Splitting the rifle thread


PDA






ArtP
September 3, 2010, 02:06 PM
Is it time to split the rifle thread into two categories? Hunting/sporting and defense/military. Perhaps some rifles blur the lines. There are two handgun groups.

I bring this up because I very much have an interest in sporting/hunting rifles but quickly lose interest in the category when I find it full of semi-auto military weapons. I'm sure others feel the opposite. There will be topics that blur the lines, but that is typical of any topic, regardless of category.

If you enjoyed reading about "Splitting the rifle thread" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
dakotasin
September 3, 2010, 02:09 PM
this topic comes up from time to time...

i kind of look at a board's primary user interests to determine if a topic belongs on a certain board. imo sporting/hunting rifles topics do better on 24 hour campfire or baitshop boyz.

ArtP
September 3, 2010, 02:11 PM
That's like saying revolvers don't belong on THR because only old farts enjoy them. Not true.

Arkansas Paul
September 3, 2010, 04:47 PM
I'm with you Art. I'm more into hunting rifles as well and would like to see two catagories. But I'm okay if it doesn't happen. This forum is much better than the others I have visited, so a minor thing like that isn't a big deal to me.

hso
September 3, 2010, 04:53 PM
We've had this discussion here before and the problem is splitting the rifles section falls into the hands of the antis. It's a fundamentally bad idea to differentiate between a semiautomatic rifle that looks one way from a semiautomatic rifle that looks a bit different. What do we do when folks that hunt with their SKS or AR post? What do we do when your hunting rifle and your "sniper" rifle and your "target" rifle are all the same?

These points are brought up every time this idea is proposed and the consensus is that the convenience is outweighed by the bad of playing into the myth of the "bad" rifle and the overly complicated question of what's a "hunting" rifle.

Arkansas Paul
September 3, 2010, 04:55 PM
Makes sense to me.

KDS
September 3, 2010, 05:17 PM
I wasn't sure which way to vote until I read hso's post. I think we should leave it as is.

45Fan
September 3, 2010, 05:40 PM
I am hoping and praying for the day that it is leagal to hunt deer in Indiana with my SKS!

hso makes a very good point. How many would consider the '03 springfield a tactical rifle? I am sure that many a returning GI has hunted deer with their trusty M1 Garand. Tactical and hunting uses can blur very easily. I just keep an open mind, and dont read a thread if it doesnt interest me.

Rail Driver
September 3, 2010, 05:56 PM
How about this... Splitting the Rifle forum into a few sub-forums... Semi-auto, Bolt Action, Lever Action, Misc

It's not exactly "hunting vs military" but it does allow a little better organization and ease of finding what each person is looking for. It's also similar to how the pistols forums are divided from semi auto and revolvers.

TexasRifleman
September 3, 2010, 06:15 PM
No, because there is no difference between hunting and military style firearms. Plenty of people go into battle with Remington 700s and plenty of people hunt with AR-15s.

I'd expect a distinction maybe on the Brady Campaign website, but not here.

That subtle message that there isn't a difference between types of firearms goes along with THR's mission of being a Second Amendment advocate.

Rifles are rifles and as gun owners that should be our message.

dubbleA
September 3, 2010, 07:29 PM
How about this... Splitting the Rifle forum into a few sub-forums... Semi-auto, Bolt Action, Lever Action, Misc

It's not exactly "hunting vs military" but it does allow a little better organization and ease of finding what each person is looking for. It's also similar to how the pistols forums are divided from semi auto and revolvers.
Agreed

No, because there is no difference between hunting and military style firearms. Plenty of people go into battle with Remington 700s and plenty of people hunt with AR-15s.

I'd expect a distinction maybe on the Brady Campaign website, but not here.

That subtle message that there isn't a difference between types of firearms goes along with THR's mission of being a Second Amendment advocate.

