What are you defending against?


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sm
August 27, 2010, 05:59 PM
Non-Firearm Weapon sub-forum is about non-firearm weapons, of course.

As a suggestion, one should access themselves, and their environment(s) and ACLs (activities of daily living). The Highroad is Global, since one accesses
THR using Internet. Internet is Global.

WE have members that are in countries, or visit countries, with restrictions. Even in the United States, we have restrictions. We also have members under the legal ages to carry firearms, knives, and "weapons". Add, we have members with teenagers, and kids, attending schools, where there are restrictions.

I was born in the mid 1950's, and one was "not dressed" without a pocketknife, and some way to make fire, and at least one "emergency dime" in which to use a payphone.
The "fire", be it a match, or lighter, also doubled as light. Yes, it was strongly suggested, one have a light on person, or close by.
Granted the small flashlights (torches) of the times, were not "that" great, still...

Everyone, ladies, gents, boys and girls, were "not dressed" without a pocketknife, and "fire" on person, and that dime.
Times were different, as we did carry knives to school, and matches, and lighters, and...
No backpacks, or lockers in elementary school...no government meddlin', and other nonsense, as we have today. Parents, parented, mentors mentored, and teachers, taught.


It is too easy to get caught up in THE Great Equipment Race. Having to have the latest, greatest gun, holster, ammunition, knife, defensive spray, cane, and so forth.

Even with Freedoms, to legally carry weapons,and non-firearm weapons, there are NPEs. Non Permissive [to weapons] Environments.
Best known areas are Airports, Courtrooms, and Government Buildings.

My point is, do not rely on physical things to keep you safe, instead, train the brain.

Your child, in first grade, cannot carry a gun or knife, nor can your teenagers in High School.

What threats, do you, your wife/husband/kids, NEED to concern themselves with, and what non-firearm weapons, do they need to have on person, in the event of a serious situation?

You can teach, train, a child to use a Number Two pencil, on Femoral, Carotid, arteries in the event of such a need, however, your child may benefit more from having a small, flashlight, coaches whistle and if allowed, a cell phone.
The Swiss Tech, 6-in-1 tool, "might" be allowed, in school, check first, still this might prove useful.
I know a door stop would be.

Not everything defaults to "gun" or "knife" or "____". The brain should be default, as that is the only thing for sure, one is going to have with them, if something, serious, occurs.

Serious weather, such as storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, flooding, mud-slides, might be the "threat" your child, or teenager has to deal with at school.
The same can be said, for you, or your spouse.

What do you have on person, that if matters got serious, could you "deal with the threat"?

True:
When the fire alarm went off in the nice hotel I was staying in, in Dallas, I did not worry about the shotgun I had in a garment bag. Nor did I care about the extra handgun. Instead, my main concern for "equipment" was the bandannas, and flashlights. Oh, I also had a coaches whistle.
I forget exactly what floor I was on, I want to say the Eleventh, no matter, I and others used the stairwells.

A lot of darn good a 12 ga pump shotgun, and Big Bore Revolver, would have done against smoke, and fire...
I did use my pocketknife, to make some "bandanna's" for others, out of towels, shirts, robes, whatever...

My flashlights, were a comfort, especially to kids and elderly.


Oh I am not against guns, knives and "equipment", all I am suggesting, is folks do a reality check with not only themselves, also spouses, and kids, and train the brain for the threats one might find themselves in, and then get trained up, with the "equipment", one can use.

This equipment might include things one can carry, all the time, and, most important, the ability to use expedient, and improvised tools.


Software, not hardware.


Steve

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harmon rabb
August 27, 2010, 06:52 PM
Good post.

Thankfully I live in the USA, and in a free state at that, so I carry a gun, knife, and flashlight everywhere I go.

Carl Levitian
August 27, 2010, 07:48 PM
You never can tell!

I had this old scout master when I was a kid, and he gave us some very good advise. He told us that once you walked out your front door in the morning and out into the big world, you never knew what you would run into before you got home at night. I took that to heart.

