Alabama Carry Laws Question -- Update


PDA






SammyLBusby
August 17, 2010, 07:37 PM
I live in Nauvoo, Alabama in Walker County. Recently theft of property has started up in my neighborhood. 30 years and nothing like this has happened until a couple moved in behind me and now SHTF. While driving to Jasper, the ENTIRE wheel and tire came off my truck and I almost slid into the Lunch Time Traffic. Upon inspection of my lugs, I found that there was NO DAMAGE at all to them. Someone had been trying to steal my wheels. And only two nights before that, someone stole 4 2 gallon gas jugs from my grandmothers house across the road from me. I had had enough. I went and bought a 9mm pistol to keep it from happening anymore. I just applied for my CCW today and was told to check back on Thursday. Can someone help me out with someting. Im trying to find out my rights to carry this weapon. I know I can have it in the vehicle with me but what about carrying the weapon other places?? Thanks

Sam

If you enjoyed reading about "Alabama Carry Laws Question -- Update" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
WALKERs210
August 17, 2010, 08:05 PM
Your lucky here in Walker County we have John Mark Trye as sheriff. You can carry anyplace you go, especially the Wally World in Jasper, except for federal buildings.

Gary Slider
August 17, 2010, 08:10 PM
Alabama State Parks
http://www.alapark.com/parks/pdfs/RulesAndRegulations.pdf

8. Prohibited Devices (220-5-.08)
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement
officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written
permission of the manager or custodian in charge of the State Park visited;
provided, however, nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of
handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the
handguns are not used for any unlawful purpose. No person shall possess,
discharge or set off on or within a State park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets,
cap pistols, or other fireworks.


Alabama State and National Forests
http://www.alabamaadministrativecode.state.al.us/docs/ftry/McWord390-X-7.pdf

390X7.
08 Prohibited Devices.
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a
duly authorized law enforcement officer to possess or carry into
any State Forest or any property owned by the Forestry Commission
any form of firearm without written permission of the manager in
charge of the State Forest visited, except those areas designated
as a Wildlife Management Area or Handicapped Hunting Area in
conjunction with the Alabama Department of Conservation and
Natural Resources and then only firearms for the appropriate
hunting season. No person shall possess, discharge or set off on
or within a State Forest any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets,
cap pistols, or other fireworks.

SammyLBusby
August 17, 2010, 08:11 PM
Really? Or are you being sarcastic? ;) I know a little about the laws but not enough to push them. LOL.

Sam1911
August 17, 2010, 08:25 PM
For the lists of places you can't carry concealed (and other pertinent info) go here:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/alabama.pdf

Section 13A-11-72
Premises of a public school. The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a school composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12
(c) Subject to the exceptions provided by Section 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.
(d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.
(e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

Section 13A-11-59
Possession of firearms by persons participating in, attending, etc., demonstrations at public places.
(a) For the purposes of this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them in this subsection, except in those instances where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:
(1) DEMONSTRATION. Demonstrating, picketing, speechmaking or marching, holding of vigils and all other like forms of conduct which involve the communication or expression of views or grievances engaged in by one or more persons, the conduct of which has the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers. Such term shall not include casual use of property by visitors or tourists which does not have an intent or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.
(2) FIREARM. Any pistol, rifle, shotgun or firearm of any kind, whether loaded or not.
(3) LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. Any duly appointed and acting federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement officer, peace officer or investigating officer, or any military or militia personnel called out or directed by constituted authority to keep the law and order, and any park ranger while acting as such on the grounds of a public park and who is on regular duty and present to actively police and control the demonstration, and who is assigned this duty by his department or agency. Such term does not include a peace officer on strike or a peace officer not on duty.
(4) PUBLIC PLACE. Any place to which the general public has access and a right to resort for business, entertainment or other lawful purpose, but does not necessarily mean a place devoted solely to the uses of the public. Such term shall include the front or immediate area or parking lot of any store, shop, restaurant, tavern, shopping center or other place of business. Such term shall also include any public building, the grounds of any public building, or within the curtilage of any public building, or in any public parking lot,
public street, right-of-way, sidewalk right-of-way, or within any public park or other public grounds.
(b) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to have in his or her possession or on his or her person or in any vehicle any firearm while participating in or attending any demonstration being held at a public place.
(c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was
in possession of any firearm. This subsection shall not apply to any person in possession of or having on his or her person any firearm within a private dwelling or other private building or structure.

Section 13A-11-59
(c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was
in possession of any firearm.

Note: Sheriffs in Alabama can and do put other restrictions on the permit holders they issue to. Do be aware of any of those restrictions that may be on your permit/license to carry. Carrying where alcohol is served or consuming alcohol while carrying is one I have seen on more than one Alabama Sheriffs web site that adds these restrictions. Government buildings are another restricted item they add. Most state City, County and State Government Buildings are off limits. Again do be aware of any restriction on your permit/license. These restrictions if noted on the permit/license would be in effect in any other county in Alabama you would visit.

