hornady ammo


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chris101973
August 30, 2010, 09:41 PM
Anybody ever have hornady critical defense 40 cal fail to fire? I ran it thru twice and nothing the primer is dented plenty deep. I have never seen this in factory ammo. Is it more common then I think it is? I was carrying this in my ccw but not anymore.

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DasFriek
August 30, 2010, 10:58 PM
Granted i cant afford to shoot tons of "real" SD ammo, Ive never had a failure like that.
One would hope the quality control would be high enough it should never happen.
Id definitely look into some Federal HST or Winchester Ranger T-series.

Full Metal Jacket
August 30, 2010, 11:28 PM
it's just as well, this ammo is nothing more than a new marketing gimmick. just another attempt to "reinvent the JHP" again. only thing is, performance is inconsistent.


get yourself some HST, ranger, or pdx1. ;) pdx1 is the easiest to find, and that's what the FBI uses.

chris101973
August 30, 2010, 11:29 PM
I can't afford to shoot it much of it either, I have not been carrying very long and this was the first box of true sd ammo I had ever bought. I emailed hornady and asked them what they where going to do about this I doubt much but I feel its worth a shot.

P30shtr
August 30, 2010, 11:31 PM
Sorry to hear that man, I run it (critical defense) in my P30(9mm) and my LCP(.380). I have fired multiple boxes through each to make sure it "runs" properly and have liked the results. Therefore its my chosen SD ammo.

"One would hope the quality control would be high enough it should never happen."-Dasfriek

They cant test every round that comes outta the factory

wrs840
August 30, 2010, 11:34 PM
Anybody ever have hornady critical defense... fail to fire?

Yes:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=539191

I'm a Hornady user with no prior complaints, and I hope that those familiar with my posts would agree that I'm not given to be a basher of any brand.

I just think this is a pretty big deal when it comes to carry-ammo.

Les

ThePunisher'sArmory
August 30, 2010, 11:46 PM
it's just as well, this ammo is nothing more than a new marketing gimmick. just another attempt to "reinvent the JHP" again. only thing is, performance is inconsistent.


Negative, This ammo has a proven guaranteed consistant expantion. Even when the BG is wearing a thick coat or clothing. I have seen this stuff tested too many times from too many different sources to believe it does not work as advertised. Now a failure to fire is very disheartening to hear. Lets hope it was limited to a small batch. I am currently using 147grn TAP 9mm in my nightsatnd gun as I can't find CD in my area. I hope I can find some soon regardless of these failures. A slap, rack, fire takes care of that.

Full Metal Jacket
August 31, 2010, 12:17 AM
orly?


a simple google search has produced all these problems with CD ammo:


http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd231/rbm86/HornadyCriticalDefense.jpg

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29891

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=248097

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1260995132/15


http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ammo-can/122657-hornady-critical-defense-ftx-115-gr-9mm.html




it's all yours, bro ;)

P30shtr
August 31, 2010, 12:50 AM
So what is that ? 50 rounds total , maybe out of, who knows, hundreds of thousands, millions of rounds produced. As I said previously,they cant test fire every round to come out the factory ya know. Do a search on some of the other popular ammo company's and I'm sure you'll be able to find the same type of thing. Unreliable, yadyadayada. Just like certain manufacturers, you'll find the same type of thing. Dig deep enough and someone will always have some **** to talk no matter the qaulity/reliability.

FMJ- any first hand experience on your part with this ammo ?

ThePunisher'sArmory
August 31, 2010, 01:07 AM
The failure to fire is a very bad problem however the top link the guy that posted the OP found that when shot in a longer barreled gun they expanded like they were suposed to. The pics posted above were out of a snubby 2". He later fired them out of a 4" and they expanded properly. Dont know why they would need a longer barrel to work properly. Maybe it has to do with the extra 2" of rifleing causing it to spin at a quicker rate. Who knows. Untill they work out the glitches i'll still use their TAP ammo. Never had a problem there.

P30shtr
August 31, 2010, 01:14 AM
"The pics posted above were out of a snubby 2". He later fired them out of a 4" and they expanded properly"-Punisher

Pretty sure it builds higher pressure and sends the bullet faster, therefore expanding the round like it should due to the higher velocity. I'm no ballistics expert but I'm sure someone will be along to clarify

wrs840
August 31, 2010, 01:23 AM
So what is that ? 50 rounds total... ...someone will always have some **** to talk no matter the qaulity/reliability... P30shtr, I think your opinion that FTX is "just great" is something you are justified in sharing. Being so dismissive of others' experiences as somehow necessarily "mis-informed" is not really adding to the discussion of whether-or-not there is a failure-to-fire history with Hornady CD FTX. Am I wrong?