Twice in the last few years, the better half and I have been involved in DC's great metro failure prone system. Once a train breakdown caused the passengers to have to walk down the very dark catwalk on the side of the tunnel to the next station. The metro train personal only had those dim old style yellow flashlights. Both my spouse and I had AA MiniMag lights with the Nite-eze conversions, and helped guide passengers. Both times it was far enough underground that it was pitch black without a light. The train engineer was grateful for the help. We were just glad to have our own lights. The other time was metro train derailment, and again, I was glad that we could fend for ourselves. We've since given up riding the D.C. metro.

For years, I always carried two clean bandannas. Kept one rolled up in a back pocket just for emergency. Ended up using it as a pressure compress to hold on a deeply cut young man who fell into a glass window.

My wallet has a zipper compartment. I keep a safety pin, a paper clip, a P38 can opener and a Sears 4-way key chain screwdriver in it just for emergency's. The safety pin takes out deep splinters, the little screwdriver has let me fix things. Surprising what you can cob together with a paper clip if you can just unscrew or pry off a cover and get into it.

I'm a pipe smoker, so I always have fire on me. I keep a mini Bic in my pocket, with a new one rolled up in my tobacco pouch. Never know when you may need to make a fire to warm up. Not to mention the real emergency if I want to smoke my pipe, but have no light.:D

Of course my dad and our scoutmaster pressed home how dire it was to have a knife. I always have two on me. My Case CV sodbuster or number 8 Opinel is my main pocket knife, with a CV peanut in another pocket.

Light, fire, and pocket knife, and a few tools, will get you a long way with a little thought and careful tactics. Add in a nice stout walking stick for balance on uneven surface in the dark, or to ward off something dangerous, and you should go far. Just use your head for something other than a hat rack.

zhyla
August 27, 2010, 08:25 PM
I was born in the mid 1950's, .... Everyone, ladies, gents, boys and girls, were "not dressed" without a pocketknife, and "fire" on person, and that dime.

This is the first time I've heard the part about women carrying knives. I don't really believe you. I've never had an older relative mention this and never seen anything in pop culture from that era that would suggest this to be true.

A dime is of course today's cellphone, and matches, well, that's dying with the smokers.

I agree that preparedness for common things is important. As great as guns are knives really solve more of your day to day problems.

Here in CA the prepared among us keep what we call an earthquake kit. Food, supplies, chlorine tablets, etc. A firearm of some sort is a good idea too.

ArfinGreebly
August 27, 2010, 09:52 PM
This is the first time I've heard the part about women carrying knives.

Born late '40s.

My grandmother always had a knife of some kind about her person.

My mom always had some kind of scout or camp knife in her handbag.

My older sister only carried a knife if she was going somewhere that would make a cutting tool useful. In that case, it was "gear" rather than defensive.

I got my first pocket knife (scout/camp style knife) as a present when I turned 12.

Many, if not most, of the women around me when I grew up had a little knife of some sort in their handbag. No one discussed it, really. I mean, why would you? When everyone (or nearly everyone) has one, what's the big deal?

There were always girls or ladies who didn't have one, but that just provided an opportunity for a guy to be a gentleman. Sometimes, thinking back, I think the girls "played helpless" to encourage stuff like that.

Nobody I knew was squeamish about jackknives, teachers included. They only got upset if you were carving your initials in your desk.

There were regional differences. In farming communities -- Mt Vernon, Ohio [early fifties], Green Mtn, Alabama [mid fifties], Placerville, California [early sixties] -- a girl was as likely to have a knife as a guy. Maybe not some of the "citified" gals, but if her chores took her outside, like as not she had something to cut with. Placerville was more orchards than farms, but you didn't do a lot of orchard work without some cutting tool.

I suppose you could modify the bit about "girls not being 'dressed' without a knife" to read, "not 'dressed' without a knife, or a companion carrying one."

A jackknife was just part of life. Nothing to get excited about. Heck, boy, it's just a jackknife. Waddaya want, a medal?


Of course, my view may be biased: I didn't grow up in towns of any size.