When going out of state and carrying on an Alabama permit/license that Alabama honors you must go by the laws of the state you are in. Do be careful.

Carry In State Parks/State & National Forests/WMA/Road Side Rest Areas
Carry Allowed in these Areas:
State Parks: YES Admin Code 220-5-.08
State/National Forests: NO Admin Code 390-X-7
WMAs: YES Admin Code 220-2
Road Side Rest Areas: YES


For information on open carrying in AL, go here:
http://www.opencarry.org/al.html

Do be careful as you do need a permit to carry the gun in a vehicle, even openly.

smince
August 17, 2010, 10:24 PM
This has the code that Sam1911 printed excerpts from:

http://www.ago.alabama.gov/issue/Alabama_Weapon_Law.pdf

docnyt
August 17, 2010, 10:34 PM
In the clause relating to public school, what if you have no intent to do bodily harm but just carrying concealed?

smince
August 18, 2010, 05:49 AM
In the clause relating to public school, what if you have no intent to do bodily harm but just carrying concealed? That's the million-dollar question. It does seem to say that it is OK to CCW at school if you have a permit issued by the standards in Section 13A-11-75.

To complicate matters even more, our local school has "No Weapons" signs up, but the handbook and the Board of Education rules merely repeat Section 13A-11-72 (a)-(e) (I don't know if this is state-wide or just my county).

A few lawyers I've asked said "that's what it looks like it says" but won't go out on a limb and actually commit.

It's also been stated that it's ok to ccw while dropping off or picking up, but not for any long-term visits, but I haven't found that written down anywhere.

JellyJar
August 18, 2010, 12:58 PM
I follow the rule that since most school departments don't like it I won't CCW on school grounds or buildings even if it is legal.

That includes the local university. Not illegal but they don't like it.

Bhamrichard
August 18, 2010, 01:25 PM
Under Alabama Statues, you can carry pretty much anywhere except for Federal buildings, most court houses, airport terminals, etc. Carrying Concealed on school property is not specifically disallowed if you have a pistol permit, and have no intent to "do harm".

Overall Alabama's laws are very liberal on where you can carry, check the permit itself for any additional restrictions the sheriff for your county may impose.

jonboynumba1
August 18, 2010, 01:27 PM
Yeah in AL. it's basically schools (remember the gun free school zone federal push from the 90's?) state and federal buildings (courthouse, post office ect) state forrests ect are a bit of a grey area...in that there are open hunting seasons...in all likelyhood you "can" have a problem but driving through one likely will not have one...however get caught walking the woods off season with a .44 under your shirt...officiers and game management have some discretion in how they proceed...and USUALLY in AL. they show good common sense unless you get the proverbial "new guy" No sports events (especially at schools) gatherings over certain number of people (it's listed in state code...basically a sporting event type senario) anything political related...voting or rally wise. Anywhere that serves alcohol (they may have just amended that part...I seem to remember hearing that but am not sure...I know at the very least YOU can not be drinking...good rule of thumb anyway) Don't forget the "gun free school zone" I have a bud that lives "in" one...that's right...on his private property he can be strapped but when he pulls oput of the driveway it technically should be unloaded and ammo separated from gun until out of the school zone...where his permit allows him to carry on his person and in his vehicle...but technically he's in violation of state law every time he leave his house for about 1000 yards...again dumb arse law...and an officer would likely overlook it given his address. Don't forget all that Federal/TVA land we get to drive through here in AL. most of it is technically not Kosher for CCW. But again...how many thousands of people drive through it every day without thinking about it...and would it really be an issue for a regular/minor traffic stop/citation....probably not....but still...it pays to know the law...


atf publishes 5300.5 ATF state laws and published ordnances" 2008 29th edition you can likely get a copy from them and have state laws and ordnances for all states that you may travel through as well...I have one because we are an FFL dealer but I bet it's online somewhere...if not it shoud be...I bet they'd send or sell you a copy anyway (ATF) it's free to FFL's so have a bud that's one get you a copy or give you his old one if you can.

jimmyraythomason
August 18, 2010, 01:30 PM
It's also been stated that it's ok to ccw while dropping off or picking up, but not for any long-term visits, but I haven't found that written down anywhere.
I clearly remember when this was reported on local radio. I don't know if it was a state court ruling or legislation but it was reported in a news report that anyone(CCWs) picking up or dropping off students were not in violation of the "gun free schools" regulations.

Galt
August 18, 2010, 01:35 PM
Interesting. Why no commentary about the OP's purchasing a handgun to "prevent" petty theft? How does that fit with the notion of self defense?

jonboynumba1
August 18, 2010, 01:39 PM
just remember what I or some radio show guy says won't protect you in court...get a copy of the state code and read it sometime...that's the best answer. Most times I think common sense prevails in day to day "normal" encounters with a regular law abiding citizen in situations like that...but knowing where the letter of the law is is always good...even if you choose to take a small calculated risk in fudging it a little like my bud that lives in a school zone.

jimmyraythomason
August 18, 2010, 01:40 PM
How does that fit with the notion of self defense? It doesn't. His question was where he could carry not for opinions on his reason for carrying.