Rifles are rifles and as gun owners that should be our message.
__________________


Well with all of the above being considered a firearms why are there sub catergories then? With this way of thinking there should just be one catergory. Firearms .....Why make the distinction between a revolver, a black powder rifle or a shotgun? With that said then....they are all the same just as a hunting rifle is the same a military rifle right?

Is a autoloading pistol the same as a revolver? Of course not, so they have seperate sections even though they are both considered "handguns".
Personally,I dont care if it's a Russian Mosin, SKS or 1903 A3 Springfield it's a military rifle to me if unaltered for sporting use and should be considered a military rifle and be in a seperate section under the rifle catergory.
Just sayin..................

ArtP
September 3, 2010, 08:02 PM
The points made about public perception certainly make sence. Thanks for the input.

dakotasin
September 3, 2010, 08:34 PM
That's like saying revolvers don't belong on THR because only old farts enjoy them.


no, its not. it is merely saying this board has less of a bias toward bolt guns than other forums, and if you are looking for maximum feedback regarding a bolt rifle, you should look at a forum that puts bolt guns front and center. thr has knowledgeable posters to be sure, and does look at many/all types of guns. but, a bolt gun forum will be more specialized. very much like posters on here that enjoy sig forum, or 1911 forum, etc. conversely, if you want more information on mil-surps, ar's, ak's, and the like, a bolt gun forum is probably not where you'll find the greatest depth of information.

that is in no way saying that thr isn't worthy or whatever. also, it is perfectly legal and socially acceptable behavior to be a member of more than one forum.

all that said, i find a flaw in hso's logic about splitting the rifle forum because the handgun forums are already split...

CHEVELLE427
September 3, 2010, 08:35 PM
alot of gun owners don't have any interest in some guns, and this is OK but remember.

please do not dismiss guns you have no interest in BECAUSE.

NRA did a poll a while back to the shotgun group on if there was a ban on AR type rifles would it bother you, most said NO IT WOULD NOT AFFECT THEM.

now if the AR bunch said the same thing about shot gunners it would affect them.

point is regardless if you like a type of gun or not we all need the support of each other to keep the grabbers away.

WITH this said i voted YES, just please don't forget we all like guns and will need each other to support what ever gun we choose to like better then the next persons gun :)

Quoheleth
September 3, 2010, 08:39 PM
Respectfully, I disagree that having categories plays into the antis.

As someone else mentioned, we already have a semiauto category for handguns - which "everyone" knows are as evil as EBRs.

I have never seen a single Brady or anti-2a group citing a THR post, thread, or thread title as supporting evidence. Could it happen? I suppose. But - I submit - that is already a possibility with the aforementioned handgun group.

I'm not demanding anything; just saying I agree that NOT having subcategories in the rifle forum because an anti group MIGHT spin that seems a bit paranoid. We allow conversations on durn near anything else inclding tactics, SD amm, shot placement, etc, but we're worried on how a forum might be seen? Mmmm.....seems a bit backwards.

Nevertheless, while I'm on board with the ultimate decision but I'll throw my vote in "yes - rifle sub-forii" category but with different categories (I like designation by actions).

Q

ArtP
September 3, 2010, 08:48 PM
no, its not. it is merely saying this board has less of a bias toward bolt guns than other forums, and if you are looking for maximum feedback regarding a bolt rifle, you should look at a forum that puts bolt guns front and center.

Why is there a reloading section then, or a shotgun section? Typically reloading is the domain of precision bolt guns and those saving money on pistol rounds. Don't believe me, run a poll and ask what people reload for.

You're classifying the clientele here as a certain type of gun enthusiast. The only thing any of us have in common are a fondness for guns.

Glad that you straightened that out because I personally do not care for sloppy plastic, semi-auto rifles, and I am not as important or not welcome. By the way, I have no problem with you enjoying whatever it is you like, even if it is an AK.

Cap'n Jack Burntbeard
September 3, 2010, 08:52 PM
I say we split them based on the mechanical principles of the rifle.

