Help finding a 22 for wife


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bugoy1
September 4, 2010, 07:15 PM
My wife loves to go to the range for some plinking. But she also wants to (despite the small caliber) use it as her cc gun. That means not only does it need to be a nice comfy shooter, but needs to be a bit smaller so that she can hide it in a small holster or clutch purse.

She likes the look of the Phoenix HP 22, but it isn't as reliable at the range. I'm wondering about the Firestorm 22 (she likes nickle finishes) in duotone, maybe the Sig Mosquito or Walther.
Is there something else out there that fits this size and style better? I can't seem to find many 22 handguns that are not target guns with long barrels. I would really like to surprise her with something that has it all.

Any suggestions in a 22 are welcome. (must be a 22 - she won't even look at a .380 or .32) Pictures are always nice too :)

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TexasGunbie
September 4, 2010, 07:18 PM
If she can carry the Mosquito, then she can carry the buckmark??

bugoy1
September 4, 2010, 07:21 PM
I don't know how big the mosquito is. I just know that she wants something the size of the Phoenix, but more reliable. Is that more clear?

rtpzwms
September 4, 2010, 07:25 PM
How about this one (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=58954&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=43804&isFirearm=Y)? Long barrel for the range, short barrel to carry.

thunder173
September 4, 2010, 07:37 PM
Have the Firestorm FS .22LR. A good shooter and a great value for the price. Bought it for the wife to use as her plinker matched to her Firestorm .380 for carry. We both shoot it a lot, and it works well. Does not like low velocity ammo. I use CCI minimags and it's never missed a beat. I have no idea how many rounds through it. More than a few thousand anyways. Magazines are expensive,..but that's the only issue I have with the gun. I'd buy it again.

bugoy1
September 4, 2010, 08:48 PM
That's good to know. I wasn't sure how reliable it was.

Finding something in the right size and style is much tougher than I thought.

Jed Carter
September 4, 2010, 09:35 PM
Beretta Model 21 Bobcat, or the Beretta 87 Cheetah are both good .22lr pistols.

bugoy1
September 4, 2010, 10:03 PM
That Beretta Bobcat looks like a good size and it comes in stainless too. How reliable is it?

wep45
September 4, 2010, 11:26 PM
reliable........quality......accurate....light weight

S&W models....317....34....43....63

Shadow 7D
September 4, 2010, 11:29 PM
You take her to the range, let her choose the one she likes and shoot it, then see if she wants to try a different one, repeat until rounds are expended or one follows you home....

Manco
September 4, 2010, 11:34 PM
This may not be an appropriate post for the Autoloader Forum, but I'd recommend that your wife seriously consider a revolver in this caliber if it is to be used for defensive purposes. I have nothing against autoloaders in general, and in fact my current defensive handgun is an autoloader, but I wouldn't trust one regarding reliability in this specific caliber, based on my own experiences (there are also technical reasons for this). There are some nice small-frame, 8-shot revolvers available in this caliber that I could recommend if your wife finds the idea agreeable.

Whatever you end up going with, ammo selection is absolutely critical for defense in this caliber. Try to get a gun with a 3" barrel or longer if your wife can manage carrying it. The CCI Velocitor would probably be the most effective load in any .22 LR handgun, although the CCI Mini-Mag (or preferably the similar CCI SGB if you can find it) would probably be acceptable with a 6" barrel or longer. Do not use cheap bulk ammo for defensive purposes.

reliable........quality......accurate....light weight

S&W models....317....34....43....63

Exactly! :)

JellyJar
September 5, 2010, 12:01 AM
Perhaps you could find a good used Beretta JetFire in .22l. However, like the others have said before me a revolver in .22 is better because of reliability issues with .22 rimfire ammunition.

