LGS is trying to make a low ball offer on my Sig


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Flfiremedic
August 31, 2010, 09:28 PM
Wanted to trade a basicly new Sig P220 Elite, 3 mags, and a holster for a Savage rifle that retails at $799. Said he'd go $400 at most...says Sigs just don't sell. Does he know something I don't?

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whatever
August 31, 2010, 09:32 PM
He knows his bottom line and what he needs to turn a profit. He doesn't make any money trading guns...he makes money SELLING them.

Geordie
August 31, 2010, 09:33 PM
In your area. Do what I do, make a counter offer. If you can't live with his offer say thanks and walk away.

ABTOMAT
August 31, 2010, 09:37 PM
Gun stores always lowball. especially in trades. Sell that Sig private party and get that Savage for a few bucks.

Flfiremedic
August 31, 2010, 09:40 PM
Yeah...guess I'll wait till a gun show and try to sell...or try gunbroker.

wow6599
August 31, 2010, 09:41 PM
He knows his bottom line and what he needs to turn a profit. He doesn't make any money trading guns...he makes money SELLING them.
Not buying this for a second. They make MORE money if you trade in a gun like the OP's wanting to trade in. So they give you $400 for the Sig and you add another $400 on top of that for a Savage? Really.....come on. Essentially they're getting around $1000 for a Savage that probably cost them $625+/-. He will resale the Sig for $600 + the $400 you throw on top to make the deal.

Some shops are worse than used car lots.

TexasRifleman
August 31, 2010, 09:42 PM
Some shops are worst than used car lots.

They do what they can do to make money, can't really fault them for that.

The customer can always just turn and walk away.

I've never had an offer for a trade-in that didn't make me laugh out loud. I usually just shake my head and say "no thanks".

Flfiremedic
August 31, 2010, 09:46 PM
He screwed up...couldn't find the price in the blue book so I helped him. Saw the As new used Retail price $1k.

Deaf Smith
August 31, 2010, 09:49 PM
Wanted to trade a basicly new Sig P220 Elite, 3 mags, and a holster for a Savage rifle that retails at $799. Said he'd go $400 at most...says Sigs just don't sell. Does he know something I don't?
Medic,

Buy low, sell high. That is the way of the business world.

If he trades even, at the most he makes nothing while his cost for things like utilities and rent still take a toll.

Gun shops usually give you about 1/2 of what he gun would cost them if they ordered a new one. Then they up the price to almost the same as a new gun (some up it even more) and then maybe give a bit on selling.

And that is why I rarely trade guns at gun shops anymore. I'll talk them down some for a cash deal, or do a lay-away, but trade... nope.

Only with the guys in the IDPA/IPSC where I shoot will I trade guns. And we usually just do a fair trade.

Deaf

thezoltar
August 31, 2010, 09:50 PM
Sign up on http://sigforum.com/eve/forums and put it in the classifieds. The members here buy and sell all the time at reasonable prices.

CPshooter
August 31, 2010, 09:56 PM
Or you could do the obvious and sell here on THR. I've sold several guns and always received what it was worth. Why bother with the LGS???

Full Metal Jacket
August 31, 2010, 10:07 PM
They do what they can do to make money, can't really fault them for that.

The customer can always just turn and walk away.


yep, gunshops are not charitable institutions. not sure why people walk in there expecting their gun's weight in gold....

wow6599
August 31, 2010, 10:43 PM
yep, gunshops are not charitable institutions. not sure why people walk in there expecting their gun's weight in gold....
No disrespect, but $400 for a $1000 Sig with all the extras? What should one expect for that?

rscalzo
August 31, 2010, 10:43 PM
Shops around here have so many used guns they stopped taking them in. Two local very active shops barely have any room in their cases. A big turnaround from a year ago. So prices are not going to be high. Best bet is a private sale.

MikeNice
August 31, 2010, 10:49 PM
The guy said $400 because he expected you to try talking him up. He never would have traded even. He wants to make as close to double on a used gun as possible. Mainly because used guns sit on the shelf longer than new guns. That means every second it sits there it takes up room a new gun could be using. That means he is actually taking on an "opportunity cost."

Most people I know never buy used unless it is a gun they just have to have or it is a rarity.

