a warning to .22 autoloaders


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gendoikari87
August 31, 2010, 02:48 PM
after doing some more research on .22 ammo I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbsuJhr_zE

I can't really verify it, or tell if it was just that particular gun, but it is a cause for alarm

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Lvl21nerd
August 31, 2010, 02:59 PM
i keep hearing things all the time about how the quality of Remington ammo had dropped in the last few years or more, and that is just one more thing to add to the list

OTOH, i have been using Rem .38spl in my revolver lately (only .38spl i can get ATM)
have had zero issues with it

but when i used Rem 9mm in my CZ, it seemed noticeably weak compared to my other 9mm ammo, and wasnt as accurate either

go figure, but when i get that Ruger MKII i keep looking for, i will be sure not to put any Rem (or waxy feeling ammo) through it

thanks gendoikari87

nalioth
August 31, 2010, 03:04 PM
I'd take anything I saw on youtube with a large grain of salt.

*cough*rock of gibralter size*cough*

A lot of these are people who have agendas, or people too ignorant to realize their gun didn't malfunction the way they thought it did.

Packman
August 31, 2010, 03:15 PM
Meh. I don't shoot lead bullets out of autoloader .22's anyway. I've had too many issues with feeding. Buy copper jacketed ammo, it's not that much more expensive in the wally world bulk packs. Load it up and hammer away with confidence.


On another note...Who doesn't change their target after it's that shot out by 100 rounds? Sheesh, I'd just quit loading the gun. Same effect.

bigfatdave
August 31, 2010, 03:16 PM
Remington Rimfire ammo is crap? Who knew?

At least the testing on rimfire ammo is cheap, 500+ rounds for ~$20 is a small investment to find out what works and what doesn't.

Are Thunderbolts optimized for rifles, perhaps? Whenever I have crap .22lr ammo I end up feeding it to my Henry lever carbine, which eats it happily since it isn't a semiauto and the crud doesn't end up in the works.

Packman, you know that .22LR ammo is plated, not jacketed, right?
And I've run a bunch of ammo through one target a few times, but I'd agree that it gets boring. That's why I like reactive targets. 100 rounds through a tennis ball on a string or an old kitchen pot is a LOT more fun than any number of rounds onto paper.

Oyeboten
August 31, 2010, 03:24 PM
Just my luck...I bought a Brick of the stuff not too long ago.


Guy in the video maybe should clean his Pistol once in a while, also, I think.


In the Video, it looked more like his Bore was eroded, than that it had Lube and fouling, but, hard to say.

atomd
August 31, 2010, 03:32 PM
I've seen a lot of poor quality Remington ammo lately. I had some .357s where the case separated at the rim while firing, the bulk .22 from Walmart that has a much higher ratio of duds compared to Federal and not very accurate in any of my guns either, and also a box of .223 that had a couple of rounds in it that were visibly unsafe to fire. All of this ammo was bought by me within the last year. I'm not going to buy their stuff anymore unless it's last resort. They need to take a good long look at their QC process.

bds
August 31, 2010, 03:34 PM
The copper plating on .22 LR bullets is cheap insurance. With the Walmart plated bulk pack prices why shoot bare lead in .22 LR?

I can reload 9mm for about twice that of .22 LR prices, so 9mm plinking for me.

cougar1717
August 31, 2010, 03:39 PM
I thought it was funny that the guy in the youtube video acted as if he had never fired T-bolt before! He most certainly has an agenda. What was even more amazing was that there was no mention of FTF's. For Remington rimfire, that itself is surprising. There are some automatic 22LR pistols that will not shoot hollowpoints due to the angle of the feed ramp. And, sometimes, the local store only has one type of non hollowpoint 22LR. I've never had that much fouling when using Tbolt. Almost bet it was 300 rounds of rapid fire to make a video.

EdLaver
August 31, 2010, 04:26 PM
As long as the Yellow Jackets are still good...