Bhamrichard
August 18, 2010, 01:46 PM
I'm going to climb out on this limb here (pass me that saw) but to the best of my knowledge, Alabama does not currently have any "gun free school zones" that extend further than the edge of the property of the school. These 1000 ft zones don't seem to appear anywhere in the Alabama code, though it does in the Federal text. However as I understand it, and IANAL, your CCW permit allows you, under both the state and federal laws, to still carry on your person in these school zones.

State Parks/Forrests, and wildlife management areas are an odd breed, you would need permission from those managing those areas to carry unless it's specifically a designated hunting area.

jimmyraythomason
August 18, 2010, 02:32 PM
I am inclined to agree with you Bhamrichard. If for example,a car is pulled over by LE on a public highway with-in the 1000 feet of a school the driver cannot be cited for violating the school zone regulations if he is carrying.

Galt
August 19, 2010, 12:43 PM
Yeah, opinions on reasons for carrying would technically be thread drift. THAT would be a travesty on THR. Still a little advice as to when deadly force is warranted could prevent a disaster for someone with a misconception about it any day. Particularly someone who is looking to carry a handgun around.

JellyJar
August 19, 2010, 01:05 PM
Sam1911

The Alabama admin code 390-x-7 only refers to State Forests, I don't see anything about National Forests.

JellyJar
August 19, 2010, 01:09 PM
Everybody..Here is more about CCW in National Forests in Alabama:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/alabama/law/

Firearms on National Forests lands in Alabama - Visitors are allowed to carry concealed firearms on National Forest general forest areas, as long as they are in possession of a valid pistol permit issued by a county sheriff. However, no weapons, concealed or otherwise, may be carried onto a forest Service or any other federal administrative office or site. Also, if the National Forest general forest area is also a State wildlife Management Area (WMA), state regulation generally prohibits all firearms unless a scheduled hunt is in progress, and even then, there are limitations on the types of firearms that may be carried. The State Department of Natural Resources should be contacted for specific regulations pertaining to firearm possession in WMAs.



Didn't the law about CCW in National Parks now allow CCW in WMAs?

I will see if I can find an answer.

jimmyraythomason
August 19, 2010, 02:32 PM
Didn't the law about CCW in National Parks now allow CCW in WMAs?
I don't know if it has changed in the last few years(and many Alabama game laws have recently) it is not legal to hunt with a handgun on Alabama WMAs.

Holiday
August 19, 2010, 03:12 PM
Actually, Alabama Game Laws HAVE changed to allow handgun hunting in Wldlife Management Areas. You must have a valid Concealed Carry Permit, though. Not sure why as you can carry it open but it's their rule.

jimmyraythomason
August 19, 2010, 03:50 PM
You must have a valid Concealed Carry Permit, though. Not sure why as you can carry it open but it's their rule.
Well,state law does require a pistol permit (as it is known in Alabama) to have a handgun in a vehicle so unless you walk from your home to the WMA,you will need one anyway.

jimmyraythomason
August 19, 2010, 04:17 PM
From the 2009-2010
Wildlife Management Area
Hunting Schedule and Information(ff) Nothing in this regulation prohibits or requires a wildlife management area permit for the possession of
handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the handguns are not used to
hunt or take or to attempt to take wildlife except as otherwise provided by this regulation. If the handgun is used for hunting a WMA permit as well as a valid Al. hunting license is required.

Holiday
August 20, 2010, 02:03 AM
Jimmy, the pistol permit is actually a concealed carry permit. If you carry an unloaded pistol in your vehicle you don't need a permit, just keep it secured AWAY from the ammunition as you would a rifle or shotgun. Locking them in seperate cases works. Last Febuary we went on a wild hog hunt in the Black Warrior WMA. THe Game Warden checked for pistol permits as well as licenses.

jimmyraythomason
August 20, 2010, 08:23 AM
the pistol permit is actually a concealed carry permit. I know,I've had one since 1972.If you carry an unloaded pistol in your vehicle you don't need a permit, just keep it secured AWAY from the ammunition as you would a rifle or shotgunAre you talking about while on a WMA? Outside of WMAs,long guns may be kept in a vehicle loaded otherwise(no permit required).If you carry an unloaded pistol in your vehicle you don't need a permit. Carrying:
•It is unlawful to carry a concealed pistol, firearm, or airgun without a permit.

•It is unlawful to carry a rifle or shotgun walking cane.

