NYPD looking for public comments


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mrreynolds
September 2, 2010, 11:29 PM
Now is the time for "everyone" I don't care what State you're in if you have a legitimate comment please use the link to send the NYPD your opinion. The more comments the better I want them to be overwhelmed at how much the Country pays attention to New York City's lack of respect for the 2A!

NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT

Notice of Opportunity to Comment on Proposed Rule Amendment Pursuant to Charter Sections 434(b) and 1043

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORITY VESTED IN the New York City Police Department by Sections 434(b) and 1043 of the New York City Charter that the New York City Police Department intends to adopt amendments to its rules pertaining to Handgun Licenses, Rifle/Shotgun Permits and Organizations Possessing Rifles and Shotguns.

Written comments regarding these amendments may be sent to the office of the Deputy Commissioner, Legal Matters, One Police Plaza, Room 1406, New York, New York 10038, on or before September 15, 2010. Members of the public may also submit comments on the rule electronically through NYC RULES at www.nyc.gov/nycrules. A public hearing will be held on September 22, 2010, from 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM, at One Police Plaza, 1st Floor Auditorium, New York, New York 10038. Persons seeking to testify are requested to notify the Deputy Commissioner, Legal Matters at the foregoing address. Persons who request that a sign language interpreter or other form of reasonable accommodation for a disability be provided at the hearing are asked to notify the Deputy Commissioner, Legal Matters at the foregoing address by September 15, 2010. Written comments and a summary of oral comments received at the hearing will be available for public inspection, within a reasonable time after receipt, between the hours of 9:00 AM and 5:00 PM at the office of the Deputy Commissioner, Legal Matters. This proposed rule did not appear in the Department's regulatory agenda because promulgation of the rule was not anticipated at the time of publication of said agenda.

Proposed changes [LINK] (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycrules/downloads/rules/P_NYPD_09_01_10_a.pdf)

Comments can be made here [LINK] (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycrules/html/proposed/proposed.shtml)

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clem
September 3, 2010, 12:53 AM
Here is my comment;

"What part of, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, do you not understand?"

Izzy77
September 4, 2010, 05:55 PM
"(a) The applicant has been arrested, indicted or convicted for [any] a crime or violation except minor traffic violations, in any [jurisdiction,] federal, state or local jurisdiction."

So just being arrested is grounds for denial... :barf::barf:

Innocent untill proven guilty does not apply in NYC.

robhof
September 4, 2010, 06:16 PM
Unless you're a foreign terrorist!!!

P.O.2010
September 4, 2010, 08:11 PM
I honestly hope that the Mayor and City Council are stupid and short sighted enough to enact these proposed regulatory changes.

Denying someone the ability to possess a firearm because:

a) "...has been an unlawful user of... a controlled substance or marijuana."
Translation: one use of marijuana at age 16 means you can never possess a firearm.
b) "The applicant has a history of one or more prior incidents of domestic violence."
Translation: You are not convicted of assault but Police once responded to your home for a loud argument; therefore you can never possess a firearm. Note the use of the word history not conviction.
c) "The applicant has been terminated from employment under circumstances that demonstrate lack of good judgment..."
Translation: If you are dismissed because of disputes with co-workers, personality conflicts, difficulty learning your job, being an abrasive personality you can never possess a firearm. This phrase is completely open ended and meaningless.
d) "Other information demonstrates...a lack of candor towards lawful authorities..."
Translation: One night a Police Officer stopped you without probable cause under the common law right of inquiry and you asserted your right to go home instead of back to the precinct with him. Now you can never possess a firearm. Nothing about a conviction for perjury. Nothing specific at all just another open ended phrase that allows for unlimited denial.