Sano
August 28, 2010, 01:58 AM
Without a knife, fire, and light, a person is less prepared than a thawed out frozen cave man. I don't carry a cell phone and am barely in the digital age but I am firmly established in the iron age.
I live in the USA and can carry a gun anywhere I am allowed to or until arbitrarily disarmed at the whim of any federal, state, local or private police.

owlhoot
August 28, 2010, 02:51 AM
My wife has carried a good lockback knife in her purse for as long as I have known her, not for defense, but for any cutting chores she might encounter. I sharpen it about once a year. She doesn't need it often, but she wouldn't be without it. She also carries a small, high quality flashlight and, of all things, a small metal tape measure. None of this is at my urging. Actually, we've never even discussed it.

zignal_zero
August 28, 2010, 07:41 AM
i'm with ya. heck, you can ask my 9yr old son "how many weapons do you have?" and he'll tell you "two - my heart and mind" he knows everythingelse is a tool, but he also knows certaiin tools are very important to keep handy: a knife, a flashlight, fire making tools, gun, and communication tools (he doesn't carry the last two as much). it's taking a little longer than anticipated to really convey the importance (of these items) to my wife, though. she's normally got the knife and the phone, we're working on the rest :)

bikerdoc
August 28, 2010, 10:29 AM
Sage advice as usual.

Deltaboy
August 28, 2010, 10:46 AM
Sage Advice.

Coyote3855
August 28, 2010, 06:19 PM
Timely post, sm, as I am taking a short flight for an overnight business trip next week. It's my first plane ride in 5-6 years, and I won't be checking baggage. It will be the only time in years that I'm leaving the house without a multitool, pocket knife, lockback folder, lighter, and a handgun. I guess my minimag will be okay. Thank you for reminding me about the most important tool. And some hard lead pencils.

TimboKhan
August 28, 2010, 07:39 PM
This is the first time I've heard the part about women carrying knives. I don't really believe you.

Both my grandmothers carried knives, as does my mother now. I grew up on a farm and I can't think of a girl I knew regardless of age that doesn't carry a least a little SAK or something. Probably it has never been mentioned because, you know, why would it be?

The bigger question I have is why you wouldn't believe SM on this one. Its not like he said that all women carried lightsabers or broadswords or something. Even at the most misogynistic level of thought, it's totally within the realm of reality that a woman might need a small knife to fulfill her womanly/wifely duties. From the least misogynisitc point of view, maybe they just like knives. It's not like they are gender specific or anything.

Dave Markowitz
August 28, 2010, 09:00 PM
None of the older women in my family carried knives regularly, but they were from the NYC/Long Island area. It's probably an area/cultural thing.

I've gotten my wife to keep a Victornox Rambler and a Photon light in her purse. She's used the Vic numerous times and the little LED Photon has come in handy for her a couple times when the power went out at her workplace.

My own EDC includes a knife (most often a Vic Pioneer), a Photon LED light, and a Peanut lighter from Countycomm.

ACP230
August 28, 2010, 10:03 PM
My grandmother had a small knife with fake mother-of-pearl handles in her effects.
I don't know how much she carried it, but do know she sometimes had a long hat pin with her as a young woman. It was about four and a half inches long and nothing anyone with sense would like to have gotten shanked with.

My grandfather had a barlow type knife and carried it for years. I got it after his death and carried it through most of grade school and all of highschool. I lost it while I was in college when my old jalopy wouldn't start when I wanted to go deer hunting. The last time I saw it it was in my hand and I was scraping the battery terminals of that old Buick. It then disappeared, probably in the snow around the car. Wish I still had it.

CoastieShep
August 28, 2010, 10:36 PM
I can't even remember the last time I left the house without a knife and a lighter.

ambidextrous1
August 28, 2010, 11:16 PM
Thanks for starting this thread, sm!

I'm getting on in years, so I recently subscribed to AAA; I didn't think it was necessary for most of my life. I also consider my cell phone to be an important tool to have with me, "just in case".

I also carry a knife, fire maker, and frequently, a small pepper spray dispenser. I have an LED light on my keychain, but earlier comments in this thread have me re-evaluating the sufficiency of this item.

No one has mentioned timepieces as essential tools; I have that covered with the cell phone.