•No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own home or fixed place of business, without a license.,
•Exempt from this prohibition are law enforcement officers, common carriers, and persons carrying unloaded handguns in a secure wrapper from a place of purchase to one’s home or business, or to or from a place of repair, or in moving from one home or business to another.<http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_al.htm>

Holiday
August 20, 2010, 07:27 PM
You asked if I was going to walk to the management area. Since I usually like to drive I answered that it is legal to carry an unloaded pistol SECURED away from the driver without a permit. The laws you quote pertain to LOADED firearms. And carrying a loaded long gun in your vehicle will get you a ticket. Game Wardens will assume you are poaching. Over in Marshall County at a TVA area called Murphy Hill the local Warden would wait on hunters to leave the woods and if they didn't unload at least a 100 feet from the road it was an instant ticket.

jimmyraythomason
August 20, 2010, 07:42 PM
And carrying a loaded long gun in your vehicle will get you a ticket.Not unless you are in restricted area such as a WMA. It is perfectly legal to have a loaded long gun in your vehicle without a permit. Permits are REQUIRED all over Alabama for a handgun in your vehicle loaded or not(unless as stated in the aforementioned code). Read the Code of Alabama if you don't believe me.Over in Marshall County at a TVA area called Murphy Hill the local Warden would wait on hunters to leave the woods and if they didn't unload at least a 100 feet from the road it was an instant ticket.
__________________
Yes that is a HUNTING regulation that must be observed while on Management area land. It does not extend to other areas.

Holiday
August 22, 2010, 11:51 PM
Good luck with that.

Monkeyleg
September 18, 2010, 06:20 PM
We moved here to Decatur in Morgan county back in May. From talking to sheriff's deputies here, carry is allowed anywhere except public buildings, places posted (the hospital, for example), and demonstrations. I asked about carrying in places that serve alcohol, and the deputy said that carry in restaurants and bars was allowed. (I don't think there's any bars in Decatur, though).

Last August, when we were scoping out the area, I called the Madison and Morgan county sheriffs departments and got pretty much the same story.

This evening we're headed over to Huntsville for dinner, and I thought we might try to find a blues club, too.

Just to be certain on the bar carry (I don't drink at all), I called the sheriff's department in Madison county. The woman who answered the phone had to ask the sergeant. She came back and said that he said that the permit was for car carry only, and that I couldn't carry into a restaurant or anyplace else because that was private property.

I know that this sergeant doesn't know what the heck he's talking about, but now I don't know what the sheriff's rule is for bars in Madison county.

How can these guys not know the law at all? I can see not knowing some little particular, but not knowing the overall state law?

jimmyraythomason
September 18, 2010, 06:33 PM
I know that this sergeant doesn't know what the heck he's talking about No he doesn't. When it comes to bars,my Blount County issued CCW permit states,"4.Your pistol permit does not allow you to carry a pistol in any place that serves alcohol or while you are drinking or using any illegal drug". This may not apply to your CCW permit but I'd be willing to bet that it does.

smince
September 18, 2010, 06:39 PM
The only thing printed on back of my permit are the 4 (Cooper) safety rules :)

That said, I don't frequent bars so I don't really care if it is allowed or not. I generally wasn't carrying when I did frequent them.

Monkeyleg
September 18, 2010, 06:43 PM
There are no restrictions printed on my license.

When we came down here last August to check out neighborhoods, I called Morgan and Madison County sheriffs to make sure that carry in a restaurant that served alcohol was allowed. I actually called more than once so I'd get answers from more than one deputy, and was told that carry in such restaurants was allowed.

When we were moved into our house here, I called the Morgan county sheriff's department again to ask about the alcohol issue. The deputy said that carry was allowed, but he didn't think it was a good idea.

When I asked why, he said that carrying in bars could lead to trouble if people are drunk. When I explained that I was asking about carrying in a restaurant like Ruby Tuesday's, he said that wasn't a problem. I then asked if he had meant that carry in a bar was legal, and he said yes.

I'd be very surprised if carry in a restaurant that served wasn't allowed.

The only reason I wanted to know about bars is that I thought we might hit a blues club if there's one around.

HarleyFixer
September 18, 2010, 06:44 PM
Each Sheriff has the right to limit carry on his permits so it changes from county to county.

Monkeyleg
September 18, 2010, 06:54 PM
Each Sheriff has the right to limit carry on his permits so it changes from county to county.

That much I know. Here's a question, though: since state law doesn't address bars and restaurants, does the sheriff have to put that restriction on the permit as the Blount County sheriff did?

smince
September 19, 2010, 08:39 AM
Keep it concealed.

Don't act like an @$$.

No problems.

Big boy rules apply.

Monkeyleg
September 19, 2010, 11:02 AM
Keep it concealed.

Don't act like an @$$.

No problems.

Big boy rules apply.

I know, but even though it's never happened, there's always a small chance that a cop may learn that you're carrying. Maybe your cover garment rides up enough that someone can see, maybe you get frisked for some odd reason (happened to me many times)...there's always a chance.

jimmyraythomason
September 19, 2010, 11:07 AM
Just as a side note, Blount County Alabama is DRY so there are no (legal) bars in the county. There are some "members only" clubs here that serve alcohol. Even if state law does not directly address concealed carry in bars,if your permit is voided by you acting badly in a bar you can and likely will be charged with illegal possession of a concealed fiream.

