Gun Safe Break In?


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Justin Holder
August 27, 2010, 05:08 PM
Dose anyone know of an instance were a top end ($1000+) gun safe was actually broken into during a robbery?

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W.E.G.
August 27, 2010, 05:24 PM
It would be hard to break into a safe during a robbery.

Might be possible during a BURGLARY.

Otherwise not to many people carrying a safe around on their daily duties.

M-Cameron
August 27, 2010, 05:37 PM
W.E.G pretty much nailed it......

during your average snatch and grab home break-in.....it would be nearly impossible for a few thugs to get into a modern, quality gun safe.....

but if someone broke in with the intent to break into the safe....with a blowtorch, crowbar, and a sledge hammer......my guess is it would take someone(s) a good hour and a half(at minimum) to get into one

russ69
August 27, 2010, 05:48 PM
A`safe is effective because most bad guys are just looking for something that they can grab and sell for drugs. This is the most common scenario. On the other hand a pro can defeat your gun safe in about five minutes but it's a rare occurrence. (by the way they don't break into a safe, they burn through it).

Thanx, Russ

rcmodel
August 27, 2010, 05:54 PM
Only one I have heard of personally happened to a FFL friend of mine.

But they didn't break into his safe.

They just stole two of them clear full of guns and hauled them off to parts unknown.
One was later found opened & empty in a roadside lake near here.
The other one was never recovered.

rc

Lightning12
August 27, 2010, 05:57 PM
First, we would need to agree on what a top end gun safe consists of. $1000 does not in any way guarantee you the security you might think. Much of the weight and cost of typical gun store/department store safes goes into fireproofing (sheet-rock) This does nothing to add to the resistance to forcible opening.

Read up on the specifics of the metal thicknesses and locking mechanisms used for gun safes.

Then go to youtube and look for videos along the lines of gun safe break-in etc. I looked at some a couple years back. It took two guys about 2-3 minutes to break into a large safe using nothing but a pry bar.

There are good safes out there. The one I remember the clearest that I might have been able to afford was called Sturdy Safe Co. Of course, there's also Ft. Knox, but they are quite expensive.

Chaz

M-Cameron
August 27, 2010, 06:04 PM
Read up on the specifics of the metal thicknesses and locking mechanisms used for gun safes.

Then go to youtube and look for videos along the lines of gun safe break-in etc. I looked at some a couple years back. It took two guys about 2-3 minutes to break into a large safe using nothing but a pry bar.

There are good safes out there. The one I remember the clearest that I might have been able to afford was called Sturdy Safe Co. Of course, there's also Ft. Knox, but they are quite expensive.

Chaz

im not saying it didnt happen.....but youtube videos are not my go to choice for reliable information.....because anyone with a camera and some software can make 2 hrs of work look like 2 min. of work pretty easily

Guns and more
August 27, 2010, 07:02 PM
Does anyone know of an instance were a top end ($1000+) gun safe was actually broken into during a robbery?
I'm sure it happens. Why would a professional want to target my house?
I'm very careful who knows, who gets in, who is allowed to see the safe (no one) Who has seen it open. (no one).

W.E.G.
August 27, 2010, 07:09 PM
I've seen the YouTube vid.

Some burglars are that good.
Like maybe 0.0001%

The rest are kids and crack-heads.
They wouldn't be able to do what the guys in the YouTube vid did if you gave them written instructions and coaching.

jakeiscrazy
August 27, 2010, 07:17 PM
Well the best way to keep things safe(pun intended) is to us a multi layered system. Any safe can be cracked with the right amount of time. So adding an alarm system will greatly reduce the time a criminal has. Also having good neighbors that notice things helps too. So, with a good safe, good alarm system, and good neighbors you are going to be pretty tight. Everything can fail but the chance is much slimmer.

Owen Sparks
August 27, 2010, 07:17 PM
First of all, don't broadcast the fact that you have a lot of guns.

