Smith & Wesson SD-series: repackaged sigma?


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Quoheleth
August 24, 2010, 05:40 PM
I got my American Rifleman today and flipped through it at lunch. There is a full-page ad by Smith & Wesson with their new "SD" ("Self Defense") series pistols.

A quick glance at the pictures makes me think a Sigma got a little too close to an M&P in the safe and they produced this gem.

Anyone hear or know anything about this new line?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757962_-1_757752_757751_image

MSRP is about $100 more than a Sigma; $200 less than a M&P.

Q

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Realbigo
August 24, 2010, 05:49 PM
Sure looks like it to me. I won't be buying one

Mags
August 24, 2010, 05:58 PM
Looks better than a Sigma to me, also has front night sights standard. The thing that really matters is does it have a good trigger? I seen one go on Gunbroker for 319 the other day. When they come down to 250ish I will probably get one.

wow6599
August 24, 2010, 06:25 PM
Yes. Sigma with a face-lift and tritium front sight.

Zundfolge
August 24, 2010, 06:43 PM
Sure looks like it to me. I won't be buying one
Other than a crappy trigger and being pig ugly, the Sigma is not a bad gun. But no I wouldn't own one either.

The SD is supposed to be an improved Sigma (not just a face lift ... the trigger is apparently more M&P like and is a marked improvement over the Sigma).

I probably won't run out and buy one (I'd rather spend a little more for an M&P) but for someone that doesn't have a lot of money it looks like the SD is a good bargain priced piece and should serve them better than a Sigma.

Here's (http://lonelymachines.org/2010/06/11/sw-sd-series/) a side by side comparison.

Full Metal Jacket
August 24, 2010, 07:05 PM
i hear they have only a 25lb trigger pull, rather than the sigma's 50lb one :eek:

dom1104
August 24, 2010, 07:41 PM
It is by no means, M&P like. The trigger pull is horrific.

oasis618
August 24, 2010, 07:50 PM
Now if only they would make a modular design so the caliber could be easily and inexpensively swapped out while still using the same grip frame.... I bet those'd sell like hotcakes! :eek:

Full Metal Jacket
August 24, 2010, 09:29 PM
:eek:

schmeky
August 24, 2010, 09:37 PM
The trigger pull is horrific

Well . . . . poooo :barf:

Landric
August 25, 2010, 05:05 AM
I have not shot a SD, but I did get a chance to dry fire one. I have both a M&P and a Sigma 9VE. The trigger pull of the SD was similar in length to the Sigma, but significantly lighter and smoother. It wasn't as nice as the M&P trigger, but then again S&W never said it was.

I'm in the camp that thinks the Sigma is a fine gun for what it costs. Its nothing to write home about, but mine has been flawless. The trigger on the Sigma gets a lot of flak, but anyone who can shoot a DA revolver can learn the Sigma trigger without much problem. The trick, like any other trigger, is to dry fire. Then again, it is a lot easier to blame the hardware than the software.

I think the SD will do well provided it doesn't start shooting up in price. Its not an M&P, but it does appear to me to be a significant improvement over the Sigma. I expect I would have gotten a SD9 instead of a 9VE if they had been available. On the other hand, my 9VE is just a plinking gun, so I might not have bothered spending the additional money. I am a big fan of S&W, but my preference for defense guns isn't in plastics. I like S&W and Ruger DA revolvers and S&W 3rd Generation autos.

KIX
August 25, 2010, 06:23 AM
Just looks a little to "glock" like to me.....

Kingofthehill
August 25, 2010, 09:57 AM
Damn... bunch of haters who haven't even shot it!

I own one now, my buddy sold me his. Its a great gun. I own 3 sigmas, and 5 M&P's right now and the SD is 3/4 of the way to the M&P for a hell of a price.

It has a trigger pull ALMOST like the M&P and its WORLDS better than the Sigma. The finish is nice, the tritium front siite is a nice upgrade. The whole gun is FAR better than the sigma.

Almost 2k rounds down it now and not 1 single hiccup. It points great and feels like a sigma in grip which is actually VERY nice....

All you guys hating on it before you have either shot it need to have your head examined. How can people come to a conclusion from a picture and an assumption? Unreal....

fastbolt
August 25, 2010, 12:23 PM
I haven't handled or fired one. I haven't heard of any making the rounds as a T&E/Demo gun for LE agencies at this point, either. I can't speak from personal experience.

Since the SD is primarily intended for the commercial market (as opposed to the LE/Gov market), I haven't heard of any armorer program available for it at this time. I'm sure they'll get one going at some point, since they still offer a Sigma armorer class ... and I'm sure they'd sell SD's to any small LE agency customer who wanted to order some and simply couldn't spend the money on the M&P series. (FWIW, back when I took a Sigma armorer class it was because it was incorporated into the last day of the regular 3rd gen pistol armorer class, but now it's a stand-alone class, like the SW99 & 3rd gen classes.)

