Photos | Glock 17 Kaboom


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naalover
September 1, 2010, 10:27 PM
*UPDATE*

A lot of people have mentioned how Glock prints warnings about reloaded ammunition on their boxes... I have the original box my Dad got this 2nd Gen Glock 17 pistol in back in the early 1990's and there is no such warning.

The pistol has performed flawlessly since I switched ammo, and is a very good gun.

Last year, while shooting some factory reloaded 9mm ammunition through my Glock 17, I experienced a hand-stinging shot, and the gun jammed. The shell had ripped apart and was jamming the slide open.

Having never read about a kaboom, I just thought the gun was a piece of junk, and quit shooting it.

Fast forward a few months, and I decided to go shooting again. I put some gloves on, reloaded the gun with the same ammunition and fired off two rounds without incident. The third round went off much differently, stinging my hand with a powerful recoil. This time, I decided to keep the shell casing and do some research.

I quickly learned about kabooms, and immediately junked the rest of the Accurate Ammunition brand rounds I had. I went out and purchased some factory new rounds and have never had another problem with my Glock. I think the case was filled with a double charge and the Glock sustained no damage.

I'm more of a believer in Glock durability now than ever before. The gun is no worse for wear, and I'm convinced it had nothing at all to do with the design.

Here are some photos for those of you who think of shooting reload ammunition in your Glock:

http://www.naaminis.com/discus/messages/155/18121.jpg
http://www.naaminis.com/discus/messages/155/18122.jpg
http://www.naaminis.com/discus/messages/155/18123.jpg
http://www.naaminis.com/discus/messages/155/18124.jpg

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REAPER4206969
September 1, 2010, 10:32 PM
while shooting some factory reloaded 9mm ammunition through my Glock 17
How many times do we have to tell people to stop shooting others reloads in their Glock's (or any other weapon)? Glock should put a warning on the box...

Zak Smith
September 1, 2010, 10:39 PM
There's nothing wrong with reloads in the Glock. The problem is with junky reloads, regardless of who loaded ("remanufactured") them.

TexasGunbie
September 1, 2010, 10:44 PM
wow a survivor of two kabooms!

Zerodefect
September 1, 2010, 10:54 PM
I bet your glad that wasn't a .40 or 10mm!

I never shoot reloads that I didn't load myself. I never reload brass that isn't mine. And I rarely reload brass more than once or twice.

Having the gun go off slightly out of battery really stinks. Bad ammo scares the tar out of me. My buds make fun of me for avoiding cheap Wolf ammo in my Colt 6920, they think I'm afraid of hurting my rifle. Ha, I don't care about the stupid rifle, I'm worried about my hands!

Blueduck
September 1, 2010, 10:57 PM
I've gotta be getting close to 5,000 rounds of 40 S/W reloads :what: through my Glock 23 and 35.

Can't speak for anyone else but I'm doing fine :cool:

North Bender
September 1, 2010, 10:57 PM
It would be seriously more usefull to the forum members if you titled this thread "Accurate Ammunition Reloads Kaboom". This does not seem to be the fault of the Glock.

forindooruseonly
September 1, 2010, 11:04 PM
If I didn't reload I couldn't afford to shoot as much as I like.

REAPER4206969
September 1, 2010, 11:20 PM
I bet your glad that wasn't a .40
.40 is the same pressure as standard 9x19 and much lower pressure than +P/+P+ 9x19.

LawofThirds
September 1, 2010, 11:27 PM
Yeah, as much as I am enamored with the .40 Glocks tendency to violently cease operations, this isn't the fault of the gun at all and is simply a poor reload that the gun has channeled in the proper direction.

There's a reason you shouldn't trust other people's reloads.

DrLaw
September 1, 2010, 11:29 PM
Oh, those cases look like they just need a little resizing. Should be good for 20-30 more reloads. Maybe some Superglue.




