[Smiley]

My question to the fine people of THR is what do you do if you shoot one of your firearms decently well and not another one.

I can fire my Kimber .45 compact with decent accuracy however when I take my HK USP .45 compact to the range I shoot it much worse. I have toyed with the idea of selling the HK and just getting another Kimber. However, the HK is the first pistol I have ever bought and fits my hand great.

I have probably 3X the number of rounds through the HK in practice to try and compensate but I only shoot the HK half as well as the Kimber.

Any suggestions?

Anyone else ever have the same dilemma?

[hillbilly]

Sounds like you've answered your own question. I'd say go trade that HK in on another Kimber.

If you shoot a lot, and it sounds like you do, and you do know how to shoot, and I'm assuming you do, it might be the gun and not you.

I am very hesitant to ever say that, becase I've been around too many people, both informally at the range and more formally at shooting schools, who blame perfectly fine equipment for their own shortcomings.

But, if you have spent thousands of rounds trying to fingure this one out, and you do hit better with the Kimber, then maybe you do need another Kimber?

hillbilly

[euclid]

HK makes one helluva fairearm. I wouldn't get rid of it. I had a similar problem but mine was with a Kimber .45 and a Glock 23. I could shoot tight groups with the Kimber all day long. The Glock, forget it. What I came to realize is that the DA trigger pull (same would go for a DA/SA trigger) needed more work to master. I dry fired the heck out of the Glock, kept taking it to the range and found that, not only could I shoot the Glock well, but it helped me shoot me Kimber even better! Give it some time and practice and I think you'll end up shooting both of them better than you ever could before.

poof...

[Sheldon]

Is there a big weight difference in the pistols? How good is the trigger on the USP versus the Kimber? Those are the two factors I would guess that are potentially causing the differences. There is usually not much overtravel on the trigger of 1911s compared to some of the double action designs out there and that can take some getting used to.

Of course there may be a mechanical issue with the USP as well.

[HSMITH]

The USP is going to be harder to shoot.

You can sell it, live with it, or take the challenge and learn to shoot it as well as you shoot the single action.

99 out of 100 people off the street are going to find the single action 1911 easier to place hits with than the USP or a Glock or a DA revolver or a it goes on and on.

I do not like the USP in any variant, I find the Glocks to suit me a lot better in that genre of pistols. That said I would not encourage you to sell it, I highly recommend you learn to shoot it and then make your decision. What you will gain is very valuable insight into how to shoot well, and it will cross over into every other type of handgun you pick up I promise!!! A gun that is harder to shoot well will teach you more than one that is easy, and when the hard to shoot gun is your friend you can pick up anything and work with it reasonbly well. A box stock S&W revolver is a tremendously valuable training aid if people would shoot them DA long enough to learn to hit with them. It is all downhill from there, and you can shoot about anything. Shoot them SA all the time and you will still have a terrible time with DA. The scenario is basically what you have with your Kimber and USP.

[10-Ring]

If you don't shoot your USPc 45 well, sell it or trade it for something you can shoot well & don't look back! Life's too short to have regrets, especially over the guns we buy & own! ;)

[Majic]

Differences in the triggers. If you really love the USP then it can become a safe queen for sentimentality. If not then get rid of it and replace it with another single action pistol.
Most people are best served with just one trigger action to deal with instead of trying to transition from one to another.

[mdsteele]

Good advice here already.


Me, personally? I'd get rid of the one that I couldn't shoot well. Then again, I am biased against USP's. I don't shoot them well either.

[Amish_Bill]

Just like shoes, Girlfriends and diets, some will be a perfect fit for one person, but a lousy fit for another.

Most of the problem of finding a good handgun is finding a gun that fits and works with your body. Everyone's grip is a little different. The way you extend your arms, the size, length and strength of your fingers, the way your eyes focus, etc etc etc....