A small container of aspirin may help save someone's life some day; and instead of a dime, a few dollars can be helpful.

Let's keep the thread going, people; let's hear some more ideas!

TimboKhan
August 29, 2010, 05:15 AM
You guys want to know the real wisdom of this thread?

Pass on what you know, but make sure you know what you pass on.

ozhuntsman
August 29, 2010, 06:54 AM
Here in Victoria, Australia our rights have been infringed so far that our state government has decided to make it illegal to even carry knives in public, penalty is $1000 on the spot fine.

Sano
August 30, 2010, 12:36 AM
I like the idea about the aspirin. I sometimes carry a nasal spray squeeze bottle full of pepper spray that I get from near empty old canisters. Most people wouldn't stick someone elses spray up their nose but just in case, I keep it secure.

conw
August 30, 2010, 02:03 PM
If I'm in an urban environment where it isn't cold does anyone know why I might need a way to start a fire? I keep one in my bag but it isn't an EDC item. Just wondering if there's something I missed. Everyone talks about it like it's a must have item (lighter or matches) but unless you're in the wilds and/or it's cold, I can't imagine a use for nonsmokers.

ArfinGreebly
August 30, 2010, 07:22 PM
If I'm in an urban environment where it isn't cold does anyone know why I might need a way to start a fire? I keep one in my bag but it isn't an EDC item. Just wondering if there's something I missed. Everyone talks about it like it's a must have item (lighter or matches) but unless you're in the wilds and/or it's cold, I can't imagine a use for nonsmokers.

Well, a couple of things come immediately to mind.

In an infrastructure breakdown, earthquake, or whatever, you may find yourself having to boil water.

And, in any case, you may want to cook your food.

Oh, and you'll want to use an actual flame if you plan to light a candle. Candles are cheap and provide light/heat (sterilize/boil) and won't use up the batteries in your flashlight.

Also need flame to singe the ends of nylon/plastic rope to keep it from unraveling.

zignal_zero
August 30, 2010, 07:25 PM
If I'm in an urban environment where it isn't cold does anyone know why I might need a way to start a fire? I keep one in my bag but it isn't an EDC item. Just wondering if there's something I missed. Everyone talks about it like it's a must have item (lighter or matches) but unless you're in the wilds and/or it's cold, I can't imagine a use for nonsmokers.

oh.... i can think of alot of uses :D i think it's best left up to the imagination, though. if you can't figure it out, you're not envisioning a bad enough situation :)

conw
August 30, 2010, 07:50 PM
Yeah, I wasn't really going in the direction of "setting cars on fire as a diversion a la No Country for Old Men," zignal :p.

Fair enough AG. The boiling water and cooking in extreme situations is a well taken point, I'll heed that. It isn't persuading me to carry one in my pocket but I do take your points.

shockwave
August 31, 2010, 09:59 AM
I don't really believe you. I've never had an older relative mention this and never seen anything in pop culture from that era that would suggest this to be true.

Ha ha. My specialized area of interest is US language, ca. 1920 - 1950. I read very deeply in the history of the first half of last century, and pocketknives were ubiquitous. My grandmother was from Appalachia, and always had various tools in her purse and many more in the trunk of her car. She usually carried scissors, too.

In addition to a CS keychain (http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/ASP-Defender-Series-p-1-c-558.html), I've added a County Comm mini-prybar (http://www.countycomm.com/widgy.htm), wrapped in paracord with a lanyard. This has proven to be a very useful tool for all kinds of small tasks - better than a knife in many cases.

As an impromptu weapon, the ground is your friend. I've really been working hard now on my takedowns, and knocking a person down, sweeping them, taking away balance, dumping a person down, throwing them down, tripping, bending back and forcing down, all of these techniques can be effective in an open area and downright devastating in closed quarters like a bar or restaurant.

Gravity is always with you.

zhyla
August 31, 2010, 04:00 PM
Ha ha. My specialized area of interest is US language, ca. 1920 - 1950. I read very deeply in the history of the first half of last century, and pocketknives were ubiquitous.

Looks like my perceptions were incorrect. Thanks everybody for the correction + stories. When did women stop lugging knives around?

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