The new S&W 317 is good despite that stupid lock on it. Perhaps you could find an older one without the lock, I hope?

nevermas
September 5, 2010, 04:10 AM
I really like the walther P22, and with the pinkie extension, fits my hand really well. However, to the best of my knowledge, it does not come in nickel finish.

vaupet
September 5, 2010, 05:18 AM
Maybe the ISSC m22 ( http://www.issc-handels-gmbh.at/m22.html )
This is a Glock LOOKALILKE, wich can be impressive in SD situations

PAPACHUCK
September 5, 2010, 06:27 AM
If you already have the Phoenix, great. Let her shoot that at the range for fun and practice, but get her a Kel Tec P32 for CCW. It is the size of the Phoenix and a heck of a lot lighter, and is reliable as any gun on the market. The caliber increase gives her more power, but not much more recoil. The P32 is very soft on recoil so she may want to shoot more often.

The major problem with 22's for CCW is that rimfire ignition can be spotty with many brands, and power levels vary creating issues with cycling speed. That is fine at the range, or even in a hunting situation, but good quality centerfire calibers are a must for defensive roles. Skip the 25ACP, and start with .32ACP, or .32 H&R in a revolver and go up from there until you find the greatest caliber she shoots well, and buy her a gun in that caliber.

I own a Phoenix HP22A and it's a good shooter with very few jams, but I would not consider it for CCW. If your wife is recoil sensitive, beware of the micro 380's and Airweight 38's.

Jed Carter
September 5, 2010, 08:24 AM
Beretta 21 is as reliable as a magazine fed pistol can be in .22lr. It is as accurate as a pistol of its size can be, my wife has the old 950 jetfire in .25 auto it is deadly out to 15 yards, beyond that not so good. Price wise Beretta starts around $300 the Phoenix around $125, you do get what you pay for. What would you bet your life on, in .22lr it would have to be a revolver, but the Beretta 21 would do for her I think.

gofastman
September 5, 2010, 12:18 PM
Kel Tec PMR-30 (http://kel-tec-cnc.com/images/PMR30-handout-v3-31.pdf) (ok, its a .22 Mag)
it holds 30+1 rounds, its fugly, cheap, and awsome.

Or you could always get one of these stupid NAA revolvers:
http://www.naaminis.com/pix/hg1.jpg
Its a hell of a lot better than no gun.

CZguy
September 5, 2010, 01:04 PM
You take her to the range, let her choose the one she likes and shoot it, then see if she wants to try a different one, repeat until rounds are expended or one follows you home....

This is good advice. A wise man would follow it. ;)

hirundo82
September 5, 2010, 07:21 PM
The only .22's I would use for defense would be revolvers with the hottest ammo available (probably Velocitors). The S&W 317 is available as the usual 1 7/8" barrel snubby (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/26989), which would be a good pocket gun, or as a 3" barreled model (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/26286) which would be easier to shoot well.

I wouldn't worry about the lock too much. Most of the reports of them locking up while firing are when using hot ammo (eg .38+p or .357mag), which obviously isn't a worry in .22lr.

Russ Jackson
September 5, 2010, 07:27 PM
What about a Walther P22 or SP22. I saw an SP22 for $219 the other day...Russ

hirundo82
September 5, 2010, 08:11 PM
A Buckmark Micro (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/17695) could also be a good option if it must be an auto. My full-size Buckmark has been extremely reliable (as a range gun) with good ammo.

DeepSouth
September 5, 2010, 08:22 PM
I want recommend any rim-fire gun as a CCW, but if I were to it would be the Kel Tec PMR-30. My only other advice is to stay as far away from the P22 as you can get. If some offers you one for free, slap them in face and run away screaming.

lesgeaux
September 5, 2010, 11:01 PM
+1 for the Firestorm 22. I have had one for 3 years and it is very reliable with stingers and HV ammo, cheap ammo is spotty, but at the range I put up with it to save cost. Good ammo has been totally reliable in it.

Guillermo
September 5, 2010, 11:08 PM
I have a couple of Buckmarks at my house

The hex screws that hold the sights require thread blocker

They WILL shoot loose otherwise

kludge
September 5, 2010, 11:18 PM
22 + SD = Revolver

S&W Airweight

killchain
September 6, 2010, 04:06 AM
A reliable .22LR is going to be a revolver.

