Need some opinions on safes / rsc's


PDA






xlr8d
August 17, 2010, 11:28 PM
Was looking at this, its $249 at local sams. Was looking at spending no more than 500 for some peace of mind. Not wanting anything huge, i only have 2 handguns and some misc stuff i want to store. Eventually down the road I will get a bigger one, but I think something of the size of the Mesa will last atleast a few years. Is there anything else within my price range that would be better?

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=prod460660

If you enjoyed reading about "Need some opinions on safes / rsc's" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
a1abdj
August 17, 2010, 11:46 PM
Not to confuse you too much, but the safe you linked to is not an RSC, and is merely a fire rated document safe.

Two important things about these types of safes. Although they look like safes, they offer very little security, far less than a gun safe. Most of these safe can be opened in 30 seconds or less using very basic methods.

The second important thing is that although they are great for protecting documents in a fire, they accomplish this by using a damp insulation. This can cause serious moisture problems with firearms, and there's nothing you can do to control it short of keeping the guns in an airtight container placed within the safe.

rtpzwms
August 18, 2010, 12:07 AM
Listen to a1abdj he knows safes! If you ask nice he might sell you one or tell you where you should go locally. Check youtube for breaking into a safe. It will make you think about how big a safe purchase is, so that said listen closely and make the best choice you can afford. Good Luck!:what:

xlr8d
August 18, 2010, 01:12 AM
What do you recommend around my price range? I saw a Winchester Ranger series local for around 450. Think I read on another thread you said it was garbage, but i can't remember. I went to a locksmith by my work today and he let me look at a amtec catalog. I think the cheapest thing i found was something that was right around 500 but I think it said it was imported. I was thinking of getting something smaller just go get me by for awhile, like the FT KNOX gun box, or Vline gun box... both have simplex locks I believe and run around 125-150.

Thoughts / Opinions?

a1abdj
August 18, 2010, 09:26 PM
V-line makes a wider selection of styles, but the Fort Knox is a better built unit. The Simplex lock is pretty reliable, and used widely for commercial applications. I don't think you can go wrong with either one here.

If you don't need fire resistance, look for a B rate chest. It will have 1/4" walls, and a 1/2" plate door. You can find them new starting in the $350/$400 range for a decent smaller unit. About half of that used. If you want to tell me where you're at I may be able to point you towards a safe company near you.

Sky
August 18, 2010, 09:58 PM
"Me to me to"! Brownsville, Harlingen, area Tx. But I need a big one for rifles and pistols. True value hardware in Harlingen had some starting around $800 up to $2000. I know nothing about safes...

xlr8d
August 18, 2010, 10:56 PM
Is there anything in my price range thats about the same size of the mesa, just more secure/better built? Only thing about the VLINE pistol vault and FT KNOX box is they are a bit to small for me. Thanks need to make a decision soon

a1abdj
August 18, 2010, 11:50 PM
Is there anything in my price range thats about the same size of the mesa, just more secure/better built?

Gardall H2. It's a bit smaller with inside dimensions of 9.75" x 10.75" X 9". Light enough to ship UPS, but with 1/4" plate body, 1/2" plate door, and UL rated lock. Much more secure than the MESA, but not fireproof. Costs about $420 shipped.

"Me to me to"! Brownsville, Harlingen, area Tx.

Not much in your area. I have a friend in Bay City, but that's almost 5 hours from you. Nice thing about Texas is that there are a lot of companies there. Bad thing is that Texas is so big, they're usually not close unless you're near a big city.

FAS1
August 19, 2010, 10:44 AM
That Gardall H2 looks pretty secure. Most of the small safes I have seen are pretty flimsy with a cheap electronic lock. I am thinking of one for a small wall safe.

a1abdj
August 19, 2010, 11:04 AM
AMSEC has the MS1414. It's about the same price, a little larger, but I don't think the body is a full 1/4" (The door is still 1/2"). Also has the UL listed lock.

These little guys do make decent wall safes if you have a wall deep enough to put them in.

rtpzwms
August 19, 2010, 11:10 AM
This might help:
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html

xlr8d
August 19, 2010, 06:11 PM
Sorry didn't see you asked for my location, it's DALLAS, TX

xlr8d
August 20, 2010, 01:08 PM
What about the AMSEC CSC1413 ?

http://citywidesecurity.stores.yahoo.net/amcsccomsecs.html

How's that compared to the H-2?

a1abdj
August 20, 2010, 11:55 PM
What about the AMSEC CSC1413 ?

http://citywidesecurity.stores.yahoo...sccomsecs.html

How's that compared to the H-2?

