You are an Ambassador


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gun guy
August 26, 2010, 11:33 PM
We often see fellow gun owners, expressing their right to bear arms, thru bumber stickers. Personally it is good use, of freedom of speach IMO normally. Today however, there was the typical jerk, weaving in and out of traffic, cutting people off, in his big 4x4. You know the type, they are in every city USA. Tough guys, sleeves cut off to show off his bench press's.
All over the rear of his truck were: I'm the NRA, you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands, Kill the whales, all the typical macho bumper stickers. As he gave a one finger wave, to a car that honked at him, as he cut them off to turn the corner, I just had a wish, that guys like that, would change their minds and join HCI. It just seems people like this, do us all a huge disservice. Be a proud gun owner, display your NRA sticker if you like, but just remember, you represent all of us, slow down, let the other guy merge, avoid those cute little gestures. People judge me, by your actions. People judge you, by the things i do. Let's respect each other in public, and try to be the best ambassadors we can, if we display firearms ownership or rights, on our vehicles. Just a thought.
Have a great day.

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paul45
August 27, 2010, 01:03 AM
Tell the offender instead of the anonymity of preaching to the choir.

Rail Driver
August 27, 2010, 01:58 AM
Unfortunately this situation seems to be one of those "rock and a hard place" things... You call out a "macho" guy like that in public and tell him he's acting like an idiot and you risk being shot by an idiot or assaulted, because he's embarrassed at being publicly humiliated. You post about the event anonymously and there's a slight chance he could read it in the privacy of his own home and really think about his actions and how they look to others.

For all we know, Paul45, you're the guy in the truck.

I'd have to agree with the OP... We *ALL* are ambassadors for ALL gun owners whether we like it or not.

Uridium
August 27, 2010, 09:31 AM
It's the complete opposite over the pond, the gun owners there are mostly complete wimps and wouldn't say boo to a goose.
There is no middle ground it seems.

Boomm
August 27, 2010, 01:51 PM
I know I'm an ambassador. I'm not the guy in the truck, but I'm not going to be pushed around and I'm also going to speak my mind whenever I want to. At 6' 205 lbs, I work out on a regular basis and wear cut-off sleeves to the gym. I find being physically superior to most of the population gives me an advantage in life. I occasionally give the finger to people on the freeway after they pull some kind of BS on the road. I am not over-the-top, but I refuse to let myself be walked on just because you, OP, don't want to offend anyone.

fireside44
August 27, 2010, 01:57 PM
It just seems people like this, do us all a huge disservice. Be a proud gun owner, display your NRA sticker if you like, but just remember, you represent all of us, slow down, let the other guy merge, avoid those cute little gestures.

I agree with you, but I think it is unrealistic to hold someone to a higher standard than the rest of society simply because they are a gun owner.

Boomm
August 27, 2010, 02:19 PM
I agree with you, but I think it is unrealistic to hold someone to a higher standard than the rest of society simply because they are a gun owner.

This. Owning a firearm is a basic constitutional right, you don't hold people to a higher standard because they own a car or anything else of the sort.

hso
August 27, 2010, 02:32 PM
Boomm,

If not for the concerted effort to take away that right by antis there would never be any concern about winning the culture and political conflict over gun ownership. Keep in mind that there are very powerful politicians who have already said that they would take every gun away from every American if they could and that there are active groups that have the same goal. Because we came very close to that happening not that long ago (AWB 1994) we still face those same politicians and groups demonizing gun owners. Working to put the lie to their caricature of us is part of winning that culture war. There's a big difference between a redneck and a good ol' boy.

Boomm
August 27, 2010, 02:58 PM
Boomm,

If not for the concerted effort to take away that right by antis there would never be any concern about winning the culture and political conflict over gun ownership. Keep in mind that there are very powerful politicians who have already said that they would take every gun away from every American if they could and that there are active groups that have the same goal. Because we came very close to that happening not that long ago (AWB 1994) we still face those same politicians and groups demonizing gun owners. Working to put the lie to their caricature of us is part of winning that culture war. There's a big difference between a redneck and a good ol' boy.

I am very well aware of this; however, I am not going to lower myself to the status of a poser and project the image of a "good lil church boy" in order to not offend anyone. If you look at the most effective people in history eg. William Wallace, Winston Churchill, Teddy Roosevelt, and even Jesus, they did not pose and many many many people were offended by them. Yet they all changed the world. These changes did not come about because these men were afraid of offending someone. Even with people like the "truck guy," they have not taken our guns and are no where close to accomplishing this. The powerful politicians and anti-gun groups you speak of are not going to change their view on gun ownership no matter what you, me, or anyone says or does. The world needs aggressive, moral, strong men who have a cause for which they fight. Not posers who are afraid they might offend someone.

