Most Reliable 1911


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sprice
August 24, 2010, 01:56 AM
What's the most reliable 1911 with the best metalurgy out of these brands and price range? And even if you don't like the external extractors on the smiths or the front serrations of kimbers or how some brands arn't the "original" please keep it to yourself and I don't necessarily care about fit and finish either. Just reliabilty and internal quality. :) thanks in advance and pictures/stories of personal experience are always nice.

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Full Metal Jacket
August 24, 2010, 02:00 AM
my champion operator has never jammed. it's actually been more reliable than my glock 19 ( :eek: )


http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/champop1911/Pic009-1.jpg


my EMP40 has never jammed either (lower round count though):

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/champop1911/Pic4145011.jpg

MICHAEL T
August 24, 2010, 02:15 AM
Colt most MIM free of the list and the original .

Oceans
August 24, 2010, 02:15 AM
My Colt 1991A1, feeds empty cases from the magazine.

killchain
August 24, 2010, 03:24 AM
Who voted Kimber?!

EDIT: Joke. :P I don't expect you to tell us. :)

9mmepiphany
August 24, 2010, 05:06 AM
My S&W 1911Sc has been running fine since I brought it home...but i only have a couple of thousand rounds through it. I like the way they are fitted better than comparably priced models in the other lines
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/9mmepiphany/DSC_0850.jpg

At the mid-priced range, my Springfield EMP has been surprisingly well fitted
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/9mmepiphany/DSC_1644.jpg

Jed Carter
August 24, 2010, 05:37 AM
You won't find many detractors for Colt, Springfield Armory or Smith & Wesson. I have experience with all 4 brands and have not had any malfunctions with any that were not magazine related. Perhaps your next thread should be what magazines work best with "Your " pistol.

omegaflame
August 24, 2010, 06:01 AM
Who voted Kimber?!

EDIT: Joke. :P I don't expect you to tell us. I did, I only have a Kimber 1911 and it's never FTE/FTFed yet. So I voted for statistics. :V

Yes I know many people have issues.

gwnorth
August 24, 2010, 08:37 AM
Highly biased? I don't know since all any if us can speak from is our own experience, which means these kinds of polls are inherently biased. My two colts - 2009 1991A1 stainless combat commander and a 1990's stainless series 80 MkIV gov't - have been trouble free.

Then again,the LNIB used Taurus PT1911 (also stainless) I had for a year and some 2k-2.5k rounds was also a trouble free pistol. So what do I know...?

Walkalong
August 24, 2010, 09:04 AM
I have all four brands. They all run like tops. They all make good ones and an occasional bad one. :)

schmeky
August 24, 2010, 02:20 PM
^^^^^^ what Walkalong said.

People have sent their Wilson's, Nighthawks, and Ed Browns back for tuning. A whole bunch of Rock Island Armory guns run like a champ out of the box.

I think an unreliable 1911 is the exception, not the rule.

My Norinco is stone cold reliable, as is my Kimber, as is my Les Baer, an example of low-end, mid-range, and upper tier 1911's. The pic is of my "cheap" Norinco.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j235/schmeky/HPIM0376.jpg

Cards81fan
August 24, 2010, 02:27 PM
I voted Springfield (even though I own a Colt), as the MilSpec I have experience with was 100% Reliable. Smith has an external extractor, but they seem to work fine. Kimber? No problems personally but they sure seem to have their detractors.

My Colt Series 70 will occasionally hand up if hand cycling ball ammo through, wedging themselves on extraction. Shoots fine though. I think the scalloped/flared ejection port is nice to have as extra insurance.

mljdeckard
August 24, 2010, 04:30 PM
All I can say is what I have experienced. My Kimber is the best handgun I have ever owned. My total malfunctions have been so few I can't even recall them.

I have owned 1911s from Auto-Ordnance, Para-Ordnance, Springfield Armory, and I have shot many others. I had a Colt 1991, and it was good, I don't recall any problems with it, but I don't remember it being as easy to shoot as the Kimber either. I didn't have it very long, I might not have properly broken in the trigger setup.

CoRoMo
August 24, 2010, 04:45 PM
Colt most MIM free of the list...
Does that include the very top of Kimber's and Springfield's custom work?

