An alternative to the Anti-Gun GOOGLE!


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George Hill
December 22, 2002, 07:15 PM
I have found a search engine that is everybit as good as or even better than Google.com.
I've done some test searches and I am liking the results better than google's.
As to politics, I don't know. At least it's not Google.
It's called WISENUT.com

Try it.

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Mike Irwin
December 22, 2002, 08:27 PM
Try webferret.com

George Hill
December 22, 2002, 09:14 PM
Thanks for linking me to popup hell. After closing 4 popups, one of them crashed my Explorer. Ick. I'll stick with Wisenut.

Mike Irwin
December 22, 2002, 09:21 PM
Forgot about that. I run a popup killer in the background at all times...

On my brother's network, popups die at the source.

George Hill
December 22, 2002, 09:43 PM
Popups...
Ugh. They are just as vomitous as spam. Wisenut seems to be the better search engine.
Also, I just found that they refresh the database with new content much more often than Google, making it much more timely and accurate. Meaning less search hits on sites no longer there.

PvtPyle
December 22, 2002, 09:50 PM
Do a search for "analog x", a great popup killer.

George Hill
December 22, 2002, 09:58 PM
http://www.analogx.com/contents/download.htm

Indeed... he has some great stuff. Some highly recommended tools.

larryw
December 22, 2002, 11:15 PM
Try PopUp Stopper from http://www.panicware.com

You don't need to add windows to kill to a list.

TheeBadOne
December 22, 2002, 11:37 PM
www.alltheweb.com is useful too.

bedlamite
December 22, 2002, 11:44 PM
You should give Copernic Agent a try. It's a standalone program that searches several engines simultaneously, and you can choose which ones, including wisenut. It does have a banner on the free version, but it's worth it.

http://www.copernic.com/index.html

twoblink
December 22, 2002, 11:48 PM
http://www.dogpile.com

Google doesn't even return decent searches anymore. I'm a dogpile fan. It's a meta search, so it's a mix of all the different searches at the same time.

Skunkabilly
December 23, 2002, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by Mike Irwin
Try webferret.com

It's illegal in California :D

johnr
December 24, 2002, 01:49 PM
OK, let's try a link:

http://www.wisenut.com

Blackhawk
December 24, 2002, 02:10 PM
Skunk,

Why is webferret illegal in the PRK (not that it's any surpirse that anything is illegal there)?

Any references?

deputy tom
December 24, 2002, 02:31 PM
I'm a dogpile fan too!tom.

http://www.dogpile.com

Dave Markowitz
December 24, 2002, 02:40 PM
I fyou hate popups, try using Mozilla, the open-source version of Netscape. I use it on Windows and Linux. Aside from the ability to block popups, you can also block images from specific servers, so you don't have to download banner ads, for example.

http://www.mozilla.org

Gewehr98
December 24, 2002, 02:48 PM
How do I set it up to kill popups? :confused:

Bruce H
December 24, 2002, 03:07 PM
www.Teoma.com. This works very well for me.

Blackhawk
December 24, 2002, 03:22 PM
I use InfoCaesar's PowerSearch. It's a meta searcher that's very efficient in dumping the extraneous and irrelevant. www.infocaesar.com

gun-fucious
December 24, 2002, 03:35 PM
Google vs. Evil
The world's biggest, best-loved search engine owes its success to a simple rule: Don't be evil. Now the geek icon is finding that moral compromise is just the cost of doing big business.


http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.01/google.html

Drizzt
December 24, 2002, 04:53 PM
you got pop-ups on webferret? I haven't had any problems with it, and it and copernicus are really the only ones I use lately.

Zundfolge
December 24, 2002, 05:37 PM
The coolest search engine out there has to be http://www.kartoo.com/

once you figure out the interface that is :p

Blackhawk
December 24, 2002, 05:55 PM
Drizzt, glad you made it! I get half my information from articles you post! :D

762x51
December 24, 2002, 05:59 PM
This is by far the best popup killer i've used to date.

http://www.emsproject.com/FS

Free Surfer MKII

Oracle
December 24, 2002, 06:35 PM
Blackhawk,

I think Skunk was being funny, referring to how it is illegal to own ferrets in California.

mons meg
December 24, 2002, 06:40 PM
To kill popups under Mozilla:

Under Edit-> Preferences, open the Advanced branch, then select Scripts and Plugins. Then, unselect most if not all of these Javascript options, particularly "open unrequested windows".

n.b. this may kill some functionality at some fancy schmancy websites.