Different type of safe, but also suitable for handguns. The CSC is a lower end import (which should be fine if not under constant commercial use). It's a composite unit, which means the fill material acts as both a fire and burglary barrier. The Gardall uses heavier plate, but doesn't have a fill.

Make sure you price the safe with shipping. Sometimes these website can be a bit misleading by showing a low safe price, and then sticking you with high shipping. Of course if you decide to go that route, I might be able to get you a better price.

I also have a few other "no name" safes that are similar in construction, but a bit better quality.

DALLAS, TX

Try Tarrant County Lock & Safe @ 817-428-7333. Tell them a fellow Clearstar member sent you.

DADS357
November 15, 2010, 01:22 AM
Does any one have any personnel experience with Steelwater gun safes? And what about the Frontier/Pentagon safes from Sportsman Steel Safe Co out of Houston, Tx. Both seem to be very well made and reasonably priced. 2k is about my ceiling right now, and these seem to fit the bill.

a1abdj
November 15, 2010, 09:39 AM
Steelwater is a Chinese import. Decent safe for the price.

Lots of horror stories out there about Sportsman Steel. Might want to Google them and do some research first.

DADS357
November 15, 2010, 05:23 PM
Thank you for the reply....I did as you suggested and it seems that there has been a bit of negatives about Sportsman, but I haven't seen or heard anything yet on Steelwater. I've seen their video and am very impressed with them...would I expect any thing less! I have also been looking at Hollon/Republic safes. What does anyone think about them? It can be confusing at times.

LTROI
November 15, 2010, 05:48 PM
I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this too DADS. I'm in the market for a good gun safe (RSC) too. I'd like it to be American made, be able to hold at least 20 long guns plus some additional misc stuff, have some fire protection and cost less than 3,000 dollars. I've been looking at Fort Knox safes and they look pretty nice to me from a quality standpoint. Does anyone own a Fort Knox safe or something similar that they like, thanks.

a1abdj
November 15, 2010, 07:12 PM
but I haven't seen or heard anything yet on Steelwater. I've seen their video and am very impressed with them...would I expect any thing less!

I don't like videos from manufacturers for a number of reasons. The same manufacturer that makes the Steelwater is the same manufacturer that used to build a line of safes I used to sell. I never had any problems with them, although they are far from the best safes built. I think it's a good value as far as Chinese safes go.

I'd like it to be American made, be able to hold at least 20 long guns plus some additional misc stuff, have some fire protection and cost less than 3,000 dollars. I've been looking at Fort Knox safes and they look pretty nice to me from a quality standpoint. Does anyone own a Fort Knox safe or something similar that they like, thanks.


The AMSEC BF series fits that description, and in my opinion, is the best value in its price range.

I have dealt with a number of Fort Knox safes, and although they build a good safe, there's a lot of stuff that you're paying for that has nothing to do with the security of the safe itself.

Ultra
November 15, 2010, 07:38 PM
I was also thinking of those brands. Are the amsec bf made in the USA?

LTROI
November 15, 2010, 08:33 PM
a1abdj,

I did read the earlier discussions here about the AMSEC BF and the Sturdy Safe and they are both on my short list. For the Fort Knox, I'm looking at the Protector. Can you give an example of what I would be paying for that's not security related? Is it all the bolts? Thanks

DADS357
November 15, 2010, 08:45 PM
Not at all...I have about 12 rifles and 12 handguns at the moment. I am sure I will pick up a few more along the way in the next few years. What I really want is a safe that at least 72Hx40Wx28-30D. I rather have a external hinge set up as so I can open it a full 180 or so, I know that if I don't get that then I will regret in the end. I've seen a Liberty Franklin model 50 that I fell in love with , but only internal hinges....that was the only negative that I had with it...again temping but for that price $ 2500.00 I would rather have the external hinges. The second thing is that it has to be American made...in that I will not compromise. I will continue to research and of course heed the great advise found this forum.

a1abdj
November 15, 2010, 09:14 PM
Are the amsec bf made in the USA?

