Incident snowballs into gun being pulled


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TheeBadOne
December 11, 2003, 04:42 PM
Man Hit By Snowball Allegedly Pulls Out Gun

Investigators Getting Search Warrant For Man's Home

PHILADELPHIA -- Some children playing in the snow in West Philadelphia Wednesday got a scare when a man they hit with a snowball allegedly pulled a gun on them.

The incident allegedly happened Wednesday morning in the 4400 block of Haverford Avenue.

Police said the 51-year-old man was hit in the face with a snowball. He then reportedly pointed a gun at several kids involved.

Police have not filed charges against the man, so NBC 10 News is not releasing his name. Investigators said they are getting a search warrant for his home.
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http://www.nbc5i.com/news/2697192/detail.html

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Snowdog
December 11, 2003, 05:36 PM
What in the world are they going to search his home for? :scrutiny:

stv
December 11, 2003, 05:38 PM
Well that was irrational and hot-headed of him. Yet another reason to deny law-abiding level-headed citizens CCW permits. :cuss:

TheeBadOne
December 11, 2003, 05:40 PM
What in the world are they going to search his home for?
The gun I would imagine, to see if he has one that matches the description of the witnesses.

Zundfolge
December 11, 2003, 06:22 PM
What in the world are they going to search his home for?
They could be looking for other guns ... I bet this guy is NOT a CCW holder, and probably can't own guns legaly (either a felon or a nut).

greyhound
December 11, 2003, 06:29 PM
Even if they find a gun, won't it just be he said/she said?

While I don't think pointing a gun at kids should go unpunished if true, why do I feel they will make a bigger deal out of this than it really warrants?

threeseven
December 12, 2003, 04:05 AM
As unwarranted as his reaction may have been, what the hell are kids doing hitting 51-year-old men in the face with snowballs?

UnknownSailor
December 12, 2003, 04:17 AM
If memory serves me correctly, not to long ago a man was lured into being jumped and killed by a group of the neighborhood ruffians by being hit with snowballs.

The guy was beat to death in the front yard of some persons home, in full view of every house on the street, and no-one lifted a finger to help. By a pack of 12-15 year old kids.

Hal
December 12, 2003, 07:01 AM
Well that was irrational and hot-headed of him. Ya think?!?!

I'm 51.
I'm blind in one eye.
Hit me in the face with a snowball and put out the other one,,,,,might as well shoot me and get it all over with right now.:banghead:

I'm sick of this crap. These weren't "children playing in the snow". These were (are) vermin committing a criminal act. They're going to get a free pass on this all over "gun hysteria".

Crissse-all-mighty - Old Lady Costello took to waving a shotgun in the air to keep us kids out of her yard when just waving a broom and yelling quit working.

Difference back then is we didn't dare breathe a word of it to our folks or we'da been the ones in Dutch for tormenting the old battle axe. AND it never in a million years would have crossed out minds to throw anything at her...
(Well, technicaly that isn't 100% true...Ronnie D. chucked an apple through her windows once and his dad beat him half way to the moon for it)

Beren
December 12, 2003, 07:50 AM
I have a very hard time viewing the average snowball as a deadly weapon. I guess if they put rocks in it, or if it was packed slush/ice instead of snow, I might be more open to argument - but pulling a gun out over it and pointing it at the kids? I can't agree that was reasonable behavior if the reports we've heard are accurate.

Old Lady Costello took to waving a shotgun in the air to keep us kids out of her yard when just waving a broom and yelling quit working.

Waving a shotgun in the air is one thing - drawing a pistol and pointing it at someone is another. One's brandishing at worst, the other can be considered aggravated assault. As described, it sounds as though the man's pride was hurt the worst, so he drew down on the kids to "teach them respect." That's not what a firearm is for.