JohnBT
August 31, 2010, 04:52 PM
"you know that .22LR ammo is plated, not jacketed"

I thought it was copper washed. That's even thinner and cheaper, right?

doc2rn
August 31, 2010, 05:00 PM
Even the standard velocity Remington stuff! Did the same thing to my S&W mod 41! Now I just shoot CCI seeing as how Eley and some of the others went through the roof!

bigfatdave
September 1, 2010, 06:45 PM
I thought it was copper washed. That's even thinner and cheaper, right? "washed" and "plated" are in the same category, and yes, a lot of them have the thinnest coating of copper possible.
The point I was making is that .22LR copper-covered rounds aren't a shell so much as a thin coating, they aren't really "jacketed".

Not that that is a bad thing, adding a copper shell would make your ammo into hardball, and guns chambered in .22LR are set up for soft lead or copper wash/plate, I think you'd get a different POI at least, possibly actual problems.

Ben86
September 1, 2010, 07:07 PM
Thanks for warning my autoloader. ;)

It's common knowledge that rem thunderbolt is crap. Personally I don't even like their golden bullets, which is a step up. On second thought I don't like to shoot anything but copper plated ammo in my .22s. Federal .22 bulk pack is my favorite. From my experience I get consistent powder charges, good accuracy, function, and not much fouling. Winchester 333 or 555 comes in at a close second. The only reason they are second is because they don't feed as reliably (because of the wider hp) and the fit and finish of the ammo is not as good as the federal (win is a little dirty looking and the bullets are sort of loose fitting compared to the taught, spotless federal).

Full Metal Jacket
September 1, 2010, 07:19 PM
don't know about their .22, but i had issues for years with almost every box of UMC garbage i bought. i don't use remington anymore. (their 1911 "R1" isn't exactly of the highest caliber either).

gendoikari87
September 1, 2010, 07:45 PM
don't know about their .22, but i had issues for years with almost every box of UMC garbage i bought. i don't use remington anymore. (their 1911 "R1" isn't exactly of the highest caliber either).

How, pray-tel did they manage to screw up a 1911

killchain
September 1, 2010, 08:50 PM
Does no one anymore clean their bores?

Seriously. Rodding that barrel would fix that.

Full Metal Jacket
September 1, 2010, 08:56 PM
How, pray-tel did they manage to screw up a 1911


say what? lol

are you asking me if i designed the R1?

you feelin alright there, buddy? :scrutiny: :eek:

LawofThirds
September 1, 2010, 11:31 PM
What's wrong with lead bullets in .22LR? The most accurate .22LR I've found has been the CCI Blazer bulk pack and Wolf Match, both a lubricated lead bullet. I've had less fouling from those two rounds than from many of the copper washed bulk packs.

bubba15301
September 1, 2010, 11:39 PM
how many rounds did the guy fire thru his pistol without cleaning it?

DrLaw
September 1, 2010, 11:49 PM
I shoot the cheapest stuff I can find when I could find it, and clean about once in 100 shots, and have not had the bore or muzzle looking anything like that video. The reason I am cleaning once in 100 shots is I shoot ten weeks of pistol league and only twenty rounds per week. So, roughly, in about 5 weeks, I clean. The rest of the time I let it go.

Oh, didn't mention that I win using that 'strategy', did I? :scrutiny:

I do. :p

I'm thinking somebody was pissed at Remington and made a video to 'complain' about Remington. After all, we all know everything we read or see on the Internet is true, right?

The Doc is out now. :cool:

1SOW
September 2, 2010, 12:24 AM
I'm thinking somebody was pissed at Remington and made a video to 'complain' about Remington. After all, we all know everything we read or see on the Internet is true, right?

By the same token, not everything you read on the internet is crap. Many have complainedabout Remington's .22LR cheapies.

I bought my High Standard in the 70's to shoot bullseye. It would never shoot Winchester and doesn't like bulk ammo--especially Remington.

I've shot a bazillion rounds of Federal and CCI "Target" waxed bullets through it ( 99.959% reliable :-), and am not a compulsive cleaner. When I do get around to cleaning it, I really clean it.