Monkeyleg
September 19, 2010, 11:13 AM
Even if state law does not directly address concealed carry in bars,if your permit is voided by you acting badly in a bar you can and likely will be charged with illegal possion of a concealed fiream.

The worst thing I ever did in a bar was sing.

Tommygunn
September 19, 2010, 01:13 PM
The worst thing I ever did in a bar was sing.

I don't even do THAT in the shower ... anymore ...... :uhoh::eek:

CSA 357
September 19, 2010, 01:56 PM
it is not real clear, but i do know no ccw in court house ,bars, schools, all the places where you realy need a gun! lol just kidding! im in cullman co and i carry every place i go but the places i said early in the post mine has 6 things on the back not to do, no open carry, only for the state of alabama and any state with reciprocal with alabama, void if arrested on any charg, no ccw in a place thatSERVES ALCOHOL or while you are drinking,no ccw in air terminal court house city county state or federal building

jimmyraythomason
September 19, 2010, 03:18 PM
no open carry It isn't a permit for open carry because open carry is lawful in Alabama without a permit.

ArthurDent
September 19, 2010, 03:35 PM
Mr. SammyLBusby seems to have gone away after one day's activity here, but in case he comes back, and for the sake of everyone else who might read this:

IANAL (MOST DEFINITELY, I Am NOT A Lawyer), but here is my understanding of carry laws in AL.

On your own property, it seems that you are legally allowed to do mostly what you want as long as you legally own the firearm, and as long as you don't do something criminal like threatening folks, etc. If you own your own land, great! If you are renting or rooming with a non-family member, I don't know what the rules are. I would assume the worst in this case, and act as if I was on public land.

In a car, you MUST have a permit if you want to even have a loaded handgun in the car AT ALL, unless you are on your own property. This quote is MOST DEFINITELY WRONG according to my reading of the law (IANAL, etc...): ... I know I can have it in the vehicle with me... Again, WRONG.


It SHOULD go without saying, but (again, as I understand it, IANAL, etc...) you are NOT legally allowed to shoot or even threaten someone with a firearm if they are merely stealing your stuff. The only time you could legally defend using a firearm at all is if they are threatening your life or health, or the life or health of someone else.


Many, many thanks for the references to actual legal sources, rather than offering mere personal opinions like I have just done. ;) My opinions here are based on my reading of these and other documents. But again, IANAL, etc... Study and learn for yourself!

Be safe!

CSA 357
September 19, 2010, 04:24 PM
anyone ever try open carry? if you cant do it with a permit how can you do it without? just asking

jimmyraythomason
September 19, 2010, 04:32 PM
I often open carry,usually a sidearm while in the deer woods. You definitely do not need a permit to open carry,but you do need the permission of the owner of the property you are on. You WILL need a permit to have a pistol on you(open carry or concealed) while inside a motor vehicle. The only thing I have ever been asked while open carrying by a LEO was what caliber it was(if you have a sidearm while deer hunting,it has to be at least a centerfire to be legal).

CSA 357
September 19, 2010, 05:43 PM
and 40 cal or bigger, thats crazy you can use a 40 s&w but not a 357 magnum

jimmyraythomason
September 19, 2010, 05:49 PM
No caliber size minimum only that it is centerfire. A .357 magnum is allowed for deer. From the Alabama regulations : legal firearms for harvesting deer."DEER: Stalk Hunts - Centerfire rifles that have been plugged or are otherwise incapable of holding more
than 11 cartridges and using mushrooming and/or expanding type ammunition, shotguns using slugs or
single round balls, muzzle loading firearms .40 caliber or larger, or centerfire handguns with a minimum 4
inch barrel length using mushrooming and/or expanding type ammunition. All applicable laws regarding
possessing and carrying handguns must be followed."

Monkeyleg
September 19, 2010, 05:55 PM
As I read all of these posts, I'm thinking it would be a good idea to contact every sheriff (not a deputy, but the sheriff) in the state and get in writing his/her policy for carry. Then it could be made available on the internet so people would know what's legal and what isn't.

It would be better to have a state law making the list of prohibited places uniform throughout the state. The downside to that would be that counties with less restrictions would probably wind up with more.

mgkdrgn
September 19, 2010, 06:18 PM
When you are "carrying at home", also keep in mind that in most places (TX being the only exception I am aware of), you can't use deadly force to protect property.

They break into your house, while you are inside, thats another whole thing. Pull a gun on a guy trying to steal your wheels/tires ... you could both end up going to court.

dennis3301
September 19, 2010, 07:12 PM
In Alabama you can legally open carry but LEOs do not advise it as you will get stopped as some one will turn you in. I carry concealed in restaurants that serve alcohol all the time in the city of Huntsville. I have talked to Police officers and Deputies and they all say it is legal if you have a permit, they then ask for mine and look at it and say thank you. I have not been asked if I was carrying. I am in a wheelchair and use a fanny pack.

