[fightlife1437]

I wanna get a good duty pistol that fires .40 cal my biggest pet peeve on it would be reliablilty it must shoot everytime any ideas?

[omegaflame]

May I suggest trying out an HK USP (tactical?) in .40?

[usp9]

Hk USP, Hk P2000, Hk P30, Glock 23, Sig 226, 229. These are all top tier guns.

[WC145]

^^^^^^What they said! You won't go wrong with any of those choices.
Personally I carry a 9mm 1911 on duty, but I've got a nice, near new SIG P229R .40 I'm selling, PM me if your interested.:)

[P30shtr]

Any of the "3 amigos" (HK,SIG,Glock) will suit you just fine. Although I say P30 in .40 first or USP or P2000. Good luck, thanks for your service. :)

[Thaddeus Jones]

Another vote for the USP 40. We were issued them back in the 90's. Light to carry and rock solid reliable. Accurate too. TJ

[X hunter]

My first question would be"What does your agency require?"

[Shawn Dodson]

.40 caliber? S&W Military & Police (M&P)

Definitely not Glock in .40. (BTW, my carry gun for many years was a Glock 19. Glock makes what is probably the best 9mm handgun, but the unsupported chamber in their .40 caliber pistols makes them susceptible to case rupture (also known as "kaBoom!" (kB!)).

I advise against Springfield Xd pistols because the grip safety must be operated to retract the slide - something that may be difficult to do if the shooter must operate the slide one-handed due to injury.

I carried a Beretta 96FS on police patrol. It functioned flawlessly and shot accurately. However I never really warmed up to the slide mounted manual safety lever.

Good luck with your choice.

[searcher451]

Take a good look at the Walther P99. It's a top-of-the-line handgun in all accounts: accurate, reliable, 100% dependable.

[stchman]

A Glock would be your best bet.

[Thorgrim]

Another thought - if I had a job where I was extremely dependent on my duty weapon, I'd first find a good gunsmith that specializes in whatever piece you end up carrying - and the availability and particular specialties of such a gunsmith may have a lot to do with your choice. It's amazing what a good smith can do for a factory pistol, and a "reliability job" may not be all that expensive. There are also a lot of very good police dept. armourers out there, and even if your dept. isn't big enough to have one, you might see if a brother officer in a bigger P.D. can help you out.

[FastMover]

A Glock 22 is THE standard for most police deparments in the Southeast. I would suggest that or the Springfield XD. Both are excellent shooters.

[Justin]

I wanna get a good duty pistol that fires .40 cal my biggest pet peeve on it would be reliablilty it must shoot everytime any ideas?

Any firearm from any of the major makers will fit the bill. As to reliability, no company makes a gun that shoots every single time no matter what. The major gun makers all manufacture guns with acceptable levels of reliability, but even the best gun will choke on a piece of ammo that's out of spec, has no powder, etc.

Regardless of what you settle on, learn the proper procedures for clearing a jam, and then practice them.

[slicksleeve]

Get the Glock 22, and don't worry about the famous internet "KaBooms."

[valorius]

Or the famous internet Glock Leg (TM)?

If you have the money, get the HK.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Does your department or agency allow personally owned sidearms? Some only allow you to purchase from an "approved list" (notably NYPD). Others issue your sidearm, and you're stuck with it, period. But, if you do have such flexibility, you're unlikely to go wrong with full size duty pistols from any of the major manufacturers. Personally, I think I would lean towards a S&W M&P, with night sights.

[contender]

if this is for work, there might be an "approved" list that will weed choices down.....

glock rules the roost from what i see in duty holsters........followed by sig and then beretta in issued weapons.

as far as private purchase, i probably see about as many springfield xd pistols as glocks around small depts.

check the availability in leather and holster styles should you stray away from main stream.......

[REAPER4206969]

Get a Glock 22 or 23 and be done with it.

[Joe Demko]

I carried a full-size USP .40 for several years and still own it. It's accurate and I've never had a malfunction of any kind with it. The checkering on the grip is a bit more aggressive than it needs to be, though. The trigger is acceptable, but not great. Maybe they've changed this in recent versions, I bought mine in the '90s, but the grip either fits you or it doesn't. It's all one piece and can't be modified. Not easily or cheaply, anyway.
More recently, I've become acquainted with the S&W line of M&P automatics. I'd give these a close look if your agency authorizes their use. The interchangeable backstraps allow you to fit the gun to your hand rather than vice versa. My M&P .45 is terrific and if I ever find myself shopping for another .40 , I'll quite likely get another M&P.