The pistol looks (inside and out) and shoots the same as it did when new, except for one very small exterior barrel mark I put on it when only a few months old---really.

Magnumite
September 2, 2010, 12:58 AM
I like Remington ammo and bullets for reloading. I've had good results with their 22 Mag ammo and especially the Core Lokt out of my Ruger m77 MkII in 30-06.
They make good rifles.

But I must say I haven't had much luck at all with the Thunderbolt, even less after they "improved" it years ago.

There is one other ammo make that will foul like that (at least in my guns). That is Aguila, especially the "no gun powder" load. The Aguila even smells different when shooting it.

chicharrones
September 2, 2010, 07:31 AM
I agree with others that the video maker hasn't cleaned his gun loooooong before he fired the Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt isn't the best rimfire ammo, as we all know, but it still goes bang in many autoloaders.

I've fired a few bulk packs in my Neos with cleanings after each range session of about 250 rounds. My Neos' bore never, ever looks like that when dirty.

bgeddes
September 2, 2010, 08:14 AM
Most shooters shoot more rimfire between cleanings, my self included, but shooting 300 rounds of cheap-as-you-can-buy ammo and expecting anything but a mess is naive. As others have said, what was the condition of this pistol barrel prior to the 300 rounds?

I fail to see a point be made other than shooting junk through and unmaintained firearm will result in poor performance.

I'd like to see the bore after a cleaning from a capable person. Seems to me a few minutes with a bore brush and solvent would take less time than making a video complaining about cheap ammo.

Magnumite
September 2, 2010, 09:04 AM
Sure would take less time - especially using a bore snake before leaving the range

makarovnik
September 2, 2010, 09:07 AM
Anybody contact Remington for a refund? I recently bought four boxes of .45acp and it better all be good or there will be hell to pay.

At these prices I expect near perfect quality. Oh and I love it when the retailer puts a sign on the door/wall that says "no refunds on ammunition". If it's faulty you should be able to return the item no matter what it is. Maybe I'll just use their restroom and plug up their toilet with a gigantic poo.

TonyT
September 2, 2010, 10:09 AM
Many 22 semi auto pistols are sensitive to the brand of ammo withwhich they will function reliably - especially when one uses the less expensive bulk packed ammo. Many people complain about Remington 22 ammo but in my test I have found that in some semi autos it functions perfectly while in others I get an unacceptable (ca 5-10%) rate of ignition failures. I did make the mistake once of shooting a lot of Remington Thunderbolt ammo through a semi auto pistol on a hot summer day and manages to lead the barrel horribly. It took a lot of elbow grease on the bronze brush to remove the lead. found that if i allowed the barrel to cool between every ca 20 rounds the ammo functioned perfectly. As an aside I have found the Remington Thunderbolt and Golden ammo to be somewhat more accurate than the Federal bulk pack HV but much dirtier upon firing. The CCI 22LR ammo has always had a solid reputation for reliability and accuracy. I have shot through several cases of CCI SV and MiniMags without a single reliability issue.

Owen
September 2, 2010, 11:19 AM
Thunderbolt has always been crappy. when I worked on a rental range, we allowed people to use anything but t-bolt in our .22s.

gofastman
September 2, 2010, 11:58 AM
BoreSnake!

ET
September 2, 2010, 12:02 PM
:confused::eek::what: Shocked I'm just just just...Shocked!!!

:uhoh:Wait a minute...I'm OK, because I have an Advantage Arms Conversion kit & they won't let me use the Thunderbold stuff anyway. I am supposed to use the Remington golden bullet. A video on You Tube told me it is made out of real gold & I believe him. He says it's the real gold that makes it work so good. Boy do I feel better about that. REAL GOLD...who would have imagined? :rolleyes:

Isn't the internet great. Everything is right there at our fingertips & it's all true.:what:

Ben86
September 2, 2010, 02:41 PM
Are you doubting the youtube gun experts?