I'd start looking at wheelguns. :)

71Commander
September 6, 2010, 09:13 AM
S&W M317 hands down.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=189113330

dogsoldier0513
September 6, 2010, 10:00 AM
My wife's CCW weapon is an SA Micro Compact Operator 1911 in .45ACP. However, her 'work in the yard' gun is an S&W M317 'Airweight' 8-shot .22LR. She keeps the first 3 chambers loaded with 'rat shot' and the remaining 5 chambers loaded with CCI 'Stingers'.

Be advised: Using a .22LR for defense will almost demand that any defensive shots be placed in the attacker's facial area.

Shadow 7D
September 6, 2010, 01:56 PM
actually shooting for the hip fold (lots of blood, disabling) for the liver (soft and deadly) and upwards from the belly, avoiding the hard stuff, are better shots than the face, which is bony and prone to stop or defect a shot.

XFIVER
September 8, 2010, 12:07 AM
Nicest quality 22 plinker I have is a Beretta 87. Nice size and works flawlessly. I still wouldn't trust my life to it though and certainly not my wife's. But if you can carry an 87, you can carry the 84 .380 that is the exact same size and a lot better choice. The 21A is cute but only about 99% reliable and if you have a misfire, there is no way to get the round out without tools (no extractor).

Forget the Mosquito. They are JUNK. And I am a SIG guy all the way.

Nushif
September 8, 2010, 12:13 AM
This is good advice. A wise man would follow it.

That is truth.

Onward Allusion
September 8, 2010, 12:52 AM
I know you said that your wife would not look at any other calibers except for a 22, however, is she aware that .22LR from a short barrel packs very little energy? Generally speaking, unless it's a shot to the vitals (head, heart, throat, artery) it will not do much IMMEDIATE good. In the world of CCW, a 22LR is a shoot and run like hell in the other direction cartridge.

In any event, check out the Berettas or even the Taurus 22LRs. I can personally vouch for the Berettas as I had a couple of them in the past. They're as dependable as you can get with a rimfire cartridge.

http://www.berettausa.com/products/model-21-bobcat/
http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=SF1&toggle=tp

As an aside, you may want to consider a .25ACP in the above models. Being a centerfire they are more reliable and from a 2.5" barrel they pack about the same punch as a 22LR - not that I recommend a .25 as a EDC either.

BTW, stay away from the Phoenix HP - junk.




bugoy1 (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=109036)
Help finding a 22 for wife
My wife loves to go to the range for some plinking. But she also wants to (despite the small caliber) use it as her cc gun. That means not only does it need to be a nice comfy shooter, but needs to be a bit smaller so that she can hide it in a small holster or clutch purse.

She likes the look of the Phoenix HP 22, but it isn't as reliable at the range. I'm wondering about the Firestorm 22 (she likes nickle finishes) in duotone, maybe the Sig Mosquito or Walther.
Is there something else out there that fits this size and style better? I can't seem to find many 22 handguns that are not target guns with long barrels. I would really like to surprise her with something that has it all.

Any suggestions in a 22 are welcome. (must be a 22 - she won't even look at a .380 or .32) Pictures are always nice too :)

Nushif
September 8, 2010, 01:25 AM
My wife actually says to show your wife a Baby Browning in .25.

I know it's not a big step up, but she says she "carries it probably a bit too much, because it's so adorable." It's mechanically as reliable as any pistol and quite manageable for its size.

Also, +1 on the Beretta 84F ... I *know* it's not a .22 but it shoots really damn soft. And accurate, too.

GLOOB
September 8, 2010, 02:04 AM
+1 on a revolver. Semi-auto 22's can be extremely reliable, but the weak cartridge/springs means that the slide will stop if it's gripped wrong. And pocket .22's all have external slides.

dogsoldier0513
September 8, 2010, 11:32 AM
actually shooting for the hip fold (lots of blood, disabling) for the liver (soft and deadly) and upwards from the belly, avoiding the hard stuff, are better shots than the face, which is bony and prone to stop or defect a shot.

Not true....with a .22 or .25. With large caliber guns, shots to the area you mention will likely immediately STOP an attack (breaking/shattering the pelvic girdle). However, while hits in these areas with a .22 MIGHT cause an attacker to die....later...they won't IMMEDIATELT stop him.