EAJ
August 27, 2010, 07:32 PM
First of all, don't broadcast the fact that you have a lot of guns.

+1, or a safe, which suggests that you have something VALUABLE to protect. Learn how to keep a secret. :)

oneounceload
August 27, 2010, 08:01 PM
but if someone broke in with the intent to break into the safe....with a blowtorch, crowbar, and a sledge hammer......my guess is it would take someone(s) a good hour and a half(at minimum) to get into one

Gun "safes" are not in the eyes of the insurance industry, they are "Residential Security Containers", and not as reliable as "T" rated safes. "T" rated safes are usually 15 or 30 minute rated. A good sledge hammer on the corner can shatter the weld and have the RSC fall apart. A drill bit can go through the typical RSC wall in about 30 seconds (I did it to allow a golden rod dehumidifier cord to go through). My National Security brand is now owned by Liberty and considered one of their premier lines. Cheaper Chinese-made safes are even easier to break into. Most RSC's can easily be handled and removed by crooks with the typical handtruck found at Sam's or Costco. What you're protecting against is the typical teenager looking for a quick smash and grab for drug money

IMTHDUKE
August 27, 2010, 09:47 PM
I hope for their sake no one breaks into my safe.....

I store this guy in there......





http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996536311.jpg

But, I do have a very big dog with a very bad attitude toward strangers and he thinks the safe belongs to him. I don't tell him different:D

gdesloge
August 27, 2010, 10:18 PM
I recall reading recently about burglars who simply dragged the entire, unopened safe out of the house in order to drive away with it. Does that count?

gd

omegaflame
August 27, 2010, 10:57 PM
I recall reading recently about burglars who simply dragged the entire, unopened safe out of the house in order to drive away with it. Does that count?

gd You're supposed to bolt them to the floor. Technically to concrete and in such a way they can't get a prybar under it.

gdesloge
August 27, 2010, 11:15 PM
Yes, that makes sense to me. Unfortunately, I believe that the homeowner did not.

I will try to find the story.

gd

gdesloge
August 27, 2010, 11:27 PM
This wasn't the story I had in mind, but it will do, I suppose.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22184362/detail.html

gd

fireman 9731
August 27, 2010, 11:37 PM
Here is the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M

rtpzwms
August 27, 2010, 11:58 PM
I had a conversation with a buddy that now lives in upper NY state. He was a locksmith for several years and specialized in safes. My question to him was a simple one how long would it take him to break into my safe. His reply was interesting. He stated that within 2 hours he could open and repair the safe so it would be almost impossible for someone to tell that he had opened it. I know that he has opened bank vaults and SD boxes for banks in the past and he is faster into my car without a key than I am with the key. So I tend to trust what he is telling me.

Now he is a practiced professional that did this for a living for many years. But he was willing to state the repair of the safe would be accomplished as well. Now I wonder how fast he could get in without worrying about the final condition of the safe. :what:

Shadow 7D
August 28, 2010, 01:56 AM
You said safe right, now ask him about a RSC, because the one I liked was a rebranded Chinese safe that was dropped off a forklift, and just popped open, hell you can open a gun vault type box by just banging it.

SO, don't believe youtube, do you home work, and then you will realize that most of the Youtube stuff has truth behind it.

smhbbag1
August 28, 2010, 02:02 AM
I've never heard of a gun safe break-in.

They're usually as reliable as they're going to get, straight out of the box.

Palehorseman
August 28, 2010, 02:09 AM
Ditto. I have a portable oxy-acetylene rig in the garage, but the cutting torch is in the safe with my guns, no call for helping the perps.

Azb
August 28, 2010, 09:10 AM
Ditto. I have a portable oxy-acetylene rig in the garage, but the cutting torch is in the safe with my guns, no call for helping the perps.

Smart man. I've seen a couple break ins where the thieves used the homeowner's tools to facilitate the robbery. And a lot of cases where the thieves used the homeowner's truck to haul stuff away. Lock the car keys up too.

