303 Savage penetrations w/190 grain?


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Glamdring
August 31, 2010, 08:32 PM
Wondering if anyone has any experience to relate on 303 Savage and penetration either in inches or how it compares to a more common caliber/load.

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dakotasin
September 1, 2010, 12:34 AM
i don't have a 303, but it is pretty close to a 30-30 in performance. whatever a 30-30 can do, so can the 303.

check your twist rate to make sure you can stabilize the 190's.

i'm assuming this is a savage 99?

Glamdring
September 1, 2010, 12:37 PM
So nobody has any experience with it?

rcmodel
September 1, 2010, 02:55 PM
The factory 190 grain load was rated at 1,890 FPS - 1,507 ME.

By contrast, a 30-30 150 is 2,410 FPS - 1,930 ME
And a 170 is 2,220 FPS - 1,860 ME.

What exactly do you want to penetrate?
It would perform very similar to the 30-30 on deer size game.
In other words, shoot clear through a deer and kill it.

rc

Gadzooks Mike
September 1, 2010, 03:05 PM
Using the old factory ammo, the 303 would out-penetrate the 30-30. Using modern ammo in a 30-30, you can nearly duplicate the 303 performance. No way that you can duplicate the pure enjoyment of shooting one of those old Savages, however.

I should also add that you can use pointed bullets in the Savage, as it has a rotary magazine. That's adds a bit of zip to it.

Glamdring
September 1, 2010, 09:54 PM
I know what the external and internal ballistics are. Was looking for first hand or second hand info on the terminal ballistics.

Doing research. I know it is similar to 30-30, but so is 35 rem. However the 35 can penetrate a lot more than 30-30 with certain loads. Trying to find out if that is true for the 303 Savage or not.

Will it take both shoulders on an Elk or Moose? I know you can use behind shoulder shot or multiple shots like many do with 30-30. Just trying to find out if it has significantly more penetration than the 30-30 just because I am curious.

Gadzooks Mike
September 1, 2010, 10:55 PM
From a 1903 Savage Arms catalog:

303 - "Its penetration is about ten inches in clear white pine, making a very large hole."
30-30 - "Penetration in white pine, 8 inches, making a large hole."

There's also a letter printed in the same catalog from E. T. Ezekiel from Wood Island, Alaska dated Jan 17, 1899, saying in part, "Referring to the Savage I bought from you last year, it may be of interest to you to know that I have succeeded in killing a whale with the .303 mushroom bullet. I believe that this experience is very exceptional and probably quite different from any testimonials you have received heretofore."

The few 190 grain cartridges that I used in the late 60s and early 70s on Michigan whitetails were all heart/lung shots. I have not killed, or even shot at, any whales, there being very few of them in Michigan (disregarding my sister-in-law and a couple of Yupers that I know) and I haven't seen any in Alabama, either.

Hope this helps.

Sunray
September 2, 2010, 11:27 PM
"...nobody has any experience with it?..." It hasn't been loaded nor had rifles made for it for eons. It's just Savage's answer to the .30-30. 190's are heavy for it. I'm not seeing any suitably shaped(RN, et al) 190 grain bullets either. That, of course, depends on the rifle. Same restrictions as a .30-30, otherwise. I have 193 w/gas check cast data if you want it.

Glamdring
September 3, 2010, 02:58 AM
Gadzooks Mike: Thanks, that is helpful.

Sunray: I know people who shoot guns and cartridges lot older than that :D just none of them have played with the 303 Savage AFAIK. I know of a guy that frequently hunts with guns nearly as old as the USA.

I would be greatly interested in the performance of those 193 grain bullets. Thank you.

Gadzooks Mike
September 3, 2010, 04:15 PM
I'm not seeing any suitably shaped(RN, et al) 190 grain bullets either.

That, too. I've seen 180's, but not 190's. If you trim down the cases just a bit, you can fit a 178gr Hornady A-Max and it will just barely cycle through. Lot's of round nose 180's, though. Remington, Hornady, Lapua makes a 185.

Remington made 180's for the 303 back in the 60's (and probably before) and Winchester made the 190's if I remember right.

hardluk1
September 4, 2010, 05:29 PM
Anyone that has an interest in a savage 99 in a 303 savage . On Target indoor range in Asheville NC had one on consinment. Darn good look'n long octagon barrel and 2 boxs of ammo. Price i think was around 750.

Gadzooks Mike
September 4, 2010, 07:49 PM
Speaking of 303 Savage, I just got 100 brand new pieces of Prvi brass in the mail today!

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