couple bolt action questions


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thomis
August 25, 2010, 09:10 AM
One-
Do you all use the removable "Loktite" when installing and torquing the action bolts?

Two-
Is it worth "glass bedding" a wood-stock hunting rifle? I mean, I have the Savage Model 14 in .308 and it is plenty accurate enough for deer but I'd love to be shooting half inch groups at 100 yards instead of 1.5 inch groups.
I found this (http://www.treebonecarving.com/id13.html) and am wondering if it is worth my time and effort.

Thomis

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Ol` Joe
August 25, 2010, 09:29 AM
Is it worth bedding a wood stock?
Short answer is yes. If the rifle is shooting well as is though I wouldn`t touch it.

I know of no one that uses lok tite on action screws. The wood will compress over time and the torque will change causing the screws to be reset at some point. This is where pillars come in as bedding method, they don`t compress and torque remains steady. Also I seem to have the problem of getting my firearms wet almost every hunting season and believe in taking them down to dry and clean. Lok tite would be a pain to keep breaking and reapplying.

Smokey Joe
August 25, 2010, 11:11 AM
Thomis--Ol' Joe answered well on the Locktite question, IMHO. As to bedding stocks, he saidShort answer is yes. If the rifle is shooting well as is though I wouldn`t touch it.Again IMHO, it depends on what you mean by "shooting well." For a strictly hunting rifle, 1.5 MOA is "good enough." Bambi will never sneer at the size of your groups. (A deer's heart is about 1.5 MOA at 200 yd.)

However, if you enjoy punching paper, and comparing your shooting to others, or if you want to compete with this rifle, or if you just like accuracy for its own sake, then a 1.5 MOA rifle is only a starting point. If this Savage is in good shape, and all the screws and bolts are properly tight, then it should be capable of much better accuracy than that--In a Savage .308 Win in good condition I'd expect about 0.5 MOA.

But before you modify the rifle, have you checked its compatibility with the ammo you are using--MUCH easier to do! If you handload, experiment with different powder charges, different bullets, different seating depths--ALWAYS consult a published manual for specifics. If you have to use "store" ammo, then buy as great a variety of ammo as you can possibly find, and carefully shoot it under controlled conditions, from a rest, at a range. You will find that your rifle "likes" some ammo better than other rounds, and that'll get you closer to that half-MOA. But really, if you want accuracy, handloading is the way to go.

Anyhow, it's much easier to check on the ammo than to dismantle the rifle and start messing around inside it, so I'd begin there.

Uncle Mike
August 25, 2010, 03:54 PM
Don't loctite your action screws! B A D!

Bedding works, but is not the cure-all for accuracy problems, contrary to popular belief!

Most accuracy problems are cured with ammo, attention to shooting form, knowledge of atmospheric effects on ammo performance, action screw torque and sometimes pressure points under the barrel!

crowderdog
August 25, 2010, 04:07 PM
In my wood stocked rifles I have found marked improvements in accuracy by using a combination of pillar/glass bedding and barrel free-floating. Ive done this to two Mauser '98s and a Remington 788. In the process I also upgraded the triggers to high quality adjustable replacements.

thomis
August 25, 2010, 04:54 PM
I have tried multiple handloads with several bullet types. I am convinced it is something in my action or stock that is preventing me from getting super tight groups. You can see pics of my groups here. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=539096)

Uncle Mike
August 25, 2010, 11:26 PM
You know, I am working on ironing out a problem Savage also. A 30-06 Model 116, it is doing much the same thing, it'll shoot 2 or 3 5-shot groups in the 1/2"(@100m) neighborhood, then as if the planets aligned wrong or something the groups do the 1 1/2" waltz!

I do know this particular rifle prefers short(er) ogive bullets like the Remington Core-Lokt(original) and the same bullets propelled at around 2800 or so, SST, NBT and Accubonds didn't fare well and pushing past 2900 causes accuracy to drop off.

I don't know.....still messing with it!

Have you torqued your action screws correctly yet? Has the barrel settled down yet, the last few Savages we shot-in at the shop seemed to need a LOT of rounds through before they tightened up, not the average Savage but still better than many of the other brands!

Try adjusting your action screw torque to different amounts, start with both screws torqued to 25 INCH pounds, in 5 pound increments alternating between the front and rear action screws, always start with the front screw first, shoot it, if not happy, bump the torque up 5 pounds and repeat, try this until you have 45 inch pounds on the screws.

45 inch pounds is max. Alas, you may need to bed her! While Savage tends to have very good wood walnut stocks that bolt-up nicely, you may have gotten a bum stock, I would send it back to Savage before I did any whittling on the stock, tell them the accuracy this rifle exhibits is just plain ol' unacceptable!

Savage is good peoples, they should make it right for you!

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