Az

wishin
August 28, 2010, 09:23 AM
The question puts me in mind of the TV commercial where the guy posts his social security number for the world to see, while marketing his identity security product. I'm not familiar with gun safe warranties, but I'll bet none of them guarantee their product to this degree.

Given enough time, they can all be breached with the proper tools.

Justin Holder
August 28, 2010, 10:38 AM
Still NO accounts of a gun safe break in during a burglary.

I hear the rumors that "all safes can be cracked", but wheres the proof it's been done?

And no, hauling the whole safe away doesn't count, they should all be bolted down.

I say a quality gun safe is pretty darn safe 99.9% of the time.

Kentucky_Rifleman
August 28, 2010, 11:23 AM
The question puts me in mind of the TV commercial where the guy posts his social security number for the world to see, while marketing his identity security product. I'm not familiar with gun safe warranties, but I'll bet none of them guarantee their product to this degree.

You don't see that jackass giving out his SSN anymore, because he got his identity jacked over 10 times, in spite of his company's efforts to keep it from happening.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/05/lifelock-identity-theft

I love irony. :D
KR

M-Cameron
August 28, 2010, 11:29 AM
I hear the rumors that "all safes can be cracked", but wheres the proof it's been done?


that is actually true.....since nothing can ever be made "perfect" ,the sheer fact that it is a mechanical device means that they all have mechanical faults that can be exploited...

...what it comes down to is skill and time.......do you have the skills necessary and do you have enough time to do it.....

the good thing is, it takes a safe cracker to crack a safe....and for the most part they are not interested in stealing your stuff....

but for your average thug looking to make a quick buck......i really wouldnt worry too hard.

Justin Holder
August 28, 2010, 11:34 AM
That's my point. How many lock smiths are out robbing peoples homes?

merlinfire
August 28, 2010, 11:43 AM
I hear that to properly "break in" a safe, you have to put guns and and take them back out about 10 times, properly lubing the guns each time and don't forget to swab out the inside of the safe between guns.

In all seriousness, a LOT of getting guns stolen is letting the wrong people know, most thefts are done by someone who knows the victim. Short of building a bunker for your guns, you just have to do the best you can do and don't put signs in your yard or bumper stickers on your car proclaiming you are a proud smith and wesson owner or whatever.

Gotta be careful who you tell about what you've got.

Shadow 7D
August 28, 2010, 02:15 PM
The only reason you don't hear of 'gun safe break ins' is because you haven't bothered looking. A RSC can be taken out quickly, by a kid or a crack head, with a sledge or even a plain ax to just cut through the metal, after all, it is just sheet metal we are talking about.

MikeNice
August 28, 2010, 03:11 PM
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4018140

Looks like all it takes is a good drill to get through the side.

http://www.sturdysafe.com/gaugethicknesswar.htm

Actual safes that were broken in to during a burglary. Seems all it takes is a diamond tipped saw blade, a pry bar, and patience. That or a really good fire axe.

Mikefln
August 28, 2010, 03:17 PM
So what brands are real safes and not RSC? If I want a safe for fire safety and theft safety what brands should I look at? Right now I have a Liberty that is serving me well (i.e never had a fire or a break in- but my 3 year old hasn't been able to get in yet). If I want to upgrade (I need a bigger size safe) who should I look at and where do I buy them since big box stores don't sell them?