Most new shooters go to buy a gun saying "so and so says this is the best one, so it's what I need." They don't know enough to realize the finest weapon is no good if it's ergonomics don't match up to them. Not their gun-nut friend. Not the guy on commision behind the counter, and not the gun magazine du-jour. They have to fit the gun, and the gun has to fit them.

If a gun doesn't work well for you, sell it. If you want to keep it as a sentimental piece, then go ahead. Just don't bother shooting it. Some people swear that Glocks are the best ever. I can't shoot one right because of the grip angle, so I don't use one. I sold a S&W 6906 because the trigger pull was bad enough that I had nightmares about it. Your hardware should work like an unconcious extension of you. If you have to slow down and think or conciously compensate for it, then it's not the right hardware.

Your goal should be to find the gun that best matches your hand. Accept no substitutions and make no allowances for other criteria. If the gun doesn't perform right, don't own it.

[/rant]

[Hal]

My question to the fine people of THR is what do you do if you shoot one of your firearms decently well and not another one. LOL! Well, I'm not sure if I qualify as "one of the fine people",,,but a gentleman that does fit the description of "fine person" has a saying.

"We can neither script nor schedule our next encounter."(C.R. Sam)

I take that to mean that job number one on my part is to have what works/make what you have work. If,,, after giving a gun a fair chance to prove itself,,it still "doesn't work",,,it's outta here.

[dairycreek]

Intended use of the gun; how it fits one's hand, etc. are among two that jump right up there. I shoot SIGS really well but Glocks less so. I do okay with my Kimber but really, really well with my CZ. I practice to become competent with each of the guns I own. But, no matter how hard I practice I just do better with one gun when compared to another. That, for me, is part of the fun of shooting. But, if I consider concealed carry and personal defense then it is the CZ every time! Good shooting;)

[JiminCA]

I got rid of my HK fullsize .40 for the same reason. When I slow fired or shot SA mode, I could shoot it very accurately. I could not master the trigger however and bring any significant speed to my hits.

It was obviously a very well made, accurate, reliable firearm. I just couldn't make it work well for me.

If you decide to keep it, I would recommend that you look into the LEM trigger module. I have heard from people who shoot the HK well that it helps a lot (Bruce Gray was one of them).

In the meantime this very process has gotten me down to 1911's, BHP's, and Glocks. Keep a few revolvers for sentimental and firepower reasons. But all the SA/DA guns are either sold or spend a lot of time in the back of the safe.

[Zeke Menuar]

I have a LW Commander that I shoot very well. It has been my go to gun for years.

I have a 4" S&W M686 that I can't hit the broad side of a barn with. I should qualify that. Between 0-10 yds it does great. Outside that range forget it. I have lightened and polished every internal part I dare. I have even put the Wolff sping kit in it to lighten up the trigger pull. I keep it around because my collection isn't complete without a 357 Magnum. Gonna keep trying bullet and powder combinations untill I get it right.

ZM

[silent one]

Smiley,
Keep the Kimber, all others just don't shoot as accurately, for me anyway.
I have 7 kimbers and they are all tack drivers. All my other hand guns just sit in the safe most of the time.

good luck. ''BE SAFE''

SILENT ONE

[BlkHawk73]

Practice! When you first started shooting, more than likely, you needed to practice to achieve favorable results. Perhaps just spending time dry-firing the HK will help you learn the trigger a bit more. Are all the shots consistantly in a particulr position w/ the HK or are they just not producing as tight of a group as the Kimber?

[Sean Smith]

I personally don't have patience for hardware that makes my job of shooting harder. I'm not that great as it is; I don't need the gun providing extra obstacles for me to deal with. The abstract benefits of a gun are irrelevant if you aren't actually hitting with it.