California.

I did read the earlier discussions here about the AMSEC BF and the Sturdy Safe and they are both on my short list.

Where fire protection is high on the list, I think the AMSEC is hard to beat. The Sturdy really shines when fire proofing isn't that important, as it can be purchased as a steel safe only.

Can you give an example of what I would be paying for that's not security related? Is it all the bolts?

Some of it is the brand name. Fort Knox also tends to spend more on the fit and finish. In your specific example, the Protector is the same safe as the Defender, but with a nicer paint job. Their boltwork also usually has a bit more to it than your typical gun safe. It cost more to produce, but probably wouldn't benefit your average gun safe owner in any way.

DADS357
November 15, 2010, 09:49 PM
Oh yeah, I was checking out the Fort Knox safes as well...very high end indeed. I was just looking at the Patriot web site and they are currently having a sale and also comes with some nice upgrades and free shipping as well. And their site states American Made!

a1abdj
November 15, 2010, 10:24 PM
I was just looking at the Patriot web site and they are currently having a sale and also comes with some nice upgrades and free shipping as well. And their site states American Made!

If it's the Patriot I'm thinking of, they are fibbing.

heeler
November 16, 2010, 08:10 AM
LTROI,before I finally broke out the check book and paid for my Amsec BF I researched just about every gun safe on the market and finally settled on three to choose from and they were the Amsec,Sturdy with fireliner,and an upgraded FT.Knox Defender.
I priced the Defender with the free outside hinges and the body upgrade from the standard 10 gauge body to the 3/16th body which upgraded the fire door from a 1/4 inch plate door to a 3/8th plate steel door.
I also priced it with the standard 10 gauge body and the additional 10 gauge inner steel wall.
But as nice as it was,and they are nice looking gun safes,it was still $5-600.00 higher than either the BF or Sturdy.
I really liked how the Sturdy was built but for what I was about to shell out monetarily I just could not buy one sight unseen.
I saw several BF's as there are several Amsec dealers in Houston.
I am totally pleased with my BF 66X36.
If it's American made you want then look at these three closely.

LTROI
November 16, 2010, 04:26 PM
Fort Knox also tends to spend more on the fit and finish. In your specific example, the Protector is the same safe as the Defender, but with a nicer paint job

Wow, I didn't realize that well I think the Defender looks nice enough so that's the one I'll compare the others against.

LTROI,before I finally broke out the check book and paid for my Amsec BF I researched just about every gun safe on the market and finally settled on three to choose from and they were the Amsec,Sturdy with fireliner,and an upgraded FT.Knox Defender.

Thanks a lot for the response heeler. I really don't have much experience with gun safes but a friend of mine had his house broken into and they couldn't get into his Ft Knox safe but they weren't very well prepared and my friend was smart enough to keep all the things that could break into his safe inside the safe.

Actually looking at all three of these guns safes, they all look like quality products. I guess I'm going to have to put it on paper to compare against each other.

heeler
November 16, 2010, 06:50 PM
LTROI,when you put it to paper if you find an Amsec dealer either local or online that deals I can tell you straight up there will be so little difference in the pricing of the Amsec vs Sturdy Minute Man that it will be just which ever one you prefer or feel best buying.
They are both quality gun safes at a very,very competitive price and pretty much out do many other gun safes that cost a bit more to a great bit more.
The Fort Knox is a very nice gun safe but as I mentioned I just could not justify the extra money for one.
Although to their credit the local Knox dealer was willing to deliver it and bolt it down cheaper than anyone else in town.
Last,as I have said before in these gun safe threads here that if you have one of these premium gun safes and bolt it down and place it so they are very hard to pry attack unless the person(s) breaking in to your home knows about the safe in advance it is highly unlikely they will breech the gun safe with what they have brought with them.
Hence dont leave tools available to them to make their rotten lives easier.

LTROI
November 16, 2010, 10:09 PM
heeler, I see now what you are saying about Fort Knox. It doesn't take much to get well over $3000 with the Defender with just a couple upgrades and that's for only a 10ga body. And, it looks like the fire protection is just "fire board" which is dry wall right?