Lincoln4
August 28, 2010, 03:28 PM
In nearly 18 years taking reports, I've never seen or heard of someone getting into one. I'm sure it does happen, but not too often. Of all the stolen guns reports I've taken, not a one was taken from a gunsafe. Let's face it, most burglaries do involve people just looking for stuff that they can sell cheaply, with little effort involved in taking it... A $1000 safe is well worth the money IMHO...

gun guy
August 28, 2010, 03:29 PM
The only safe break in I have seen, was a Sales video at a gun show, for Their model.
The sales pitch showed to huge lumberjack like guys, using a double bladed axe, a huge driving hammer, and a steel wedge. The first thing they did, was to tip over the competitors safe, and proceed to peel either the top, or back, of each selected safe. One of the key points of the "better" safe, was the ability to bolt it to the floor/concrete, with their anchor kit (an option available for a bit more). This prevented the actors, from getting to the back and top as they did with the other safes. Hey, it was a sales film, not a documentary. Eventually they did give the back a couple of half hearted wacks to show it was built better than brand x or w. In my opinion, if you bought a few dollars worth of hardware, and bolted down your safe, you would have about the same level of protection, as spending the big money, on the "better" model.

Kentucky_Rifleman
August 28, 2010, 06:47 PM
Still NO accounts of a gun safe break in during a burglary.

And you may well not find any first-hand accounts, only vague, second or third person incidents. "A friend of my nephew who lives out west..."

As has been noted before, most burglars are looking for a quick profit, usually to buy drugs. They simply can't open the safes or they won't bother trying, taking loose items and leaving instead.

I personally thwarted a burglary attempt several years ago by having my guns well hidden. I won't explain how, but it wasn't the usual master bedroom/closet routine. The burglar was a former friend who KNEW I had guns in the house and was actively looking for them. The only two he found were the HD guns I stupidly didn't tuck away before I left for work.

I learned two valuable lessons from this:

1. Keep my mouth shut about what I own or don't.

2. Even a cheap safe is better than no safe. A cheap, welded sheet-metal cabinet would have been enough to stop this particular burglar.

Any safe can be defeated - whether burned, cut, blown, drilled, punched, whatever - and anyone with enough on the ball to break a decent safe will be after bigger fish than the handful of guns I own.

The best protection? Inaccessibility of your property to vehicles. If the burglar can't conveniently park curbside or in your driveway to shorten his trips hauling out your possessions, he'll likely pass you by. It's good news for those of us in the boondocks at the end of long driveways with family nearby or those of us in town with no driveway at all and retired neighbors.

KR

Averageman
August 28, 2010, 07:04 PM
is the burglars friend and enemy.
The longer it takes the more likely they are to skip a safe and go to a jewelry box and your sock drawer for goodies.
An alarm, a dog and nosy neighbors make them nervous. Your safe will be well beyond most burglars capabilities if secured to the wall and floor.
At BEST they have 20 minutes.
Make your safe pass the 20 minute test and the smash and grab guys wont touch it beyond a shake and an attempt to pry it open.
They have 3 flat screen TV's, your wifes jewelry, your Harley and whatever they can sack and move quickly to move.
Unless someone knows you have a gun collection, they wont come prepared to get it if you have a 1000 dollar safe.

oneounceload
August 28, 2010, 07:12 PM
Look at AMSEC, (the USA-made ones) among similar high-end brands. Current fire protection id two pieces of thin sheet metal with two pieces of drywall in between - they count that as the thickness of the safe. Better safes use poured in place concrete slurry with steel rebar as the fire and boring protection - it also adds a LOT of weight and protection

1911Tuner
August 28, 2010, 07:22 PM
Gun safes...Residential Security Containers...are good insurance against the amateur, basing that on the statistical average of delaying a crook for 5 minutes and he'll go somewhere else.

That's an average, mind you. Some aren't so easily disuaded.

For a professional...or even a talented amateur...about 5-6 minutes is all that he needs to open it. The time will vary from one brand to another, of course...with the most time required of the really high-end safes, but they're not all that hard to defeat if one is both determined to do so, and understands how they lock.

Werewolf
August 29, 2010, 10:35 AM
Here is the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M
I'd like to see 'em do that with a safe (even a well constructed RSC) when it's bolted into concrete and has two walls next to it.

they'd probably eventually get it open but not in the 1:44 they did in the video.

then there's the spokesman's claim that finding the thing in the first place and taking out everything and loading it up would just add a single minute...