HexHead
August 27, 2010, 03:03 PM
The cut off sleeves used to be to show off the biceps. That's old school. Now it's to show off the tats.

fireside44
August 27, 2010, 03:09 PM
I am very well aware of this; however, I am not going to lower myself to the status of a poser and project the image of a "good lil church boy" in order to not offend anyone.

I dunno, in today's day and age being a gun toting "good lil church boy" is dang offensive and upsetting to many people. Sold!

The powerful politicians and anti-gun groups you speak of are not going to change their view on gun ownership no matter what you, me, or anyone says or does.

True, but some lughead you cut off in traffic might decide he "doesn't like guns/gun owners" because of negative perceptions someone may have provided him with. I think that HSO was talking more about being a positive influence on your average citizen rather than die hard anti gunners, whom no one will ever convince.

Rail Driver
August 27, 2010, 03:19 PM
I am very well aware of this; however, I am not going to lower myself to the status of a poser and project the image of a "good lil church boy" in order to not offend anyone. If you look at the most effective people in history eg. William Wallace, Winston Churchill, Teddy Roosevelt, and even Jesus, they did not pose and many many many people were offended by them. Yet they all changed the world. These changes did not come about because these men were afraid of offending someone. Even with people like the "truck guy," they have not taken our guns and are no where close to accomplishing this. The powerful politicians and anti-gun groups you speak of are not going to change their view on gun ownership no matter what you, me, or anyone says or does. The world needs aggressive, moral, strong men who have a cause for which they fight. Not posers who are afraid they might offend someone.

It's not about offending people.

It's about showing that you're not foolish and immature, that you have at least a modicum of respect for others, and that you're a member of the human race, not just a guy that don't give a crap about anyone but himself and his family.

Now don't get me wrong, I can be aggressive when I need to be, but driving like an idiot and cutting people off is dangerous to others. Think of it as not pointing your gun at something you're not intending to shoot, or not putting your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire... A car (or truck in this case) can be more deadly than a gun in the wrong hands.

If a person hasn't got the common sense to drive according to the law what makes you think that person has the common sense to handle a firearm properly? That said, when idiots drive like that and have NRA stickers and other gun related stickers on their vehicle it gives all of us gun owners a bad image, especially when these foolish and immature individuals end up causing accidents (fatal or not).

How will you feel if one of these foolish and immature individuals runs you off the road, especially after you've posted here basically defending your (and their) right to drive like a foolish and immature individual and generally just act how you choose regardless of the image it gives you and anyone else? Sure it's your right to say and do as you please ... until it endangers somebody else!

The way I see it, when gun owners who advertise the fact that they are gun owners and 2A supporters give other gun owners a bad image through acting the fool, it's endangering not only my life, but the life of my family, friends, and anyone else in the country. When gun owners act like fools in public it has a way of making those who may have been on the fence about the issue suddenly jump to the anti side.

A lot of us work HARD to avoid giving gun culture a bad image, and it really makes the job more difficult with people out there that claim to support gun culture, but show by their actions that the only thing they have a care for is themselves.

fireside44
August 27, 2010, 03:32 PM
If a person hasn't got the common sense to drive according to the law what makes you think that person has the common sense to handle a firearm properly?

Driving and gun handling are two different skill sets though.

Conversely, if a person hasn't got the common sense to handle a firearm safely what makes you think that a person has the common sense to drive a vehicle effectively?

Rail Driver
August 27, 2010, 03:36 PM
Driving and gun handling are two different skill sets though.

Conversely, if a person hasn't got the common sense to handle a firearm safely what makes you think that a person has the common sense to drive a vehicle effectively?

Sure driving and gun handling are two different skill sets... but common sense applies to both. I never claimed to think that a person has the common sense to drive a vehicle effectively if they haven't got the common sense to operate a firearm safely... The twist you've put into my words is irrelevant...

Safely and effectively are two very different things. Handling a firearm safely is one thing, handling it effectively is very different... The same holds true for driving a vehicle. Without common sense, a person should have access to neither item as they can both be extremely dangerous to bystanders when handled improperly (ie. without common sense).

