 or Walther p22... both would work fine for your needs.. If you don't want to worry so much about jams get yourself a 10rnd revolver.
I have a safe full of guns pistols and shotguns ect and when I am not around my g/f sleeps with a crowbar instead of pulling something out of the safe.. so use what u want...

shoot you can even add alittle dookicky like I did to my ruger to prevent night blindness incase you are shooting it indoors at night, im not sure but I also think it might make it quiter..

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr165/sweetbeard/DSC01775.jpg

[kludge]

Well placed shot from a .22 is not the same as a .45.

But at any rate...

Revolver. 40gr solids. And make mine a Magnum.

[Carl Levitian]

"The main problem when asking if a 22lr, will work in a HD situtation, is that 99.3% of those responding with an opinion have never been closer to a gunfight than their xbox. and about 85% of those that have the custom tuned 45 megagunfighter magnum special and swear by its stopping power, would leave a little yellow trail on their way to the farthest place they could run to the fastest. That leaves .7 percent of that catagory .5 percent are at least hunters that have probably seen failure to stop from a rifle yet realize a hit from any weapon can be fatal and respond with decent advice. First, the mere presence of a firearm is often enough to stop an assault, thats right from the NRA. The zodiac killer was thwarted by a father who had been teaching his son to shoot a 22 rifle. He was about as dedicated and dangerous a killer you need. (the lake beryessa shooting). 2nd SVAZ is 100% correct about the muzzle flash scaring off the intruder. Often, even trained soliders lose their nerve once the incoming starts, let alone some punk. Keep in mind, criminals are cowards, and not very bright ones at that. 3rd. ANY decent hit will require an intruder to seek medical help and that generates a call to the police. Even a dimwitted punk knows this, and can't afford to stay and trade shots. 4th in most neighborhoods, more than a few shots draws police, once the first round goes off, the concious of guilt is working against him. you can see, before we even get to the blood n guts stuff. The odds of driving off an intruder with a 22lr is very good already. Add to those above facts, the 22lr has probably killed more creatures than the 30 06 which is a hunting round, as well as going to war many times. The round is PROVEN deadly. Most people would agree you tend to practice more with a 22 and your hit probability with it is good. So, given all the above data, when some young gun, starts showing you his chrome plated hand cannon, and extoling its virtues over your little 22, smile kindly and walk away. " Quoted from gun guy.


I was going to chip in, but this guy said it so well, I'll just give a thumbs up to his post. As a former police officer, his judgement of criminals is the truest so far.

[CHEVELLE427]

you can play all types of what ifs .

but when you have someone grab your door knob at 10pm (I HAVE had it happen) and it was in such away that if it was unlocked WERE GOING IN,

you will re group a little before you go check it out.

when you go outside you in the disadvantage then, if there still laying and wait.

now bust into my house i have a gun within reach at all times, most of the time it is a
45acp, but i do have a 22 on top of the fridge right beside the coach 12GA sxs.

was up at 1:30am and saw 5 people coming up my drive in the cameras i have up and recording, i did confront them (after thinking about it THAT WAS DUMB OF ME) THIS TIME IT TURNED OUT TO BE KIDS FROM 9-13 YEARS OLD i guess i yelled loud enough some of the neighbors also came out and the kids ran off down a dead end street , the cops came took names and let them go. WTH lesson did they just learn______________


STILL A 22 IS BETTER THEN NOTHING AT ALL

[DoubleTapDrew]

I'd like one of those in .45 while you're at it

Really, is that a thompson .22? I bet on full auto loaded with minimags or stingers it'd be a beast.
Rail Driver, it's an American 180 American 180 (http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg62-e.htm), a .22lr submachine gun that holds 165-275rds (depending on magazine) and shoots 1200-1500rpm (depending on ammo). It was built on the quantity over quality principle, to deliver many many projos to the threat quickly and minimize overpenetration concerns.

Here's a vid of one doing 275rd bursts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKUZUXWRcns

[mboylan]

Get a cheap 12 GA pump. Forget about the .22.

[mustang_steve]

Das, if one is stabbing with a 12"knife, they're doing it wrong....a knife that big, if used as a chopping weapon could cut through bone. a good solid swing could go through a hand.

Seriously, if I saw anyone enter my home illegally with a knife that big, they're not even getting a warning, I'm going to dump all my ammo into that target, and if they still have a hold of that knife, I'm going to use the nearest object to bludgeon them until I am either dead, or they've dropped the weapon. I woudl ignore the .22 entirely and stop the threat. A .22 can kill, but more than likely I'd just get shot up a few times and if lucky make it out of the ER.

With the knife, I'd never make it to the ER in the first place. Keep in mind a Bowie does in fact make a somewhat decent hatchet if needed to be one. Some food for thought.