I'm told the SD incorporates features of both the Sigma and the M&P series pistols, but I haven't had any hands-on time to see what that means. On the face of it, it seems as though the concept of a basic "budget" plastic pistol containing some refinements beyond what's been available in the less costly Sigma Series is a sound one which will likely have good market results for the company.

Like it or not, despite its detractors, the Sigma Series has always been a stronger seller for the company for customers looking for an affordable, no-frills basic plastic pistol. Just a standard size defensive pistol available in either of 2 of the more commonly desired defensive calibers. I see no reason for the SD Series to disappoint that market segment.

dom1104
August 25, 2010, 01:09 PM
Damn... bunch of haters who haven't even shot it!

I own one now, my buddy sold me his. Its a great gun. I own 3 sigmas, and 5 M&P's right now and the SD is 3/4 of the way to the M&P for a hell of a price.

It has a trigger pull ALMOST like the M&P and its WORLDS better than the Sigma. The finish is nice, the tritium front siite is a nice upgrade. The whole gun is FAR better than the sigma.

Almost 2k rounds down it now and not 1 single hiccup. It points great and feels like a sigma in grip which is actually VERY nice....

All you guys hating on it before you have either shot it need to have your head examined. How can people come to a conclusion from a picture and an assumption? Unreal....
I have shot one, and the example I used was so far removed from what you describe as to make me doubt litereally everything you just wrote.

Not saying you are lieing at all, but if someone came into the shop and said that, I would think they were. :)

The SD is cheap, the trigger is terrible with a SPROING type reset, absolutly terrible.

To say it is 3/4s of a M&P, either you have a FANTASTIC SD, which I dont doubt is possible <the 3 in the shop I dry fired were all the same, and all terrible tho>, or a absolutly horrible M&P.

I do not want anyone to walk away from this thread and go out and buy a SD without at least trying to talk them out of it, the trigger on the 3 that I handled and the one that I shot compared most closely with a Kel-Tec than anything else.

Or, a Sigma.

In my opinion, the SD is a huge, huge disaster. For an insignificant amount of additional money, you can have a M&P.

Which has widespread acceptance in the competition circuit.

THe SD, never will. I can garuntee you dat.

DO NOT. I repeat do not buy a SD. You will be dissapointed. Kingofthehill obviously disagrees with me, but I have not shot a gun in a long time that I absolutly hated, and the SD fits that bill.

Edit: I will say, pre-trigger job the M&P trigger is pretty horrible out of the box, but it can clean up so easily that its a non-issue. Its been a while since I shot a box stock M&P without Apex parts or a pro-series, so King might just be right about the trigger being almost as good as a M&P. If the M&P you are referring to is one without trigger work / replacement parts. thought I should clarify that.

Ben86
August 25, 2010, 01:19 PM
It looks like a Sigma+Consumer input=SD model

It seems like an attractive improvement to the sigma all around. I'm so glad to hear they improved the trigger. I'd still rather get an m&p personally, but it seems like this will be a good gun I can recommend to people wanting a first time budget handgun.

Kingofthehill
August 25, 2010, 01:20 PM
[QUOTE]I do not want anyone to walk away from this thread and go out and buy a SD without at least trying to talk them out of it.QUOTE]

Nobody should buy a gun until THEY personally use it, but you are trying to discount it before they even consider one.

Who's pocket are you in? What do you gain?

Its not designed to be a Competition gun, its designed for what they named it.. SELF DEFENSE... They did not target competition shooters, law enforcment or Military.

as for it being just a LITTLE more to an M&P, then you either get some CHEAP M&P's or some EXPENSIVE SD's.

where I live, you are looking at 350 for a Sigma, $415 for a SD and $550 for an M&P.

that 65 extra bucks to get the SD over the sigma is very very worth it, the $135 to the M&P for your average person buying a plinking gun and something to throw in the nightstand is very very questionable.

its a great gun for what it is. Its FAR better than many polymer guns out there with a nicer trigger. Guns i own and put it against would be like the Sig P250, Sigma, P95, SR9, SR9c... thats just what i have now and can think of right off the bat.

JOe

dom1104
August 25, 2010, 02:17 PM
[QUOTE]I do not want anyone to walk away from this thread and go out and buy a SD without at least trying to talk them out of it.QUOTE]

Nobody should buy a gun until THEY personally use it, but you are trying to discount it before they even consider one.

Who's pocket are you in? What do you gain?