First post on new board....wheee

Hawk
December 24, 2002, 10:04 PM
The Opera browser lets you kill pop-ups or turn them into "pop unders". I think its available for most OS's. Good privacy features, faster than blazes, lots of handy keyboard and mouse "gesture" shortcuts. "Skinnable" and "buttonable" too.

Caveat: "free" version uses a banner ad - I paid to lose it.

Anybody else here running Opera?

dd-b
December 24, 2002, 11:02 PM
Anybody else here running Opera?

Yep. Registered user of 6, using beta of 7 at the moment (mostly windows, though I also run 6 on Linux). I like the keyboard shortcuts, and the search window in the address bar, and the standards compliance, and the easy ability to override site styles and popups and on and on. Yep.

dd-b
December 24, 2002, 11:05 PM
An alternative to the Anti-Gun GOOGLE!

So in what ways is Google anti-gun? I find gun stuff through them all the time -- which may actually be the best way to get the message across to them.

I'd guess they don't take paid gun ads as one item on your complaint list; is that right? What else?

2nd Amendment
December 24, 2002, 11:09 PM
Ferrets are illegal in **********?? What's with that bit of stupidity? Oh, and on the subject of popup-killers, there is one out there called NoPop. Avoid it like the plague. it's a popup-killer version of Banzai Buddy and Gator. It gets into everything and makes you insane!

Blackcloud6
December 24, 2002, 11:37 PM
How is Google anti-gun?

Zundfolge
December 25, 2002, 12:16 AM
How is Google anti-gun?

Google makes it money by selling advertising space and selling the top spots in each search (you can figure that most of the web sites that show up on the first page or two when you do a search pay for those slots).

They refuse to sell ad space to anyone doing business remotely related to firearms.

charlie d
December 25, 2002, 12:24 AM
How about these?

Google search for winchester (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=winchester&num=10&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=images). First three hits are winchester guns or ammo. Sponsored link is "Winchester on ebay (gun related).

Same with Remington. Even a search under "marlin" gives firearms first; could have been the fish.

I'll stay with them.

JeFF D
December 25, 2002, 12:29 AM
I use "Pop-Up Stopper Pro" for killing pop-ups no complaints here I really like it.

dd-b
December 25, 2002, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by Zundfolge
Google makes it money by selling advertising space and selling the top spots in each search (you can figure that most of the web sites that show up on the first page or two when you do a search pay for those slots).

They refuse to sell ad space to anyone doing business remotely related to firearms.

The middle part of this is definitely not true. Google will not sell search placement under any circumstances, and say so quite openly. The sell "premium sponsorships" and "adwords", but neither of these look like results, and are carefully prevented from mimicing results. (Specific statement about not selling results ranking is at http://www.google.com/technology/index.html).

The last bit, refusing to sell ad space, I believe is probably right (my firearms searches don't have relevant ads displayed next to them that I can recall), but do you have a place where they state that as policy?

Triad
December 25, 2002, 01:45 AM
chatlie d, those are not ads for gun companies, those are adds for ebay.

Results of Google search on Sony (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_qdr=all&q=sony&btnG=Google+Search) notice you see the ads on the right? Google won't accept those from gunnies.

Triad
December 25, 2002, 01:49 AM
dd-b, does it matter if it's a part of their written policy? The fact that they won't accept them, but don't have the fortitude to admit it speaks volumes about their character.

charlie d
December 25, 2002, 05:58 AM
Hi Triad,

I was responding to Zundfolge's post in which he said:

"They refuse to sell ad space to anyone doing business remotely related to firearms."

Triad
December 25, 2002, 06:34 AM
Ah, I see. Zundfolge does have a point though. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Google hadn't pulled ads placed by a company that didn't sell guns, but sold related items.

dd-b
December 25, 2002, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Triad
dd-b, does it matter if it's a part of their written policy? The fact that they won't accept them, but don't have the fortitude to admit it speaks volumes about their character.

Yes, it matters whether it's part of their public policy, precisely for the reason you give in your next sentence.

Although "character" isn't the attribute of theirs I would impugn with this decision. Actually, it's a sign of their strong character that they're willing to stand up to the extremely noisy pressure the firearms lobby tends to bring to bear on people like that. Strength of character does not correlate well with agreement on values!

Seriously, it's rhetorically much better if you can point to formal policy against firearms ads, if it's there. If it's not there, you make do with what you can of course.

