The best country to live in for gun ownership?


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TheOtherOne
December 11, 2003, 12:59 PM
Everyone always asks about states, but what about countries? Where do people go when they get fed up with the legal restriction of freedoms in America or is this as good as it gets?

What country would be the best place to live as far as having the fewest laws/restrictions on gun ownership along with not being some third world dump (i.e. a place with a decent economy where you can still make a good living)?

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geekWithA.45
December 11, 2003, 01:53 PM
For practical purposes, if all you want is to have the biggest, baddest, fully automatic firearm, any 3rd world dump will do.

If you want to live in a place that has practical acknowledgement of RKBA, there are several, but they all come with the big asterisk that your RKBA is a privilege at the whim of the state.

If you want to live in a place whose very foundation and fiber acknowledges the pre-existing human right of being armed, then it's the good old U. S. of A, despite the current and temporary mess.

foghornl
December 11, 2003, 02:43 PM
Best country for RKBA, etc....

Your own private island.

G1FAL
December 11, 2003, 02:47 PM
Probably just about any country in Africa, aside from Egypt, Libya, and South Africa.

Unfortunately, those countries that would be good to live in as far as owning firearms is concerned wouldnt be good for almost anything else, from sanitation to medical care, education, roads, etc.

But at least the gov would probably leave you alone. Unless for some reason they decided their tribe didnt like you.

clubsoda22
December 11, 2003, 02:47 PM
I think THR should get togeather and buy a 100sq. ft island in the middle of the pacific. We can import any gun we want to it and we'll all be "Ambassadors to the United States." Therefore having diplomatic immunity, we may keep the guns in our embassies (houses) in the US. We'll all have nationwide CCW too.

Oleg gets my nomination for president.

G1FAL
December 11, 2003, 02:49 PM
Maybe you meant 100 sq. MILES? A 100 sq. ft. island would probably be way too small. And chances are you'd be underwater at high tide. ;)

longeyes
December 11, 2003, 03:15 PM
The good news is you're already living in it.

The bad news is it's disappearing fast.

carpettbaggerr
December 11, 2003, 07:39 PM
What about Switzerland?

Mark Tyson
December 11, 2003, 08:15 PM
As I understand it:

Actually some of the Danish countries allow one to get silencers and automatic weapons, albeit there is lisencing and registration. Handguns are more difficult to obtain. So if collecting long guns is your focus, that could be the place.

Similar deal for New Zealand, though forget about carrying a gun. Doubt you'd need it there though.

igor
December 11, 2003, 08:28 PM
some of the Danish countries

Do you wish to elaborate on that? :D :banghead: :scrutiny: :p

Mark Tyson
December 11, 2003, 08:50 PM
Oops, I meant Nordic countries. Noway, Finland, Sweden

ctdonath
December 11, 2003, 09:03 PM
Swiss RKBA freedoms do not extend to non-citizens...and obtaining Swiss citizenship is nearly impossible.

Only in the USA is RKBA formally and fundamentally in place.

igor
December 11, 2003, 09:29 PM
Denmark is one of them too... and the Färö Islands.

There is no RKBA but a need-to-have permit & licencing system up here. No CCW either, except in Sweden, but with even harder need-to-have permits. Am not sure about Norway and Denmark... I believe Denmark also has some "political" gun restrictions, anyone?

edit to add in response to M.T.: there is no difference between long guns and handguns, though. The "need" you need to establish for any gun is any "legitimate" use for that type of a gun. For long guns, you say "hunting" or "target competition" or "military reserve training". For small caliber handguns you say "target practice", for bigger ones "hunting", "IPSC", "target competition", "mil. reserve training" etc.

All of this, obviously, has zilch to do with RKBA. No such thing. It does have everything to do with... say... coping with an intrusive social democratic state engine that strives for an illusion of control. I can live with that, especially as there's no turning back the clock, and as there is a very real, hands-on possibility to influence the political discussion and future legislation.

OC spray also subject to licencing, for that "CCW" is possible, need to prove need as well.

Full auto possible but lots of licencing hoops to jump (collector status etc. ). Practically very, very rare. Suppressors nowadays even recommended, no cosmetic bans, no mag limitations.

Scandinavian or Nordic life as such is very safe, though. There are no ghettos or such areas where a white woman couldn't go by herself safely any time of the day. Violent crime happens within subcultures of alcoholics and other addicts and is very predictable and easily avoidable. Home invasions? None. Carjackings? Neither. Armed robberies? Very rare. Unregistered firearms in criminal use? Numerous.

That will become a problem here in Finland shortly, now that Estonia will become member of the EU and the border will open totally. Our homes are pretty well armed already, but we'll see how the need for CCW will develop. We trust in the Nordic way of political discussion and democratic process, though: I don't believe for a moment that a rise in violent crime that targets "normal" people will lead to gun bans.