9mmepiphany
August 24, 2010, 05:01 PM
Highly biased? I don't know since all any if us can speak from is our own experience, which means these kinds of polls are inherently biased.
This is true and it is on a reader, looking for information, to sort the recommendations between folks who only have experience with one model from those who have had experience with all the models being asked about.

I have always personally been reluctant to offer an opinion unless I have had experience with all the manufacturers being asked about, because I wouldn't feel that I have a basis for a valid comparison. There is nothing wrong with relating your positive experience with a platform, but you should be aware that it has limited value for comparison

possum
August 24, 2010, 05:32 PM
the only 1911 brand that i have seen not fail or have serious issues in the training courses that i have been too is a Nighthawk. Yes even kimbers, wilsons etc have had issues.

mljdeckard
August 24, 2010, 05:38 PM
I had a Nighthawk jam at a rental range. All machines fail eventually.

possum
August 24, 2010, 05:45 PM
I had a Nighthawk jam at a rental range. All machines fail eventually.
that is true, and i totally agree, something you also have to think about is the fact that rental guns are shot alot, and how often are they cleaned and or taken care of? the 1911 is the ferrari(sp) of the handgun world, but you have to take care of them, that is why i drive a hondad accord(of the gun world).

rtpzwms
August 24, 2010, 06:34 PM
I was looking for option E. not repaired by owner.

I have seen a few that were "fixed" I even took one as partial payment on a deal...(really bad idea that worked out OK). Lets just say it was so unsafe to use that I worried about handling it. The slide would go to full battery just by laying it down softly. It scared me to load it. Now its my 1911 in 22 cal. That fixed 99% of the problems. Now all I have to do is find the new trigger hardware that I want to use to replace the current trigger.

I know that many here do work on there own arms and many are good. I am not talking about you. I'm speaking of the ones that have not done the research and learning before fixing there arms. And by doing it have created unsafe weapons.

gwnorth
August 24, 2010, 06:46 PM
This is true and it is on a reader, looking for information, to sort the recommendations between folks who only have experience with one model from those who have had experience with all the models being asked about.

I have always personally been reluctant to offer an opinion unless I have had experience with all the manufacturers being asked about, because I wouldn't feel that I have a basis for a valid comparison. There is nothing wrong with relating your positive experience with a platform, but you should be aware that it has limited value for comparison
Actually, my peeve with requests for "unbiased info", or "facts only please, no opinions" is that on a forum like this, one can only get information for an extremely small sample. Even if someone has owned one or several of each of the makes and models in the poll, that still represents a minute fraction of the guns produced in each group.

Questions about reliability, durability, life expectancy need large representative samples. It's like basing a decision solely on these ridiculous, gimmicks of marketing all over youtube - the one-off "torture test". So one gun out of tens of thousands produced had a great day at the range? All it tells you is that one individual gun had at least one good day.

Similarly, someone comes here and says (as I do, since I cannot offer anything else), "I've owned one of brand X, and it's worked fine". That really is not terribly informative about a long running make or model.

It just seems to me somewhat disturbing how some people seem to come to forums like this and treat this information like some kind of rigorous, scientific information. People need to understand what is stated here is direct personal experience (useful, yes, definitive, no) and opinion of a very limited sampling by any one poster.

It's just something I seem to see more and more, and yes, in younger people mainly who have grown up never knowing a time without internet. The reality is that as wonderful as the internet is, 97.693% of the information it has is worthless (which makes this post worth exactly the price of admission :D )

Kingofthehill
August 24, 2010, 07:12 PM
KIMBER!???? LOL


ok.....

Colt, and Springfield followed closely by S&W

I own or have owned at least 2 of each brand. My colt gold cup and delta were perfect, all the springers were perfect although 1 loaded model had a gritty trigger i knew should of been better for a stock gun and sent it back no problem, S&W 1911pd that just need the extractor fine tuned.

ive owned 6 kimbers, own 3 now... the 3 others were crap and kimber CS was no help. I'll never buy another kimber

Zerodefect
August 24, 2010, 07:58 PM
I've succesfully fixed a few Kimbers right up. Not a bad slide/frame at all. And I actually like the external extractor.:p

Recoil spring, mags, and a little polish works nearly every time for the ones that FTF or FTRTB.