TexasGunbie
August 31, 2010, 10:53 PM
Do you ever watch Pawn Shop on History channel??

Guy comes in with something worth 10g!

The pawn shop guy offers 2g and said "It's worth 10g at most, but if I put it in an auction to sell, it will cost me 10 percent. And I am not sure if it will sell for 10g at the auction."

Go post it on a gun trading website, you'll get better offer that way. What holster do you have? if it's only 50 bucks when you bought it, then consider it worth 10 when you do a trade, because a holster that fit you might not fit someone else.

Some people even treat holsters as freebies, unless you are talking about some nice fine cowboy leather holster.

Full Metal Jacket
August 31, 2010, 11:24 PM
No disrespect, but $400 for a $1000 Sig with all the extras? What should one expect for that?

dpends on the condition and average resale value (which is higher with older euro sigs). not to mention most gunshops sell higher than 10% over cost, especially used, despite what they tell customers.

if it's not what you're looking for, simply go to another shop, or sell it yourself.

DustyVermonter
September 1, 2010, 01:39 AM
I could never sell a gun at a gun shop.

I have a sentimental attatchment to all of my guns and would only sell them according to what they are worth to me if I absolutely had to, Which would be MSRP or higher, which is unreasonable so I don't sell guns, I buy them.

BTW, your LGS is the last place you want to go to sell a gun, gun shows too for that matter, how's that gun-show motto go: Did you just buy that beautiful work of art or are you trying to sell that POS?

DustyVermonter
September 1, 2010, 01:49 AM
My wife bought me an old pump action 12ga years ago for $150, a game warden confiscated it for "allegedly" having it in the loaded condition in my car, which technically it wasn't but anyway long story short I ended up having to pay $324 just to get it back.

So in the end a $150 shotgun quickly turned into a $500 shotgun, but I couldn't just let them keep it for its sentimental value and the fact that it was a birthday present from my wife.

BTW, when I got the shotgun back it was all dinged up and scratched from having been banging around in the back of the game wardens pick-up.....nice huh?

TIMC
September 1, 2010, 02:03 AM
No different from trading in your car, a dealer needs to make money on it so if you expect fair value sell it yourself!

bannockburn
September 1, 2010, 09:33 AM
Try selling it online as others have suggested, or maybe see if there's another gunshop in your area that will sell it on consignment.

FatPants
September 1, 2010, 09:42 AM
You also have to factor in what the dealer can buy the same gun for new. They are not going to pay as much/more for a used gun when they can get a new one from their distributer for the same price.

gearhead
September 1, 2010, 11:11 AM
Most retail stores mark up consumer goods approximately 40%. Even the Big Box stores like Wal-Mart and Home Depot mark up 22%-25% unless it’s a loss leader, and they only stock items that turn over quickly in inventory so that they can make a profit at markups that low. I’m not in business (I was born without the “Sales” gene, I couldn’t sell air conditioners in Texas…) but you’re rarely going to get even 50% of retail asking price when trading in a used firearm. As has been pointed out, there’s no reason for the dealer to pay even close to his cost for a new example of that gun or a similar one. Also, when reselling a used firearm the dealer essentially assumes responsibility for an implied warranty. That means that he’s responsible for guaranteeing the firearm functions acceptably and is suitable for its intended purpose. A dealer doesn’t know if the used firearm he’s buying is a reliable and safe item or not, beyond giving it a visual inspection and looking for obvious issues. He does know that if there are hidden issues with the firearm it’s going to cost him money to make it good or it will significantly reduce the market value.

Phydeaux642
September 1, 2010, 11:49 AM
He wants to make as close to double on a used gun as possible. Mainly because used guns sit on the shelf longer than new guns. That means every second it sits there it takes up room a new gun could be using.

Used guns sell very well in my area, and the shop makes a lot more money on used than new, so, why would they not want more used guns? I think 15% markup vs 100% markup kind of explains itself. I rarely look at new guns anymore. Most of them bore me.

MikeNice
September 1, 2010, 02:49 PM
Phy, that just goes to show how different circumstances can be in two areas. From what I've seen and heard, lately used guns aren't selling in my area. If it isn't a Colt Python or some cool surplus item it usually sits. A lot of buyers are happier buying a $275 Bersa Thunder, or $350 Taurus Mil Pro, than paying $450 for a used Glock.