Autoloaders and Manual

ArtP
September 3, 2010, 08:55 PM
Chevelle: I am absolutley with you on this. I have always said, at least to myself, that I'll stand up for your rights too - even if I don't believe in them or practice them.

TexasRifleman
September 3, 2010, 09:11 PM
I'm not demanding anything; just saying I agree that NOT having subcategories in the rifle forum because an anti group MIGHT spin that seems a bit paranoid

You misunderstand. It's not the anti's quoting us that is a problem, no one cares much what they say anyway. The problem is we've spent years saying to the "man on the street" that rifles are rifles, that there is no difference so banning one type but not another is silly.

Why split them based on some arbitrary thing like "military" and "hunting" and undo all that public relations work? And does it really help anyone? If someone hunts with an AR-15 and they searched a "hunting rifles" subforum would they find what they are looking for? Or someone wanting a tactical Remington 700 might look in "military" and find nothing.

Just doesn't seem like it would make things easier on anyone, which should be the ultimate goal.

As for splitting by action type you might consider the fact that there are less than 1 million posts in "Rifle Country" while in all of the handgun related forums there are about 1.7 million posts.

If Rifle Country got as busy as the handgun areas it might make sense but that's a pretty big gap in popularity.

Sam1911
September 3, 2010, 09:15 PM
Personally, I find the split between the three handgun sub-forums to be cumbersome as folks just seem to have no idea when to use which -- or to search in which for their topic. But it is what it is and is probably about the best we can do.

IF we have abandoned this ("I very much have an interest in sporting/hunting rifles but quickly lose interest in the category when I find it full of semi-auto military weapons,") as a legitimate reason to split the forum (and I concur wholeheartedly), then what purpose does splitting the forum in some other way really serve?

Just because we can? I mean, really...why? Why can't you search for or scan for threads on lever guns along with the threads on falling-blocks? Or bolt-guns amongst the auto-loaders? What harm comes of having to wade through all the threads on Mausers to find a thread on Win. Model 70s?

If we aren't going to accept "military guns turn me off" or "hunting guns are boring" as enough reason to build a wall between them, what point is there in building yet other wall(s)?

bikerdoc
September 3, 2010, 09:53 PM
Dude get a life.

Now that is funny and shows you are asking a serious question but not taking yourself too serious.

My .02 = no need to split it up. I like them all.

Ridgerunner665
September 3, 2010, 09:55 PM
YES

I've thought that for a while now...not that what I think matters, LOL.


And about that PC terminology (see my signature line)...hunting rifles and home defense rifles.

gunnutery
September 4, 2010, 12:59 AM
While the split would make it easier for those of us that know what we're looking for, I think it would be more difficult on newcomers to THR and shooting sports (like the mods already said).

I think they also made a great point about public perceptions if we split them, which I hadn't even considered until I read hso's point.

Krusty
September 4, 2010, 06:43 AM
I think hso makes a good point. Let's just split it into two forums, lever guns and all that other stuff ! :evil:

Kleanbore
September 4, 2010, 12:22 PM
I say no, for the reasons articulated by hso, Texas Rifleman, and Sam1911.

rcmodel
September 4, 2010, 03:45 PM
NO, for the same reasons cited.

I don't even like the orphan "Holsters" forum in the handguns forum.

Somebody posts a holster question, you answer it, then it disappears into the Holsters sub-forum, never to be seen again to follow up.

rc

dubbleA
September 4, 2010, 04:53 PM
Why does the word "banning" come to play when wanting to make a subforum in the rifle section, I dont get it.

It's also beyond me that when a "military rifle" is mentioned, folks automatically assume AK, AR, SKS and such. A military rifle to me incompasses bolts, semi autos, single shots etc. not the action type.

If Rifle Country got as busy as the handgun areas it might make sense but that's a pretty big gap in popularity.


There might be a reason for this, the handgun section is a bit easier to navigate through. ;)

WNTFW
September 4, 2010, 09:15 PM
Should the rifle category be split into: hunting/sporting and military/defense.