[bds]

Most newer semi-autos will be reliable enough for your purpose. Instead of picking a brand/model, I would recommend that you try out some range rental guns (dirtier the better to test real-life reliability) with the same factory ammunition and/or one your department issues and see which pistol you are most comfortable/happy/accurate with.

I helped select plenty of pistols for new shooters and they were very surprised when they actually did comparison shoots side-by-side. Their "perceived" notions of particular brands/models of pistol based on biased articles/reviews were quite contrary to the actual range shooting experience with THEIR hands.

Shoot first and let your hands/shot groups decide for you.

Of course, I am partial to Glock 22 and M&P40. BTW, are you left handed? M&P is one of few pistols with ambi-slide lock/release, better ergonomics than Glocks and 3 size grip inserts that will readily accommodate most hand sizes (even small ones). That said, I keep G22/G27 very close by for SD/HD purposes at all times.

[DFW1911]

I would recommend that you try out some range rental guns (dirtier the better to test real-life reliability) with the same factory ammunition and/or one your department issues and see which pistol you are most comfortable/happy/accurate with.

Great advice!

Another consideration: will you carry a railed gun and mount a light / laser? If so, I'd suggest trying your nominees in low light / dark conditions if possible.

Good luck: some great suggestions so far.

Oh, and thanks for your service!

Be safe,
DFW1911

[armoredman]

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-p07-duty/
Available in 40, designed for LE.

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-p06/
Good size for duty or CCW use.

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-sp-01-tactical/
Solid full size gun, decocker variant.

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-b/
The classic original.

Now that I trotted out my faves in 40SW, I have to ask, you say duty pistol, is this for an LE or security job? What does the Dept/company reccomend/issue? Is this for JUST duty, or CCW off duty, if allowed?

[sarduy]

Sw m&p .40

[jmstevens2]

.40 caliber? S&W Military & Police (M&P)

Definitely not Glock in .40. (BTW, my carry gun for many years was a Glock 19. Glock makes what is probably the best 9mm handgun, but the unsupported chamber in their .40 caliber pistols makes them susceptible to case rupture (also known as "kaBoom!" (kB!)).

I advise against Springfield Xd pistols because the grip safety must be operated to retract the slide - something that may be difficult to do if the shooter must operate the slide one-handed due to injury.

I carried a Beretta 96FS on police patrol. It functioned flawlessly and shot accurately. However I never really warmed up to the slide mounted manual safety lever.

Good luck with your choice.
Then why did the FBI just order ANOTHER 2300 Glock 23s? I would bet they fire them an awful lot and since they already have about 10000 of them, i suspect they researched them pretty well.
Weren't the kabooms in the Glock 22 and the 10mms? and weren't they due to overcharged reloads?
Are we talking about .40 S&W or 10mm which is also .40 caliber?
I have a Glock 23 and have full faith in it.

[REAPER4206969]

Then why did the FBI just order ANOTHER 2300 Glock 23s?
2,963

[Welding Rod]

I don't have a lot of experience with 40s, only owned a couple Glock 23s and a Sig 226 and a Sig 229.

I can say though that the Sig 226 is a lovely shooter with 40 S&W.

[klash545]

glock 22 is popular for a very good reason,you won't find a better value for a duty gun

[ultraspec]

If you get an HK do your self a favor and get the LEM trigger on it, the standard HK DA trigger is horrible and VERY heavy.

This coming from someone who carries an HK USP 40 on duty, and had it converted to LEM later on, I also own a P2000Sk and I made sure to buy it with the LEM on it already. I also just acquired another HK and it came used with the DA trigger, I had forgotten how damn bad the DA trigger in on HK's


My recommendation to you is a HK P30S in .40 very customizable grip and can get the lem trigger on them

[jmstevens2]

The mind slips as you age. A Bunch of 23s

[speaksoftly]

Sig P226 is about as "duty" as it gets. Absurdly reliable, accurate, balanced, and just awesome in general. My 226 .40 is what I would grab if I knew I'd have to use one pistol for the rest of my life.

[fightlife1437]

they don't mind what it is really as long as it's practical and not a revolver which anyone today for the most part putting their life in the gun you would think that was obvious I can have some mods like if I was to get a glock I can have the veridian green lazer but the problem with that is the holster is not a very reliable one in my mind

[SwampWolf]

I'd recommend a Smith&Wesson Model 4006. There are still plenty of police trade-ins out there that are pretty affordable. The down-side to this pistol is that it's pretty heavy. The up-sides include extreme reliability and the fact it's built like a tank.