[ksnecktieman]

I am going to jump on the side of "work with it". It is a different manual of arms, and requires different skills. May I suggest this? first, check and clear it. Then check and clear it. then put in a snap cap. sitting in your easy chair, point it at the line where the ceiling and wall meet, holding it with one hand. Slowly move the pistol left to right, or right to left as you squeeze the trigger, paying attention only to your vertical dispersion. (Keep your shots on that line where ceiling and wall meet, or any horizontal line). What you are doing is training your hand muscles to counter vertical errors. when you feel like you have improvedat this, then try it with a vertical line, like where two walls meet, and learn horizontal control. I think you will be amazed at how many muscles in your hand you have to teach to hold still when your trigger finger moves.
Good luck with it.

[Mil Novecientos Once]

I have toyed with the idea of selling the HK and just getting another Kimber.

Just do it.

[NoFear4Me]

Well, for my 2 cents, lets start by asking exactly what "not well" means?
Are we talking about a 5 shot group at 25 yards, with a difference between the 2 weapons of a couple of inches in group size? From there we can go on to diagnose the problem, be it the weapon itself or the way you are using it. I find that with most weapons, if I do my part with the sights, they shoot where they are supposed to, but sometimes I have to adjust myself to the particular weapon in question to get the desired results. Post a little more info, and I believe that collectively we can get to the bottom of this.

Toby Welch

[Island Beretta]

I currently have the same problem. I shoot so much better with the Beretta than my G19. This was at first a problem with me as I wanted to CC the G19 as it is so light. Anyway I practiced and practiced and practiced and did a number of mechanical changes to the pistol so I feel so much better with the G19 now, BUT I still shoot better with the Beretta.

Sell it if it is not working out, I would with the G19 if it could easily be done.
In my country you have to prove that the gun is defective if you want to sell it and then after this you go over all the paperwork again.

If I get to sell the G19 I would try for a P99 with 'quick action' trigger, SW99 or a HK P2000 as I still want a light compact pistol. The P99 is such a cooooolllllll pistol..balanced, accurate, ergonomic blah blah
:D

[bdhawk]

i do not care for USP's either. they are quality handguns, but i would not buy one. their bore axis is too high, they seem out of balance-top heavy, and the trigger is ho hum at best. a well fitted 1911 with a good trigger and sights is hard to beat for punchin' holes where you want 'em. saying that, a 1911 is not my choice for a carry arm. i want something that has more capacity, lighter, and less persikity with the ammo it likes.

[Series 70]

I bought a Kahr P40 a couple years ago and spent the time trying to master the combination of snappy recoil and DA trigger. I couldn't.

I can shoot my (the wife's) Python DA just fine, ditto my S&W 442. But that Kahr just got the best of me. So it's cleaned and sitting in its case in the safe waiting for me to sell it.

I figured out that with the 1911 for full-time belt carry and the 442 for pocket carry, I was mis-spending my time trying to master the P40.

Live and learn.

[uglygun]

Smiley, I had the exact same experience as you....


When I turned 21 I had a nice fat wad of cash that I was going to use to buy myself 2 nice handguns. It was only natural that I'd have a pretty large amount of cash since I spent the time between my 20th and 21st birthdays saving and reading.


I knew for a fact I wanted a 1911, wound up getting a Para Ordinance P14 Limited as it had a lot of features I wanted plus a 14 round mag capacity. That left me with a fair amount of money left over to buy something else. Before I turned 21 I had heard countless hype regaurding the HK USP and how it was so great on so many levels. I wound up buying an HK USP V1 45ACP, wanted a gun of similar size to my Para Ord. in same chambering, essentially wanted a firearm that could stand up to rugged use if need be.

Well, long story short it took me 2 years to find that the HK USP just would NOT shoot as well for me compared to my 1911. On all things that really counted to me, the 1911 held the advantage. I was could present the gun on target and fire the first round more quickly with my 1911 because it pointed better for me, compare to the USP boat anchor which I feel sits too far out of the hand and I'd have to fight to "find" the sights. Then there was the awful trigger on the USP, the double action was just awful. And finally the HK just couldn't compare accuracy wise to my 1911. It just didn't make sense to me to keep a gun that I couldn't shoot well.