:neener:

Yeah, somebody goofed. :scrutiny:

The Doc is out now. :cool:

dawico
September 1, 2010, 11:33 PM
That must be a very weak case. The primer doesn't show excessive pressure signs, even though that isn't a guarantee of not having excessive pressure.

TH3180
September 1, 2010, 11:34 PM
I want to make sure I understand here. That ammo is reloaded brass that someone else reloaded?

naalover
September 1, 2010, 11:36 PM
Reaper: In my defense, the gun is a 2nd Gen G17, and it had been in my Dad's gun safe for the better part of a decade before I took it out to shoot it. I hadn't yet taken my CCW course (I took hunter's safety but no pistol specific courses), and my research into Glock and other brands of pistols hadn't begun in earnest. In all my years, this was a new experience for me.

I would imagine there are a lot of people out there with similar circumstances. I don't think most people search for information on many things unless something goes wrong.

North Bender
September 1, 2010, 11:49 PM
So ... with bad ammo, it's the fault of the gun?

Gord
September 1, 2010, 11:52 PM
Seriously, at this point shouldn't there be some massive class action lawsuit against Accurate Ammunition?

naalover
September 1, 2010, 11:53 PM
From Reaper above: "How many times do we have to tell people to stop shooting others reloads in their Glock's (or any other weapon)? Glock should put a warning on the box..."

I never said it was the fault of the gun. Reaper asked how many times people need to be told not to shoot reloads. For me, it was once I read up on it.

The box of ammo doesn't even mention the reload bit. I figured it out when I noticed the shell casings were two different colors.

naalover
September 1, 2010, 11:54 PM
Seriously, at this point shouldn't there be some massive class action lawsuit against Accurate Ammunition?
Lawsuits just drive up prices for everyone else...

REAPER4206969
September 1, 2010, 11:58 PM
I would imagine there are a lot of people out there with similar circumstances. I don't think most people search for information on many things unless something goes wrong.
I'm not busting your balls, I'm just trying to get through to people. Never shoot other peoples reloads. Even if they are "factory re-manufactured."

bds
September 2, 2010, 12:00 AM
factory reloaded 9mm ammunition
That brass and rim scratches look awfully abused to look like a "factory reloaded" - who reloaded "that" old looking brass?
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=126991&stc=1&d=1283399994

naalover
September 2, 2010, 12:04 AM
I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the photos. The box they came from is behind the bullets. Accurate Ammunition is the name on the box. It's pretty old stuff, but the warning on the back says:

"This ammunition is produced for firearms in good condition, originally chambered for this cartridge. We have used reasonable care in the manufacture of this ammunition, but make no other warranty, expressed or implied."

There's your tell right there!

Sapper771
September 2, 2010, 12:09 AM
I am with Forindooruseonly.

I like to shoot, but don't make a lot of money. Reloading has given me the opportunity to still shoot a lot without spending a great deal of money.

In response to your last statement of the OP:
My G17 has close to 3,000 rounds of reloaded ammo fired through it with no Kabooms. My G21 has nearly 2,000 rounds of reloaded ammo fired through it with no kabooms. My G19 has 600 rounds of reloaded ammo through it with no kabooms. Ditto the G26 and G34. Outside of factory PD ammo,

That Doesn't mean it can't happen. It also means that factory ammo is not 100% safe. If you reload, good QC is crucial regardless of the make or model of the firearm.

Take that same ammo and fire it in a M&P, XD, or BHP and see what happens......prob the same thing that happened when it was fired in a glock.

DustyVermonter
September 2, 2010, 01:10 AM
Quote: "Glock should put a warning on the box"

Glock does actually have a warning against shooting reloads stuck right to the inside of the Glock box in BIG RED BOLD LETTERS it says DO NOT USE RELOADED OR REMANUFACTURED AMMUNITION!!!