[valorius]

glock 22 is popular for a very good reason,you won't find a better value for a duty gun
Unless you buy an FNP, a Sig, a Springfield, a S&W, a Ruger, or better still...a used HK.

[speaksoftly]

Unless you buy an FNP, a Sig, a Springfield, a S&W, a Ruger, or better still...a used HK.

^^^ and you can shoot reloads with the above choices. As much as ammo costs these days, if I switched to a pistol that I couldn't shoot reloads in, it would end up costing me more in ammo than what I saved on the initial gun purchase. Not worth it IMHO...I'd rather have a gun I can afford to shoot.

[Justin]

You can shoot reloads through a Glock. Just be sure to use jacketed bullets like the ones from Montana Gold.

[rd2007]

XDm .40
I shot both that and my new Gen 44 22 one day and my son is getting the 22 as a b-day present. There's just no comparing anything about the two.

[sohcgt2]

Why would someone be concerned about shooting reloads in a duty weapon. Isn't ammo supplied by your agency?

[contender]

not all agencies provide duty ammo..........or practice ammo.

If they do not provide a weapon i can certainly see them not providing the ammo.

been that way a long time especially with smaller depts.

There are some good deals to be found on the used LEO market. Glocks, berettas, and smiths.

[Welding Rod]

It was some time ago (late 80s) but I am pretty sure I visited at least a few PDs and/or Sheriff Depts in Colorado that reloaded their own ammo.

I also remember being shocked to learn of some of them paying FT officers 12 & 14 bucks an hour.

[Skylerbone]

If you plan on training with your pistol frequently know this: every manufacturer I can think of advises against using anything other than factory fresh ammo. Anything else will void the warranty. (although most will stand by even major failures should you choose to use reloads).

As for Glock KBs, a Gen II or Gen III will support as much of the casing as the other pistols suggested. None of them have fully supported chambers due to the design of their respective casings.

Shooting lead and barrel choices: there are three main types; polygonal which is hammer forged around an insert, button rifled which pulls a hardened cutter through a blank to create the grooves in a single pass and broach cut which uses progressively larger cutters to remove material until the finished dimension is achieved. All of these will lead up to one degree or another. It could start with the first round or the 100th, every barrel is different. My advice is to shoot plated bullets to extend barrel life and minimize the chance of a KB. If you shoot lead, clean the barrel carefully before shooting any jacketed rounds.

Now to choice: it has already been noted that NO firearm is 100% reliable. There are a number of excellent choices that have been listed thus far and one or more is sure to catch your fancy or at least fit you properly. Some have extensive aftermarket support, some are easier to field strip.

I like the M&P series and shoot a 40 Full Size and 9 Compact. My wife has a 9 Long slide. My 40 has now surpassed the 1500 round mark without a single FTF, FTE or any other malfunctions. Out of the box all three needed a bit of adjustment to the slide stops (which I rarely use preferring the slingshot method). Excepting weak wristing by the wife, none has had any issue in firing lead, FMJ, plated and HP factory/reloaded ammo. I would recommend stippling the grip insert or using grip tape as it tends to be a bit slick when wet.

The M&Ps have a rebate available, $50 or two free magazines. The 40 can also be converted to 357Sig with an $80 factory barrel using the same mag or, by using an aftermarket conversion barrel (around $150) can be converted to 9mm (with seperate mags).

I vote for the M&P with no ill will toward the others.

[jmstevens2]

Of course my favorite when I was on was the one I carried, S&W model 686. Limp wristing was never a problem and 2 speed loaders seemed enough back then. 18 whole rounds! Of course many of us kept a pouch full for extras just in case. Some even kept some extra speed loaders in the car.

[postalnut25]

It was some time ago (late 80s) but I am pretty sure I visited at least a few PDs and/or Sheriff Depts in Colorado that reloaded their own ammo.

I also remember being shocked to learn of some of them paying FT officers 12 & 14 bucks an hour.
There won't be any agencies shooting reloads. Insurance reasons would preclude that.

There are still some departments in Colorado that haven't topped $12 an hour yet. MOst of them are in the southern part of the state.

[gbw]

I'd look hard also at FN's FNX-40.