Kleanbore
August 27, 2010, 04:24 PM
Posted by Boomm: I know I'm an ambassador.It is important to conduct yourself accordingly.

I'm not the guy in the truck, but I'm not going to be pushed around and I'm also going to speak my mind whenever I want to.Sometime that's appropriate, and sometimes it isn't.

At 6' 205 lbs, I work out on a regular basis and wear cut-off sleeves to the gym. I find being physically superior to most of the population gives me an advantage in life.I hate to break it to you, but a bullet from a .32 Automatic, a slash across a tendon with a sharp edge, or a pick-up truck through your drivers' side door will trump all of that.

I occasionally give the finger to people on the freeway after they pull some kind of BS on the road.In a lot of places that can get you arrested, and just about anywhere, it can get you killed or injured. Bad idea. All downside, no upside.

I am not over-the-top, but I refuse to let myself be walked on just because you, OP, don't want to offend anyone.successful ambassadors do not offend people.

Sam1911
August 27, 2010, 04:26 PM
There are two issues at play that I find work together.

1) I need to present myself well to those around me as a professional, civil, reasonably courteous, and responsible individual in order to conduct my affairs as I please, without confrontation, delay, or undue strife. That means a lot of things, but in the most relevant case here, it means that I am a gun owner, shooter, shooting competitor, match director, shooting coach (occasionally), etc. who is clearly safe, sane, and in control of himself and his weapons. Someone who's ownership and use of firearms poses no threat to -- and could even be seen as positive by -- friends, neighbors, co-workers, and citizens of my community. This is ambassadorship, of course, but it is also pragmatism. I don't want ill relations with my neighbors because I make them nervous. I don't want occasional or routine interactions with local law enforcement officers -- even if I'm technically in the right -- because I alarmed someone by my aggressive attitude combined with the fact that I was (or was thought to be) carrying a gun. Those are hassles that I would have to work hard to overcome. They don't help me, they HURT me.

And they get in the way of my message: I want to be approachable and open about firearms rights and use in order to spread the good word and to be a conduit for others to learn to ignore all the misinformation about guns in the world. I want to appear to be a credible, mature, professional source of information and advice, so that my guns and my beliefs about guns appear normal and rational to those who are new to considering the issues.

2) I carry a gun whenever I can. That means that I am responsible for introducing a deadly weapon into any possible altercation I might be involved in. A person who carries a gun has to be utterly meek and mild mannered -- a person who considers no offense worth escalating, because he knows that he holds in his hands the power to end someone's life. He cannot allow himself to be drawn into arguments, road rage, shoving matches, fist fights -- or any situation that could "end badly," because that bad end may be death, jail, and a life ruined by felony convictions and all their associated troubles (loss of job, divorce, financial ruin, lifelong emotional trouble, etc.). So "standing up to jerks," "putting people in their places," "taking no guff," "road rage" and all that macho bull-oney are understood to be worthless. In the end, it boils down to asking, "will I allow myself to kill someone over an insult, when I could have ended the argument by simply walking away?" Having to kill someone -- even ultimately in self-defense -- when you contributed to the problem instead of de-escalating it at all costs is pretty despicable. It is a failure of your mindset to extricate you from a dangerous situation by any means possible, and is horridly unacceptable.

Those two concepts are, for me, very compelling. I won't act like a tough-guy, like a bully, like a self-righteous jerk. I won't take offense. I won't be thin-skinned. I will walk away if there is any possible way to do so. I will de-escalate, ALWAYS. I will be a peaceable man, until and unless my or my loved-ones' safety is jeopardized. Those things may stroke my ego, but I'm far beyond needing my ego stroked. Perhaps there was a time ... but life is for real now.

hso
August 27, 2010, 04:31 PM
Being mature and responsible isn't the same as letting people walk on you. The attitude that you somehow have to take offense at the least sign of disrespect and dominate the other person physically is the behavior seen in gang members and not the behavior of a mature responsible gun owner. It is also the very behavior that antis want the public to attribute to all gun owners and not just gang bangers.

Sam1911
August 27, 2010, 04:35 PM
If you look at the most effective people in history eg. William Wallace, Winston Churchill, Teddy Roosevelt, and even Jesus, they did not pose and many many many people were offended by them. It would do you well to read about those men. They all changed the world in some way. And they all, perhaps, offended certain people in certain ways. But it was in ways that made a difference. Big idea ways. By the power of their principles, teachings, actions on the grand scale.

