[Dashunde]

I've seen a few pictures of Glocks that have had a safety installed, but I can not remember where I saw it or who did the work. Anyone know?

I'm kind of surprized that Glock has not yet offered a few models with a factory safety. It seems reasonable, particularly for their CCW models like the 26 and 27 that are not always carried in a standard trigger-guarded holster. I suspect that more than a few are simply carried in a pocket, which is a bit dicey without a real safety.

I'd be the first in line to grab a G30 if it was available with a lever safety.

[Graystar]

I'm kind of surprized that Glock has not yet offered a few models with a factory safety. Actually, all Glocks have three safeties built in from the factory. These safeties are so smart that they automatically engage and disengage right when you want them to!

Talk about a smart gun!

[Sean Smith]

To actually ANSWER THE QUESTION... ;)

http://www.cominolli.com/glocksafety.htm

[9x19]

Another (and much less costly) solution would be the Saf-T-Blok, a small aluminum block that is designed to be a friction fit behind the trigger, and is simply pushed out from right to left when you want to put the pistol into action. One souce is www.topglock.com/catalog/extras.htm

http://www.topglock.com/images/SAFTBLOK.gif

To answer the other concerns:

Pocket holsters do exist, and for those who carry without one, as long as there is nothing else in the pocket, there is nothing to foul the trigger.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Sorry, but I reaaly do not want a trigger block on my CCW. :scrutiny:

This has been discussed before and I think it ended with : How many negligent discharges have occurred from the Glock? Believe me, I was the most skeptical at first. It seems that I should have some mechanical means of safing the firearm. I now have no problems after multiple-mode carries. Relax. :)

[Sunray]

All handguns have a centrally located safety. Right between the ears of the shooter.

[Mgraff]

How odd-

I was just looking at that Cominolli Glock safety... I have a Glock 20 was wondering about having it installed anyone have experience with them? I know it isn't needed but all my other autos are BHP and 1911s so I am used to swiping the safety anyhow. Love to hear from anyone who has had it installed.
BTW Sunray you are 100% right!
Thanks
Mark

[Dashunde]

Thanks for the Cominolli link Sean.

I agree that the best safety is between ones ears, however after growing up with guns and being taught correctly, I still ended up with a hole in my ceiling one night.
I was following ingrained lessons learned early by keeping it pointed in a safe direction no matter what, hence the hole in the ceiling instead of something more important. Regardless...
I had a brain fart... and not a single one of us are beyond or above this type of error, and about the time that you think you are, you will inevitably be reminded - as I was.

[BluesBear]

http://www.cominolli.com/glockblowup.jpg

[jc2]

Pocket holsters do exist, and for those who carry without one, as long as there is nothing else in the pocket, there is nothing to foul the trigger.
Like your hand and fingers--of course, it makes getting a good grip and drawing (particularly in hurry) kind of difficult.I had a brain fart... and not a single one of us are beyond or above this type of error, and about the time that you think you are, you will inevitably be reminded - as I was.
There are two types of gun people: those who have had an accidental discharge, and those who have not had one YET.

Glocks lend themselves to operator error accidental discharges.

[Nightcrawler]

What about Glocks with the 3.5 pound trigger? Would you carry a 1911 with a 3.5 pound trigger with the safety off?

Just a thought. A manual safety on a Glock isn't really necessary, but then, it's not neccessary on a 1911 with a grip safety, either, and yet we have them. *shrug*

I think Gaston is probably very disinclined to modify his pistols much. Might be an ego thing, who knows. I think there's probably a market out there for a Glock with a FRAME MOUNTED manual safety, though.

[9x19]

jc2,

The same old prattle... and just as unsubstantiated as ever. :uhoh:


Nightcrawler,

The 3.5 pound connector in a Glock does not give a 3.5 pound trigger pull.

I can imagine that among Gaston's reasons are: When you are selling everything you can produce, and you are producting at the limits of your capacity, why would you WANT to make changes/add more complexity to your process?