Shadow 7D
September 2, 2010, 03:34 PM
nO wI sHoUlD i DoUbT U tUbE???

Come on, yeah, some good stuff is on there, and some stuff by people who make me wonder if they aren't from a family tree that is straight as an arrow. Shooting a box of .22 and complaining about it being dirty....

Funny, I've heard that Eley match isn't the cleanest stuff out there either, and wolf stinks (smell) maybe I should make a youtube rant that.

Ben86
September 2, 2010, 03:40 PM
Come on now those are hily cwalifide indivijules. How dare you doubt their authenticity and gene pool. ;)

Some of the guys, like Hickcok45 and tnoutdoors are really cool. But neither one professes to be an expert.

ForumSurfer
September 2, 2010, 04:19 PM
Isn't the internet great. Everything is right there at our fingertips & it's all true.

Too funny!

Big surprise...a 22 got dirty.

Take a bore snake to the range if you're that worried. I've fired 1000's of 22 rounds through all of my 22's...some worse than wally world bulk. If I'm shooting tin cans, golf balls, spinners or other reactive stuff for fun; I don't need accuracy. Why not save some money and buy the cheapest thing I can find and just clean my guns?

Now for punching paper and sighting stuff in...yeah I go with the nicer stuff.

I have other, more important things to support so I save money where I can. I don't need accurate dependable ammo for my old fashioned plinking fun sessions.

That horrible bulk ammo isn't going to hurt your weapon. I've got a couple of 80's model marlin 60's with great bores (despite my abuse, infrequent cleaning and use of poor quality ammo).

That being said...if I were shooting a rifle with an expensive custom barrel, I'd probably buy nothing but the good stuff. But to me, my fun 22's are the ones that shoot "minute of golf-ball" or "minute of spinner target" or minute of soup can" with the cheap stuff. Those rifles are what got my kids, my ex wife and my girlfriend interested in shooting with me. Sure, everyone moves on to test their skill. However, a soup can hunting session or spinner trap race is a great way to enjoy some family time. $30 at wally world and the aluminum can recycle bin from the kitchen makes for an awful lot of family fun on saturdays!

Wahoo95
September 2, 2010, 05:15 PM
So he says the issue is the lube they use. That's odd since most match .22lr has a nice coating of lube and I've never heard or seen any of the benchrest guys complain......most that I know hav never cleaned their barrel!

Confederate
September 2, 2010, 05:21 PM
Twenty-two ammo has been around for years, and it's always been cheap and somewhat unreliable. In our day, if you want to shoot good ammo, just pick CCI or another good brand and clean your guns at reasonable intervals. If you want to go cheap, there will always be alternatives -- like Thunderbolt -- and you'll save some money, though you may have some downsides. The point is, there are alternatives.

flamelawnmower
September 3, 2010, 07:33 AM
for the past ten years the best luck i have had is with the thunderbolts. They run through my beretta 21 bobcat, beretta u22 neos, taurus pt22, phoenix hp22, and rimfire rifles without any problems. the key to success i have found is to clean the dang gun, rimfires are dirty, after a a few hundred rounds clean out the chamber, barrel, and lube the slide and they fire without flaw.

Quoheleth
September 3, 2010, 07:58 AM
I've been shooting Federal bulk paks for years, now. The other night at Wally World the ammo sales clerk said (ditto, "grain of salt") lots of people have been complaining of late about the Federals (maroon box). He also said people had been, "returning them," which is a load of bull as WM has a zero return policy on ammo which makes me a little suspicious of both parts to his story.

icanthitabarn
September 3, 2010, 09:21 AM
After reading, on the internet, I was upset, at my little hoard of Rem /subs. I had got them a few years ago. So a few weeks ago I picked up a sweet old High Standard. I tried a couple of Feds, CCI, Eleys, $8 a box Fiocchi, and others. CCI/ subs won't feed at all, and the rest shot OK, more /less. What works the best? The Rems all go bang and outshoot everything.:)

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