Not because they were pompus jerks to their fellow man. They wouldn't have gotten far if they were uncivil butt-heads.

There are ways to make a stand in this world -- and those ways will get you all the attention and opposition you could ever want. Going through your daily life acting like a social misfit just means your "stand" won't amount to much.

Kleanbore
August 27, 2010, 04:38 PM
...is worth reading and re-reading as many times as it takes to understand it.

LRS_Ranger
August 27, 2010, 04:57 PM
For what it's worth, the next time you are tempted to flip off, give someone your mind etc, you should think that if a confrontation DOES occur that requires that you use deadly force, YOU will be responsible in many places. One witness testifying that you were the first to flip someone off would make you the one who "started it" and you would be found guilty of murder.
It's the chest beating loud ones that I fear the least. Frankly, I find the headlight flashing, finger waving yellers comical. Trust me, you didn't tell me off, you made me remember the shotgun behind the seat and laugh to myself.

So, in the end, your retarded outburst makes you either a retarded jerk at best, or a criminal a worst. One thing is for sure, it puts you on par with a 3 year old.

leadcounsel
August 27, 2010, 05:04 PM
I have learned a lot from this thread.

ForumSurfer
August 27, 2010, 05:08 PM
Post #16...is worth reading and re-reading as many times as it takes to understand it.

That's the kind of image I want to project for my children. I don't want them to see me lose my temper and react like a jerk when someone acts like a jerk. What's the point in acting like a jerk because someone else does? That puts me at their level. From my experience, it takes the better man not to stoop to jerk's level.

That's the great thing about kids, they have taught me to lead by example. Why should I do anything (including flipping someone off) to further escalate a situation when nothing more than my image is at stake? Factor in a firearm and that means I am attempting to escalate something over nothing, putting myself and the jerk in danger of an escalating show of force.

waterhouse
August 27, 2010, 06:22 PM
I am very well aware of this; however, I am not going to lower myself to the status of a poser and project the image of a "good lil church boy" in order to not offend anyone. If you look at the most effective people in history eg. William Wallace, Winston Churchill, Teddy Roosevelt, and even Jesus, they did not pose and many many many people were offended by them. Yet they all changed the world. These changes did not come about because these men were afraid of offending someone.

I don't think the OP is saying that we should be afraid of offending people. If a person doesn't think I should have the right to carry a gun, I'll still carry a gun, even if it offends them.

Those historical figures you mention all had values that they felt were worth standing up for, and they stood up for them, even if it meant offending others. Flipping the bird to someone generally isn't very high on my core values list.

The OP isn't asking any one to sell their values down the river. At the very basic, he is asking drivers who have gun stickers on their vehicles to act like responsible adults. Acting like a responsible adult won't change an anti's mind, but it can't hurt, and it may keep some fence sitter from thinking "gun owners are irresponsible, I wish there was a way to keep them from having dangerous tools " before they head to the voting booth.

I've done my share of stupid things in a car. I've made immature gestures at other drivers. I've acted like a 10 year old brat over something as simple as someone causing me to tap my brakes when they switched lanes in front of me. At some point, I grew up, and realized that no good could come of any of that. Did growing up cost me my values? Am I a sellout poser for behaving more like an adult than I used to behave? I'd be willing to bet that Teddy Roosevelt, Jesus, Churchill, and Wallace would all say no.

2) I carry a gun whenever I can. That means that I am responsible for introducing a deadly weapon into any possible altercation I might be involved in. A person who carries a gun has to be utterly meek and mild mannered -- a person who considers no offense worth escalating, because he knows that he holds in his hands the power to end someone's life. He cannot allow himself to be drawn into arguments, road rage, shoving matches, fist fights -- or any situation that could "end badly," because that bad end may be death, jail, and a life ruined by felony convictions and all their associated troubles (loss of job, divorce, financial ruin, lifelong emotional trouble, etc.). So "standing up to jerks," "putting people in their places," "taking no guff," "road rage" and all that macho bull-oney are understood to be worthless. In the end, it boils down to asking, "will I allow myself to kill someone over an insult, when I could have ended the argument by simply walking away?" Having to kill someone -- even ultimately in self-defense -- when you contributed to the problem instead of de-escalating it at all costs is pretty despicable. It is a failure of your mindset to extricate you from a dangerous situation by any means possible, and is horridly unacceptable.

One of the better things I've read in weeks. Nice post Sam.