I wouldn't either.... but perhaps I've been in manufacturing too long. :scrutiny:

[Graystar]

Glocks lend themselves to operator error accidental discharges. Why do you say that? Is there some statistic out there that rates the number of NDs per 100,000 guns of a given brand? Is there such a list that will have Glock on top? If that stat exist please share it with us. Otherwise, please don't state personal opinion as fact. It confuses people.

[cornbread2]

For those who do not understand the difference between single and double action the 3.5lb 1911 trigger and the Glock 3.5lb trigger could be the same in their mind.

In the real world the Glock is a DAO and the 1911 is a single action.

A cocked and unlocked 1911 does not have the same trigger pull as a Glock.

[BluesBear]

A Glock is NOT double action only. :banghead: It is semi-cocked or, as Glock calls it, "Safe-Action".

[cornbread2]

You or Glock can call it anything you wish.

The ATF and all the police depts and all the competition rules call it a DAO because the trigger pull serves a double action. It pulls the striker to the rear and releases it. Double action.

[artherd]

More like "Light double action" would be right, because I belive the firing pin is already cocked back halfway and under some tension. Though I belive not enough to actually ignite a round if droped at that point (not possible with the operator controls.)

It's USE is certinly DAO.

And I have to say it's a pretty darn safe design, if carried like a GUN, and not a water pistol.

[9x19]

cornbred2,

Actually...

IDPA notes the distinction between Double Action and Safe Action:

STOCK SERVICE PISTOL division is intended to offer a place in competition for shooters using popular "stock" Double Action/Safe Action factory service pistols such as the Glock, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, Browning and Sig.

[jc2]

Doesn't sound like much of a distinction to me--sounds more like semantics.

[9x19]

I am not the least bit surprised... :rolleyes: "There are none so blind..."

[jc2]

STOCK SERVICE PISTOL division is intended to offer a place in competition for shooters using popular "stock" Double Action/Safe Action factory service pistols such as the Glock, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, Browning and Sig.
OK, then, what is the distinction (other than semantics)? They are lumped together in the same division, aren't they? Sure doesn't sound like much of a distinction, does it?

[Dashunde]

Call the action what you want, DAO or otherwise... But one thing about a Glock is certain, if something gets infront of that trigger and pushes it a bit - its going to fire.

It's not the Glock itself that spooks me, it's the very light and nearly safetyless trigger that bothers me with regard to day to day carry.
A Glock is more like carrying my Para LDA with the safety off, (a big no-no) than it is to a traditional DAO heavy long-travel trigger.

[SnWnMe]

Call the action what you want, DAO or otherwise... But one thing about a Glock is certain, if something gets infront of that trigger and pushes it a bit - its going to fire.

ALL my guns manifest this problem too! ;)

[carpettbaggerr]

Yeah, it's strange. I just checked all my guns and they exhibit the same problem. :neener:

[Cold Steel]

"There are two types of gun people: those who have had an accidental discharge, and those who have not had one YET."
I agree,carry a ccw or duty weapon long enough and you will have a AD or ND if you prefer. The person who keeps their firearms in the safe and shoots once a month or so,may never have it happen. Think of it like having a auto accident,the more time on the road,the higher chance you take. Bad example,but look at the Waco Raid tapes. The Federal Agent who went up on the roof accidently has a AD and puts a round through his leg. Brand of weapon(looks like Glock 17) was not important,but it happened. Now,this is trained officer who probably spent more time on the range and hogan's alley,then most of us combined. Now,if you obey the "rules" it will probably never happen:D
I think a 1911 style safety is a great idea for Glock. In fact,the 1911 safety is the most natural safety for me for me to put in action in a hurry. I'm surprised that other manufactuers have not already picked up on it. It's a lot easier to put in action then a slide mounted safety. And a plus is,if a bad guy gets your weapon away from you,you have a small insurance policy while you get your back-up into action or take other corrective action. I know that most of us will never have to worry about losing a weapon in the heat of action,but if you do,you have a couple of seconds before the bad guy figures out how to go bang. There is a reason that most police officers are required to make sure their vests will stop their duty weapons they carry. In fact,most police officers are shot with their own duty weapons,that a bad guy gets ahold of during a situation. We lost a officer in my state last year,when a mental case got his weapon out of his holster and shot him in the head at point blank range with his own duty weapon. Another reason L.E carry a quality holster is to reduce a chance of losing their weapon. I guess holster's are my pet peeve. I hate to see someone with a $500 ccw pistol stuffed in their pocket or belt.
I think the 1911 safety is a great idea on a Glock. A good thing just got better!! I have always felt kinda funny with a Glock trigger mounted safety. Reminds me of having the brakes of a car mounted on the gas peddle. Or better yet,no brakes and being told to keep your foot off the gas to prevent accidents. A friend of mine used to carry his 1911 locked and cocked,thumb safety off. His argument was the 1911 had several safety devices and leaving the thumb safety off made it faster to get into action. No one is trying to take anyone's pistol away by adding a extra option for it. ;)