I like Dan Wesson, Fusion and Wilsons (without the Wilson Billboard).

sprice
August 24, 2010, 08:09 PM
Goodie. What would be best if a gunsmith were to slightly tune it?

Full Metal Jacket
August 24, 2010, 08:13 PM
I had a Nighthawk jam at a rental range. All machines fail eventually.

nighthawks are notorious for extremely poor QC. i've seen nighthawk pics on 1911 that were so bad, i've never seen a $500 1911 look like that, let alone a $3,000 one :eek: (not to mention reports of parts like extractors and slide stops breaking on them).

i've looked at them at gunshops, and have never been impressed with the fit.

wtfd661
August 24, 2010, 08:31 PM
Never had a problem with any of my 3 Kimbers. Zero issues from day one for all of them, not sure how much more reliable you can get.

gwnorth
August 24, 2010, 08:40 PM
Goodie. What would be best if a gunsmith were to slightly tune it?
I don't think the actual make would matter much, in the hands of a good gunsmith. As long as the pistol in question was a reasonably good made brand (decent steel, or alloy, proper heat treatment and well fitted parts, etc), any knowledgeable gunsmith can tweak it however you want them to.

That's one of the reasons for the 1911's popularity. Unless the manufacturer deviates wildly from the basic design specifications, a good gunsmith can take 3rd party parts and fit them into a gun, or modify the existing parts to mesh better if needed. Brand name doesn't matter, as long as it is reasonably true to the 1911 design specs.

Some things may impinge on that a bit - Kimber uses a Swartz type firing pin block, different from the series 80 Colt style, for example. I suppose it would be best not to take a Kimber to someone with no experience with that type of safety, but honestly, if the gunsmith knows his/her stuff, it should not matter.

schmeky
August 24, 2010, 08:59 PM
Something to ponder - all autos are at the mercy of the ammo manufacturers. You can't make millions/billions of rounds and not have a percentage of out of spec cartridges. For instance Amerc brass will not feed in any of my 45's, be a 1911 or non-1911.

Lastly, many people do not know you match the mag to the ammo, and there must be 10 zillion 1911 mags out there. Also, there are folks still trying to improve on the 1911 magazine after 100 years. Mags can range from outstanding to belongs in a hefty bag.

Take a perfect 1911 and throw in a crap mag and some out of spec ammo and well, you know . . . . . . . . . . . . .

CHEVELLE427
August 24, 2010, 09:10 PM
i had to say SF1911-A1 as it was the first one i picked up in 1983 and was the only one till the PT1911 came home with me one day, so far no trouble out of either one.

cyclopsshooter
August 24, 2010, 09:15 PM
The slide would go to full battery just by laying it down softly

also crappy mag issue

mag follower was not lifting the slide stop up far enough for positive engagement

AK103K
August 24, 2010, 09:29 PM
I've owned multiple copies of Colt, Springfield, and Kimber, as well as a number of others. The only 1911's I ever trusted to carry, or for anything serious, were the Colts.

I wont ever own another Springfield or Kimber.

I think an unreliable 1911 is the exception, not the rule.
I've had a boatload of exceptions. Out of around 40 guns over the years, right around 30% were OK (Colts, GI guns, a couple of very early Springfields, and a couple of Caspian home builds) the rest had some sort of problem, from minor but annoying, to not feeding hardball out of the box, and beyond aggravating.


nighthawks are notorious for extremely poor QC.
Is this something new? My buddy has two, a .45 and 9mm, both of which I shot the day he got them, and quite a few times since, and they have performed flawlessly, and are very accurate. They both feel almost hydraulic when cycled by hand, and the .45 actually binds up sometimes when you try to disassemble it, but shoot it, and it runs like a top.

I always bitch at him for what he spent on them ($2500/ea.), but so far, they are the only one's I've seen in a very long time, that actually worked 100% right out of the box (and they had better for $2500!), and without any kind of fiddling. My Colts were really the only other ones I've seen do the same.

sprice
August 24, 2010, 09:46 PM
What kind of colts do you have?