To compare Apple to Apples with the AMSEC BF and the Sturdy, I thought it would be best to compare a similar Fort Knox model for steel thickness and fire protection and in that case it would be their Executive model with a 3/16" steel body (like the Sturdy). The Fort Knox Executive of dimensions 60"x31"x25" looks to be going for $4504 with a discount ($5630 retail) which is almost double what the other two are going for with similar features.

Fort Knox safes look really nice and of high quality and also appeal to the geek in me with all the complex gearing and bolt arrangements but I agree with you, just too much money for what you're getting. I guess I see why there are so many AMSEC BF verses Sturdy threads around here, much more safe for the money with those two it seems.

Keizer
November 16, 2010, 10:25 PM
Fort Knox safes look really nice and of high quality and also appeal to the geek in me with all the complex gearing and bolt arrangements

Man I hear ya.....I love the bolt work on those Fort Knox safes. I would probably put a clear lexan panel on the inside if I owned one. That way I could admire the inner workings every time I opened the safe.

I too went through what heeler did when researching gun safes. The AMSEC BF series, and Sturdy were my two safes that were in the final running. I went with the AMSEC because I thought they looked better. And, since both were equal (IMO) in security and price, I chose the one that I thought looked nicer.

Hedgemeister
November 16, 2010, 10:55 PM
I have a Rhino safe. They are made in Idaho and have external hinges. 2.5 hour fire rating and you should be able to find the size you are looking for under $2500.

DADS357
November 18, 2010, 12:18 PM
I recently spoke in length to a gentlemen in Longbeach CA by the name of Tony concerning the stories behind their safes, he matter of factly contacted me personally after receiving my email. Obviously he stated that customer service is there top priority and safe quality as well. He also admitted freely that in the past they have had negative feedback, but however the individuals that were responsible for this have since departed or simply fired due to their poor service. The company is working very hard to re establish a good rapport with its customers and insure that the quality of their safes are in accordance to their claims (sounded very sincere) and that's its a up hill battle. What would you expect them to say? However in their defense, no one would state that they have poor service or inferior products, that would be business suicide. I have read numerous post on this company, the majority was negative and quiet honestly a little scary, however the majority of the post were between 3-4 years old as well. Now I have worked for various businesses that have initially at one point in their history had very poor customer customer and negative feed back...but I have also seen them do a complete 180 thru a lot of hard work of it's personnel. I would very much like to hear more recent problems with this or any other company. They cant be all bad, I hope! Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fool, however it's easier to decide not to purchase based on negatives, but what about purchasing on positives!

LTROI
November 18, 2010, 09:12 PM
DADS357,

I had them on my list earlier because I thought they were American made safes but I read a comment from someone who received a safe from them that actually said Made in China on the cardboard box. There were a host of other complaints I read about them and I said no way, if a company isn't honest or their customers aren't pleased with the product or service they received, I want no part of them. And even looking at their safes, they aren't even a good deal for what you are getting compared to some of the more popular brands and especially AMSEC and Sturdy. Look at their Commerative Arsenal for $2300 (similar to a comparable AMSEC BF or fire lined Sturdy). It only has a 10ga body and no where does it say it's actually made in the US it only says various parts such as the S&G lock are made in the US. If I want to buy a decent Chinese made safe, I'll get that Steelwater safe someone posted on here earlier for a lot less money and more steel. Of course, I could be wrong and don't really have a strong opinion one way or another it's just not on my list anymore.

Keizer
November 18, 2010, 10:03 PM
I'll get that Steelwater safe someone posted on here

Steelwater has some pretty good vids of different types of attacks on their safes if you do a search. I've watched all them, and they are pretty interesting.

LTROI
November 18, 2010, 10:33 PM
If I want to buy a decent Chinese made safe, I'll get that Steelwater safe someone posted on here earlier for a lot less money and more steel.

Opps, DADS I see you were the person that posted about Steelwater safes. Steelwater looks like a pretty good deal to me in a comparison between Sportsman Steel Safes.

Hedgemeister
November 19, 2010, 01:20 AM
If you like the Steelwaters also look at Bighorns. 10 gauge steel but made in China. You can buy them from Costco and have them delivered.

Superpsy
November 19, 2010, 04:51 PM
Anyone interested? (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11594656&search=gun+safe&Mo=8&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=gun+safe&Ntt=gun+safe&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1) Price drop. I'm thinking of picking one up.

If you enjoyed reading about "Need some opinions on safes / rsc's" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!