Its not designed to be a Competition gun, its designed for what they named it.. SELF DEFENSE... They did not target competition shooters, law enforcment or Military.

as for it being just a LITTLE more to an M&P, then you either get some CHEAP M&P's or some EXPENSIVE SD's.

where I live, you are looking at 350 for a Sigma, $415 for a SD and $550 for an M&P.

that 65 extra bucks to get the SD over the sigma is very very worth it, the $135 to the M&P for your average person buying a plinking gun and something to throw in the nightstand is very very questionable.

its a great gun for what it is. Its FAR better than many polymer guns out there with a nicer trigger. Guns i own and put it against would be like the Sig P250, Sigma, P95, SR9, SR9c... thats just what i have now and can think of right off the bat.

JOe
Honestly you are probably right.

I have had my head up into the whole competition shooting world for a while, I forgot that people buy guns, worry about 150 dollar price tags, and throw them on the nightstand never to shoot them.

135 doesnt even pay for 3 months of primers, I sometimes am guilty of forgetting their are gun owners who arent gun shooters.

Your right. For that class of people, its probably fine. Never in a million years personally, but heck a hi-point works to throw on the nightstand.

Buy whatever trips your trigger, I am obviously out of touch with reality.

King, very well worded and explained, you have definatly reminded me of a whole different class of gun owner. One that I apparently forgot even existed.

Kingofthehill
August 25, 2010, 03:10 PM
King, very well worded and explained, you have definatly reminded me of a whole different class of gun owner. One that I apparently forgot even existed.


appreciate it. I by no means wanted to come off as a jerk or something.

Having worked at a high traffic range that sold tons of guns and being the type of person that get everyone i meet to go shooting, this is a pretty good gun to start. A lot of them don't want to shell out 500-600 bucks for what is honestly a better gun like a glock, m&p, sig, hk... but this gun is a lot better than the Sigma.

I have a lot of guns, and they range from $200-$3,800 and i tend to be a 1911 snob :) lol.. but I entroduce so many new shooters that they will often gravitate towards the Ruger P95 and the Sigma because its a big name brand with an attractive price tag. I truly believe the SD (So far in its infant stage) is a better buy and i am a HUGE fan of the p95.

I just wanted to point out that in my experience with it, the gun has proved to be 100% reliable. It reminds me of a V6 mustang or V6 Camaro. You want the name, but you can sacrafice a little performance because your not at the track every weekend.

The sigma was a HUGE drop from the M&P... and i respect the sigma, but the SD isnt' that big of a dropoff from my experience's as of now.

Glad you didn't take it hte wrong way. I appreciate it.

MrOldLude
August 25, 2010, 05:23 PM
I fired a mag through onne. It handled a lot like a glock. But the first round I got off, I kept pulling, and pulling and FINALLY it broke. Outside of the absurd trigger-pull, it was okay. Not great, but not horrible (trigger aside)

litman252
August 28, 2010, 11:29 AM
Great thread! I'm kinda excited about it, reason being the XD still sells pretty well based on price even though the XDM is not a LOT more (to shooters) but a chunk of money none the less (to non shooters).

I'll hold comments to when one comes in but I hope it sells well. Must be close to best bang for buck set up for strickly HD out of the box.

Tony

GMHAYESUSN
August 28, 2010, 12:01 PM
I really wouldnt mind picking one up i have a sigma and for my first semi auto handgun it was bad the trigger pull wasnt as big of a deal for me it has pretty much taken and bedside/truck role now but thats just because ive been pretty set with the 92fs since enlisting...

possum
August 28, 2010, 12:34 PM
I would spend the extra and get an M&P.

HspncElvis
October 18, 2010, 09:09 PM
I don't see what the big deal is about the Sigma trigger. I own the SW9VE. It's not for everybody, but with practice (as any other firearm) you'll be fine. Trigger eases up the more rounds you put through it. I'm enjoying mine. Accurate, and reliable.

GreenMTNLife
October 18, 2010, 10:12 PM
where I live, you are looking at 350 for a Sigma, $415 for a SD and $550 for an M&P.

Eh I just ordered a M&P40c for $450(add $25 for transfer) and my source has a M&P40 full size for $429(+$25). I didn't price shop too much but Buds has the SD40 for $434. At those prices of course I'll take the M&P. Too be fair it seems like I got a damn good deal, as locally the M&P40c is going for $560. I'd still probably take the M&P for $130 more but I'm sure there are people who would just get the SD. I wouldn't be surprised either if the price drops a little bit, it's still a very new item.

hk-sigman
November 13, 2010, 10:00 PM
I have an SD40 and when I first got it I thought I had made a terrible mistake. The trigger was terrible right out of the box. But after dry firing it about 40-50 times the trigger smoothed out beautifully!! I must say that now I truly believe that the SD Series may just have one of the best Combat triggers available. Not a great Target trigger but a great Combat trigger. It really is a great gun and I am very happy that I bought it.

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