Full Metal Jacket
August 24, 2010, 10:17 PM
Is this something new?

no. since ron phillips left them years ago to go on his own, their QC has been in the toilet. of course, they're not all bad, but why risk plunking down over 3 grand when you can't be confident in what will show up, as most are bought sight unseen.


this guy paid $2,600 for this NHC talon, and this is what arrived (2007):

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p185/TheSavageRabbit/IMG_2921.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p185/TheSavageRabbit/IMG_2933.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p185/TheSavageRabbit/IMG_2932.jpg


have you ever seen a $500 1911 leave the factory like that? :eek:

Jim K
August 24, 2010, 10:40 PM
Hmmm. I know a fellow who spent some time carrying a .45 for serious purposes, not fun. He was part of a U.S. team guarding President Kharzai in Afghanistan, and he thought that an M1911A1 was just fine. As for brand, it was "none of the above" and not a shiny new, stainless this and that; it was a Remington-Rand, made in 1943.

Jim

akadave
August 25, 2010, 03:27 AM
I have had only 3 Springfield 1911's. One was a Limited Edition Commander about 15 years ago. It had an aluminum frame which cracked at the dustcover after about 500 rounds and when I sent it in they replaced the frame with a blued steel one. Then the ejector was throwing hot brass into my forehead. I had that fixed then promptly got rid of the gun.

Then I picked up a Springfield 6 inch long slide stainless in 45 mag. I only shot 45 ACP in it but it began to gall where the slide and frame met.

I traded it in and got a Springfield V-10 compact 45ACP. It was extremely unreliable. Sent it to the factory and even after it got back it sucked for reliability....Bottom line...buy US.

I have two S&W 1911's, one is a stainless 5 inch. 100% reliable after about 2k rounds. I have a 1911 SC Scandium 4.25 inch, 100% reliable after about 1k rounds. Last I have an original Kimber Custom Classic from 1996 (no firing pin block) and I have thousands of rounds through it and aside from a bad magazine or two it has been 100% reliable.

CajunBass
August 25, 2010, 06:15 AM
I can't tell you which on the list is "most" reliable since the only ones I've ever owned are Colts. The only problem I've ever had came from a bad magazine and that would have happened with any gun.

So I voted for Colt.

BlayGlock
August 25, 2010, 05:37 PM
Ive owned many brands and any reliability problems have been due to bad mags and one tight extractor on an STI. I had a P.O.S. Para that had lots of stuff wrong.

My favorite brand is Nighthawk.

Ala Dan
August 25, 2010, 06:34 PM
Box, stock production - my vote goes to Smith & Wesson~! ;) :D :D

AK103K
August 25, 2010, 07:04 PM
this guy paid $2,600 for this NHC talon, and this is what arrived (2007):
That is pretty sorry looking. My buddys look nothing like that. Fit and finish are what you'd expect for the money (I suppose, I wont spend that much).

TonyT
August 25, 2010, 09:42 PM
Personally, I believe you should also consider the Dan Wesson Pointman series. I have one in 45 ACP, another with both 9mm and 40 S&W uppers and the newest a PM-9 in 9mm. All come with great factory triggers, undercut frame, full length slide rib, tight slide to frame fit and excellent accuracy.

RockyMtnTactical
August 25, 2010, 10:36 PM
So far, my Dan Wesson CBOB and Springfield have been flawless (aside from a failure or two with the CBOB that was mag related).

jim243
August 26, 2010, 12:45 AM
Can't afford 3 Kimbers only one. Never had a FTF or any other problem with it in over 700 rounds not even one FTF and I use HPs.

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/IMG_0789.jpg

possum
August 26, 2010, 01:39 PM
like most threads about reliabilty, someone will say that thier 1911, or gun "x" is 100% reliable, in "y" amount of rounds, which is normally a really low amount. ie 700rds in a handgun and no malfunctions is good, but that is still not alot of rounds. I put 5k thorough a 1911 before i decieded that it wasn't for me. Maybe my idea of reliability is different than others. if i have a gun that won't run through a 2 day training course without major issues that are the fault of the gun then I don't want it. Say 1,200rds in 2 days, now you might ask is that realistic? is anyone going to shoot defensivly with a handgun for 1200+ rds in 2 days time in thier life? no, however it does give the operator of that weapon system alot of confidence when they know thier gun will run above and beyond any sittuation that it would ever be used in. If it can't run for 1200+rds in multiple days of training then I know i can trust it on the street. i push myslef, my gear, and my guns. if they continue to run then they are kept otherwise i have no use for them. again my sig line pretty much sums this thread up pretty well. If you shoot enough you are going to have malfunctions, you are gonna have parts breakage, no matter what wonder gun, magazines and ammo you use it will happen, everything that is made by man wil fail one day for some reason or another. but most people are "gun owners and or collectors" and this wil probally never happen to them.