If the "as new" price is $1000 then the dealer assumes he isn't going to get that price. People that shop used guns usually want to haggle down the price over anything. If there is the slightest bit of wear the negotiations begin. If the dealer says the gun has a couple hundred rounds down range, the buyer is going to say "well it isn't like new then is it?"

A dealer of anything almost never gets the full "as new" price. People will haggle it down. Plus somebody has to take time to log it in to inventory, inspect it, put it in to the ATF logs. That is money they are paying for somebody to do administrative work. That means they are lossing money because the person isn't actively selling.

Plus, like I said they always low ball expecting the person to try talking them up. The gun shop guy was probably expecting or willing to go up to $450 or $500. However, he knew that he probably couldn't get more than $750 or $800 out of the gun.

Anyway all that is a long way of saying he knows he isn't getting "as new" price when he sells. So he isn't paying you full retail for it. There are too many secondary costs and no definite selling price.

Welding Rod
September 1, 2010, 03:41 PM
To a dealer the extra mag and holster add very little resale value.

I am not familiar with that model, but my dealer sells the standard P220R for about 750 - 770.

If that was a $1,000 MSRP gun, my dealer would probably sell it for about 900 new. If the gun looked virtually new, on trade he would probably give about 700 in trade credit and resell it for about 800.

Dealers are very different. Some work on the theory of high volume, some work on the theory of making a big profit on the few sales they make.

Regional demand and the shop owners own preferences will also play a big role. My dealer carries a P220 himself and sells many based on his own recommendation. According to him, quit a few customers want to know what he carries, then that is what they buy. So he sells a lot of Sigs and a lot of 220s. Some shops are biased towards other manufacturers.

Some shops also have a base of customers / collectors who drop in regularly to picked up nice used guns. Some deal mostly in new firearms with little business in used iron.

dairycreek
September 1, 2010, 03:49 PM
My local gun shop dealer is a good friend. He maintains that, for his store, there is very little profit in new guns. He makes money on used guns because he can buy low and sell high - whatever the local market will support. So, he is a fierce trader and will always buy for as low as he can - just business, that's all. If you don't like his offer then make a counter. If you can't get a deal you like - then walk away - that's business too!

Guns and more
September 1, 2010, 06:23 PM
The gun store wants a profit on selling your gun and a profit on the one he will sell you.
I'd join the Sig forum and try to sell it there or Gunbroker.com.
Look at gunbroker to determine what the market will bear. I see a new in the box XYZ selling for $500, and next to it some guy selling his almost new XYZ and he wants $700. Well that's not realistic.
I'd move on to another gunstore and shop for the rifle elsewhere. You'd feel better than trading, then returning to find your Sig in the case with a $799 price tag on it.

The Lone Haranguer
September 1, 2010, 06:33 PM
This is typical. You will never get in a trade-in what you can sell it for yourself. He will probably turn around and price the gun he gave you $400 on for $6-700. It's just business.

litman252
September 1, 2010, 11:56 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=187874748

220 for under $800. If that was yours sitting in his safe how much does he have to gain by doing the trade?

It's a business, not all of them can make it doing GB transfers for $15, have to have profit some time to keep the lights on!

Tony

CajunBass
September 2, 2010, 12:37 AM
Well, yea. That happens.

Thatguy686
September 2, 2010, 01:11 AM
Not buying this for a second. They make MORE money if you trade in a gun like the OP's wanting to trade in. So they give you $400 for the Sig and you add another $400 on top of that for a Savage? Really.....come on. Essentially they're getting around $1000 for a Savage that probably cost them $625+/-. He will resale the Sig for $600 + the $400 you throw on top to make the deal.

Some shops are worse than used car lots.


responding to this wow6599 u realize what u just said made u sound dumb? u said he would give 400 for the sig and sell it for 600 which is 200 profit then u said he would make u pay 799 for a savage he payed 625 for and it would be 1000 dollars he made that would be like 600 which isnt alot considering ur selling a new gun for what u say 175 over cost which is cheap and buying a used gun to sit on for 2-4 months before it sells and it could end up being a money pit

postalnut25
September 2, 2010, 02:04 AM
^^^^^^^^^

You do realize that calling somebody dumb, but saying it using text-speak, does not make you sound very smart either.