REAPER4206969
September 2, 2010, 01:18 AM
Glock does actually have a warning against shooting reloads stuck right to the inside of the Glock box in BIG RED BOLD LETTERS it says DO NOT USE RELOADED OR REMANUFACTURED AMMUNITION!!!
http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_wink.gif

Jed Carter
September 2, 2010, 04:26 AM
You should edit this thread from Glock 17 Kaboom to my cheap Ultramax ammo kaboom. I would bet the G17 still works fine, but you may want to send it back to Glock to be checked.

Full Metal Jacket
September 2, 2010, 04:47 AM
How many times do we have to tell people to stop shooting others reloads in their Glock's (or any other weapon)? Glock should put a warning on the box...

yep. ultramax is reloaded. plenty of folks shoot reloads in their glocks, and press their luck doing so. their line of thinking is "well it hasn't blown up yet"....



There's nothing wrong with reloads in the Glock. The problem is with junky reloads, regardless of who loaded ("remanufactured") them.

shooting any kind of weakened brass through an autopistol with generous chamber specs and diminished case support is never a good idea.

jon_in_wv
September 2, 2010, 05:33 AM
I agree with some of the above posters. This is a case head seperation, NOT a kaboom. If the weapon is intact then it did its job perfectly.

KurtC
September 2, 2010, 09:10 PM
The extractor marks on the rim indicate that the case has been reloaded a good number of times. However, the primer does not look like it was overcharged. The case expansion is pretty far forward, and I would not be suprised if it fired out of battery. I would be very curious to know how this particular pistol fairs in the future, regardless of the type of ammunition used.

greyeyezz
September 2, 2010, 09:15 PM
Shoot junk ammo out of your Hi-point. If you can afford a Glock, Sig, HK then you can afford decent range ammo.

Squidbert
September 3, 2010, 04:54 AM
I think I'd feel safer shooting "junk" ammo through my Sig or M&P versus a Hi-Point...

On another note - although that casing looks horribly haggard, does anyone else think things may have went a little more smoothly had the barrel's chamber been fully supported?

Bobandshawn
September 3, 2010, 12:50 PM
There's nothing wrong with reloads in the Glock. The problem is with junky reloads, regardless of who loaded ("remanufactured") them.
I know I don't have many posts on this particular forum...but why would a moderator directly contradict the manufacturer of a specific weapon. It has been well established that Glock says "NO" to reloads???

~Bob

FLAvalanche
September 3, 2010, 12:58 PM
I know I don't have many posts on this particular forum...but why would a moderator directly contradict the manufacturer of a specific weapon. It has been well established that Glock says "NO" to reloads???


Because there is a big difference between a firearm simply not working with reloads and a company saying not to do it because their lawyers tell them to in order to cover their butts when people stuff doublecharged reloads into them and expect Glock to pay for their doctor bills.

Zak Smith
September 3, 2010, 01:10 PM
I know I don't have many posts on this particular forum...but why would a moderator directly contradict the manufacturer of a specific weapon. It has been well established that Glock says "NO" to reloads???
You're going to be hard pressed to find a firearms manufacturer that sanctions, let alone endorses, the use of other than commercially-loaded ammunition in their guns for the reasons of liability and warranty.*

There is nothing physically different between a properly loaded round made by a private individual and a round from a major ammo manufacturing company. It is a bad idea to shoot a lot of unjacketed lead through a a Glock polygonal barrel, but that is a separate issue. Certainly there is a set of established procedures and best practices for loading or reloading that should be followed, and it's not an activity for absentminded, reckless, or non-detail-oriented people.

However, people who follow the former and do not fall under the latter have shot millions of reloads in Glocks and the experience bears out the first sentence of my second paragraph.