Bhamrichard
September 19, 2010, 08:57 PM
Lets clear this up a bit.

Alabama Sheriffs can, and some do, add additional restrictions for permit holders in their counties. These restrictions, if printed on the permit, will be noticed and enforced statewide if your ever asked to present your permit.

Here's a few examples of misunderstandings by some persons. Again county sheriffs can add restrictions, but I'm reference State Laws concerning CCW.

----------
* Carrying with a pistol permit onto a school is not illegal without intent to "do harm"

Section 13A-11-72
Premises of a public school. The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a school composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12
(c) Subject to the exceptions provided by Section 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.
(d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.
(e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

Additionally, under Title 18 Section 922 (q), the so called Gun Free School Zone law, it states:

(1) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. Exception: This does not include possession of a firearm on private property that is not part of school grounds or possession of a loaded firearm by an individual who is licensed to do so by the State. (i.e. a concealed carry, weapon, or firearm permit).

So if you have a permit, the federal ban on firearms is not in effect in Alabama.

----------

* Patronizing a bar/restaurant where alcohol is served not illegal

Can't quote the law because there IS no law regarding CCW in establishments that serve alcohol. Consult with your county sheriff or your permit for additional restrictions for your specific county.

----------

State Parks - if you have a permit, there is no restriction on carrying your CCW into an Alabama Park. I've heard many people, and several LEO's inform others that parks are restricted, that is completely inaccurate.

8. Prohibited Devices (220-5-.08)
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement
officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written
permission of the manager or custodian in charge of the State Park visited;
provided, however, nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of
handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the
handguns are not used for any unlawful purpose. No person shall possess,
discharge or set off on or within a State park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets,
cap pistols, or other fireworks.
----------

State Forrests: Definate gray area here, State Forrests are usually also designated as Wildlife Management Areas, as such, firearms are not allowed even with a permit without the managers written approval.

Then there's the obviously ones in the post 9/11 hysteria..
Airport terminals: No
Federal Court Houses: No
Post office - Including the parking lot: No

In essence, use common sense. Alabama has some of the least restrictive gun laws in the country. But there are some misunderstandings from some about exactly where you can carry and definitely from the LEO's you may encounter, I hope this clears up at least some of it.

I tried to be succinct, sorry if I was a little long winded :D

As always IANAL, these are my admittedly layman's reading of what appears to be very straightforward statutes.

Monkeyleg
September 19, 2010, 11:38 PM
I've read the law, but with sheriffs having the ability to add their own restrictions, it's impossible to know what's legal where. Or am I allowed to carry in a place that serves alcohol in Blount county because my sheriff allows it in Morgan county?

This is where it gets confusing.

Bhamrichard
September 20, 2010, 12:33 AM
I've read the law, but with sheriffs having the ability to add their own restrictions, it's impossible to know what's legal where. Or am I allowed to carry in a place that serves alcohol in Blount county because my sheriff allows it in Morgan county?

This is where it gets confusing.

Not confusing, the restrictions printed on your permit are the ones you are held to go by. Other county sheriffs cannot restrict the permit issued by YOUR county sheriff. They will enforce the restrictions printed on the permit, but can't impose there own upon you, other than to follow state law.

Monkeyleg
September 20, 2010, 12:44 AM
Not confusing, the restrictions printed on your permit are the ones you are held to go by. Other county sheriffs cannot restrict the permit issued by YOUR county sheriff. They will enforce the restrictions printed on the permit, but can't impose there own upon you, other than to follow state law.

Is that in writing somewhere? I didn't see anything in the state statutes.

jimmyraythomason
September 20, 2010, 06:54 AM
I didn't see anything in the state statutes.
__________________
It is there you will have to dig for it though.

razorback2003
September 20, 2010, 06:04 PM
I do know when i visit Alabama I follow the state laws that the poster from Birmingham posted. The counties that put restrictions on AL pistol licenses have no bearing on my TN handgun carry permit. It is a little gray if I can carry in K-12 schools (I don't because I don't have an AL license) but I know I am not breaking the law in a restaurant or bar or in state/local government buildings or say at Univ of Alabama or Auburn (those are not K-12 schools). Alabama has pretty good state laws. Where folks down there seem to get messed up is when the sheriffs add restrictions to the licenses they issue. As long as I'm not being stupid/drunk, I can have a beer or glass of wine with my meal. I can't find a state law against it.

Bhamrichard
September 20, 2010, 08:00 PM
You know actually, the way the statute is written, even if you DO INTEND bodily harm while carrying a firearm on school property, your still exempted from being restricted on school carry.. LOL I think this was a definite "oops" on the part of the legislature.