Shots to the face ARE effective with smaller rounds IF.... You have to aim for the oribital sockets which will help funnel the tiny .22, .25, etc bullets into the cranial vault.

IF using a SMALL caliber weapon for defense you have to reconcile that you have to AIM SMALL. In the video 'Deadly Effects' there is mention of an autopsy done on a guy that died after being shot 2X by his girlfiend. She was using a Beretta 950 'Minx' in .22Short. The cornoner couldn't find the bullets, so he did a full-body x-ray. He found BOTH .22 bullets in one of the deceased's calves. The guy had lived LONG ENOUGH after being SHOT IN THE HEART 2X for the bullets to be pumped into his calf.

Shawn Dodson
September 8, 2010, 11:45 AM
If .22 LR is the cartridge, then I suggest a revolver, such as the S&W 317 AirLite, instead of an auto pistol.

Rimfire primers are less reliable than centerfire primers. With a revolver if the cartridge doesn't fire the problem is quickly solved by simply pressing the trigger again. Whereas an auto pistol requires more training to clear misfires and stoppages. (You wife is going to have to do a little soul searching to determine the amount of time and effort she wants to invest to develop and maintain her proficiency with an auto pistol.)

Some .22 LR pistols, such as the Beretta Bobcat, don't have extractors. Thus one cannot merely rack the slide to clear a misfire. With my Beretta Bobcat the firing pin swages the rim of a misfired cartridge firmly to the barrel breech, requiring a tool to clear it.

Finally, the .22 LR cartridge is long and skinny and is not as reliable in feeding into the chamber of an auto pistol as other cartridges. I suggest if she desires a .25 ACP sized mousegun that she consider .25 ACP instead, because it was intentionally designed to be fired from little handguns. (When .22 LR is fired from a .25 ACP sized pistol its terminal performance is virtually identical to .25 ACP. See - Terminal Performance of MPB Quik-Shok, CCI Stinger and Remington Viper .22 Long Rifle Ammunition when fired from a Beretta Model 21A Handgun into Standard Ordnance Gelatin at http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs27.htm)

Just some things to think about.

Good luck!

Strahley
September 8, 2010, 01:24 PM
You should not be picking out what she will use. She needs to get a lot of trigger time on various guns to see what works best FOR HER

That said, try to step her up to at least a .380. .22LR has no place in self defense, unless it's against a blind rabbit. Some drugged up 300 pound gangbanger? Good luck with a .22LR out of a handgun at that point

Onward Allusion
September 8, 2010, 01:26 PM
bugoy1 (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=109036) - Not sure if you ever experienced first hand pumping .22LR into a person or animal, but it takes quite a few shots to stop them or even to change their mind if they are intending on harming you. Like some of the others have said, even shots to the heart (or head) won't stop the assailant immediately! I would never give my wife a 22LR as a EDC weapon. At a bare minimum...a P-32 or P3AT.

CZguy
September 8, 2010, 03:22 PM
If .22 LR is the cartridge, then I suggest a revolver, such as the S&W 317 AirLite, instead of an auto pistol.

Rimfire primers are less reliable than centerfire primers. With a revolver if the cartridge doesn't fire the problem is quickly solved by simply pressing the trigger again. Whereas an auto pistol requires more training to clear misfires and stoppages. (You wife is going to have to do a little soul searching to determine the amount of time and effort she wants to invest to develop and maintain her proficiency with an auto pistol.)

I like the AirLite, (in .38) but in all fairness it will take quite a bit of range time to master the double action trigger pull.

I would never give my wife a 22LR as a EDC weapon. At a bare minimum...a P-32 or P3AT.

I have to agree with that. ;)

Win_SX-1
September 8, 2010, 09:10 PM
My wife loves her Walther P22. With the adjustable back strap, we can tailor it to fit her small hands. I know a lot of people do not like it or say it is a jam-o-matic - this is true if you use cheap ammo. Once we started using better ammo, it's never failed to go "bang" when you pull the trigger.