Let the Mayor be stupid enough to let this go through. He will, in official documents, articulate an abitrary and capricious standard for licensing based on reasons that cannot be used to deny the exercise of a fundamental right. This moron is just like Mayor Daley, sinking his own ship without even knowing it due to his own arrogance. Carry on Mr. Mayor, carry on. More ammo for SAF to use in court when and if they sue this moron.

medalguy
September 4, 2010, 11:51 PM
This is a really GOOD reason to live in Texas!!!

altitude_19
September 5, 2010, 12:45 AM
I will NEVER go to that city on anything other than government orders. Here's my submission:
YOU MUST HAVE LOST YOUR MINDS!!! Virtually every element of the proposed rules allows for arbitrary interpretation and premit denial to virtuallty any applicant without good cause. Other than honorable conditions in the US military is not even a misdeameanor equivelant and you mean to make that prohibitive or require explanation?! It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS why a service member was discharged without having been convicted of any crime! I'd be ineligible because my gun was stolen?! You are big on blaming the victim aren't you? So if somebody pries my gun safe up from my basement floor and opens it with plasma cutters, I can never own a gun again?! Because I was the victim of theft?! It's obvious you WANT these rules to be prohibitive to virtually ANYONE the city official receiving the application doesn't like. These rules are unreasonable at best and arguably unconstitutional. FORGET YOUR CHANGES and while you are at it repeal the idiotic regulation you already have on the books.

bushmaster1313
September 5, 2010, 02:50 AM
They can deny a permit if you have been merely arrested for a crime or violation!


(a) The applicant has been arrested, indicted or convicted for [any] a crime or violation except minor traffic violations, in any [jurisdiction,] federal, state or local jurisdiction.

Cearbhall
September 5, 2010, 08:01 AM
NYPD looking for public comments that support the NYPD violating the Constitution.

A slight correction there.

hso
September 5, 2010, 05:48 PM
A citizen must be convicted of a crime to be denied any enumerated right. To do so is un-Constitutional because it violates due process.

jdrink
September 23, 2010, 01:03 AM
Bloomberg is trying everyhting he can to make possession of guns in NYC illegal. If you look at all of the restrictions on granting a license, most NYPD police officers would probably not be able to carry a gun. Yet another reason I am glad I live in the south, and will not be visiting NYC.

Shovelhead
September 23, 2010, 08:00 AM
Maybe they're just trolling for firearm owner's IPs.

Carl N. Brown
September 23, 2010, 08:49 AM
In Fordham Urban Law Journal (Nov 1998), Suzanne Novak, Fordham U NY,
discussed the shortcomings of the New York Sullivan Act in
"Why the New York State System for Obtaining a License to Carry a
Concealed Weapon is Unconstitutional", from purely due process and
equal justice under the law grounds:

ABSTRACT

The New York State administrative system for obtaining a license
to carry a concealed weapon violates the state constitution and
the tenets of administrative law vital to a democratic society.
The New York State Legislature has delegated the important power
to grant licenses to carry a concealed weapon ("carry licenses")
to city and county administrative officials. Because the
legislature has not devised sufficient guidelines to implement
its will, this grant of power is improper. Moreover,
administrative officials acting without proper guidelines proceed
beyond their constitutional authority. The license determination
process and the accompanying disclosure rules are unfair to
license applicants. As a result, persons denied carry licenses
are not afforded meaningful judicial review. ....

A constitutional RKBA argument will not work in New York.
New York State is one of the few states that does not have a
state Right to Keep and Bear Arms constitutional provision
(for example, the Tennessee state constitution Article 1 Section 26,
guarantees the citizens of the the state have the right to keep and
bear arms for defense of themselves which includes self defense
and voluntary militiary service and does not exclude other
traditional lawful uses of guns).

A due process and equal justice argument might have some traction
in New York.

http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/novak.pdf

Yarddog
September 23, 2010, 09:01 AM
NYC POLICE Waveing At em Both hands with ONE FINGER ; )
Y/D

Carl N. Brown
September 23, 2010, 09:15 AM
(a) The applicant has been arrested, indicted or convicted for [any] a crime or violation except minor traffic violations, in any [jurisdiction,] federal, state or local jurisdiction.

At my gun club we have a member who was arrested at a routine traffic stop for having the same first and last name as a wanted fugitive: he was released because it was mistaken identity. He has to file an appeal on a 4473 because the background check kicks him out on a fugitive arrest charge. He has to carry and send copies of the court papers for the rest of his life, based on a mistaken identity arrest.