* here's two more that don't:

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsContent/documents/1201073%20OPERATORS%20MANUAL%20220%20226%20229%20239%20REV%2001%20LR.pdf

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:jnUzIW_nxZcJ:www.hk-usa.com/-images/shared/USP%2520Manual%2520REV%25203-07.pdf+hk+pistol+manual&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi2VS8KewXDgWllQ-dsxnhEKel0Ai_aNVv2X2YeEGKyRynmF1rAgRk-Vsn6jR4oFfNA0maRdHRugqZu0wet4BGorRpd5dU2-kifLiMKmq5beIOmNk4NgJlYQamz1FxZoCeRj-sY&sig=AHIEtbQ10ZDMjFmKXpvb4rVKQBJFzzbEvg

Fastcast
September 3, 2010, 01:36 PM
shooting any kind of weakened brass through an autopistol with generous chamber specs and diminished case support is never a good idea.

That has a lot to do with this Glock phenomenon and I'm glad you mentioned it. You saved me a bit of typing. :) ....... Giving up strength for some perceived, extra reliability. :rolleyes:

Many of other brands (Sig, Colt, CZ, Beretta, Springfield, etc) shoot these half assed reloads and don't commonly explode to pieces. :what:

sonier
September 3, 2010, 01:47 PM
Thats why I dont want a glock, even if it survived the kabooms as you called it. That should not have had happened in the first place. Untill glock fixes there issues with reloaded ammunition im not ever going to get a glock and will always advocate against it.

Ledgehammer
September 3, 2010, 02:05 PM
Why shoot reloads when you can get federal fmj at walmart for 9.47 a box. That's pretty darn cheap.

Roswell_Kid
September 3, 2010, 02:10 PM
Zerodefect - I never shoot reloads that I didn't load myself.

LawOfThirds - There's a reason you shouldn't trust other people's reloads.

Zak Smith - The problem is with junky reloads, regardless of who loaded ("remanufactured") them.

+1. 99% of the time, buying someone elses attempt at economizing anything is a bad idea. In this case of ammunition, it can involve injury to the user or worse yet a bystander. Why is this so hard for some people to understand?

sonier
September 3, 2010, 02:17 PM
There may be 9mm for 10 bucks a box at walmart, but that dosnt mean anything to me. I reload because I was shooting ammo when you couldnt find any on the wallmart shelves. Relaoding ensures me to be able to stockpile ANY type of ammunition universalize componets with other calibers, make match grade ammunition which that wal mart crap is not. ALSO With me not shopping at walmart, im not supporting a corporation that dosnt give a rats ass about "We the people"

AK103K
September 3, 2010, 03:33 PM
Untill glock fixes there issues with reloaded ammunition im not ever going to get a glock and will always advocate against it.
I shoot 3-500 rounds a week of my reloads out of my Glocks. Have for years. Never had any issues with them.

What is this problem you speak of? :)


ALSO With me not shopping at walmart, im not supporting a corporation that dosnt give a rats ass about "We the people"
Oh, I dont know. They are still pretty much the cheapest out there for 9mm. Hows that not supporting us? Would you prefer they overcharge us, like some shops do, and some of them, by selling ammo they bought at Walmart at a higher price no less?

sonier
September 3, 2010, 03:36 PM
Even if wallmart is 10 bucks a box, Id much rather pay 15 bucks at a private owned gunshop, than have wallmart put them out of buisness.

Ledgehammer
September 3, 2010, 04:37 PM
Meh - trust me, I spend plenty of money in my local shop. Buying my range ammo from walmart isn't going to put anybody out of business lol - the profit margin is so slim on range ammo it's a wonder the lgs even stocks it anymore.

Now if walmart start selling glock 23's for $350. Then I'd get worried.

DustyVermonter
September 3, 2010, 06:17 PM
Anybody else find sonier's sig line quite humerous givin the nature of this discussion.

Sonier advocating against Glock is inadvertantly helping keep Glock's prices down just about as much as buying range ammo at wally world is putting LGS's out of business.

I'd say out of the millions of Glock in world wide circulation probably less than a tenth of one percent have had issues with their functionality(not ergos and cosmetic appearance).


Name me 1 other manufaturer than can........

sonier
September 3, 2010, 07:29 PM
The fact that glocks cant handle most reloads, while most others can is enough for me :)

Zak Smith
September 3, 2010, 07:42 PM
The fact that glocks cant handle most reloads, while most others can is enough for me
False.