Boomm
August 27, 2010, 08:37 PM
I think that HSO was talking more about being a positive influence on your average citizen rather than die hard anti gunners, whom no one will ever convince.

If you read his post carefully, he was talking about die hard anti gunners.

It is important to conduct yourself accordingly.

I do, is there anything I posted to suggest I don't?

I hate to break it to you, but a bullet from a .32 Automatic, a slash across a tendon with a sharp edge, or a pick-up truck through your drivers' side door will trump all of that.

Duh. I'm not talking about an advantage in taking bullets/razor blades/getting hit by a truck. Working out makes you a healthier person in every area of your life and gives you a mental advantage over people who do not.

In a lot of places that can get you arrested, and just about anywhere, it can get you killed or injured. Bad idea. All downside, no upside.

If they give me a reason to and a cop see's what happened, any cop with half a brain is going to pull them over before me.

successful ambassadors do not offend people.

This depends if the person is rational or not.

Being mature and responsible isn't the same as letting people walk on you. The attitude that you somehow have to take offense at the least sign of disrespect and dominate the other person physically is the behavior seen in gang members and not the behavior of a mature responsible gun owner. It is also the very behavior that antis want the public to attribute to all gun owners and not just gang bangers.

I never said anything of the sort, neither do I act this way. Assuming I need to physically dominate everyone and I have the attitude of a gang banger is wrong on your part.

t would do you well to read about those men. They all changed the world in some way. And they all, perhaps, offended certain people in certain ways. But it was in ways that made a difference. Big idea ways. By the power of their principles, teachings, actions on the grand scale.

Not because they were pompus jerks to their fellow man. They wouldn't have gotten far if they were uncivil butt-heads.

There are ways to make a stand in this world -- and those ways will get you all the attention and opposition you could ever want. Going through your daily life acting like a social misfit just means your "stand" won't amount to much.

I have read extensively about all of them. I am not a pompus jerk or a civil butthead or a social misfit. If you have read about them, then you would know that William Wallace was a "pompus jerk" to his opposition. He was not civil to England in the least bit and would be considered a social misfit according to them.

For what it's worth, the next time you are tempted to flip off, give someone your mind etc, you should think that if a confrontation DOES occur that requires that you use deadly force, YOU will be responsible in many places. One witness testifying that you were the first to flip someone off would make you the one who "started it" and you would be found guilty of murder.
It's the chest beating loud ones that I fear the least. Frankly, I find the headlight flashing, finger waving yellers comical. Trust me, you didn't tell me off, you made me remember the shotgun behind the seat and laugh to myself.

So, in the end, your retarded outburst makes you either a retarded jerk at best, or a criminal a worst. One thing is for sure, it puts you on par with a 3 year old.

If someone cuts you of and you flip them off, it is not going to end in a deadly confrontation, so this argument is invalid.

Don't tell me you've never been aggravated and acted out, everyone has, and it does not put you on par with a 3 year old. If it did, then we would have a world full of 3 year olds which we clearly don't. Resorting to calling me a retarded jerk shows that you are, in fact, no different.

Those historical figures you mention all had values that they felt were worth standing up for, and they stood up for them, even if it meant offending others. Flipping the bird to someone generally isn't very high on my core values list.

Have anything to say about Wallace and his men mooning an entire army?

Rail Driver
August 27, 2010, 08:55 PM
If someone cuts you of and you flip them off, it is not going to end in a deadly confrontation, so this argument is invalid.

What world do you live in? Flip off the wrong person ANYWHERE and you could be shot, shot at, or had things thrown at your vehicle, run off the road, followed home and murdered...

I'd like to think that the world is all peaches and cream, but if that were so we wouldn't ever think of firearms as self defense tools, unless it's against a bear or wolf (ie out hunting or in Alaska).

Ever been to New York, L.A., Detroit, Louisville, Atlanta, Columbia, Reno.... The list goes on. Before you even mention it, yeah I'm aware every city has their good and bad parts, I was simply illustrating the point. For all I know you're from a small rural town that hasn't seen a murder in 80 years. What I'm trying to say is that with some of the "people" and I use that term loosely, that are out there... You never know what could happen from something as harmless as flipping someone the bird.

hso
August 27, 2010, 09:08 PM
Have anything to say about Wallace and his men mooning an entire army?
I don't think basing part of your world view on a movie version of Wallace lends much credence to your argument when the amusing scene of Scots covered in woad and raising their kilts from the movie never happened in history. Wallace lived in the 13th century. Kilts or belted plaids didn't come about until the 17th century and warriors painting themselves with blue woad was a 2nd century phenomenon that ended by the time the Romans were well through with their British adventure. There is no record of Wallace's troops "mooning" anyone at any time any more than there's a record of their wearing kilts 400 years before they came about or woad nearly 1,000 years late. The movie's full of errors, big and small.