Atticus
December 12, 2003, 09:50 AM
The Devil's in the details. Was this a bunch of young kids playing- and inadvertantly struck him...or even intentionally lobbed a snowball in his direction? Or was it a bunch of teens that surrounded him like a band of savages and pounded him in the face with snowballs. Even though the PD might not agree that the latter example is justification for showing a weapon...I might. I've had a run in or two with groups of teens in my neighborhood (while walking with twin 3 year olds), and it is really hard to determine exactly what their intent is at times. Some of the kids running around today have far more in common with Charley Manson than Beaver Cleaver. Should you be willing to die, or let your family be severly injured or die to find out? Where's Paul Harvey... with "the rest of the story."

clubsoda22
December 12, 2003, 10:58 AM
i taught one of my EMT trainees a lesson in scene safety. Some kid got hit with a chunk of ice in a snowball fight and got his nose split open. He goes over to help and gets hit 37 times. I laughed my butt off, he learned his lesson.

dog3
December 12, 2003, 11:03 AM
Okay, this is thread hijacking, I know;

However;

Many years ago, walking into the Crystal City Metro Stop (some of you know
where it is) some kids where up on the overpass and were pelting us working
folks with indirect snowball fire.

I walked through the sporadic barrage as I could see no immediate
tactical response. But then I noticed the line of newspaper machines
adjacent a snowthower pile of chewed up snow.

I broke from the sidewalk and took cover behind the newspaper machines
and began lobbing chunks of snow back over the overpass barrier
attempt to suppress the snowball barrage.

Within seconds, the intended victims of the hostile action, the
regular suit&tie crowd joined me in my counter attack. Briefcases
left aside as they grabbed all the snow they could fine and turned
the tide on the violent child agressors.

Of course, a lot of these folks were Pentagon people. A few in uniform.

i've always wondered what that said about so-called "Normal folks". But
I was heartened by they way they were so quick to back me -a long
haired, noble faired, leaping gnome- up.

ceetee
December 12, 2003, 11:24 AM
his dad beat him half way to the moon for it

Dang... I must have a long lost brother out there somewhere! Either that, or my Dad and Ronnie's Dad went to the same school of child-rearing...

Denver
December 12, 2003, 11:41 AM
Hal, I dream of those days of yore!

The rod has been spared and the children spoiled! What isn't taught to children is now being paid for by all!

2 Kings 2:23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD . Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Yeah, Baby! Now there's a response for ya! Forget the Gun, call in the Bears!

Scooter .45
December 12, 2003, 11:52 AM
Not enough info. Story is too short to draw any conclusions from, other than the fact the news media will jump on any chance to portray guns in a negative light, regardless of the situation.

TallPine
December 12, 2003, 12:03 PM
Yeah, Baby! Now there's a response for ya! Forget the Gun, call in the Bears!
Support the right to keep and arm bears.

Mikul
December 12, 2003, 01:30 PM
Since the man who pulled the gun did not go to the police, then all of the information is coming from the children. Generally, if kids will admit to purposely hitting a strange 51-year-old man in the face with a snowball, they really did more than that.

In the absence of authority figures, children will continue to push the line until someone stops them. If they threw a snowball in his face and there was no retaliation, they'd throw another, or approach him and otherwise harrass him.

If I were hit in the face with a snowball and approached in a threatening manner by a group of kids, I'd pull my gun too. I'd be a fool not to.

JimJD
December 12, 2003, 01:58 PM
Ack!
It seems like it might be a "He said, She said" type of deal.
If a gun was pulled, that was the wrong thing to do.
However...If teenagers did this, I'd consider taking out my paintball gun for a little target practice on moving targets.
Yes, I know, that's dangerous too... but after a snowball in the face...
Eh... maybe call the cops? But then the cops would probably laugh and leave.
What the victim needs is a semi-automatic uber-tactical compressed ice sphere launching cannon... yeah, that's the ticket!

nutznwomen
December 12, 2003, 02:13 PM
Years ago, some kids were throwing snowballs along I-5. A guy got out and opened fire on them. I forget if they were hit. Since they could have caused a serious accident, I have to admit my sympathies are for the shooter despite all the rhetoric.

Actions have consequences

Hal
December 13, 2003, 04:49 AM
Hmmm,

4400 block of Haverford Avenue appears to be Drexel University according to mapquest.

Wonder how old these "children" were/are?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few months ago here in NE Ohio we had a story about some "kids" throwing corn cobs at passing cars. Some poor slob who's car got nailed got fed up with it and ended up shooting one of the "kids".