Keep it clean, Attack the idea. Do not attack the other members personally.

Guns and more
September 2, 2010, 11:06 AM
It's a business, not all of them can make it doing GB transfers for $15, have to have profit some time to keep the lights on!

Tony
Seems to me the LGS was making a profit on the rifle the OP wanted to buy. He could have cut the buyer some slack on the trade.
If the OP just walked in the door to sell his Sig, that would be a different case.
The LGS was greedy. Now he risks both deals, that's why LGS's don't last.

ET
September 2, 2010, 11:26 AM
Seems to me the LGS was making a profit on the rifle the OP wanted to buy. He could have cut the buyer some slack on the trade.
If the OP just walked in the door to sell his Sig, that would be a different case.
The LGS was greedy. Now he risks both deals, that's why LGS's don't last.

When did making a profit become a bad thing? Oh, yeah that's right... big bad wall street is whats wrong with America. Gun stores have to make a profit on what they sell. If the OP didn't like the deal then WALK. Or as other posters have said negotiate. Ya'll don't get out to the flea markets (swap meets) much do ya? Profit is only made when two sides agree on a buying & selling price. If some one gets taken advantage of whose fault is that...the foe? No it's the side that let themselves get taken. Come on people buy a vowel. (get a clue)

minutemen1776
September 2, 2010, 11:35 AM
The LGS was greedy. Now he risks both deals, that's why LGS's don't last.

Very good point. Not all LGS dealers are the same. I go to one shop where the owner always offers what I consider to be fair trade-in values. With him, I know I'm not getting absolute top dollar for my trade, because I know he needs to turn a profit to operate. Yet, he also doesn't gouge me and treat me like a fool. When we deal, I feel like we both give and take a little and it's a mutually beneficial transaction.

Meanwhile, other local shops have a practice of making extreme lowball offers and are not willing to negotiate from that point at all. So, guess where I take my business? I certainly understand that a shop needs to turn a profit to stay open, but there are consequences to being heavy-handed. If I don't like the way I'm being treated, I don't just walk away from the deal--I also walk away from the shop entirely.

bartman06
September 2, 2010, 12:49 PM
I had the same problem a month ago. The first gun store i want to told me 250 each. I went to another store known for more honest pricing and got 100 and 150 more for each gun. Lesson learned. I went in with a really honest bid and was treated well by people know for their service. So next time I need to "Get some" guns or ammo I'm going to the place with a good reputation.

Maybe you can try to shop around a couple of stores and get better bids to help you get an idea on a price that will help you unload your sig.

Good Luck

IMTHDUKE
September 2, 2010, 12:54 PM
Easy way to avoid this. Never sell a gun that shoots straight. If you want another gun...find the best price and buy it.

PRM
September 2, 2010, 04:02 PM
Exactly why most of my guns are bought off of Gun Broker.

I know its business ~ but I kind of equate it to trading cars. We got a local car lot that always inflates their price and low balls the customer really bad. I don't mind someone making a few dollars, but no need to try and get their entire month's mortgage off of one sale. A few years ago a salesman asked me what I wanted for mine; I told him. He stated my car was not worth what I was asking, I told him his wasn't either.

Better off to sell what you got and then buy cash or go to an auction site. The feedback will usually give a pretty good indicator with whom you are dealing with, and there are no shortages of FFLs to do the transfer.

It also pays to not impulse buy and know your prices.

Oceans
September 2, 2010, 05:13 PM
Tell him you will buy every one he has got for $400.00 each. The '68 gun control act was the best thing that ever happened to gun dealers, a license to steal, just like the assault rifle ban was a boom to domestic manufacturers. The consumer is the one who gets screwed all the time. I can't stand most gun shops, I really can't, from the idiotic comments that the proprietors make to the chump change offers they give to people who come in. Not to mention the gun shop commandos who frequent the joints.

mgkdrgn
September 3, 2010, 04:09 AM
He screwed up...couldn't find the price in the blue book so I helped him. Saw the As new used Retail price $1k.
Well, it isn't new (now), and the gunshop can't put food on the table by buying "retail".

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