[bad_dad_brad]

Glock's one external trigger safety, and two internal safeties, in my opinion, make the Glock one of the safest pistols there are.

Only one thing to remember. If you pull the trigger, it will shoot. What makes that different than a DA revolver? Except that external trigger safety. Read on.

http://www.glock.com/_safe_action_.htm

The standard 5 lb. trigger that comes with most Glocks takes quite a bit of concentrated effort to break. The 8 lb. New York trigger, if you have a paranoia about the standard trigger, takes even more effort.

A Glock's trigger safety, then it's deliberate take up, and hard break, makes it difficult to have an AD, but of course there have been some, as with any firearm. Nothing is perfect.

The only time I came close to an AD was with a Kahr MK9. That smooth trigger almost made me a eunuch once as I stuffed the little sucker in my waistband, just brushing my shirt. That is the difference I think, that little piece of Glock external trigger safety plastic. It works, unless you deliberatly pull it - brushing against it does not have an affect.

Regardless, any pistol or revolver should always be carried, especially pocket carry, in a holster of some kind.

[Zundfolge]

If you really want a Glock with a manual safety, get a Steyr. :)


But I'll be honest, the only time I used the manual safety on my M40 when I carried it was when it was carried in a bellyband.

[355sigfan]

The 26 is too big to be placed in a pocket at least in my pockets. The gun is perfectly safe if you carry it in a holster as you should all guns even pocket guns. Just keep your finger off the trigger until your ready to shoot.
Pat

[jc2]

What makes that different than a DA revolver? Except that external trigger safety.
Let's see: How about additional five or six pounds (or more) of trigger pull? How about a much, much longer trigger pull? How about resistance over the length of the trigger pull instead of just at the breaking point? How about visual "feedback"--you can see the hammer move back and the cylinder rotate. How about tactile "feedback"--you feel the hammer moving or the cylinder rotating? How about aural "feedback"--you can hear the action "clicking?"

Which do you think is the easier to master and (maintain skill with)--the Glock trigger or the DA revolver trigger? Which do you think you can have novice or inexperienced shooter shooting better (faster and more accurately) quicker--the Glock or the DA revolver. There is a huge difference (far more than an external trigger safety) between a Glock and a DA revolver trigger. It's absolutely amazing--when it comes to shootability, the Glock trigger pull is far superior to a DA revolver pull, but when it comes to safety, why, there's no difference at all.

[BluesBear]

Very well put jc2

[c_yeager]

How can anything be called a DAO pistol if you dont have the ability to do a second strike? Anything that has to be "cocked" in order to fire is a single action in my book. The manual of arms is identical to any SA pistol, so why wouldnt it be considered as such?