He's no better than than those he derides as hawking worthless wares.

Geno
August 29, 2010, 11:11 AM
Back when I was a high school principal, someone decided to break-into our home while I was at school. They took computers, software, games, and half-empty bottles of Boodles and Tanqueray. :cool: That told me who dun-did it. HS kids. An adult would not likely steal a half-empty booze bottle.

Back to the story. They tried but couldn't make-off with the small security box we had...fire-resistant box, about 20" X 20", and weighed about 100 pounds. These were smash and grab punk kids.

When I got back to the school, I cross-referenced three databases:

attendance
driving permits
discipline

Within 23 hours, I detained them at the school, had their car impounded by the police and suggested an "inventory search". The police opened the 17-year-old car trunk. They found alcohol, and closed it up to wait for a criminal warrant for search...can you say busted?!

A "safe" is safe for smash and grab...that's about it. A theft from any level security safe/vault only requires appropriate quantity of the three following ingredients:

motive
time
opportunity

Secure them and insure them.

Geno

MinnMooney
August 29, 2010, 11:14 AM
but if someone broke in with the intent to break into the safe....with a blowtorch, crowbar, and a sledge hammer......my guess is it would take someone(s) a good hour and a half(at minimum) to get into one

You obviously haven't seen the dozens of YouTube videos of two chowderheads with a short crowbar and a long prybar getting into midpriced safes in anywhere from 50 seconds to a couple of minutes. These are big-box store safes like Liberty, Cannon and the ilk costing from $800-$1500.

That newly introduced round safe was the only one tested that no one could get into. In the end there were about 8 guys working on it but still couldn't gain entry.

Keb
August 29, 2010, 11:19 AM
Homebuilding contractors got my el-cheapo Homak using my own crowbar.

I have better safes now, and the crowbar is in with the rifles.

SaxonPig
August 29, 2010, 11:52 AM
Twice.

First time the safe was in the garage... next to the oxy-acetylene tanks with cutting tip installed. Bad planning. Crooks cut one corner off the safe and pulled out about half the guns (what they reach by reaching in the hole).

Second time the door was peeled down with a 4' crow-bar. Again, it was the owner's tool that was used.

The lesson is don't provide tools to crooks.

Ky Larry
August 29, 2010, 03:15 PM
If you have something a professional thief wants bad enough, he'll get it. Fortunately, pro's are very rare. If you make an amature thief have to do some work, he'll give up and look for easier pickings.

a1abdj
August 29, 2010, 11:27 PM
Yes, gun safes are broken into. No, it isn't really that common. There is nothing about the majority of gun safes that will slow down anybody that's half way motivated. Many of the burglaries and attempted burglaries involve the homeowner's tools.

$1,000 gun safes aren't much more secure than $500 gun safes. It doesn't take a cutting torch, special equipment, or a professional safe cracker to get into one in a matter of a few minutes.

Keep in mind that safes are your last line of defense, and most are never really "used". You'll never know how good your safe is until it's burglarized or burned, just like you'll never know how good your seatbelt is until you've been in an accident.

lonegunman
August 29, 2010, 11:28 PM
About fifty miles from me there was a HUGE gun theft a couple of weeks ago. About 200 guns, many rare and desirable M1 Garands, an 03 with a working Pederson Device, some handguns of real historical value and all sorts of expensive stuff.

Did he have a gun safe? I'd hope he had a lot more than one since he lost a massive collection. He also had a lot of people who knew about his collection and lived on acreage so the scumbags had a way to avoid neighbors.

If you have $15,000 dollars in firearms you should be willing to spend 10% on a decent safe, lock it in a secure room and buy some insurance as well.

It kills me to listen to someone on this and any other board, piss and moan about buying something other than some crap quality Wal-Mart or Cabela's stamped metal box. Buy steel, real plate steel not stamped garbage with drywall liners and bolt the thing down. Save room inside for the tips to your torch and your prybars too.