We have another member who was put under ATF investigation because after he got is FFL, it turned up he was a suspect in a hotel robbery. He has to keep in his safe a videotape of TBI investigator Keesling explaining that at the time night clerks at hotels were treated as suspects in hotel robberies until cleared by investigation (and he was cleared as a suspect) because of a presumption that hotel robberies were inside jobs until evidence established otherwise.

http://volokh.com is carrying ads for a book "One Nation Under Arrest" explaining how rapidly we are all becoming guilty of something whether we realise it or not.

The gun and knife laws are becoming like jailhouse rules on weapons for a reason: society is being reformed on the model of a prison with all of us as inmates (and we know how safe it is among prison population).

Kent Militia
September 23, 2010, 03:58 PM
This paraghraph worries me about the state of the Constitution's abuse in New York:

"(l) The applicant has failed to pay legally required debts such as child support, taxes, fines or penalties imposed by governmental authorities."

I live in the Uk and am a legal gun owner. As anyone know getting a gun permit in the Uk is probably one of the hardest things to do, bar living in China where guns are banned from civilian ownership. However even in the Uk, having unspent fines will not disqualify me from getting a shotgun or rifle licence?

This regulation in America with the most liberal gun laws? MADNESS I say!

Carl N. Brown
September 23, 2010, 06:50 PM
Americans who have to know and abide by the 20,000 gun laws in the US are often amused by the overseas misconception that all America has liberal gun laws.

Many parts of the USA, especially New York State, have gun laws crafted by political liberals who hate guns, and gun owners, and use NRA as a four letter word. Our Garry Wills on gun control sounds like Rebecca Peters of IANSA or Anne Pearston of the UK guncontrol network.

kingpin008
September 25, 2010, 04:44 PM
Maybe they're just trolling for firearm owner's IPs.

Remove your tinfoil hat, please. If they wanted to know the whereabouts of gun owners in NY, they have plenty of documentation already. And knowing the whereabouts of out-of-state gun owners does them no good whatsoever.

DenaliPark
September 25, 2010, 05:07 PM
"(a) The applicant has been arrested, indicted or convicted for [any] a crime or violation except minor traffic violations, in any [jurisdiction,] federal, state or local jurisdiction."

So just being arrested is grounds for denial... :barf::barf:

Innocent untill proven guilty does not apply in NYC.
Of course, NYC, and the east coast in general, are the red beating heart of anti-freedom, statist elitism in America! The majority of gun owners in NYC are just as likely to be as anti-2nd as are their lords & masters in city & state government.

Shovelhead
September 28, 2010, 05:39 PM
Remove your tinfoil hat, please. If they wanted to know the whereabouts of gun owners in NY, they have plenty of documentation already. And knowing the whereabouts of out-of-state gun owners does them no good whatsoever.
:scrutiny:

My comment was posted with tongue placed firmly in cheek.
Don't get your panties in a twist. :neener:

staggerlee213
October 14, 2010, 06:08 AM
My favorite part has to be this:

(k) The applicant has demonstrated an inability to safely store firearms, such as through a history of lost/stolen firearms.

So you suffer being the victim of burglary and then you are punished for it too.

robertbartsc
November 2, 2010, 03:54 PM
I live in Westchester NY and the gun laws are more strick than NYC. Applicants are told (1) not to apply for carry permits because they are NEVER given for any reason, and (2) if you submit this paperwork it will become lost.

Bob M.
November 2, 2010, 04:56 PM
Typical nyc anti-2nd amendment gun hater crap. :cuss:

whalerman
November 2, 2010, 10:10 PM
Kingpin, go easy on your cliches. You clearly do not live in NY State, or you wouldn't joke about Shovelhead's barb. There is no end to what this state will do to deny gun rights to its citizens. The danger of this was stated previously. Local bureaucrats are given complete subjective control over the "granting" of constitutional rights. And in this state, our constitution is a "living, breathing document", as they like to say. Meaning it can mean whatever they want it to mean. One common and increasingly popular means of denial is to search divorce records. If there is evidence of anger issues, then what did the applicant do to address those issues. Did they seek counseling? If not, why not? How long did they continue anger counseling? Should such counseling be resumed? Never mind if the said divorce was a decade or two ago. And never mind if there were never any arrests or record of incidents before, during, or afterwards. It only takes the report of one social worker.