As to the topic, I believe that the top three in the world would look like:

1. Switzerland
2. U.S. "shall-issue" states
3. any of Norway, Sweden or Finland

Pawcatch
December 12, 2003, 09:36 AM
No handguns and semi-auto long guns are only for professional hunters,but non-semi auto long guns can be had without any type of permit.
Its also pretty easy to get a permit to bring a long gun into Greenland too.

www.paamiut.gl/ukkomgen.htm

www.dpc.dk/Res&Log/ProjectPlanner/Papers/Legislation/Firearms.html

[url]www.dpc.dk/Res&Log/ProjectPlanner/Safety/Wildlife2.html#firearms

bvmjethead
December 12, 2003, 10:24 AM
Mike,

You of all people should know

RKBA is not about a question of "need".

roscoe
December 12, 2003, 12:43 PM
Bolivia and Paraguay allow most anybody to buy guns anytime. Even foreigners can buy guns in Paraguay.

longeyes
December 12, 2003, 03:09 PM
Anybody here familiar with the situation in Costa Rica?

Sam Adams
December 12, 2003, 04:38 PM
Can tourists buy in Paraguay? Not that there's really much that I'm yearning to see there, but it would be kind of neat to get off the plane, buy a gun and carry it around everywhere, and then sell it before going home.

Of course, if Paraguay is a friendly enough country (gun-wise) it might not be a bad precaution to buy a home there (how expensive could it be?) and have it stocked with some interesting items in case the SHTF up here and one must go on an extended vacation.

Ala Dan
December 12, 2003, 06:01 PM
Another vote for Switzerland !:D

Males must participate in the military; therefore
they are allowed to keep fully automatic assault rifles
such as the SIG 550 in their homes. :uhoh: :)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Hurakan
December 12, 2003, 07:21 PM
If by best, you mean biggest arsenal, I think your best bet would be the breakaway republic of Transdniester

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41921-2003Dec6.html

"When the Soviet army withdrew from this corner of Eastern Europe, the weapons were deposited into an arsenal of stupefying proportions. In fortified bunkers are stored 50,000 tons of aging artillery shells, mines and rockets, enough to fill 2,500 boxcars. "

I'd bet the ammo is cheaper than WalMart's too.

tiberius
December 12, 2003, 07:29 PM
Any first had reports on the Swiss situation? I've heard about the "fact" that they all have to qualify with their service rifle to fulfill citizenship requirements and such, but I don’t know what the actual situation is, so to speak.

The reason I ask for first hand reports is because I thought (and hear many others offer the same idea) that Israelis could pretty much carry and own whatever they wanted, but Microbalrog certainly states that this is not the real case.

longeyes
December 12, 2003, 08:01 PM
You'll love Paraguay. Appaently the Al-Qaeda are fond of it too.

c_yeager
December 13, 2003, 05:31 AM
Im going to go against the grain here and say that for all practical purposes the US is the "best" country for gun ownership. Sure, you can legally get "cooler" stuff in third world countries BUT, one gets a little tired of AK's and 50 year old military surplus. And in the all the European countries that allow civilian ownership they tend to have severe permit requirments and the rights ARE at the whim of the state. In no other nation do you have such a significant PROTECTION of the RKBA combined with the economic ability to obtain a variety of different firearms for no better reason than the desire to do so.

PrudentGT
December 13, 2003, 05:36 AM
Modern swiss gun laws are sort of odd. They had a flurry of anti-gun legislation go through a few years ago, and they're under constant pressure from the EU to tighten things up even further; so even though males are issued service rifles at 22, they've got some wacky restrictions, like no semi-jacketed ammo, tracers, or (I think) steel-core stuff. I'm pretty sure they've got strict import restrictions, too, and I suspect they're left over from the middle of the last century, because although AUGs, ARs (mostly from DPMS??), and of course Sig 550s are easily had, most of the 'HK-ish' stuff I've seen usually consists of reproductions by swiss firms. No restrictions on barrel length for long arms.

Acquiring a full-auto weapon *other* than the one you're issued requires a permit ('seirefeuerbewilligung') issued by the canton. As in the united states, some cantons are a bit more liberal with such permits. I imagine they hand them out like candy if you live in the middle of nowhere, but enthusiasts living in downtown Geneva are probably out of luck. It's just a hunch but I bet the French-speaking regions are probably most restrictive.

As mentioned before you can forget about emigrating, although I think the process is a lot easier if you're *retiring* there.

Take all of the above with a grain of salt; my German's not what it used to be and wading through government regulations in a language other than your mother tongue is about as much fun as it sounds. I'm sure we've got members from the Helvetic Confederation that can give more details -- perhaps they'll chime in?

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