M2 Carbine
August 26, 2010, 01:53 PM
I don't own a Colt, Springfield or Smith 1911.
I have never seen any reason to buy anything but Kimbers since my 5 work so well.:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/kimbercollection.jpg

9mmepiphany
August 26, 2010, 04:11 PM
Maybe my idea of reliability is different than others. if i have a gun that won't run through a 2 day training course without major issues that are the fault of the gun then I don't want it. Say 1,200rds in 2 days
This is actually a pretty good standard of reliability. If your new gun, after a function/breaking/sight in, won't last through a 2-3 day, 1000-1500 round course without malfunction, I'd have some reservations about carrying it for defensive purposes.

It is not just the number of rounds through a gun, 12k rounds in a year is a different function test than 2k rounds in a weekend

BushyGuy
August 26, 2010, 04:21 PM
Springfield is one of the best, possibly the best there is. I like RIA but its no way as close as reliable as a Springfield.

Clarence
August 26, 2010, 04:32 PM
Out of the bunch listed I would pick Springfield.

Other than that I would pick Ed Brown.........based on my experience.

possum
August 26, 2010, 11:52 PM
It is not just a number of rounds through a gun, 12k rounds in a year is a difference function test than 2k rounds in a weekend
too true, as well most gun owners will never put 12k through anyone gun in thier life.

Springfield is one of the best, possibly the best there is. I like RIA but its no way as close as reliable as a Springfield.
MY MC Operator did not perform to the levels that i would want out of a gun that cost over $1000. the extractor broke at 3,500rds and was replaced with an ED Brown "Hardcore" extractor, and the rear sight came loose and drift almost all the way out of the dovetail in a 700rd training session. If i was going to go 1911 again, it would not be a Springfield.

TexasGunbie
August 27, 2010, 12:53 AM
GLOCK 1911 is very reliable in my opinion.

Echo9
August 27, 2010, 01:31 AM
Does that include the very top of Kimber's and Springfield's custom work?
Yep. Although I've heard you can order a Springfield TRP with no MIM.

This is the run-down as I understand it.

Colt:
Magazine catch
Sear
Disconnecter

Springfield:
Slide stop
Grip safety
Hammer
Sear
Disconnecter

Kimber:
Hammer
Sear
Disconnecter
Firing pin stop
Grip safety
Thumb safety
Slide stop
Front sight
Rear sight
Plunger tube
Magazine release
Ejector

That seems a little ridiculous, even for a Kimber. Someone correct me if you have better information.

As far as I know, those lists go for all of each company's pistols, except, like I said, specially ordered TRPs.

skoro
August 27, 2010, 09:52 AM
I've never had a single problem with any of my three Colts. :)

Fish Miner
August 27, 2010, 10:35 AM
I had been tracking this thread- I just got my first 1911 on Tuesday.

I went with the Springfield Loaded full size-

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i9/jminer1053/IMG_0445.jpg

it even has night sights which was cool and unexpected.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i9/jminer1053/IMG_0449.jpg

So far with 100 rounds- no problems. Which is exactly what I wanted, out of the box fun. My Spring XD in .40 has near 5K rounds through it and never had FTF or FTE.

I am am believer in their products. Here is a vid of the first rounds down the pipe...

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i9/jminer1053/th_IMG_0447.jpg (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i9/jminer1053/?action=view&current=IMG_0447.mp4)

9mmepiphany
August 27, 2010, 05:53 PM
Nice pickup.

Might I suggest you place your right thumb on the thumb safety and bring you left hand higher on the grip

tripe1917
August 28, 2010, 03:07 AM
Twenty five years ago I bought a Colt Gov.Series70 which had a stove-pipe problem. A gunsmith enlarged the ejector port and polished the ramp and no more issues,ever. I recently bought a Kimber Custom II and have fired 300 rounds without a hiccup.