[wunderkind]

Glock 23: big enough for duty, small enough to carry on days off. And, being somewhat of an industry standard, magazines and holsters will not be hard to get.

[gun guy]

It is odd, Since Glock came out, It wasn't till today, i heard about the Glock Kaboom. Many automatics besides Glock are unsupported at the back of the cartridge, including the 1911, I'm not sure when the 1911 government model was introduced, but it was a long time ago. There have been a few reports of case failure with the 1911 as well, but it is usually due to overloaded ammo, or weak cases. Keep in mind, there are alot of "experts" in the 25 yo range, with countless hours of gun rag time, and are almost a 3rd level xboxer. And parrot with athority something, another "expert" told them, they heard, from a 5th level xboxer with 4 magazine subscriptions. What more do you need? I suspect the Glock kaboom is in this catagory. I have NEVER seen a notice on this by Glock. If someone has, an official recall or fix, from Glocks repair department, on this issue, please post it. I wont hold my breath waiting for this one.

[Jonah71]

After about 400 rounds I can say with all seriousness.......Don't make it a Kahr .40!

[possum]

xd service model in .40 ( i have 2) one of which i have had for a few years and it has over 17,500rds through it.

glock 23 is another good option, however i believe that if you go with a glock in that size it should be the 19.

also look into the m&P lots of people in the training industry are using them with great sucess nowadays.

[lanber]

Beretta 96

[easyg]

I wanna get a good duty pistol that fires .40 cal my biggest pet peeve on it would be reliablilty it must shoot everytime any ideas?

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n165/allenXdog/HPIM6636.jpg

[Strahley]

Glock 23/23
SIG P229/P226/SP2022

Those are my choices

[Skylerbone]

Breathe gun guy...when the color returns to your face, visit Google and do a search, that's what we old timers do. No one here can be witness to every failure of every model of every firearm thus a forum was created to exchange information. Verification of what is presented is up to the reader. The ostrich plan is to deny learning from others' hard learned lessons and yes, occasional misinformation.

Glock has in fact (again you may wish to verify) spoken of the matter and while generally citing user error as the culprit, has modified their chamber design at the point of failure. Is it their fault? Maybe. No one can reshoot the suspect round so it eludes analysis leaving only the weapon to be scrutinized. What a 1911 brings to the table is the ability more often than not to stay in the fight if a round ruptures thanks in no small part to all that steel.

[Cards81fan]

.40 runs a lot higher pressure than .45 ACP, thus the chamber support is more crucial in that caliber. Is the kB rare? Sure. Is it a myth? Not quite, as there are documented instances of it happening. I would be more concerned of a Glock in .40 having feeding and/or extraction problems when coupled with a weapon-mounted light than I ever would be a kaboom.

That said, the instances of either are fairly low, so I would have no problem recommending a Glock in .40 as a duty weapon. Or an XD, or an M&P. Whichever one fits you best, pick it.

I don't have anything against a Sig or Beretta except I don't like DA/SA pistols, nor the weight if I had to carry on my belt all day. Give me something in polymer.

[Fishman777]

M&P 40.

Great ergonomics, low bore axis, fully supported chamber, 15 round capacity, good sights, decent trigger (better with apex trigger). I am totally sold on the M&P line of handguns. If you want it high end, get the M&P 40 pro. Improved trigger and night sights.

[Skylerbone]

The M&P 40 does not fully support the cartridge as has already been stated. It is impossible with the extraction method used. It supports as much as the others listed including the Glocks (save the Gen I). There are also two M&P 40 Pro Series pistols, one in 5" long slide with FO sights and the other the "full size" 4 1/4" with night sights.

Again, a fine list has been compiled. If you would like to carry concealed while off duty the M&P compact will accommodate you and convert to a nearly full size with a standard mag and an x-grip spacer, leaving you with a 3 1/2" barrel.

Whatever you choose, you should look into a good set of sights if not factory equipped. TFO (tritium fiber optic) is an excellent choice for day and night use as they combine both for visibility in all lighting conditions. Stock plastic Glock sights can quite easily snag on a holster and break leaving you with a perfect trench gun.

Lots of details to sort out that will ultimately make one shine above the rest or at least give you an idea of true cost. Whether you're life is worth the price of a few add-ons is hopefully not in question.

Good luck and stay safe.