[jc2]

How can anything be called a DAO pistol if you dont have the ability to do a second strike?
Because the only way to "cock" a Glock is my pulling the trigger. Double action refers to the two actions the trigger performs: one compressing the stiker (or main) spring and two releasing the striker (or main) spring to ignite the primer: two actions--double action. Double action does not necessarily entail a second strike capability. Though a second strike capability is usually found in double action revolvers, it is becomming less and less common in double action only autoloaders.
Anything that has to be "cocked" in order to fire is a single action in my book.
All handguns have to be cocked in order to fire (at least on this planet). The question is how they're cocked. Single actions are cocked manually by pulling the hammer back and/or racking the slide. When you pull the trigger, the tension the striker (or main) spring is released causing the weapon to discharge. Double actions are cocked by pulling the trigger. In the case of DAOs, the only way to cock them is to pull the trigger--that is how a Glock operates.
The manual of arms is identical to any SA pistol, so why wouldnt it be considered as such?
Not hardly! The manual arms for most single actions include applying a manual safety (usually thumb operated) and/or decocking. There is no manual safety on the Glock to apply, and it cannot be decocked because it is not cocked.

[BluesBear]

The Glock, the S&W Sigma and all similar pistols are NEITHER Single-Action or Double Action Only.

A double action mechanism does both cocking and firing.

A safe-action pistol is "pre-cocked". The cycling of the slide partially cocks the striker, while pulling the trigger completes the cocking and then fires.
This is the reason that a safe-action pistol has a lighter trigger pull than a DAO.

Perhaps you'd prefer calling it a 1½ action pistol?

[cornbread2]

JC

I useally do not agree with some of your opinions of the Glock but you do understand their trigger group.

You have my respect for that.

[jc2]

A safe-action pistol is "pre-cocked". The cycling of the slide partially cocks the striker, while pulling the trigger completes the cocking and then fires.
Not exactly. They are not "pre-cocked." The cycling of the slides "sets" striker which is a long, long way from "pre-cocked," and no where near enough energy is stored at that point to ignite primer, and even though the Glock "Instructions for Use" describe it as "half-cock," it is still a long way from being even "half-cocked." The "Instructions for Use" also describe it as being "under partial tension" which is a far more accurate and technically correct description.

There is a good reason cycling action "sets" the striker, and it goes back to how the Glock works. The striker spring actually pushing the striker out of the breech face (in a hammer fired weapon, the firing pin spring does the opposite holding the firing back from the breech face). If the striker did not "set," the design of the pistol would leave the striker protruding from the breech face leading to an open bolt full auto weapon.
This is the reason that a safe-action pistol has a lighter trigger pull than a DAO.
No, the Glock is DAO--pulling the trigger compresses the striker spring and releases the striker to ignite the primer. The primary reason striker fired pistols have a lighter trigger pull is not because the striker is set (the degree of compression of the striker spring when the striker is negligible), but because it is fire easier to compress a striker spring than a main spring--the heavier main spring requires far more effort than the lighter striker spring. In fact, most of the resistance (trigger pull) you feel with a Glock does not come from the striker spring but the geometry of the connector and the trigger spring. That is why it is no easy to adjust the Glock's trigger pull while the only way to reduce a trigger pull on a hammer fired weapon is through judicious polishing and a lighter main spring. Basically, the difference between the trigger pull in the striker fired Glock and a hammer-fired action is not because the striker is set, but because you are compressing a much lighter striker spring not a mainspring--the double action function of the trigger remains constant, but the springs that are being compressed have changed.

[9x19]

cornbread,

It took several posters, over several years, and two different forums, but jc did finally get the mechanics mostly correct. :p

He does still have problems with semantics, it seems, and still imposes his own limits on "action" definitions, evidenced by his preference for incorrectly classifying the Glock as DAO, while the manufacturer correctly distinguishes it from those by calling it something different: "Safe Action".

Perhaps in another few years... :evil:

BTW, the Glock's slide moving rearward is what resets the action, as it pushes the connector in to the left, allowing the trigger bar to rise, so that when the slide returns to battery, the stiker tab can catch the trigger bar cross-piece and push the trigger forward AGAINST the tension of the trigger spring. The striker spring is quite strong in the Glock, but its effect on the trigger pull is lessened by the fact that the trigger spring is exerting pressure rearward on the trigger. A heavier trigger spring means a lighter pull, a lighter trigger spring, a heavier pull. The connector's angle where it meets the trigger bar and forces it downward off the striker tab also affects trigger pull weight as well as "let off" feel.

