Kel-Tec PMR-30... Range Report


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mesinge2
September 10, 2010, 08:42 PM
I know this is a review from a different forum, but with all the interest about the PMR-30 I thought people might want to read this. If it was wrong to post this here I apologize and ask the mods to delete the thread. I just thought this would be an important read for those that want to buy the new kel-tec.


http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/handgun-discussion/37407-kel-tec-pmr-30-range-report.html

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MICHAEL T
September 10, 2010, 09:57 PM
That's why I wait a year or 2 before buying the next must have in some peoples mind pistol.

FourteenMiles
September 10, 2010, 10:00 PM
What does FTFD mean?

PT1911
September 10, 2010, 10:13 PM
i am assuming he meant FTF, Failure to Feed... though I may be wrong.

P30shtr is right about the confusion.. interesting way to remedy that I suppose..

P30shtr
September 10, 2010, 10:14 PM
"What does FTFD mean?"- 14miles

Failure to feed is my guess, I get it, people put FTF and you dont know if it was failure to feed or failure to fire so... he threw the D on the end for clarification. Just my guess.

PT1911 beat me to it

P30shtr
September 10, 2010, 10:21 PM
The PMR-30, kinda like the car/boat. Sounds like a great idea and a lot of fun but...
At first it sounds like mag issues but then the AD and the double fires come into play. Jesus Christ man
I wouldnt touch one of those with a ten foot pole.

mesinge2
September 10, 2010, 10:23 PM
Its upsetting because I was really looking forward to this as a range gun.

I mean jams and failures to feed can be either ammo or magazine related but the ADs, the double fires, and the eventually disabled gun are more serious issues.

PT1911
September 10, 2010, 10:26 PM
Personally, I am still interested in getting one. I am in no rush to get one, but it sure as hell beats buying the FN 5.7 (referring to price!)

When they are more readily available, I will pick one up without hesitation, there are lemons in every batch and that especially applies to a new design!... Once they get the kinks out of the design, I will buy one and enjoy it. If i happen to get one that has some issue, guess what, kel tec has a lifetime warranty and a damn good CS department!

Just my opinion and intention... I suppose we will see.

bigfatdave
September 10, 2010, 10:40 PM
but the ADs, the double fires, and the eventually disabled gun are more serious issues.Sounds like a gun-specific issue, possibly in the sear/hammer engagement area.
I wouldn't write off the model yet, KT has been quite honest about having trouble scaling up from prototype to mass production and they know (and are offering free) that there are some tweaks to be made.

KT got the pmr30 advertising machine all spun up before they were ready to make full production, and are now paying the price. They are forced to choose between lousy QA or choking production off ... and seem to be striking a bad balance.

The reviewer did only bring one type of ammo to the range, and isn't seeming to be willing to poke about in the internals ... I'm not calling BS ... but I would bet that a lot of THR members would have pictures of the internals posted with a theory as to the source of the various malfunctions by now, I'll have to check back with the linked thread to see where it goes.

I'm still cautiously optimistic about the pmr30, it is on my "want" list's back burner for now, it would move to the "need" list if it was available with a .22lr conversion and/or a carbine/"sub-rifle" variant either in the Buckmark built-up pistol style or the sub2000 bare-bones rifle style.

P30shtr
September 11, 2010, 01:17 AM
"Sounds like a gun-specific issue, possibly in the sear/hammer engagement area.
I wouldn't write off the model yet, KT has been quite honest about having trouble scaling up from prototype to mass production and they know (and are offering free) that there are some tweaks to be made.

KT got the pmr30 advertising machine all spun up before they were ready to make full production, and are now paying the price. They are forced to choose between lousy QA or choking production off ... and seem to be striking a bad balance.

The reviewer did only bring one type of ammo to the range, and isn't seeming to be willing to poke about in the internals ...

I'm still cautiously optimistic about the pmr30, it is on my "want" list's back burner for now, ."-Quote--BFD



What advertising ? I hadnt heard a thing about this gun before hearing about it on the forums. Thats all the hype I heard. Although I do admit I was intrigued. But not anymore. I know, I know, theres always lemons. LCP, PPK, to name a couple. But AD's, double-fires, that deleted -<Sam> aint cool. And ammo, how could you blame any of that on ammo. Definitely internal/mag issues for sure. And poking around internals, most companys will void warranty's if you poke around/ take deleted -<Sam> appart so I cant blame him there. If anything I would wait a while till they get this pistol sorted out before purchasing, thats for sure. And .22lr wouldnt be too shaby either.

Shadow 7D
September 11, 2010, 03:29 AM
interesting I believe there was a Grendel (sp) precursor, I saw one, a plastic double stack, and was warned away from it because the double stack wasn't very reliable because it's .22.

JohnBiltz
September 11, 2010, 07:00 AM
My Grendel was in .380 and it was reliable. I wish I still had it.

GBExpat
September 11, 2010, 08:38 AM
FWIW, the un-reloadable ammo for this pistol is too expensive for me to ever consider buying one.

merlinfire
September 12, 2010, 12:05 AM
Yeah, the firing out of battery or double fire or whatever...that's always been at the back of my mind for rimfire automatics. I mean, if there is a failure to feed, there's a chance it might go off since the bolt may be putting enough pressure on the primer to make it go boom

harmon rabb
September 12, 2010, 12:33 AM
Thankfully for him, it's a kel-tec. They'll pay shipping both ways, and work on it, as much as it takes. Even if they have to give him 3 new guns until one of them finally works. Lol.

gym
September 13, 2010, 06:58 PM
I was warned about them from a gun store owner who is very down to earth, he told me a few months ago that they had Mag problems and had gone to a ten rounder, but still had problems in other areas, he also wanted one.

bigfatdave
September 13, 2010, 07:24 PM
I've heard nothing about a 10x magazine, any confirmation on that rumor?

Ah, screw it, I'll just ask KT on their facebook page, and get a real answer.

PT1911
September 13, 2010, 07:32 PM
I really doubt the 10 rounders.. that would completely defeat the purpose of the gun as a hi-capacity 22mag pistol... The only hi-capacity 22mag on the market.

bigfatdave
September 13, 2010, 07:43 PM
Hence the skepticisim ... I don't want to knock gym's shop-owner ... but I know that someone faced with the question of "where the hell is item X" will often pull an answer from [self-redacted].
Generally it will be composed of varying percentages of truth, rumor, and WAG.

RatDrall
September 13, 2010, 08:04 PM
I'd guess the 10 round magazines are for guns to be sold in AWB states?

All the complaints because one guys gun, in the first run of production, doesn't work well is rediculous. Wait until they come out to make judgements, don't base decisions on the first review of the first gun out there...

1KPerDay
September 14, 2010, 01:56 PM
I hope they work the bugs out... I like the idea of this pistol.

bigfatdave
September 15, 2010, 06:39 PM
Ah, screw it, I'll just ask KT on their facebook page, and get a real answer

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_dtApARtJQ9Q/TJE4eK6OxyI/AAAAAAAAA94/3y0uTYFkC8c/s600/KT%20facebook.jpg
Kel-Tec's representative on facebook has no idea what gym's gun-shop owner is talking about.

They have, however, been quite informative on the issues KT is having getting the PMR30 production ramped up to full capacity, so it isn't just a cubicle rat posting nothing but happy thoughts about KT, it seems to be someone knowledgeable about the manufacturing process and logistics down there in FL.

gym
September 15, 2010, 08:06 PM
Well I hope he is right as I was looking to buy one myself when I asked about them. There is a gun show coming up soon in my neck of the woods, will see the gun shop owner from Ft Pierce at that show and confront him about it.

gym
September 15, 2010, 08:24 PM
Well I just did a search and there a so many different excuses as to why this gun insn't out yet. That I would tend to be very leary of the first batch that hit's the shelves, if it does. There are all kinds of stories out there, you can google it yourself and see, but something is not right. I see things from re machining some parts to cancelling production. Of course I don't know the sources of these posts but something is up with them. There are guns around on gunbroker for twice the price they were supposed to be. Which is never a good thing. Guess we will have to wait and see. Sometimes the sales people just have to tell the store owners something, so they make it up.But I will see the guy I spoke to soon and ask him, at the FT pierce show

gym
September 15, 2010, 08:34 PM
http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com/2010/08/kel-tec-speaks-up-on-pmr-30.html

iblong
September 16, 2010, 09:07 AM
The 22maggie is one of my favorite catriges and I will own one of these,say about 2012.when the teathing problems have been worked out.