After 2 years of frustration with that USP I sold it off. Get this, the final straw for me was when I put my skills with my USP up against my skills with one of my N-frame revolvers. The USP wound up losing, even shooting in double action mode with my revolvers I was scoring better than with my USP. I do have an extraordinary number of rounds through S&W revolver though, that could explain some of my angst towards the HK USP double action pull(and hate for the plastic squishy trigger).


From now on, I buy my guns after first getting hands on experience with them. The USP I bought based on the opinions of others and reputations of magazines reviewing it. Never again... Now the one thing in the HK line that I truely do like, the HK P7 series, [whistle] now there is a gun with excellent trigger pull, points very well for me, and tends to have great accuracy.

I'm a 1911 and N-frame person for life, unless I can kick up 1300 or so for a P7.

[Watch-Six]

Keep and shoot what works for you. Who cares what works for someone else. Watch-Six

[Sunray]

Sounds like the H&K doesn't fit your hand. And/or the trigger is no good. Change the grips and do the trigger if you can, but finding a smithy who does them may be a trick.

[BKP99]

I've had the same experience successively over the last decade. I would always find something that outdid the last 'best one'.
Started with a Beretta, then 1911, then BHP (for cheap 9mm). Spent $$$ on a custom BHP that was the best for me at the time.

I then bought a P99 and discovered the handfit allowed to to outshoot my custom BHP. I had some 'growing pains' but switched to the P99. After a while I recognized it's virtues. Cheaper and easier to replace and I shot it better. The last is the most important.

I let the BHP sit in the safe for a couple of years, just like the Beretta.
Recently I sold the Beretta and consigned the BHP. The money can buy other stuff, like longarms or Dan Wesson CCO's!!!

I still keep the 1911 as my efficiency with it matches my P99, ammo costs more though.

[PCRCCW]

Regardless of the situation....If you have a gun you dont shoot well....Sell it and get something you do. What good is keeping it if you cant shoot it?

Shoot well......

[CZ52GUY]

It's up to you.

I find that guns that challenge me make me better.

My CZ-75B on a bad day is about as good as my G23 on my best day...but my G23 helps me have good days because I have to work at it...same with my CZ-52.

My P95, my Mak's, my CZ-75B...my better half's BDA-380 are a joy to shoot...the other half of my autoloader collection makes me work at it...I get more joy out of a 1.25" group with the challenging guns than the easy guns...but that's just me...I like a challenge.

Best wishes,

CZ52'

[dhoomonyou]

I would sell it, for something that agrees with you.
I had a Beretta 92FS, couldnt shoot it CONSISTENTLY well.
Have a Glock 26 It's a TACK DRIVER.

[nsmike]

One possibility, check your grip, while firing the USP. Do you have the same high thumb position that you have with the Kimber? When the groups loosen up while shooting my 22/45 Ruger its because I have a lower thumb position than normal. With a 1911, shooters tend to have a high thumb position, to flick off the saftey. They tend to drop it with a DA trigger resulting in different grips and different results.
Mike

[Feanaro]

It all depends on... I would look at it as a challenge to improve my skill. I'd stick with it, try some new things. You may not want to spend the time with it, so you could sell or trade it away. You could keep it as a "safe queen." Or you could keep it and simply resign yourself to the 'fact' that it will not shoot as well as your Kimber.

[Bainx]

I'm wrestling with the same thing. I love the Glock 30 trigger and ability to double-tap pretty quickly. I am getting up to speed on a 1911 and really love the grip and controls. I can shoot it accurately but, double taps are not near as fast.
Guess I'll keep practicing.

[Dizzipator]

I faced essentially the same problem with my Compact USP .45, it was a gun that I simply couldn't shoot well.

My solution, almost two years ago, was to trade it in against some Leupold glass for my .308. I haven't missed that gun at all.

Maybe you wound up with mine? ;)

[Thinking about this makes me nostalgic for TheFiring Line. I sold my extra magazines and a holster over there a month or so after I traded the gun.]