If you spent $25,000 on a car or truck you buy insurance, no doubt it costs you between $4,000 and $5,000 to keep full coverage on a decent car for five to seven years. If you do not wreck that money is simply gone and that truck is worth 50% of it's new value.

You can buy a serious gun safe for $2,500 and spend a hundred dollars a year insuring a $25,000 gun collection. In five to seven years the value of most of it has remained stable or risen and the safe is still burglar proof.

If you want to retain your guns you need a decent safe, a shut mouth and some friends who can keep themselves from blabbing about your stuff to idiots and some good insurance. It might not take a "pro" to get your safe, it might take two tweakers with a hand truck and a pickup to load your wally world box out of your garage in five minutes flat. That's when insurance comes in handy.

leadcounsel
August 29, 2010, 11:46 PM
Put a few pounds of gunpowder in your safe and label the outside of the safe with a warning not to use a torch. They could get a nasty surprise.

lonegunman
August 30, 2010, 12:22 AM
As far as safe break-in's, I know of two. Both involved older gents who left their homes on extended vacations with their wives. On both the scumbags found the tools they needed to break-in on site and had nothing but time on their hands.

To me this indictated that whomever they had "watching" their houses was also part of the crime. I think an alarm system is a better way to go than Block-Watch, notifying the local PD or asking a scrub neighbor to check on the place.

harmonic
August 30, 2010, 12:39 AM
Any Harry homeowner type safe can be broken into if the thief has enough time. If the perp knows you'll be gone for a few hours, for most safes all he'll need is a box of masonry blades and circular saw.

A buddy sells gun safes for a living. He said it can be done in about thirty minutes for most safes assuming the perp goes through the side. The thickest steel is the door. Sides and back are considerably thinner.

Now, if the safe isn't bolted, they can just wheel the whole thing out. An unsecured safe is just an expensive gun case.

I even remember in one case where the safe was stored in the line of sight of a exterior doorway. The thief hooked the safe to his truck and not only stole the safe, but took the door jamb out too.

The best thing is just not let anybody know you've got guns.

Owen Sparks
August 30, 2010, 02:03 AM
If you are going to spend big bucks on a safe, why not spend a few hundred more to conceal it? Put it in a closet with a false back or in a recess in the wall covered by a book case. Leaving it sitting out makes an attractive target. If theives don't see it they won't try to defeat it. The safest "safe" I ever saw was made from the shell of a gutted water heater. It contained a lazy susan type gun rack. It was in the basement of a guy who owned a plumbing business. He even had phony pipes attatched to it and was totally believable. No thief has enough time to tale your water heater apart nor would he think to, especially if it has a bunch of junk like boxes ofChristmas decorations stacked up around it.

RevNate
August 30, 2010, 02:14 AM
So what brands are real safes and not RSC? If I want a safe for fire safety and theft safety what brands should I look at? Right now I have a Liberty that is serving me well (i.e never had a fire or a break in- but my 3 year old hasn't been able to get in yet). If I want to upgrade (I need a bigger size safe) who should I look at and where do I buy them since big box stores don't sell them?
AMSEC TL-30 (http://www.amsecusa.com/Gun_Safes/HS_Series_Gun_Safes/)

Bruno2
August 30, 2010, 02:17 AM
Go to youtube and do a search for "security on sale". Then you can watch all related videos. Pretty much an eye opener. I was mad as heck after watching it. However if you safe is bolted to the floor and turned in a fashion to where the side of the door that opens is against the wall its next to impossible to get a prybay in it to open it. Just bolting it down will keep the thieves from running off with it , but, it also holds it in place so it can be pryed open while standing.