Y'all have fun out there. :D

[cornbread2]

Lets look at three modern striker fired auto pistols.

The XD Springfield. It is a SINGLE ACTION striker fired pistol. With a round in the chamber the striker is COMPLETLY cocked to the rear and held to the rear by the sear. The trigger pull releases the striker allowing it to fall firing the weapon.

The Steyr M series. It is a SINGLE ACTION striker fired pistol. With a round in the chamber the striker is about 98% cocked to the rear. As the sear releases the striker it moves the striker the other 2% or so to the rear much like the trigger pull on a standard AR and releases it firing the weapon.

The Glock is a DOUBLE ACTION. As JC stated the trigger pull does a double duty. It pulls the striker to the rear and then realeses it firing the weapon.

What is so hard to understand about these simple facts.

Calling the Glock a single action because the striker must be resent by hand when the pistol is unloaded is like saying a car does not have power steering because it does not work correctly if the engine is off.

[9x19]

cornbread,

Since you seem to have the same limited set of pigeon holes as jc, I'm sure y'all will get along nicely.

Good night.

[355sigfan]

As a Glock Armorer I will say internally the Glock is a cross between a single and a double action. Taking the internals out of it the trigger feels far more like a single action than a double action.
Pat

[cornbread2]

No we will not get along very well. The fact that the Glock is a DAO is about the only thing JC and I agree on.

[BluesBear]

It would appear that for some, no explanation is required... for others, no explanation will do.

[sgt127]

Cominolli Safety

To answer the original question, I have one installed on my G-23. I like it alot. Being an old 1911 shooter, it feels completely natural and just as fast as a Glock without the manual safety. I am trying to get our dept to approve it as an authorized modification to the issue G-35. It can be loaded and cleared with the safety on. I like the idea of an exposed belt gun having a manual safety if somebody gets it away from you.

I think the Glock as originally designed is a superb killing machine. In a military setting, its ok, even encouraged to kill the enemy. Police and civilians rarely have to shoot people but point their guns at alot more.

I would guess the way the lawyers are circling the gun industry, if Glock offered a manual safety on new guns, the argument would be that all previous Glocks were dangerous because they did not have a safety. Leading to many lawsuits, or Glock would have to offer a retrofit to all exsisting guns.

[jc2]

9x19 -
It took several posters, over several years, and two different forums, but jc did finally get the mechanics mostly correct.
I've had the mechanics correct from day one. You've yet to get the teminlogy correct! :neener:

[coverdog]

There are two types of gun people: those who have had an accidental discharge, and those who have not had one YET.

And where did this statistic come from? Use your head and be safe at all times and it not likely to happen.

[cornbread2]

sgt127

You are correct about the need for a manaul safety on an open carry gun. It HAS saved the lives of a few cops when the bad guys took their pistols.

If I was a uniformed cop that had to carry open I would carry a H&K USP or a good 1911 or possibly a Glock with a manaul safety.

One that has trained enough with a 1911 is not any more likely to forget to wipe the safety off under stress than he is to forget to pull the trigger.

[355sigfan]

There are two types of gun people: those who have had an accidental discharge, and those who have not had one YET.
END

Well first off there are damn few truly accidental discharges. That would mean something other than yourself caused the gun to fire. There are negligent discharges and yes some people slip and dry fire with loaded guns and that kind of thing. But there is no excuse for firing with a loaded gun when you know its loaded when you did not intend to. Keep your finger off the trigger.
Pat

[cornbread2]

There are few ADs because most modern carry guns are very safe. The vast majority of pistols that intelligent thinking people carry are 100% drop safe. They can not fire without a trigger pull.

The exceptions to this rule are some junk guns such as the Jennings, Davis type crap some older style revolvers and the Steyr M series pistols.

It is up to the person carring the gun to be able to know and completly understand it's trigger group and safety systen before they carry it in public.

If one does not have such an ability they do not have any business carring ANY firearm.

[9x19]

jc2,

Revisionist history? :scrutiny:

How droll... :evil: