SIG P229 - Which Variation?


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odium
August 24, 2010, 11:52 PM
I have narrowed my search for a CCW and all-around defense weapon to a SIG P229.

1) I am overwhelmed by my options between SAS, DAK, Elite, Platinum, SCT, and standard. I am not interested in the E2. http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProduct.aspx?categoryid=8

2) I am also overwhelmed by the option of 9mm or .40 S&W. I am concerned about being able to fire through a forearm holding a weapon or an automobile door panel or windshield if necessary.

What do you think?

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9mmepiphany
August 25, 2010, 12:23 AM
With the limited information you've provided, I'd default to my recommendation of the 9mm DAK as the most cost effective to feed and the easiest to learn to shoot well. Neither round is well known for being effective against a windshield.

If you are already a skilled handgunner and are willing to bear the cost of more expensive ammo, I'd highly recommend one in 357 SIG

odium
August 25, 2010, 12:48 AM
Is there any particular reason you've suggested .357 SIG over the others?

Demitrios
August 25, 2010, 01:00 AM
He suggested .357 SIG over the other two rounds because you specified that you wanted to be able to go through limbs and doors. The .357 SIG uses a 9mm bullet seated in a .40 S&W case to propel the 9mm bullet at much higher velocities, thus it can penetrate objects that it wouldn't normally penetrate.

My suggestion to you is that if you are a new shooter, particularly to handguns I would consider getting a .22 first and obtaining practice first. Since you're looking to use this weapon in self-defense scenarios then you should train your body so that if your mind or emotions become overwhelmed your body's muscle memory will take over.

.22 is cheaper, easier to shoot and honestly a lot of fun. If you insist on getting the SIG anyway at the very least look into a conversion kit for it. I promise you won't regret it.

Also, here's a really nice post from AR15.com from a shooter running his own test. http://intrencik.com/357sig.htm

Bullseye_shooter
August 25, 2010, 01:07 AM
Check out the Elite Dark and stick with the .40 or .357

basicblur
August 25, 2010, 01:14 AM
If you are already a skilled handgunner and are willing to bear the cost of more expensive ammo, I'd highly recommend one in 357 SIG
I might second that?
I bought a P229R and couldn't decide on caliber-figured since I had enough 40 and 9, I'd go with a 357 SIG both to have another caliber and for historical purposes. I stuck with the traditional DA/SA model.
FWIW, I've been able to find 357 SIG ammo at darn near/equal to 40/9mm in both SD and practice loads by hitting a number of police supply houses on a regular basis-ya just never know what bargains you'll run across.

Just fer fun/edumucation, you might want to download/stream the ProArms Podcast (http://proarmspodcast.com/) 055 "We're Getting the Band Back Together" to discuss the .357SIG cartridge.

Don't make many impulse buys, but the shop had a used (never fired) S&W M&P 357 SIG Police Package (3 magazines/night sights) for under $500, so now I own two 357 SIGS! :o

EDIT: Fergot to add-DON'T overpay! I'm seeing some wild price swings on SIGs these days. I got my plain Jane model for $650 (added night sights later).

REAPER4206969
August 25, 2010, 01:24 AM
He suggested .357 SIG over the other two rounds because you specified that you wanted to be able to go through limbs and doors. The .357 SIG uses a 9mm bullet seated in a .40 S&W case to propel the 9mm bullet at much higher velocities, thus it can penetrate objects that it wouldn't normally penetrate.

"The statement that the .357Sig, “has the ability to defeat hard targets better it can expand more with an equal bullet type.”, is not supported by either our research or that of the FBI FTU Ballistic Research Facility in Quantico, VA.

When firing through heavy clothing, automotive steel panels, automobile windshield glass, interior wall segments, exterior wall segments, and plywood, both the .357 Sig Speer 125 gr JHP Gold Dot and 9mm Speer 124 gr +P JHP Gold Dot exhibited nearly identical penetration and expansion results THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENT BARRIERS.

Several .40 S&W and .45 ACP loads offered superior terminal performance through barriers compared to the 9mm and .357 Sig loads." ...

HOOfan_1
August 25, 2010, 01:28 AM
I got my plain Jane model for $650 (added night sights later).

Plain Janes now are what used to be the "R"...most of the ones without night sights are retailing for $800+ brand new. With night sights they go for $900+.

Also the SAS version is designed for the CCW crowd, with a rounded trigger guard and supposedly deburred.

I personally hate DAO guns.....

basicblur
August 25, 2010, 01:36 AM
most of the ones without night sights are retailing for $800+ brand new
There was a thread 'bout SIG prices at one o' the THRs not too long ago-fella wanted to know where I got one for $650 and a number of folks chimed in-think they actually got 'em cheaper than I did (paid the same/a little more, but had more stuff on 'em).
I also got my HK USPC new for $650-they also seem to suffer from wild price swings.

It pays to shop around...

REAPER4206969
August 25, 2010, 01:37 AM
Neither round is well known for being effective against a windshield.
A bonded .40 bullet is as good as it gets for service pistol calibers when it comes to automotive safety glass penetration.

Demitrios
August 25, 2010, 02:15 AM
Reaper4206969 says: ...

I never claimed to be an expert, not only that all I did was post another guys thread on here for additional information. In fact what I suggested was buying a .22 for practice so. . . I don't know where you're coming from with that post or where you're going with it.

REAPER4206969
August 25, 2010, 02:41 AM
I don't know where you're coming from with that post or where you're going with it.
I'm not stepping on your balls, I just thought it was relevant to the thread.

Full Metal Jacket
August 25, 2010, 02:45 AM
A bonded .40 bullet is as good as it gets for service pistol calibers when it comes to automotive safety glass penetration.

in the form of a 10mm :D

REAPER4206969
August 25, 2010, 03:08 AM
Sounds like someone made a fresh pitcher of 10x25mm Flavor-Aid...

Full Metal Jacket
August 25, 2010, 03:15 AM
:eek:



:)

basicblur
August 25, 2010, 03:47 AM
A bonded .40 bullet is as good as it gets for service pistol calibers when it comes to automotive safety glass penetration.
I don't know why a bonded 357 SIG wouldn't be as good?
On one o' my monthly police supply house rounds, I cleaned 'em outta Remington Golden Saber Bonded @ $17.95/50-somebody down in Carolina must be going from the Golden Sabers to something else as he said he was no longer going to carry 'em.

Assuming you can believe the reports coming in, and if the OP listened to the ProArms podcast, the 357 SIG seems to be confounding a lot of folks. Seems the lab results are not matching up with what they're finding in the field (which turns out to be good thing).

Full Metal Jacket
August 25, 2010, 03:54 AM
the SAS is the nicest 229 i've seen. i'd prob get that one.

i don't like the foot-long grip tang on the Elite model.

9mmepiphany
August 25, 2010, 04:07 AM
in the form of a 10mm

That would be my take too. That was the original reason the FBI originally went with the 10mm, they wanted to be able to shoot through windshields and car doors. I remember reading a study once, about the 10mm, even at the reduced FBI velocities, having an advantage against vehicle glass.

The reason I recommended the 357SIG over the 9mm is that I have experienced superior accuracy with it. I also remember that it had superior performance against body armor...there was a bulletin that we received from our body armor supplier.

I would second the recommendation for the factory .22lr upper for the 229. It allows you to practice with lower cost, blast and recoil while developing your interface with the trigger

9mmepiphany
August 25, 2010, 04:11 AM
the SAS is the nicest 229 i've seen. i'd prob get that one.

i don't like the foot-long grip tang on the Elite model.

I really liked the DAK of the Gen I SAS models, but their "melt" treatment was a bit extreme for my taste...Gen II SAS are DA/SA

I thought the beavertail on the Elite was a good idea when they first came out, but after shooting a few of them, I found that they were both too wide and too thick to be really useful for indexing my hand on the draw

PAPACHUCK
August 25, 2010, 06:20 AM
Std DA/SA in .357 Sig with a 9mm conversion barrel/mag sounds about right to me.

9mmepiphany
August 25, 2010, 01:50 PM
Std DA/SA in .357 Sig with a 9mm conversion barrel/mag sounds about right to me.

Bear in mind that if you go this route, the 9mm mag will rattle a bit in your 229. The .40/357 SIG mag well is a bit wider on the 229

gym
August 25, 2010, 03:17 PM
Look over at Top Gun, they sometimes have a good deal on new and used sigs

mister2
August 25, 2010, 04:03 PM
Look over at Top Gun, they sometimes have a good deal on new and used sigs

And if you're getting a used one anyway, try to find a 228. Lighter, and fires the same +P JHP 9mm that was compared to .357 SIG, above.

It's also the original pistol designated M11 by the US military, if that matters.

Full Metal Jacket
August 25, 2010, 06:17 PM
I remember reading a study once, about the 10mm, even at the reduced FBI velocities, having an advantage against vehicle glass.

now i thought the FBI only used the Norma 10mm jhp round. that one's full power.

Lonestar49
August 25, 2010, 11:04 PM
...

Ah yes, Sig P229's, one of my favorite discussions..

I'd strongly recommend going 40cal (which they were built for) and enjoy the soft/balanced, natural, fall back on target w/accuracy they offer..

Hey, you can always get a 357 barrel up the road and just drop it in, as your mags for the 40 also work for 357 SIG..

180gr JHP's will do the job of penetrating many things as well and you can always choose a lighter 165gr or 155gr for more speed/more recoil if you are comfortable going that route once you break-in with your new or used/new P229..

Question is, do you want a rail.. ? If so there are plenty of NIB ones around or IF you don't, there are some non-railed ones around as well..

Me, I have 3 non-railed and 1 railed (had too at the time-first NIB 9mm) but, namely, for lasers, I use the CTC laser grips.. they're great, far better than any rail mounted ones and no special holsters required..

As far as SAO, yea, I like SAO "the most" but all my P229's are DA/SA and one can make them (DA pulls) real smooth, quick, and light, by simply taking off the factory 24lb main spring and buy a Wolff main spring kit for your P229 and between the 5 springs he sends, you can choose which much lighter spring, like one I use is 17lb and another is 18lb, and choose which you like best (with 500 rounds, pure, without one light strike - both mine have over 4000 flawless rounds with them) and find DA pulls quite fun/natural and accurate.

Cost around 22 bucks (for mainspring kit)to do (yourself) with the aid of a Sig Armour DVD showing you how to replace the mainspring if you want to learn how easy it is.. think the DVD is around 24 bucks

Nothing against DAK's or DAO systems fyi..


Luck,



Ls



Ps.. as far as I know, you can't get/fit a 357sig barrel in P229/9mm slide.. IIRC

ActionJax
August 25, 2010, 11:47 PM
I recently got the P229 Classic 22. It comes as the .22 LR -- slightly longer top end. Great for learning to shoot cheaply. Then the X-change kits come in THREE calibers -- 9mm, .40, and .357 SIG. I just got the 9mm kit and find it has plenty of recoil for a new shooter (~800 rounds total). Later on, if I wish, I can upgrade again to the .40, and so on. Gives me ALL the flexibility. The only down side is cost -- each kit is about $399.

Mags fit just fine -- I have a 15 round and a 13 round (9 mm), with two more "E" models on the way from Sig.

DA/SA -- the SA is great, the DA is clunky for me. If you absolutely DO NOT want any other calibers, I hear the DAK is the best for carry (only one trigger to learn), but I haven't shot it, and it is not .22 compatible (so says Sig).

Get the .22 Classic and whichever X-change you like. (If your wallet can stand it)

rtz
August 26, 2010, 06:16 AM
SIG at wholesale prices:

http://www.summitgunbroker.com/

P.shooter
August 26, 2010, 11:08 AM
I've got a standard P229 in 9mm with the night sights and I have yet to shoot something I like better. I had originally planned on getting the SAS, but found a deal on the railed one that I couldn't pass up. After some recent CQB training, I'm glad I have the rail and have put a Streamlight on it for home defense.

If you get the 9mm, I highly recommend some Mec-Gar after market 15rd magazines and some Hogue grips. The magazines are +2 over the standard 13 without any size increase and have worked for me flawlessly. The grips give a better hold on the gun with sweaty hands, and for $20 are worth trying out just to see if you like them better.

basicblur
August 26, 2010, 03:45 PM
If you get the 9mm, I highly recommend some Mec-Gar after market 15rd magazines
Where are you getting MecGars for a P229? I originally tried to get 'em, but they don't show 'em for the P229 on their home site.

'Course, I'm looking for 'em in 357 SIG if they have extra capacity?

EDIT: Nevermind-I found the 14 round in 357 SIG but they hang below the grip-guess I had found 'em in the past (the pix do ring a bell) but wasn't particularly interested as I don't care for the extra length.

speaksoftly
August 26, 2010, 05:14 PM
I have a P229 SCT and it's one of the best .40's I've ever shot. The balance is phenomenal. It's a bulky beast though...I don't carry it as much as I thought I would when I first bought it. It'll be with me more in the winter though.

Gik-tal
August 26, 2010, 05:20 PM
If it was me I would go simple by a plain 229 in 40 SA/DA. If later you think you would want it in DAO for whatever reason it can be converted. Same with barrels, buy it in 40 or 357 Sig and try it out. If you find you like one barrel more than another simply sell the one you don't want. Will highly recommend one thing, when you buy the gun buy a set of Houge Grips to go on it. Just a note there are a lot of Police turn in P229's on the market right now, most sell for around $500.00 and if you look you can usally find one in excellent condition.

FIVETWOSEVEN
August 27, 2010, 01:16 AM
This is worth posting here IMO
.357 SIG seems to create a wound cavity as good as a .45
http://intrencik.com/357sig_files/Handgun_gel_comparison.jpg

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