heeler
August 30, 2010, 08:47 AM
Justin,if you google it you will see several pictures or read first hand accounts of people breaking into or at least attempting to break into someones gun safe.
I have seen a few at safe dealerships myself.
Last year the local Ft.Knox dealer had a 12 gauge Cannon Patriot safe that had the back hacked open.
If you go over to Liberty's web site you will see a Liberty Presidential 50 that was worked over pretty good for alledgedly five hours with various hand tools without success.
I read over at another gun forum where a guy was out of town for the weekend when thieves struck his home and worked over his Browning Medallion without getting into it.
As has been mentioned if they have time and some good tools they can eventually get in.
But when I was doing a lot of research on gun safes before finally buying my Amsec BF 66X36 I did notice that practically everyone of them that had been breeched were 12 gauge bodied safes with flimsy composite doors.
Coincidence??
I dont think so.
Fortunately for those of us that are using a gun safe for firearm storage is the fact that when these burglars hit your home they are more times than not druggie types looking for a quick in and out and grab the things that are not nailed down such as your flat screen T.V.,your wifes jewelery,video and music equipment,etc.
Get a quality 10 gauge or better yet 3/16th of an inch bodied safe,bolt it solidly down and keep quite about it and chances are if you are unfortunate enough to have your home hit it is a very good possibility that the gun safe will hold the line and keep your goods safe.

a1abdj
August 30, 2010, 09:06 AM
If you go over to Liberty's web site you will see a Liberty Presidential 50 that was worked over pretty good for alledgedly five hours with various hand tools without success.


This may be true, but only if those attacking the safe were a gang of 5 year olds, or druggies so high that they couldn't stand up straight.

Keep in mind that a real safe using steel plate, with a 15 minute burglary rating, would have a 1" solid plate body. So what magic dust is Liberty sprinkling on their steel that would make a 3/16" plate last 5 hours, when everybody else can only make their 1" plate last 15 to 30 minutes?

I know that 1" plate will actually stop somebody for much longer than 15 to 30 minutes, but you get the idea.

heeler
August 30, 2010, 09:34 AM
a1abdj,when I saw that on Liberty's web site the other day it was because a guy here at work was thinking about ordering a Presidential due to their advertisement alone on that safe.
More so the guy is an engineer and I told him to look at other gun safes that I am pretty sure are stronger and lower in price than that Presidential.
His mind I think is made up.
If you do go over there and look at that safe can you please explain just exactly what is so special or innovative about Liberty's new Monster Mech locking mechanism is??

a1abdj
August 30, 2010, 10:22 AM
what is so special or innovative about Liberty's new Monster Mech locking mechanism is??

Fewer warranty claims. Their old design wasn't as robust and you would have the occasional owner who would strong arm it and cause problems. I haven't had to do any warranty work on the new design. That speaks volumes, as people tend to be rough on their safes.

Owen Sparks
August 30, 2010, 03:43 PM
I saw a great hiding place in the basement of a house that was up for sale in Atlanta. There had obviously been a safe there that had been removed by a previous owner. You could plainly see 4 anchor holes where it was bolted to the floor inside a recess with poured concrete walls on all sides. The owner kept the front of the safe concealed by a refrigerator that was a size bigger than the hole. Even a carefull observer would not suspect anything. You would have to move the refrigerator to see the safe and even if a thief found it, he could not move it or tip it over and would have to try to break in through the door. This was probably designed when the house was built but it had changed hands several times since then so I don't know the full story.

CoRoMo
August 30, 2010, 04:02 PM
I hear the rumors that "all safes can be cracked", but wheres the proof it's been done?
Okay, here's what I can offer. I realize that since I can't show you the safe or a video of this happening, this is no proof whatsoever. In that regard, you'll never get the proof you're looking for.

One of my employees is a very handy guy. He was getting home one day when his neighbor came out and told him that he had lost the key or combo to his safe. So my guy grabs one of his power tools and heads for the neighbor's safe. He told me that it only took him a matter of seconds and the safe was wide open.

Not a break-in. Not a burglary. Just a case where a guy cut open a locked safe with a common power tool.

rtpzwms
August 30, 2010, 04:30 PM
Posted by Justin Holder
And no, hauling the whole safe away doesn't count, they should all be bolted down.