Walthersp22
November 20, 2010, 10:46 PM
One of the best handguns to hit the market lately is the Walther P22. First and foremost this pistol fits the hand very well, no matter how big or small your hands are. Some might say the barrel is to short at 3.4 inches, I say nonsense. If you can learn to shoot well with a short barrel pistol, you are better off. Bought my wife a P22, my self-P22 target. Both function very well with any type of ammunition.

walker944
November 20, 2010, 11:05 PM
I'm quite impressed with the quality and reliability of the Firestorm (Bersa) .22. I've got one and my wife has one. On the otherhand, I'm dismally frustrated with the hit & miss (mostly piss-poor) quality and reliability of the Taurus PT-22. I've had a few of those...thinking I had a lemon...or two. I just really wanted the Taurus to be reliable, but all my wishing and even trips to the Taurus facility in Miami, FL didn't really change reality. So, as disappointed as I am with Taurus, the Firestorm .22s are very impressive. Great little pocket plinkers.

benderx4
November 21, 2010, 06:40 PM
They aren't the easiest to find, and they certainly aren't cheap, but I would recommend the Beretta Cheetah 87. Probably the highest quality, most reliable .22 on the market. More enjoyable to shoot, and just as accurate as my Ruger Mk III Hunter. Good luck!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=202324427

MrWesson
November 21, 2010, 06:46 PM
If you are trying to make her a good shooter and an accurate shooter you should buy an accurate gun and the buckmark is hard to beat.

If you want to simulate a larger caliber weapon then maybe a combat style .22 would be in order. I cant believe i'm suggesting this but the Sig Mosquito best simulates a regular sized combat pistol. Make sure you run CCI Minimags or a high velocity .22 round.

For CCW I believe the .22 round should only be a stepping stone and not the ends for defense. I don't think she should carry a .22.

Rock
November 21, 2010, 06:49 PM
Strahley

That said, try to step her up to at least a .380. .22LR has no place in self defense, unless it's against a blind rabbit. Some drugged up 300 pound gangbanger? Good luck with a .22LR out of a handgun at that point

Better teach her how to fight well, as the dirtbag is going to take the gun away from her after the pea size .22 bullets make him mad.

Carl Levitian
November 21, 2010, 11:17 PM
Many devout readers of the gun rags parrot off remarkably dumb statements that a .22 will just make somebody mad. Try reading just the first chapter in Frank Serpico's book, where he describes in vivid detail what it was like to be shot in the face with a .22. Just one single round.

As he was laying there on the dirty floor of a cheap apartment building, he was anything but mad. Better still, ask Jim Brady how his tennis game is.

MrWesson
November 22, 2010, 12:49 AM
One of the best handguns to hit the market lately is the Walther P22. First and foremost this pistol fits the hand very well, no matter how big or small your hands are. Some might say the barrel is to short at 3.4 inches, I say nonsense. If you can learn to shoot well with a short barrel pistol, you are better off. Bought my wife a P22, my self-P22 target. Both function very well with any type of ammunition.

I hate to be that guy but the P22 no where near one of the best guns to hit the market. The slide cracked twice on mine in 4k rounds and after the 2nd repair I got rid of it.

They are made of pot metal, have horrible triggers, overpriced and in general unreliable as a defensive pistol. The gun is small so it doesn't really resemble a larger caliber pistol of the same brand as the mosquito does(another questionable .22).

I would get back on topic but everything that could be said has been said.
.22 doesn't even have marginal ballistics for CCW and rimfire is unreliable in nature

Inform her about the .22's capability and buy her a .22 to intro her into shooting. When she is ready, move up to a larger caliber and do not force anything on her. Try your hardest to talk her out of carrying a .22.

Rock
November 22, 2010, 07:20 AM
Carl Levitian

Many devout readers of the gun rags parrot off remarkably dumb statements that a .22 will just make somebody mad. Try reading just the first chapter in Frank Serpico's book, where he describes in vivid detail what it was like to be shot in the face with a .22. Just one single round.

As he was laying there on the dirty floor of a cheap apartment building, he was anything but mad. Better still, ask Jim Brady how his tennis game is.

Yea, that's assuming the shooter is accurate and can actually hit such a relatively small target when the adrenaline and fear hits them. Good luck with that if the person is a casual shooter and has had no training or experience.