Les

chris101973
August 31, 2010, 01:32 AM
I may have told you guys wrong the hollow point did not have the red plug in them. I am at work right now so I can't look at the box but I was sure it said critical defense on the box but maybe not. But regardless of what it was its still hornady. I am not sure how to post pictures on here or I would. I was not wanting to start a war on what was the best to carry I was just wondering how often this happened. Like I said I emailed them and I am looking forward to what they say.

Full Metal Jacket
August 31, 2010, 01:33 AM
So what is that ? 50 rounds total , maybe out of, who knows, hundreds of thousands, millions of rounds produced. quite a bit more than that, re-read post #8.

Do a search on some of the other popular ammo company's and I'm sure you'll be able to find the same type of thing. show us some sources where HST, Ranger, or PDX1 failed to expand, or go off.

FMJ- any first hand experience on your part with this ammo ? what's the point of your question?

.......

P30shtr
August 31, 2010, 01:35 AM
NEVER said mis-informed or "just-great" at all, just stating my experience with that ammo, Which was nothing but good as I stated. And all I did was ask others if they had experience with that ammo or they just posted crap off the internet that they happened to find without ever even firing a round of the stuff but.. you(wrs840) jumped in before dude had a chance to respond. Oh yeah Ive never had a FTF with this ammo OP, is that better

Full Metal Jacket
August 31, 2010, 01:39 AM
:confused:

P30shtr
August 31, 2010, 01:41 AM
" what's the point of your question?" FMJ

You talk **** about the round/ammo, just wondering if you have any first hand experience with it or your just reciting stuff you found on the internet about it ?

P30shtr
August 31, 2010, 01:44 AM
The thing is I could post something pertaining to Glock sucks or SIG sucks and then a million guys would read it and think its gospel ya know, just wondering what YOUR experiences are with the ammo on topic are ? Or.... you have none

Full Metal Jacket
August 31, 2010, 01:47 AM
You talk **** about the round/ammo, just wondering if you have any first hand experience with it or your just reciting stuff you found on the internet about it ?

now that's comprehensible ;)

if you so boldly dismiss the experiences of others that they have posted on these forums, why are you here? should we dismiss them, and not you?

of course we don't believe everything we hear online, but if many people are reporting the exact same issues-i tend to take notice. ;)



stay happy :)

P30shtr
August 31, 2010, 01:53 AM
I'm sorry FMJ, I'll believe everything I read internet/see on TV rather than make my decisions based on my personal experiences (sarcasm) . Yeah I guess its worth taking into account (internet hype) a little bit but... I'm happy, please dont dismiss me:neener:going to bed, we need a snoring smiley, zzzzzzzzz

ThePunisher'sArmory
August 31, 2010, 04:14 PM
Now, now everyone loosen your shincters here. Hornady is a quality company, and this is new ammo. Of cource it will have some probs. Im sure they will work it out with proper testing. Like I said I will be sticking with TAP untill the work out their primer issues. As far as expantion goes I think ill be fine as I'm firing it out of a 3.90" barrel. I still trust in Hornady.

gofastman
August 31, 2010, 04:58 PM
Negative, This ammo has a proven guaranteed consistant expantion. Even when the BG is wearing a thick coat or clothing. I have seen this stuff tested too many times from too many different sources to believe it does not work as advertised.

can anyone provide a link to a test where CD outperformed a modern, premium, conventional hollow point (Gold Dot, HST, etc.) under identical conditions?

Just One Shot
August 31, 2010, 05:18 PM
I may have told you guys wrong the hollow point did not have the red plug in them. I am at work right now so I can't look at the box but I was sure it said critical defense on the box but maybe not. But regardless of what it was its still hornady. I am not sure how to post pictures on here or I would. I was not wanting to start a war on what was the best to carry I was just wondering how often this happened. Like I said I emailed them and I am looking forward to what they say.
I made this ame mistake once. Mine was the Hornady - Personal Defense ammo. It is a hollow point but it doesn't have the plug in it.

doc2rn
August 31, 2010, 06:12 PM
I dont shoot ammo with a disclaimer on it.

Shawn Dodson
August 31, 2010, 08:27 PM
Any of the following loads out-perform Hornady Critical Defense ammo:

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

I suggest Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST. You can purchase a box of 50 rounds for under $30 at http://www.policehq.com/Ammunition/FEDERAL-AMMO

Full Metal Jacket
August 31, 2010, 08:32 PM
^^yep. good post :)

mhodge
August 31, 2010, 08:36 PM
How many of you reload your own? I have no problem with my handloaded PD rounds. I won't knock factory loads, but I have had a few FTF's and I need it to go bang every time with a CCW.