Why not? Anyone watch "COPS" they have a few snatch and grab ATMs! I went to a bank about a year ago to get some money from the ATM to find it had been stolen the night before. Ripped right off the concrete pad! The bolts or what were left was broken off near the level of the concrete. The good new was the bank had a video of the whole thing. :banghead::cuss:

Remember they won't give your home the loving care you do. A chain attached to the bumper of a heavy duty pickup and your safe will go through the wall if they want it badly! I don't think a few bolts will stop them. And I'm giving you credit for installing them properly so they will hold to their maximum strength. I'm also going to give the contractor credit for using the correct concrete and doing the job properly (anyone seen concrete flake?).

Don't get me wrong I believe that most won't bother with a safe and I also believe that it is the most reasonable security that most can afford (someone is ALWAYS an exception, I am not the exception).

M-Cameron
August 30, 2010, 05:30 PM
its actually hearing stories like these that make me thankful the previous owners of my house were as paranoid as they were......

....they kindly left behind a safe....hidden inside another safe......cemented into the wall.......hidden behind a false wall......

you can fit approx. 5 handguns inside with some room to spare...

....and if you are able to break into it......you deserve to take my stuff.

Owen Sparks
August 30, 2010, 09:17 PM
I am becoming convinced that concealment is more important than strength. It does not matter how weak your safe door is if the thief never finds it. False walls, hollow spaces behind phony breaker boxes and fake water heaters will never be suspected to contain valuables. A big gun safe sitting out in the open is an obvious target. A secret closet behind the refrigerator will never be found.

a1abdj
August 30, 2010, 09:23 PM
I am becoming convinced that concealment is more important than strength.

For over 100 years many banks have made their vaults the showcase of the bank lobby. Many jewelers, smaller banks, etc, have placed their safes directly in the front window of their business. Granted this allowed all passing by to make sure nobody was breaking into the safe, but in the past, these were the proper safe for the job. Consider it a dare to any would be thief thinking about taking it on.

Concealment serves a purpose. If they can't find it, they can't take it. A proper safe also serves a purpose. It keeps bad guys out. If you have one, you don't need the other.

Bruno2
August 30, 2010, 10:55 PM
My house got burglarized back in january. I was in St. Louis for the weekend . The cops called me up there and gave me the news. I had 2 Ruger 10/22's stolen b/c I left them outside of the safe:mad:. They didnt get in my safe , but , had some tools back there like they were planning on trying it. The thieves were just kids not adults. A few months later I saw a story on the news about a burglary where they hauled the guys gun safe off . Mine is anchored to the floor and studs in the wall. They wont haul it off. However I thought my safe was nice , but , its a cheaply made safe. Anybody with some prybars could get in it if determined.

CHEVELLE427
August 30, 2010, 11:07 PM
don't remember the brands , but someone had a show on about how to get in a gun safe some looked to be top of the line ( about 2 years ago, )

took them (2 people) to turn it over as it was not bolted down,
they used a crow bar a sledge hammer and a 5 foot bar to pry the door open. after the sides bent out the pins didn't help around the door any longer.

what i got out of it was to BOLT THE SAFE DOWN i cant see them getting in it while it is standing up right.

me , i remodeled my 3rd house 15 years ago and closed the garage in to make a bedroom, i made a false wall with coat hook pegs on the closet side were 1 would UN screw so the door would open, you could not see the outline as it was the same size as the paneling and the hinge was on the inside, i could put 10-12 long guns and 10-15 hand guns in there and no one could tell.

im only saying this now as i do not own that house any longer---:neener:

o Unforgiven o
August 30, 2010, 11:34 PM
I hear the rumors that "all safes can be cracked", but wheres the proof it's been done?

All safes have one thing in common, a a mechanical mechanism with the sole purpose of allowing the opening of said safe. If you can open your safe, given enough time someone else can too.

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