Guess, what the manual for your Colt Python says the following:
CAUTION USE ONLY ORIGINAL HIGH QUALITY COMMERCIALLY MANUFACTURED AMMUNITION IN GOOD CONDITION

http://gunshowonthenet.com/Gun_Manuals/Colt_Python.pdf

It's right on the second page of that PDF.

So you might want to rethink your whole argument a little bit.

sonier
September 3, 2010, 07:43 PM
Truth is theres more glock kabooms than python kabooms lol :)

Zak Smith
September 3, 2010, 08:04 PM
Can we assume since you changed the subject from your statement that "fact that glocks cant handle most reloads, while most others can" to something different that you're giving up that point and concede?

Truth is theres more glock kabooms than python kabooms lol
Since at least 10x Glocks have been made than Pythons and comparing raw numbers would be meaningless, you must have data that reflects the total circulation of both types of handguns and the total number of "kabooms."

Dulvarian
September 3, 2010, 08:47 PM
I think I have to agree with Zak.

REAPER4206969
September 3, 2010, 09:06 PM
Many of other brands (Sig, Colt, CZ, Beretta, Springfield, etc) shoot these half assed reloads and don't commonly explode to pieces.
Yes they do. Put this ammo in any firearm and the results will be similar.

DustyVermonter
September 3, 2010, 09:19 PM
It is common knowledge that Glocks are pure trash(sarcasm).

bds
September 3, 2010, 09:22 PM
I think in keeping with THR principles, this thread should focus more on not shooting questionable reloads regardless of what the box says - Who knows, somebody "may" have put their junky reloads in the box and claimed it was "remanufactured" and sell them to someone unsuspecting. :rolleyes:

I reload my own and get suspicious of other reloads that are out of spec and looks like the OP picture - I mean look at the case surface and rim, did the reloader even tumble the brass? :( My cases get tossed long before they even look like that.

Be safe.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=126991&stc=1&d=1283399994

Zak Smith
September 3, 2010, 09:26 PM
The only squib I have ever had in a centerfire handgun was a factory S&B 9mm round. In the dim recesses of time, I once got a .41AE round in with a bunch of "remanufactured" .40SW. That didn't work well either.

noylj
September 3, 2010, 09:43 PM
The main thing is that this is NOT the regular case failure due to lack of support. Isn't the case supposed to be too thick at the extractor groove for the failure to be where it is?
I will try to post a picture of a case failure in my S&W M52. The load was not excessive (i.e., the gun farted rather then spitted and it felt like a squib at first).

billybob44
September 3, 2010, 10:47 PM
I think I'd feel safer shooting "junk" ammo through my Sig or M&P versus a Hi-Point...

On another note - although that casing looks horribly haggard, does anyone else think things may have went a little more smoothly had the barrel's chamber been fully supported?
My same thought.. Yes the loads are junk--BUT??.......???My CZ does not spit out swelled brass like that??

DustyVermonter
September 3, 2010, 11:00 PM
I think that the quality and integrity of the firearm plays a legitimate role in a discussion such as this, but not in this case.

When I see any of these Glock xx kaboom stories and especially with a G17 kaboom, I would and always will put all the money to my name to an 'out of spec' loading being the cause, or at least some kind of user error element involved, JMO

HisSoldier
September 3, 2010, 11:00 PM
On another note - although that casing looks horribly haggard, does anyone else think things may have went a little more smoothly had the barrel's chamber been fully supported?

I say it's a conspiracy. Somehow people who hate Glocks are making sure Glock owners get all the bad ammo. :rolleyes:

Zak Smith
September 3, 2010, 11:37 PM
Like this SIG kaboom
http://ingunowners.com/forums/handguns/67551-sig_p220_and_wolf_kaboom.html

and this revolver (S&W) kaboom
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=33&t=66328

and this other revolver (Colt) kaboom
http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-30532.html

Walther .40
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?109870-First-Documented-Walther-PPS-.40-S-amp-W-Kaboom-Reported-on-PPS-Talk

HK 45 USP
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hk-kb.html

918v
September 3, 2010, 11:41 PM
If the brass case is defective, it will fail. Could be the above case was defective where it let go. Could be that bullet setback is to blame. Could be alot of things.

