Russian ak


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berettaman200
August 19, 2010, 07:02 PM
Ok I have seen mostly egyptian and WASR 10 ak's out there. What are the odds of getting a russian ak and at what price? Also a lot of the ak's I have seen have mag wobble due to the lack of the indents on the body of the gun. What models have this?

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XxWINxX94
August 19, 2010, 07:17 PM
If you look at Saiga brand, the recievers are made at Izhmash (Excuse my spelling), but anything not built here will have to be 922r compliant in order to enter the country, resulting in I believe 6 US parts.

An example of that would be my WASR-10 variant. It has the G2 Trigger, Tapco Pistol grip, and a Tapco mag, all made in USA the other # of parts are somewhere on the inside. Otherwise the rest of the gun is from Romania.

Its a stupid law, made by people who know nothing about guns, yet the people who do have to comply.

Storm
August 19, 2010, 07:19 PM
Easy peasy. Saigas are made where the real McCoy are made at IZHMASH. Get a Saiga and convert it from sporter to original configuration or look at Arsenal.

nalioth
August 19, 2010, 10:31 PM
Also a lot of the ak's I have seen have mag wobble due to the lack of the indents on the body of the gun. What models have this?All Kalashnikovs have mag wobble.

Every last one of them.

Dimples in the receiver or internal plates serve the same purpose - strengthening the steel in that area. Dimples (or plates) have nothing to do with magazine stability. It's the mag well that does (and the dimensions of any particular magazine).

Z-Michigan
August 19, 2010, 10:37 PM
Yes, get a Saiga. Either a sporter and convert it yourself, or an Arsenal SGL-21, whichever floats your fancy. Either way you end up with a great Russian AKM, with most of the important parts made by Izhmash at the AK's ancestral home, for not too much $$$ considering what you're getting.

zhyla
August 19, 2010, 11:56 PM
but anything not built here will have to be 922r compliant in order to enter the country, resulting in I believe 6 US parts.

No, Saigas are imported in a "sporting" configuration, exempting them from 922r requirements. If you "convert" them from this configuration, then you've got 922r to deal with. Of course, 922r is completely unenforceable, so keep that in mind when swapping out perfectly good Russian parts for identical USA parts.

Girodin
August 20, 2010, 01:35 AM
Of course, 922r is completely unenforceable, so keep that in mind when swapping out perfectly good Russian parts for identical USA parts.

I'm not sure why you would say that. It might be the type of law that is rarely enforced, i.e. no one seems to be out actively looking for violations but it is not unenforceable. It is the type of thing that if attention is called to you or your gun it wouldn't be too hard to check for compliance and tack on a charge. Also the fact that it is not currently being actively enforced is no guarantee that it wont be tomorrow, next week or next year. I was only able to find one case via searching lexis nexis of a conviction for a 922r violation. The fact that there is a conviction ought to tell you that it is not "completely unenforceable".

If you have the feds bring a charge against you it will suck, big time. The legal fees will be in the tens of thousands if you try to fight it. The US attorney's office has a conviction rate that is higher than 90% and the vast, vast majority of those result in sentences of active prison terms. Felons face serious consequences in the wake of a conviction including loss of the right to posses firearms. Keep that in mind when you try to save $20 or even $200 dollars hanging on to your perfectly good Russian parts.

A lot of Federal firearm laws are stupid but what is really stupid is knowingly violating them when compliance is so easy and inexpensive particularly when weighed against the potential costs of non compliance.

RuAk
August 20, 2010, 03:39 AM
You might find a Russian ak parts kits but they are in very used condition and do not come with the original receiver.

I agree with my posts here. Get a Saiga already converted. Arsenal SGL-21 model or Atalantic Firearms has a very fine converted Saiga with high quality furniture and looks identical to a Russian AK. BTW they say Made in Russia on them.

caribou
August 20, 2010, 03:49 AM
If your gonna convert the Saiga, you need 14 parts anyway, so why not get made in the U.S.A.?
Every pin, spring, screw ect. counts.