Section 13A-11-72
Premises of a public school. The term "public school" as used in this section applies only to a school composed of grades K-12 and shall include a school bus used for grades K-12
(c) Subject to the exceptions provided by Section 13A-11-74, no person shall knowingly with intent to do bodily harm carry or possess a deadly weapon on the premises of a public school.
(d) Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to do bodily harm on the premises of a public school in violation of subsection (c) of this section is a Class C felony.
(e) Law enforcement officers are exempt from this section, and persons with pistol permits issued pursuant to Section 13A-11-75, are exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) of this section.

There's a few things that could be cleaned up by the legislature, this one, obviously, sheriff's adding restrictions, don't like that one, should be uniform. The current setup may in fact be illegal. The legislature cannot impart their law making powers onto another entity, but they seemingly do by allowing sheriffs to restrict CCW permits above and beyond what the state laws allow. Being a "May issue" state, which I really don't have a problem with, it is in practice a shall issue.

Monkeyleg
September 21, 2010, 02:03 PM
OK, I did a little more checking around, and it just gets weirder. I called the Morgan county sheriff's office. The woman I spoke with seemed to know what she was talking about. I asked if there were places off-limits for carry beyond those mentioned in state law. She said that carry in a restaurant that serves was legal, but carry in a bar was not. She also said that carry in a strip club, even if it doesn't serve alcohol, was prohibited (I didn't even know there were any strip clubs in Morgan county). Carry at a school sporting event is also prohibited.

I mentioned that someone on a forum from Blount county had the "no alcohol" provision on the back of his permit, and asked if he could carry in a restaurant that served alcohol here in Morgan county. She said no, because his permit prohibited that. I then asked, since there's no prohibitions on carry in serving establishments on my permit, if I could carry in a place that served alcohol in Blount county. She said that they have no control over other jurisdictions and those jurisdiction's restrictions.

Then I called the Blount county sheriff's office and asked about carrying there with my Morgan county permit. I was told that any restrictions they have there would apply to me even if they don't here in Morgan county (alcohol didn't matter, since Blount is dry).

None of this is written down anywhere that I can find, and it's impossible for anyone to know what's legal where. Heck, even a sergeant doesn't know the law. It wouldn't take much in the way of a mistake to get into a pile of trouble.

I realize I just moved to AL, and I don't want to be one of those uppity Yankees coming down and telling everyone how things should be done, but this really seems screwed up. Is there a state gun organization that would be interested in fixing this or is this something that nobody wants to touch?

esquare
September 22, 2010, 01:25 PM
The problem is that ccws in alabama are a revenue stream for the county sheriffs so they don't like anyone messing with them. However, I would like to see the state law changed to shall issue but still let the sheriff do the paperwork and issuing. I would also like to see the additional provisions removed that the sheriff can apply - it's almost against the state preemption law to allow that.

Actually, I would really like to see constitutional carry implemented here - that's the real answer.

jimmyraythomason
September 22, 2010, 01:30 PM
The problem is that ccws in alabama are a revenue stream for the county sheriffs so they don't like anyone messing with them. I suppose so but at only $20 per CCW issued (even less in some counties)it relies a LOT on volume!

esquare
September 22, 2010, 01:43 PM
I did a quick analysis (very, very crude data) a while ago to see what the sheriff might get from CCW permits. I figured they would be making 100k-200k annually on average (for each sheriff). That's not a whole lot, but enough that I don't any of them want to give it up. Don't quote me on the exact figures, but I came away with the impression that it's definitely a factor in the politics of gun laws in AL.

Monkeyleg
September 22, 2010, 06:15 PM
I did a quick analysis (very, very crude data) a while ago to see what the sheriff might get from CCW permits. I figured they would be making 100k-200k annually on average (for each sheriff). That's not a whole lot, but enough that I don't any of them want to give it up. Don't quote me on the exact figures, but I came away with the impression that it's definitely a factor in the politics of gun laws in AL.

The last time I'd checked, Florida had issued over a million resident and non-resident permits at $117 each, which included $42 for the fingerprint card. That's over $75 million for the state.

jimmyraythomason
September 22, 2010, 06:24 PM
which included $42 for the fingerprint card. when I was considering applying for my FFL,I had the Blount County Sheriff's office to do the fingerprinting for me. The charge was...free!

AL Ranger
December 8, 2010, 06:52 PM
Gentlemen,
Just a few thoughts:
1. For the most part, LEOs do not know the gun laws so don't ask them for gun law info.
2. Open Carry is legal in Alabama and has been since before the ALSC decision in State v Reid (ALSC 1840)
3. Alabama has two concealed carry licenses (unrestricted and qualified). If you have a restriction on your license, it's a qualified license.
4. CC license allows you to "conceal" what you can already carry openly. If your license says "this license does not permit you to carry openly", it also doesn't permit you to eat at McDonald's either. You don't need permission or license to carry openly.
5. You can carry onto school property if you have a CC license per Alabama and federal law, providing you are not there with intent to do bodily harm.

For more info on Alabama laws, legal carry or other gun matters, please visit www.alabamaopencarry.com and come to our regularly scheduled meetings around the state.