If you read his post carefully, he was talking about die hard anti gunners.

Wrong again. I wasn't just talking about die hard antis who have their minds made up, another mistaken interpretation. Those committed politicians and antis can't be changed by our responsible behavior, but the fence sitters who vote and fund them can. The whole concept of being a good ambassador for gun owners is directed at the vast majority of folks who haven't completely made up their minds about what a bunch of dangerous, overbearing, irresponsible, reckless overly aggressive thugs the antis paint us to be.

Sam1911
August 27, 2010, 09:11 PM
It is important to conduct yourself accordingly.
I do, is there anything I posted to suggest I don't?
Yeah. Your "I occasionally give the finger to people on the freeway after they pull some kind of BS on the road," comment pretty much tarrs you with a black brush. Responding to people who vehicularly offend you in some way with a visual insult is childish and absolutely can lead to escalation of violence. It is not the right path to take. Even if you don't care about the ambassadorship element of life, what does such an act gain for you? Nothing.

No one has EVER offended or insulted another person to such a degree that the other person decided to agree with them, apologize, or in any other way make restitution for their poor actions. So why respond? The only possible answer is that it offers some impotent release for your anger. But that is a monstrously immature justification.

Duh. I'm not talking about an advantage in taking bullets/razor blades/getting hit by a truck. Working out makes you a healthier person in every area of your life and gives you a mental advantage over people who do not.So that's what you meant by being physically superior to others? O.k. Enjoy it. It is fleeting, temporary. Try to think beyond to a couple of years down the road when your body won't be a few percentage points above average capacities.

In a lot of places that can get you arrested, and just about anywhere, it can get you killed or injured. Bad idea. All downside, no upside.
If they give me a reason to and a cop see's what happened, any cop with half a brain is going to pull them over before me.Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe there will be a cop there. Maybe not. Maybe the other driver will draw a gun and shoot you before you have time to react. It happens. Actually it happened near here recently. You never know what the other guy will do. If you can't improve your own life or situation by antagonizing him, why risk tripping his trigger?

I have read extensively about all of them. I am not a pompus jerk or a civil butthead or a social misfit. Good to hear. Perhaps you've just chosen some unfortunate examples of behavior to share here.

If you have read about them, then you would know that William Wallace was a "pompus jerk" to his opposition. He was not civil to England in the least bit and would be considered a social misfit according to them.I think you should consider the scope of what you're discussing. Armed grassroots resistance to an oppressive "foreign" power is a far cry from offering a fellow driver a profane gesture as an ineffectual protest against being inconvenienced in some infinitesimally minuscule way. Try not to insult the memory and accomplishments of great men by comparing piggish road rage to the legendary causes they fought and (usually) died for.

If someone cuts you of and you flip them off, it is not going to end in a deadly confrontation, so this argument is invalid.Oh... wow. You really have no idea of what happens in the big bad world? Yeah. People die over stuff like this. People end up in jail over stuff like this. "Good guys" turn into "bad guys" over stuff like this. It isn't harmless. It isn't cool. It isn't responsible.

Have anything to say about Wallace and his men mooning an entire army?Yes. Not to get off-topic, but I do. Celtic, Briton, Gaels and Picti warriors (and all those other tribal societies) did all kinds of things to cause terror in their enemies, including face-painting and unnerving vocalizations. Those were battle tactics. They were organized, purposeful, and effective -- preparatory to killing your enemy and/or dying in battle.

If flipping someone off in traffic is analogous ... well, I'm not smart enough to see the connection.

hso
August 27, 2010, 09:19 PM
Boomm,

You're still young enough to be full of a young man's foolish aggression just having turned 21 where casual rudeness is mistaken for taking a stand. It's just marking your territory. Flipping people off and other antics with vehicles is something that cause or escalate confrontations and might lead to not living long enough to mature. Being polite to everyone is part of growing up as is handling vehicles and firearms safely. Life can be a long trip so it's best to slow down, cool off and don't mistake being civil in your daily dealings with weakness.