Full Metal Jacket
August 31, 2010, 08:45 PM
:eek:

you shouldn't carry reloads. use factory.

chris101973
August 31, 2010, 08:58 PM
I have yet to hear back from hornady I emailed them yesterday afternoon I will give them a few days before I call. You would think they would jump on this and want to know lot # to make sure a bunch didn't make it out the door.

DustyVermonter
September 1, 2010, 08:30 AM
That sux, I carry Hornady TAP and Critical Defense FTX and now after reading this post all I can associate FTX with is Fail to Expand.

It just bothers me to think that within the few pieces in my carry rotation there could be a fail to -----.

I like the Hornady because the price is right and will probably not dismiss Hornady just based on this thread but I have been interested in stocking Winchester Silver Tips and Winchester Ranger Talon's.

Also, just as a side note, I was reading an article a while back that really turned me away from Federal Hydra-shok's.

Long story short an 75 year old retired Marine was in a restuarant during a hold-up and was marched into a back room and knelt down execution style, and with the quickness pulled his CCW(which happenned to be a 5" 1911) and he struck one of the guys in the head and killed him, but the other man he shot took 3 .45acp 230gr Federal Hydra-Shok's in the chest at point blank range and was able to run 10 blocks until police finally caught up with him.

I know that stranger things have happenned and I don't always put too much stock into these stories, but the man had expressed his disappointment with his choice in carry ammo at the end of the article and I don't blame him, if I put 1 or 2 230gr 45 caliber bullets in someones chest at PBR, and that someone isn't incapacitated or dead by the time they reach the door, I too would feel indignant as a consumer.

The man switched to Gold Dot's or Golden Saber's or something, but everytime I see a box of Hydra-Shoks I think of that article.

I think I'm gonna try my luck with Winchester Silver Tips, anybody have anything bad to say about those?

I think ill stock my .45 and 10mm with Silver Tips and Ranger Talons for my 9mm and .38.

Just One Shot
September 1, 2010, 10:41 AM
I know that stranger things have happenned and I don't always put too much stock into these stories, but the man had expressed his disappointment with his choice in carry ammo at the end of the article and I don't blame him, if I put 1 or 2 230gr 45 caliber bullets in someones chest at PBR, and that someone isn't incapacitated or dead by the time they reach the door, I too would feel indignant as a consumer.

The man switched to Gold Dot's or Golden Saber's or something, but everytime I see a box of Hydra-Shoks I think of that article.

I think I'm gonna try my luck with Winchester Silver Tips, anybody have anything bad to say about those?

I think ill stock my .45 and 10mm with Silver Tips and Ranger Talons for my 9mm and .38.

Just another example of shot placement being more important than caliber. There are many examples of people being shot and being under the influence of some drug or having a major adrenaline dump and they were able to keep functioning.

But this could happen even if a person is shot through the heart. Have you ever seen a deer that was hit through the heart run 40-50 yards before crashing?

I remember reading somewhere that back in the old west days of shootouts there was a saying "I'll have my 10" meaning even if a fatal shot is recieved they would still be able to function for 10 seconds. Do you know how many rounds a person can discharge in 10 seconds? This is why when faced with a life or death situation you shoot until the threat stops.

DustyVermonter
September 2, 2010, 01:49 AM
I have always been under the impression that the head is the best place to aim and shoot an attacker, that way you should only have to waste one bullet per threat.

In the event 3 or 4 more attackers pile out of the car and come in to excecute you, you want all the firepower you can possibly have.

When the SHTF, you don't get a second to catch your breath and get your sxxx together, so all the trivial things that everybody else may think is rediculous to train for may come in very handy one day and save lives.

hometheaterman
September 2, 2010, 02:19 AM
I'm not at all anti Hornady, and infact, I really like their rifle ammo. It's some of my favorite, and their SST bullets are just flat out amazing imo. However, I see no reason to use their pistol loads for self defense when any issues are being reported. Winchester Ranger T series, Speer Gold Dots, and Federal HST's are all great self defense loads, and I see no reason to use the Hornady's over any of them even if the Hornady's aren't having issues.