Mr Woody
August 28, 2010, 08:55 AM
I bought a couple Colt 1911s back in the 80s. Nice looking guns but they did not shoot more than a couple of rounds without a failure. The gold cup was better but both were junk as far as being reliable. Now after being 'tuned' a bit by a co-worker they ran fine but my opinion of Colt quality has never recovered. I did however learn to like the 1911 and carried it for many years.

On the other hand my father in law had one made for the first world war and that thing never has a problem. I still have that one..and another one:)
Woody

Old Ranger
August 28, 2010, 04:12 PM
Good shooting? - - - Dan Wesson. I don't even know if you can get one anymore. Kimber - - - good, but when something did go wrong; getting them to take care of it was a nightmare. S & W - OK.

Springfield GI models are made in Brazil: may as well get a Taurus. Maybe others are made there too - - - don't know.

I bought a Rock Island GI model a while back and shot it a good bit: no jams, no problems; so I bought a tactical/target model, put a set of Pachmyr grips on it and took it to the range. Same thing, only better. After it was broken in I used my own loads: WCC Military brass, Winchester primers, Hornady 230 gr fmj bullets and 7.1 grains of Power Pistol. From sand bags it clover leafs at 25 yards, and sometimes puts them through the same hole. Off hand, two handed - - - that pistol shoots!! So if I had to get rid of everything except one, I'd keep the RI target model. I don't care how pretty it is, or what the name is - - - I only care how it functions and shoots.:p

BlayGlock
August 28, 2010, 06:11 PM
This one has been one hunert percent reliable from day 1:

http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv239/BlayGlock/NHC/NighthawkPredator003.jpg

Springfield GI models are made in Brazil: may as well get a Taurus.

Umm no. Not even close. Made in Brazil does not equal bad quality. The Springfield guns are favorite base gun for many full house builders.

9mmepiphany
August 28, 2010, 06:19 PM
Springfield GI models are made in Brazil: may as well get a Taurus. Maybe others are made there too - - - don't know.

I bought a Rock Island GI model a while back and shot it a good bit: no jams, no problems; so I bought a tactical/target model, put a set of Pachmyr grips on it and took it to the range. Same thing, only better...So if I had to get rid of everything except one, I'd keep the RI target model. I don't care how pretty it is, or what the name is - - - I only care how it functions and shoots.

I'm glad you've had a good experience with the RI, but it has been my experience that most folks prefer the forged frames from Brazil over the cast frames from the Philippines.

I even know top shelf 1911 smiths who will not accept the Philippine frames (Armscor, Rock Island, High Standard, etc...) for work, but welcome the Springfield frames...the Springfield frames are forged by IMBEL which is a world class manufacturer of firearm parts

WillDe83
August 28, 2010, 11:31 PM
My S&W 1911Sc has been running fine since I brought it home...but i only have a couple of thousand rounds through it. I like the way they are fitted better than comparably priced models in the other lines
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/9mmepiphany/DSC_0850.jpg

At the mid-priced range, my Springfield EMP has been surprisingly well fitted
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/9mmepiphany/DSC_1644.jpg
+1 for the Smith and Wesson Sc

only 1911 I have owned that has never jammed

migkillertwo
August 29, 2010, 12:34 AM
My only experience is with Kimber and very limited experience with Rock Island Armory. The Kimber runs like a champ after a couple hundred rounds. My only experience with Rock Island was an officer model that a fellow shooter at a range let me shoot about 28 rounds today, and it cycled every single round I gave it.


Off topic, but I liked the Rock Island a lot more than I liked the kimber. I thought it was WAY easier to make followup shots, and I thought the sights were more precise.

akadave
August 29, 2010, 01:42 PM
My experience in shooting for 30 years is that problems will pop up way before 700 or so rounds. The gun will run or it wont usually. If a gun I have will not cycle a certain round (exlcluding barrels that are not ramped and throated for other than ball) its unreliable and I usually get rid of it.

Its true most people will not shoot even 1,200 rounds in the period of time they own a gun but if they have problems from the get-go then its time to get it fixed or get rid of it. I dong believe in this 500 round break in period crap. I have never had to do that with any of my 1911's and dont intend to put up with it.

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