I would make this suggestion to anyone who travels to NY, the city especially. If you dare arm yourself, bring a small quantity of drugs with you. Cocaine, meth, doesn't really matter. That way, if you're arrested, they throw out the gun charge and put you into drug counseling. It beats facing a serious rap on a firearms conviction. Treatment seems to be the fashionable thing in Bloomberg's city.

Cap'n Jack Burntbeard
November 3, 2010, 04:48 AM
I would make this suggestion to anyone who travels to NY, the city especially. If you dare arm yourself, bring a small quantity of drugs with you. Cocaine, meth, doesn't really matter. That way, if you're arrested, they throw out the gun charge and put you into drug counseling. It beats facing a serious rap on a firearms conviction. Treatment seems to be the fashionable thing in Bloomberg's city.

Oh god, that made my day
By the way, greetings from the free state of vermont.

xcgates
November 3, 2010, 07:35 AM
You know, when I lived in and went to school in NY, several of my good friends were Vermonters, and I would give them all kinds of ribbing about being from Vermont, but they always knew they held the final trump card. No matter what I said, VT has better gun-related laws, and boy did they know it.:o

grubbylabs
November 15, 2010, 11:42 AM
It is good to live in Idaho, so what happened with all their public comment, did they implement the law changes?

TexasBill
November 21, 2010, 09:16 AM
Funny thing is, they ask you if you have ever been arrested in Texas, too. If you weren't convicted and are not a fugitive from justice, I would think that pretty well covers the legitimate concerns because a record of a conviction or an outstanding warrant are readily available. Child support and back state taxes were also grounds for denial of a CHL. Child support still is.

benEzra
November 21, 2010, 01:32 PM
Just a quick reminder to please keep this focused on activism, in line with the original post. There is certainly plenty worth complaining about in NY/NYC gun laws, but Activism isn't the proper location for it.

mrreynolds, any news on this?

mrreynolds
November 21, 2010, 01:56 PM
ben Ezra:

So far: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=553793

1stmarine
December 7, 2010, 01:38 AM
Nonsense guns laws are there and they will be challenged. If you have a criminal record then live with the consequences. I thin that to make some allowances and have certain control and education is ok. In the end kids that had misdemeanors and conduct issues later became great leaders in the military and died for out country, many times.

I mention education since I have seen things at the range that should never happened if the person had some minimal education (including certification) about what to do or not to do would have been paramount. In the end truck drivers have tough tests and I do no see truck being more dangerous than guns in the wrong hands.

The issue that worry many US Citizens is if somebody someday will take away our freedom of speech or our guns. The answer is not, same way nobody cannot put you in jail for having an opinion or for you color, religion, cultural background, etc... because any laws that go against the constitution eventually will fail and those trying to enforce other laws against the supreme law of the land might eventually be removed or face persecution and this include military police and anyone.

Remember it was ok for a law enforcement officer to beat up color people by or to persecute almost anyone with liberal ideas as communist during the cold word. That's why Edward W.Murrow took it to Senator McCarthy. Or what about AMERICANS from Japonese neighborhoods arrested in concentration camps during WWII?

The best you can do is whenver you see a military, police, ranger, fireman, medic, active or retired point them to this website. http://oathkeepers.org Educate your kids, family and friends about the history of this country, the history, the struggle for liberty, Thomas Jeferson and the constitution. In these days of economic uncertainty and political corruption it is good to go back to basis.

Do not trust anyone doing politics with your rights to free speech or to gather in a pacific manner, or to discuss why every homestead in America should have a firearm to defend your home and your loved ones.

I voted for republicans and for democrats too and I am a pro-gun person. Not possible? why? The right to own guns have nothing to do with being democrat or being republican or being whatever. It is above all that since it is in the constitution. Those who try to make you believe is the top of your agenda are the ones that should be questioned.

Lots of kids are coming back from 4 tours overseas without legs or w/o their souls and we should be more worry about this than anything else right now. Same thing when a local police or fireman has to loose the job because some goon in Albany or Washington messed up government budgets and didn't think before overspending like crazy.

Support Our Military our Police, Fire and medics.

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