And no. I'm not a devout reader of gun rags. Just someone with a bit of experience and common sense.

D Rock
November 22, 2010, 01:14 PM
I don't discount any bullet coming at me! There is allot to be said for a 22lr revolver's reliability. My wife used a Beretta in 22lr as well as a Walther P22 and I agree that as long as you use quality ammo they are as reliable as anything else.

What happened with her and with others I've seen is that once she got used to shooting she went to a 9mm and currently uses it in competition. The step up as you get used to things can be expensive, but how many of us said when we started shooting "OK, this is the only firearm I will ever buy"?

Dave

Cemo
November 22, 2010, 04:48 PM
.22 has poor stopping power period and reliable small .22 autos are hard to find. At least move up to a .22 Mag. Revolver. S&W makes the Mod 551PD priced at about $599 and Taurus offers the Mod 941 at about $350. Both S&W and Taurus offer small revolvers in the .327 Mag. These .327 Mag. revolvers will also fire the lighter recoiling .32 Mag. and the even lighter recoiling .32 Long.

Although bigger and heavier than the Phoenix, the Walther PP, PPK, PPK/s in a .32 ACP would offer better stopping power but still have light recoil. They can be found used for $350-$500.

shootingthebreeze
November 22, 2010, 05:01 PM
A 22 is a fun caliber at the range but I have serious doubts relating to its efficiency as a CCW weapon.
At a minumum, a 38, perhaps a 9mm at the maximum range. Hornady manufactures fine 38 and 9mm bullets. A 38 is manageable, so is a 9mm for a woman.
A 22 is just not enough gun for self defense.

Naybor
November 22, 2010, 05:20 PM
My wife bought a Ruger .357 2 1/4 barrel for her own weapon and eventual CCW.

I would liked to have also found her a Ruger SP101 .22 w/4" barrel but they are few and far between. She settled on a stainless Ruger Mark III .22 for practice and plinking, and it is dandy at the range! But it's a little big for CC. It may possibly work in a fanny pack or large purse.

If you do find a SP101 in .22 that has a 3 1/16 or 4" barrel, have her try it out.

Note: A .22 is very low end for CC but is definitely better than nothing.

PR-NJ
November 22, 2010, 09:45 PM
How about a Beretta Neos? Relatively cheap and nice ergonomics. Kind of a Star Wars look to it. My wife has one and really likes it.

Not really a CCW, though. But then I wouldn't recommend a .22 for self-defense.

PR-NJ
November 22, 2010, 09:52 PM
A really intriguing concealed carry gun is the new Charter Arms Patriot in .327 magnum. (Note that I haven't fired one.)

My wife also has a Ruger GP100 in .327 magnum, and the recoil is not much greater than the recoil of a .22. Then again, we're talking about a .32 cal size bullet firing from a frame made for a .357 magnum.

ToBNamedl8r
November 23, 2010, 12:00 AM
I bought A Beretta Bobcat .22 for my wife and a Walther P22 for me. Didn't end up that way though. I sure miss shooting my P22. Anyone need an almost unused Bobcat?

OldCavSoldier
November 23, 2010, 08:07 PM
If she *must* have a .22LR to bet her life on, get the S&W 317. If she can handle a little more recoil, let her try an S&W 642/442 with .38SPL Wadcutters. If she can handle a little more weight, let her try an S&W 640 with .38SPL Wadcutters. I would concentrate on revolvers unless she has years and years of carrying and using semi-autos. Hell, I have decades of use of M1911A1s and I still opt for a snubbie wheel gun 95% of the time. Whatever, though, she must try the thing out and practice with it A LOT!!!

hsiturbines
December 13, 2010, 12:26 PM
The biggest issue with the 22LR or 22 magnum revolvers is the heavy double action trigger pull required to ignite a rim fire cartrige. You can clean up the action and lighten the factory trigger a small amount without reliability issues but most women will still find the trigger pull excessively heavy and the gun hard to shoot.

Col. Plink
December 13, 2010, 01:42 PM
What Shadow said...

Nushif
December 13, 2010, 01:43 PM
Let her pick it? 8)

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