DeepSouth
December 8, 2010, 07:49 PM
3. Alabama has two concealed carry licenses (unrestricted and qualified). If you have a restriction on your license, it's a qualified license.

On the front of my last license it had unrestricted wrote on the front in bold, on the back it had 4 "restrictions" So I just did what I wanted and figured I'd pay a lawyer to figure it out if I ever had to. My new one, that was 10$ more doesn't say unrestricted, but does have the restrictions on the back. We just elected a new Sheriff, I'm gonna go have a talk with him after he get's in office.

jimmyraythomason
December 8, 2010, 07:57 PM
Deep South,if your license doesn't have a specific firearm listed,it is "unrestricted". If it has a firearm listed including the serial number,it is "qualified".

AL Ranger
December 8, 2010, 08:40 PM
Quoting from the Attorney General Quarterly Report 1955 - "Lastly, a licensed (concealed license) pistol may be carried concealed anywhere if the license be an unlimited one, but if the license be a qualified one, the pistol may be carried only in accordance with the terms of the qualifications of the license."

13A-11-75 "The Sheriff of a county, upon the application of any person residing in the county, may issue a qualified or unlimited license to such person to carry a pistol in a vehicle or concealed on or about his person..."

Having restrictions on it makes it a restricted license regardless of what is written across the top. The terms of the license is what applies under the law. You might want to ask for an unlimited or unrestricted license. But the Sheriff has discretionary powers under the law because we are a "shall" issue state.

jimmyraythomason
December 8, 2010, 09:23 PM
But the Sheriff has discretionary powers under the law because we are a "shall" issue state. Agreed. However,if you consider the individaul sheriff's restrictions as a qualified license,then there are no unrestricted license(in the literal sence). I have the usual 6 warnings on the back of my permit. No carry in in any place that serves alcohol or while drinking or using illegal drugs. It is void if you are arrested for ANY charge. It has qualifications but it is an unrestricted permit.

esquare
December 8, 2010, 11:49 PM
Anyone in lee county have any restrictions on their license? When I got mine, I got a sheet from the sheriff with information and certain 'restrictions' but on the license itself, there are none. Personally, I think each sheriff does whatever they want and how they want to do it, and it's really never been debated before.

AL Ranger
December 9, 2010, 06:06 AM
My license carries no qualifiers at all. There is nothing about where or when I can carry. Nothing about bars or alcohol or taverns or restaurants. It simply has my personal info on it like my drivers license.

jimmyraythomason
December 9, 2010, 07:39 AM
It simply has my personal info on it like my drivers license. Mine has my name,dob,desciption,and address. No dl# or other info.

esquare
December 9, 2010, 09:50 AM
So where are the restrictions supposed to be? Or, if we are in another county, I guess their officers just won't know about any?

NavyLCDR
December 9, 2010, 11:37 AM
On the front of my last license it had unrestricted wrote on the front in bold, on the back it had 4 "restrictions" So I just did what I wanted and figured I'd pay a lawyer to figure it out if I ever had to. My new one, that was 10$ more doesn't say unrestricted, but does have the restrictions on the back. We just elected a new Sheriff, I'm gonna go have a talk with him after he get's in office.

What were the restrictions on the back? They may have been simply repeats of what is prohibited by state law anyway. If that's the case, your license is unrestricted, consistent with state law.

AL Ranger
December 9, 2010, 04:29 PM
The Sheriff of every county has discretionary powers since his office has to do the background checks for the licenses. Each sheriff is allowed to add restrictions to the licenses he issues, if he so chooses. He can restrict you from going to places alcohol is served, carrying in schools or churches, or any other things he deems necessary. These restrictions are listed on the card and your license can be pulled by most, if not any, LEO who finds you in violation of those restrictions. Some licenses, like mine, have no restrictions listed on them at all. It depends on the sheriff and the politics of the particular county.

jimmyraythomason
December 9, 2010, 04:42 PM
Some licenses, like mine, have no restrictions listed on them at all. They are still subject to all federal carry restrictions (federal buildings,airports,post offices,courthouses,etc.)as well as the state restriction ( no weapons at political rallies).

DeepSouth
December 9, 2010, 06:07 PM
What were the restrictions on the back? They may have been simply repeats of what is prohibited by state law anyway. If that's the case, your license is unrestricted, consistent with state law.

No carrying in a place that served alcohol, or while you are drinking, is the only one I really remember. The others were, as you say repeats. The void if you get arrested for any reason was also one......I think.

The no carrying in a place that serves alcohol is the main one I remember, because it ticked me off.

AL Ranger
December 9, 2010, 07:03 PM
When I said that my license had no restrictions, I meant there were no "additional" restrictions added by the sheriff's department. I understand the federal and state restrictions. There is no law banning licensed carriers from schools, churches, places that serve alcohol, etc. but a sheriff can add these restrictions, and others, if he desires. That is what I was referring to.

If you enjoyed reading about "Alabama Carry Laws Question -- Update" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!