NO.

If it were to be split I would split it along different categories. Lines blur any way. Is my 700 Tactical SPS a range queen, tactical, target or field rifle? Does what bullet to use on hogs belong in rifle, hunting, reloading or general discussion? General discussion is often mistaken for off topic. Is a scope question a rifle question or optics topic?

Posters formulating their post and a title which makes sense go a long way towards getting results.

mickeygrimreaperblueeyes
September 5, 2010, 08:43 PM
FUnny, when I saw this, I thought you meant splitting the actual threads at the exit end of a rifle. I would do this. It makes the ballistics hard to read and a few of the guns that I own have split line ups on the threading too. Seems to have a very hard ballistic pattern to define. I already voted that you shouldn't split it, but am giving my two dead lincolns.

Nushif
September 6, 2010, 07:35 AM
The idea of splitting them by actions makes a bit of sense to me, to be honest. Because handguns is split by well ... mechanical action.

But any split as to usage would be yeah ... marking some rifles as e-bil and nasty, where hers are more acceptable.

So +1 on those.

TexasRifleman
September 6, 2010, 09:26 AM
Why does the word "banning" come to play when wanting to make a subforum in the rifle section, I dont get it.

No, you don't seem to get it. You are aware that there have been bans of certain types of rifles based on the usage descriptions suggested in this thread right? The very argument we use to try to avoid that is that rifles have neither a "hunting" or "sporting" or "military" use, that semi and bolt action doesn't matter either, that the use of the rifle is determined by the person holding it not the physical design of the rifle. Why in the world would we now go the other way?

There have not been any nationwide bans on certain types of semi automatic handguns so the threat is less, though it still exists. For politicians and anti's the rifles seem to be a favorite target so rifle shooters need to present a unified front.

scythefwd
September 6, 2010, 11:34 AM
HSO - then would it make sense to split along the lines of semi auto / bolt? That would cater to the different tastes and be not all that different than separating the handgun section by action type which was obviously accepted.

gunnutery - Most people have a general idea what type of action they want though, even if they don't know what they are looking for. Requests for hunting rifles end up in Hunting as often as rifle and the user is generally recommended to ask in the other relevant forum just to broaden the input (not always though).

lions
September 7, 2010, 06:17 PM
Split the rifle forum?

Sure, as long as I'm never a mod and I won't have to move the ridiculous number of threads that would inevitably be posted in the wrong sub-forum.:)

I don't have a problem the way it is. I actually prefer it while searching for an old thread so I don't have to search 3 different sub-forums. I vote leave it as is.

Ike R
September 8, 2010, 12:19 AM
No , I hunt with my AR 15's which as we all know the media and the sheeple call Assault Rifles instead of Aramlite Rifle Model 15.

We DO have a defensive section, its called stratagies and tactics, we have a sporting section, its called Competition! We DO have a hunting forum, its called Hunting...

How much plainer can we get, my 7 year old nephew trolls here and he knows where to look when he wants to find something.

I edited so I could add this ..

Maybe the reason that THR has never been quoted by anti-2er's and the like is that our Moderators and members do a great job taking care of not only the language we use amongst each other on this venue, but also with the organization of the respective forums, its worked so far, why tempt fate and walk out the door without a reload in your back pocket?

Gryffydd
September 8, 2010, 12:32 AM
If there were no search function, no New Posts section, and no need to post a thread that might pertain to multiple action types, maybe. Since we have all those things, absolutely not. No gain and a lot of inconvenience.

JohnBT
September 8, 2010, 02:46 PM
I vote for 2 rifle forums - one for rifles and one for those 10/22 thingys. :p

Seriously, I could live with one handgun forum.

Col. Plink
September 8, 2010, 04:06 PM
No, but I would like to see the Buy/Sell Rifles/Shotguns split up by gun type though...

If you enjoyed reading about "Splitting the rifle thread" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!