The "kid" turned out to be in his early 20's.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't condone the actions of either -- --

but I'm sure sick and tired of the world being turned so upside down....

and the media.:barf:

manwithoutahome
December 13, 2003, 02:29 PM
Not enough info. but, if done on purpose, this was assault and not "in fun". Snowballs, with any type of debris in it, is a "deadly weapon" and can cause great harm, pain.

I know that some will say, "Oh, Com'on, it was only a freaking snowball". Just a snowball. Well, if you've been hit in the face, and you didn't see who did it, or if the "children" are in the 18 to 20 year old range, what makes one think that it wasn't a setup to 1) blind the victim and 2) rob/mug/kill the victim?

Now, if he saw that they were "real" kids (not adults claimed as kids) and they just accidently hit him and he knew it, then it was wrong for him to do what he did, maybe.

But he did make the mistake of not calling the police, and his lawyer. He could have called in an assault and his lawyer could have gotten him off.

M

Robert J McElwain
December 13, 2003, 03:41 PM
I have a very hard time viewing the average snowball as a deadly weapon. I guess if they put rocks in it, or if it was packed slush/ice instead of snow, I might be more open to argument - but pulling a gun out over it and pointing it at the kids? I can't agree that was reasonable behavior if the reports we've heard are accurate.

And what do you suppose the odds are that the media gave this a fair and accurate reporting? :rolleyes:

Bob

Beren
December 13, 2003, 03:54 PM
And what do you suppose the odds are that the media gave this a fair and accurate reporting?

Slim to none, I'm sure. That's why I qualified my statement.

Slow
December 14, 2003, 12:53 AM
I'm with Hal on this. I wasn't on scene to see all this go down... but when is it ever appropriate to hit a stranger unprovoked? Although I am not sure I would have pulled my weapon.... The man did show some self control in as much as he didn't shoot anyone. I am certain there are more self controlled and noble people who probably would just laugh and think " what fun !" I am not sure I'd be one of them.... I hope and pray daily to do the right thing.... I think one thing is certain, those throwing the snowballs will think twice before pelting another passerby

c_yeager
December 14, 2003, 04:04 AM
Since we are all embarking on a nice little nostalgia trip here i figured i mention the "good ole days" of my youth when a kids were allowed to goof off without some dude deciding that they were " (are) vermin committing a criminal act". There is WAY too little information on that article to come to any kind of conclusion. But, at the absolute worse case these were little hooligans who decided to throw a snowball at some guy because they were jerks. Even still it was way out of line ot pull a gun on them. Such an action goes against EVERYTHING that we maintain as responsible gun-ownership and its a black eye for all of us.

LiquidTension
December 14, 2003, 04:22 AM
I don't know what you guys are complaining about. It's ok to point guns at kids that haven't done anything wrong - just look at the example set by the Goose Creek police at Stratford High School. It's obviously alright :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'd be pissed if some punk kids hit me in the face with a snowball for no reason, but pulling a gun on them is not how I'd react. If they did it as prelude to attack that would be one thing, but just doing it because they're punk kids shouldn't elicit that kind of response.

artherd
December 14, 2003, 04:29 AM
I don't know. I never would pull a gun withought the intent to USE it if nessicary.

So you would likely have to do more than just pelt me with a snowball. More like 2 or three, and then start moving in.

And at that point, once I have my gun out, all of you little punks (I'm 23 :) are going to get hauled in under Citizen's Arrest for assault.

Matt1911
December 14, 2003, 10:05 AM
When we were "kids"(16 to 20), two "kids" in the area got stiches,one lossed an eye from snowball fights. NEVER was there ill intent,just good ol' fun. A well packed snowball pitched by a 18 year old ball player at ?? miles per hour....

kentucky bucky
December 14, 2003, 10:23 AM
Don't jump to conclusions. You all know how the media hypes gun related stories. The "children" might have been 17 1/2 years old and the snowballs might turn out to be bricks after the investigation. Of course there will be no follow up story if this turns out to be true. I'll have to get all the facts before declaring this guy a nut case.

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