[Fishman777]

Look at the glock barrels in the website below. There are a lot of shadows at the interface between the casing and the barrel, so it is hard to see the amount of support. That is a G3 barrel on the right. The G3 barrel support is actually better than the aftermarket barrel, but it is still not as good as what you have with other makes and models. The best way to see the level of support is actually to adjust the intensity in Photoshop. I've done this before and can assure you that the support is not the same as an M&P, the XD, the PX4, or the USP.

http://www.christiangunowner.com/glockreviews.html

Now look at this review:

http://www.gunblast.com/SW_MP.htm

So help me out with this.

How can you say that they are the same?

The casing support shown in the Gunblast site looks better than any picture that I've ever seen on any generation of Glock. Sorry. The issue of chamber support is not some fairy tale that Glock haters came up with.

I have an M&P9 and have looked and the level of support myself. To my eyes it fully supports the casing. No question.

If you didn't like the first picture, here is another M&P link:

http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20278

Glocks are good firearms. They don't, however, fully support the chamber. Go to Glockworld, go to Glocktalk, go anywhere and you'll read the same things. The M&P fully supports the casing. I proved it with pictures, not arguments. A lot of other polymer pistols also fully support the casing.

[UnTainted]

The sigs have the best triggers, IMO, which will help when shooting.

They handle the 40 the best, also IMO. I like the way the 229 feels in my hand over the 226, but it's not that I don't like the 226. Own both, I went with the 229 first.

Were I to have a duty weapon, I wouldn't pick anything but a sig, unless the mean department said no no.

[omegaflame]

Double stack 1911 in your favorite caliber?

[Skylerbone]

Fishman, take a look at what's sticking out of every one of those chambers. Now put a cartridge in a revolver and you'll know the definition of "fully supported". You've proven nothing with your argument or your Photoshop pics. Break out a precision mic if it means so much to you to be right and prove me an idiot by measuring .010" more support on brand x.

As for scratches on casings? All my reloads are from other people's throw away brass. That's 1400+ rounds. My 40 has fired exactly 65 rounds of factory ammo in it's life. I've loaded more than a few casings cycled through Glocks without incident and without bulges. (how many rounds were through that factory barrel? The Barstow? Without apples to apples comparisons conclusions mean nothing, check the calipers and fire the same ammo in a controlled comparison). The purpose of a looser chamber is to enhance reliability, always good in a DUTY pistol. Can we get over this already?

BTW to my knowledge Glock has had 2 cases involving KBs that were not attributable to ammo in their 25 or so years of producing pistols. That is a better record than any other in the industry. I do not own, nor do I intend to, any Glock products. I do believe they've gotten a bad rep thanks in no small part to the Internet.

[Skylerbone]

Fishman, take a look at what's sticking out of every one of those chambers. Now put a cartridge in a revolver and you'll know the definition of "fully supported". You've proven nothing with your argument or your Photoshop pics. Break out a precision mic if it means so much to you to be right and prove me an idiot by measuring .010" more support on brand x.

As for scratches on casings? All my reloads are from other people's throw away brass. That's 1400+ rounds. My 40 has fired exactly 65 rounds of factory ammo in it's life. I've loaded more than a few casings cycled through Glocks without incident and without bulges. (how many rounds were through that factory barrel? The Barstow? Without apples to apples comparisons conclusions mean nothing, check the calipers and fire the same ammo in a controlled comparison). The purpose of a looser chamber is to enhance reliability, always good in a DUTY pistol. Can we get over this already?

BTW to my knowledge Glock has had 2 cases involving KBs that were no attributed to ammo in their 25 or so years of producing pistols. That is a better record than any other in the industry. I do not own, nor do I intend to, any Glock products. I do believe they've gotten a bad rep thanks in no small part to the Internet.

[SwampWolf]

There won't be any agencies shooting reloads. Insurance reasons would preclude that.

Mine ( a state agency did). I and the rest of the officers ran thousands of rounds of government supplied reloads through our Smith third generation pistols during our bi-annual qualification courses without incident (that I know of). Bunch of cheap bureaucrats running the show, I guess. :eek:

[Aaron2091]

My vote is for Sig226 tac ops w/4 15rd mags and the magwell shaped grip....thats what I carry and I love it.

[WalkAbout]

Beretta 96D or Beretta 96FS or Beretta Px4.

I like Beretta if you can't tell. ;-)

b

[GMHAYESUSN]

M&P .40 S&W fullsize I know a leo who has been issued 92FS,H&K USP and he is liking this better than both of the previous duty weapons.

[ifit]

cz p07