Geno
August 27, 2010, 10:59 PM
Boomm:

It's easy for anyone to be 6 foot tall and 200+ pounds on the internet. Myself, I'm only 5 foot, 9 & 1/100th inches tall. But at a moderate 180 pounds, my feet and hands are much quicker than I am in my mouth. I've seen guys that had the opposite issue.

I guess it's due to me having been a professional Taekwondo instructor for 32 years that I have learned to keep my fingers and hands clinched. I don't ever one-fingering anyone. Well, sometimes might mindlessly one-finger my own nose when I think they ain't no one lookin'. I mean, really...give the guy a break. Maybe he had a sticky booger an' was tryin' to flick it. Maybe he wasn't flippin' you off at all. See, if you think of the poor fool as being just that, it lessons the offense.

Over the course of 50 years, many people have wanted to see just how much TKD I know. They run their mouth, or flip me off, etc, etc. I determined years ago, I have nothing to prove to anyone. Same counts for on the road, or at the range. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I'm not much for bravado. :cool: In closing, we just about two or three months back saw a kid get shot and killed because some fool thought he "...dissed him..." I learn from others' mistakes. You might benefit from that, and if so, you too might grow old like me. Then again...given your views, you might not see 22.

Geno

Cosmoline
August 28, 2010, 12:13 AM
If someone cuts you of and you flip them off, it is not going to end in a deadly confrontation, so this argument is invalid.

It certainly can end in a deadly confrontation. Esp. if you have a pair of knuckleheads who refuse to back down or be "unmanly." So one or the other or both ends up getting a hole or two, and finds out big biceps mean bo diddly.

Carrying a firearm means leaving all that nonsense in childhood where it belongs.

ForumSurfer
August 28, 2010, 12:32 AM
If someone cuts you of and you flip them off, it is not going to end in a deadly confrontation, so this argument is invalid.

It's an escalation. The other guy could easily escalate it to the next level. Then you return the favor and so on...

Am I guilty of it? In my younger days...yes. I had a horrible temper up until about 25 when I nearly got arrested over it. If I explained the story, I'm sure many people would armchair quarterback it...but a large percentage of 25 and younger crowd would react similarly. Now if I get flipped off or otherwise insulted, I ponder it too much and don't react other than to preserve my safety or my family's safety. It bothers me none to see the guy behind me flashing his lights and blowing his horn. If he gets more aggressive, he can follow me to the pd. I can outrun him, but that's reckless. I've taken defensive driving classes in the past and he's going to need to be good to run me off the road.

Don't get me wrong, brother. I'm not criticizing. It sounds like something I'd be guilty of in the past. I'm just saying there are better ways of handling it.

offthepaper
August 28, 2010, 12:34 AM
Carrying a firearm means leaving all that nonsense in childhood where it belongs.

Foolish pride has buried many a man.

Corporal K
August 28, 2010, 12:49 AM
Escalating a traffic altercation does not make you a strong, moral man unwilling to back down and fighting the good fight. It just makes you an insecure fool.

kingvillien
August 28, 2010, 12:53 AM
That's why i never put bumper stickers on my vehicles. Don't want ppl. to associate the NRA with jerks that speed.

atomd
August 28, 2010, 12:54 AM
lts or belted plaids didn't come about until the 17th century and warriors painting themselves with blue woad was a 2nd century phenomenon that ended by the time the Romans were well through with their British adventure.

And all of the bagpipe music that went along with it in that movie didn't arrive until much later too. Hollywood is Hollywood....certainly not reality.

Geno
August 28, 2010, 01:08 AM
Corporal K:

Direct to the point, and pretty durned accurate! Kudos!

Geno

Arkansas Paul
August 28, 2010, 01:29 AM
If someone cuts you of and you flip them off, it is not going to end in a deadly confrontation, so this argument is invalid.


You come to North Little Rock and do that and it may very well lead to at least a violent confrontation, if not a deadly one.

mljdeckard
August 28, 2010, 07:33 AM
I don't worry about it too much. It's not just us. For every "Start seeing motorcycles" sticker you see, there are a dozen 21 year-olds on crotch rockets zigging in and out of traffic attempting to become road pizza.

I try to give outsiders enough credit to realize that when they see a bad example of a given group, it doesn't necessarily mean that they judge us all by that example, and if the DO, well.......they probably already had their mind made up anyway.

bikerdoc
August 28, 2010, 08:38 AM
Speak softly, blend in, act politely, remember your manners, and go about your business.

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