ET
September 2, 2010, 11:36 AM
The failure to fire is a very bad problem however the top link the guy that posted the OP found that when shot in a longer barreled gun they expanded like they were suposed to. The pics posted above were out of a snubby 2". He later fired them out of a 4" and they expanded properly. Dont know why they would need a longer barrel to work properly. Maybe it has to do with the extra 2" of rifleing causing it to spin at a quicker rate. Who knows. Untill they work out the glitches i'll still use their TAP ammo. Never had a problem there.
__________________


The longer the barrel the faster the bullet & the faster the spin. Hollow points do better when they go faster and spin more.

I like the critical defense & the Hornadys that don't have the red plug. I can find an article or test that shows anything on the internet. I mean really...Did you know that there is solid proof that God is dead? :what: Yep! It's right there on the internet.

WV_Vizsla
September 2, 2010, 12:20 PM
I tested the Critical Defense (red plug) and the older and still produced Custom last year in ballistic gelatin. Both did what you would think they should. CritD left a little longer and wider channel in a few spots, plus little red dots along the way.

The goal beyond marketing of CritD was adding the plug for jacket/shirt penetration. AND a reduced flash like the TAP. In that regard: From a 3" barrel, flash seems about the same as Custom and WSF handloads.
4" barrel did seem a little less flash with the CritD to the research staff I had watching.

PS: Fully willing to conduct extensive research if the funding is right. 100+ rounds was enough to have confidence in the Hornady product.

ET
September 2, 2010, 12:36 PM
Critical Defence does what it should

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tested the Critical Defense (red plug) and the older and still produced Custom last year in ballistic gelatin. Both did what you would think they should. CritD left a little longer and wider channel in a few spots, plus little red dots along the way.

The goal beyond marketing of CritD was adding the plug for jacket/shirt penetration. AND a reduced flash like the TAP. In that regard: From a 3" barrel, flash seems about the same as Custom and WSF handloads.
4" barrel did seem a little less flash with the CritD to the research staff I had watching.

PS: Fully willing to conduct extensive research if the funding is right. 100+ rounds was enough to have confidence in the Hornady product.

Thank you. It's good that SOMEBODY will test the ammo before making a judgement on it's effectiveness. (OK, I don't do this either. I just shoot it into paper and assume it expanded.:rolleyes:)

gofastman
September 2, 2010, 12:50 PM
I have always been under the impression that the head is the best place to aim and shoot an attacker, that way you should only have to waste one bullet per threat.

In the event 3 or 4 more attackers pile out of the car and come in to excecute you, you want all the firepower you can possibly have.
one's ocular cavity is quite a bit smaller than the thoracic cavity.

but the man had expressed his disappointment with his choice in carry ammo at the end of the article and I don't blame him
so he took two people's lives and expressed disappointment at his ammo choice? psycho :uhoh:


Anyway back to the OP, if you had FTF in a properly working gun, i would stay FAR away from that ammo, pick one of the ones mentioned in post #25.

the_skunk
March 28, 2011, 04:03 PM
I had 16 misfires out of a box of 25 .... primer had to be hit twice. Then I fired Winchester 32s, and Speer 32s, etc and they all worked. Obviously a hard primer on a sensitive Seecamp.

So I saved $4 on ammo and spent $75 checking the guns reliability. Maybe a mugger will undertand if I tell him - "Let me reload, this clip has cheap bullets"

randytrapper
March 28, 2011, 04:26 PM
This is why I went with Win Rangers in a 50 round box. They are inexpensive enough to practice with. Not that the 'marketed' defence ammo is not good. But I can't spend $1.00+ a round on ammo.
I would never fire enough 'defence' ammo to find out if there 'could' be a issue with it. Granted, any ammo could have a problem. But I just fired enough Rangers to trust my life to them.

KimberUltra
March 28, 2011, 05:36 PM
Ive shot the Critical Defense through my Ultra Carry .45. No issues at all. My 1911 doesn't like gold dots or golden sabres. I was looking for something with more of a point to it and the CD is perfect. No issues yet.

unclenunzie
April 3, 2011, 08:32 PM
I have tested Hornady CD in .380 and .357, no issues at all for the lot #s I got. But I had significant fail to fire issues with the .38 special variety, all from one lot. It was a while ago but I distinctly remember 9 of 25 rounds needed multiple strikes from a single box (fired from an SP101). Hornady replaced the ammo and the new lot tested OK....... but still, I can't recall a single other brand of premium defense ammo having failed to fire. Personally I think they must have gotten a bad batch of small pistol primers back in the ammo shortage period post November 2008. They should have tested them rather than allow them to go to customers, in my opinion. Of course I have no idea if they did or didn't test them or if such testing hits primers harder or in some way differs from real-world weapons.

Ultimately this is the reason for testing ammo prior to depending on it for anything serious.

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