Tommorrow I'll try to go to the range and reload a FC 9mm case 25 times straight using a moderate load.

North Bender
September 4, 2010, 01:23 AM
Reaper wrote: "I never said it was the fault of the gun."

Well, yes you did. By calling the thread a "Glock Kaboom". All this hot air was caused by bad ammo and people supporting/bashing Glocks. This is a total waste of internet space, but some folks may have learned something about the Accurate Ammunition brand of reloads.

REAPER4206969
September 4, 2010, 02:42 AM
Reaper wrote: "I never said it was the fault of the gun."
Oh ya?

North Bender
September 4, 2010, 02:44 AM
Oh ya

REAPER4206969
September 4, 2010, 03:19 AM
Oh ya
Is someone confused?

Old Shooter
September 4, 2010, 07:50 AM
I reload my own and get suspicious of other reloads that are out of spec and looks like the OP picture - I mean look at the case surface and rim, did the reloader even tumble the brass? My cases get tossed long before they even look like that.

+1 to this. What seems to be a poor reload judging by the pictures should never had made it past any sort of QC and would not have gone into any of my guns. Who knows how many times that piece of brass had been loaded and how hot?

A bad enough reload can tear apart any gun and if you happen to chamber the previoulsly weakened part of the brass against the least supported portion of your chamber it's even more likely to happen.

I buy most of my ammo at Wal-Mart for the $10 price mentioned and have had very good results with it. I also buy from my LGS every time I stop in, if even just to bat the breeze, a box or two of his $15-$20 ammo.

I don't mind spreading the wealth, it's just that I don't have all that much wealth to spread :)

TH3180
September 4, 2010, 09:12 AM
some folks may have learned something about the Accurate Ammunition brand of reloads.
Out of three pages that is all I have learned from this thread.

wanderinwalker
September 4, 2010, 03:02 PM
Calling this a *KABOOM* is erroneous at best. You have a case head failure, but the G-17 involved is still ticking. A true *KABOOM* would have grenaded your pistola.

Case failures happen. Sometimes I get case splits in my S&W revolvers. Some brass just lets go from time to time. It's not overpressure, the chambers aren't oversized, the cases just can't take it any more. That's what I see happening here. I've seen factory Remington .45-70s give out in Marlin and TC chambers (not dramatically, you only notice it when you see the slit in the side of the case picking them up after) and I've seen .223 case necks split in match chambers. It happens.

OH, and FWIW, though I doubt it means anything to the "unsupported" chamber people, I have seen an exact duplicate of this kind of case failure in a Taurus PT-99 as well. Twice. It still worked after too. And the Glock 9mm chamber is no more "unsupported" than most other 9mm designs. They're no more hazardous than any other 9mm chambered firearms, and probably safer than others.

Full Metal Jacket
September 4, 2010, 04:17 PM
Well, yes you did. By calling the thread a "Glock Kaboom". All this hot air was caused by bad ammo and people supporting/bashing Glocks. This is a total waste of internet space, but some folks may have learned something about the Accurate Ammunition brand of reloads.

i don't see glock bashing. i see people informing others that it's not safe to fire reloads through their glocks.

the term "kaboom" is used when a shell splits and blows out a glock, it doesn't infer a cause.

the "case head" didn't fail, as you put it. the bottom of the shell split open. you're free to call it whatever you like, it's a free country.

Buck Snort
September 4, 2010, 09:21 PM
Zerodefect wrote: "I bet your glad that wasn't a .40 or 10mm." You might add 45 ACP, 475 Linebaugh and S&W 500!!

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