Sam1911
August 20, 2010, 07:03 AM
If your gonna convert the Saiga, you need 14 parts anyway, so why not get made in the U.S.A.?
What? If you convert a Saiga, you need to provide four US parts (five if you thread the muzzle and install a break).

You get three of them just by installing the ususal G2 trigger group. Add a US made stock, or a US gas piston and you're there.

Every pin, spring, screw ect. counts. No, that's not true, even a little.

Only a very specific list of parts count.

Look at this for a very clear explanation: http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

caribou
August 20, 2010, 07:32 AM
Thanks for the correction, seems I was misunderstanding. I was sure it was 10 parts, and I used 14 to correct the Saiga and fix'd the feed ramp with my "Homemade in the USA" feed ramp.
Uses Galil mags now witout a hitch.~LOL!~

Sam1911
August 20, 2010, 07:52 AM
It is "no more than 10 foreign parts." Not "must have 10 US parts." A much easier standard to adhere to! :)

Yes, you may want to install a bullet guide, or any number of other things, but they don't count for or against the parts count.

hank327
August 20, 2010, 10:13 AM
The Arsenal converted Saiga SGL-21 or SGL-20 is what you are looking for. All Russian construction except for the muzzle brake, trigger group, gas piston and furniture which is US made to comply with the law. All the good stuff, the barrel, receiver, bolt and bolt carrier and so on is of 100% Russian manufacture from the same plant that makes Russia's military AKs. That's the way to go unless you are looking for a do it yourself project to convert a sporter version of a Saiga back to military trim.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=353

zhyla
August 20, 2010, 10:26 AM
It is the type of thing that if attention is called to you or your gun it wouldn't be too hard to check for compliance and tack on a charge.

Really? How would they prove the origin of each of the parts? The burden of proof is on them. This is a very difficult thing. This is what makes it unenforceable.

Girodin
August 20, 2010, 10:54 AM
Really? How would they prove the origin of each of the parts? The burden of proof is on them. This is a very difficult thing. This is what makes it unenforceable.

Again, there is a case on the books of them convicting some one. So to say it is unenforceable is empirically untrue.


How would they prove the origin of each of the parts

A bunch of them are very easy. The rest are not nearly as hard as you think. Receiver look at the import markings. Barrel is another fairly easy one as it will have some factory markings and characteristics of every other factory barrel as well as zero evidence that you have changed it. If you leave any of the factory furniture it is pretty easy to identify as well. Besides showing a jury a picture of a factory gun and making the obvious comparison, I suppose they could call expert witnesses as well as RRA or even Izmash employees to identify those products as made in good old Russia.

Again expert witnesses could establish where magazines and similar parts are from based on the characteristics of each countries (or even manufactures mags). There are only so many US made versions of such parts and so many foreign ones. Which is yours.

Certain OME FCG parts are readily identifiable. How many manufactures of US made FCG parts are there? Are they unique in any way? For example does it have a G2 stamp or USA or RSA stamp. If it doesn't have any of the markings or identifiers of the only US made parts then will a jury believe it is a US made part?

If I was investigating it I would pull your credit card records to see where you bought parts. From there tracking down where they came from wouldn't be that hard.

Further, as the authorities are making their case on all these things what is important in trials is what a jury will believe. If you have an expert witness saying part A or B is clearly a surplus part from Romania and you have no evidence that you bought it from Tapco (i.e. your's doesn't have tapco or USA or other markings that all the Tapco one's have) who is more credible and who is a jury going to believe.

Lastly, I'm sure they would love to be able to find internet postings of the person expressing their intent to violate the law.

migkillertwo
August 20, 2010, 01:17 PM
Arsenal SGL-21-61s can be found easily. Aimsurplus has them often, and K-var always sells them.

berettaman200
August 20, 2010, 04:27 PM
unfortunately k-var wont ship to NY.

nalioth
August 20, 2010, 04:32 PM
unfortunately k-var wont ship to NY.Which is good luck for you.

You can buy a standard Saiga, convert it yourself, and spend all the money you'll save on more ammo.

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