Here's their guideline page on acceptable ad content https://adwords.google.com/select/guidelines.html, and it doesn't say anything about acceptable and unacceptable types of business. It does talk about accepting sexually-explicit ads (and not displaying them to people with "safe search" set).

Is it possible that people simply haven't taken out such ads with Google? Has anybody tried to place an ad and been refused? It'd be tragic to get them pissed off at the gun community if it turns out they've done nothing against us. We could turn them against us by spreading a false rumor.

Would somebody from the staff like to try buying some keywords on google and see what happens? If they're blocked the experiment will cost nothing, and if they're just unsold then the experiment can be pretty cheap. Although I'm unemployed at the moment, I'd be willing to make the experiment myself if I had permission. (buy keywords pointing to this forum).

dd-b
December 25, 2002, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Triad
Ah, I see. Zundfolge does have a point though. We wouldn't be having this discussion if Google hadn't pulled ads placed by a company that didn't sell guns, but sold related items.

Am I watching the evolution of an urban legend, or is there being information exchanged on the topic outside this thread? Your message is the first one in the thread that mentions adds being "pulled". You treat it as an assumed part of the background, but it hasn't been mentioned before.

Is it true? How do we know it is true?

I'm not so much trying to defend Google as I'm trying to get the facts of this case nailed down conclusively. If we're going to make a fuss at Google, which would be appropriate if they have anti-firearms policies, we ought to have good reasons for believing that they're anti-firearms. The relative absence of paid ads for firearms is suggestive, but is not by itself conclusive.

dd-b
December 25, 2002, 12:26 PM
I've gone as far as picking keywords and creating an ad. Their advice tool clearly understands that gun terms are associated with guns, and was happy to advise me on terms to buy. I'm stopping short of clicking the actual "sign me up" button -- I'm not authorized to buy ads for thehighroad.org, and I don't have my own firearms web pages to advertise.

This is by no means conslusive yet of course, but if *I* were going to block certain kinds of business, *I* would block buying the keywords.

One thing in their agreement is that the product advertised has to be legal in the location where the ad is displayed (you pick at the country level). This may discourage some of the gun ads, since local laws are so varied. This would affect advertising THR, since *discussing* firearms is legal throughout the US.

Triad
December 25, 2002, 01:45 PM
dd-b, try these.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=136568&highlight=google http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=125550&highlight=google http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=123399&highlight=google

garrettwc
December 25, 2002, 09:13 PM
Wow the forum is open less than two days and I already have a new Mozilla tip. Thanks mons meg.

I'll also second the vote for Copernic. It can be real handy for finding obscure info.

veloce851
December 25, 2002, 10:10 PM
I'm still a Teoma fan www.teoma.com

Calamity Jane
December 25, 2002, 10:14 PM
George, thanks for recommending WiseNut. I've used it several times already and like what I see very much. :)

garrettwc
December 25, 2002, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Calamity Jane
George, thanks for recommending WiseNut. I've used it several times already and like what I see very much. :)

I just tried it myself. Quick response on searches. Got 120 hits on "Oleg Volk". They even have an Oleg category, sort of like Northern Light breaks theirs into subheadings.

Chugach
December 25, 2002, 10:44 PM
gun-fucious, that's a good article on Google. Helps me understand the controversy they stir here. First, and from other posts here Second Amendment rights issues for sure.

Will be interesting to see how their stance changes if/when they go public. Hard to understand what part is altruism, what part is pre-positioning for an IPO.

Raises enough doubt with me that I'll be looking at alternatives.

dd-b
December 26, 2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Triad
dd-b, try these.


Thanks, I read the three TFL threads you pointed me to. That gives at least two definite cases of gun ads being bounced, which seems pretty clear. (I still want to see *which* policy they violate). I've also emailed them asking what their policy is, presumably I'll get about the same message back.

Queries they can't sell ads on are not the nicest thing one can do to google, so I'm not sure drastic responses are really necessary. But the fact that they are turning down ads from legal (in fact, federally licensed often!) businesses is very interesting.

duck hunt
December 27, 2002, 12:54 PM
A search for my name (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22anne+thomas+soffee%22) on Google gets me 28,200 hits. The same search (http://www.wisenut.com/search/query.dll?q=%22anne+thomas+soffee%22) on Wisenut gets me three. IMHO the choice is obvious.

If you enjoyed reading about "An alternative to the Anti-Gun GOOGLE!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!