EdLaver
September 16, 2010, 11:37 AM
my thoughts exactly iblong...sometimes it pays to be patient.

Carl N. Brown
September 16, 2010, 11:44 AM
If the Internet was around in 1836 we could find postings by folks who bought Colt Paterson revolvers with high expectations, but after bad experiences with that folding trigger, went back to their single shot muzzleloader. typical of all new fangled contraptions.

ZeroRing
September 28, 2010, 04:41 AM
That thread hasn't updated in how long now?
5 days?!?!

I'm not buying that that account is representative of the PMR30's long-term quality. KT has been quite honest about scaling issues between prototype stage and full production, and we have a single account from someone who:
1- took only one kind of ammo to try out a new gun
2- took a non-recommended ammo
3- went to a 50-yard range to start out
4- apparently isn't willing to take a peek inside the gun to diagnose malfunctions

Not exactly an expert review, possibly a lemon gun ... not enough to condemn the design

FWIW the http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/handgun-discussion/37407-kel-tec-pmr-30-range-report.html thread has been updated...

But to address each of the points mentioned above:

1. & 2. Took only what I had on hand, and at the time I received my PMR-30 there were NO remommended (pro or con) ammo types.
3. Reasons for the range limitations were clear. It was unexpected and I wanted to at least put a few rounds thru it with the facilities available it the time.
4. Not a question of willingness to "take a peek" inside... it had more to do with insuring that Kel-Tec received the malfunctioning weapon in the condition it was at the point of failure.

And I agree completely with you that my "report" was not an expert review, it was merely the impressions of a customer lucky enough to have scored an early PMR-30. It was also not meant as a blanket statement about the design. As I mentioned, I LIKE and ENJOYED the PMR-30 and have every reason to expect my next trip to the range (with my now repaired PMR-30) to be flawless. :D

mesinge2
September 28, 2010, 04:28 PM
ZeroRing, Thanks for reporting back here. I look foward to your next report on the second range trip. Welcome to THR.

JoeLansing
September 30, 2010, 08:51 PM
Yeah, the thread has been updated. http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/handgun-discussion/37407-kel-tec-pmr-30-range-report.html I think he'll end up being happy with his weapon. The factory really does fix you up fast and he will still end up with a nice functioning low serial number weapon. Hi-Point is funny about their repairs. They tend to toss in free mags with most repairs, and will just give you a reserialized new weapon in many cases. Even if it's a rusty bent barrel thing you got at a pawn shop for $50 Shopping for "old-junk" Hi-Points is a new sport because they turn into new weapons..:) I'm getting a PMR-30 for sure, as soon as I can find one. Already stocking up on the ammo. I sent Kel-Tec an email back in June? begging them not to release it as a jam-O-matic using CCI ammo because that's what many/most would shoot. They replied that they were doing their homework on it. Turns out they needed to go to summer school.

- Joe

Jed Carter
October 1, 2010, 05:44 AM
"Completely non functional" does not sound like a teething problem to me. More like another manufacturer not doing proper quality control, or using the public as a Beta tester. Shame on Kel-tec, I am sure they will correct the problems. The gun industry's answer to a 7 day waiting period, sell a non functional firearm. Buy it today , get it today, shoot it in 12 weeks.

ZeroRing
October 16, 2010, 10:01 PM
Second outing was MUCH better than the first! Pistol shoots beautifully... especially with the correct ammo.

The Fiocchi I used initially is noticably weaker than the CCI and Federal I used on the first outing with my now repaired PMR-30.

Definitely a FUN little pistol to shoot!!

BTW... Kel-Tec tossed in a free mag with the repairs. :p

mesinge2
October 16, 2010, 10:04 PM
Glad to hear that Kel-tec stood by their product. I might be getting one of these after all.

outerlimit
October 17, 2010, 01:29 AM
KT got the pmr30 advertising machine all spun up before they were ready to make full production, and are now paying the price.

Well that's just an excuse IMO, they should damn well know better by now. Hopefully this will turn out to be a good gun, it does look like fun.

Uncle Ji
October 17, 2010, 07:04 PM
Here another more recent review: http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm
Here's an interesting video "90 rounds in 25 seconds" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2KZMI-qNvY

CaliCoastie
October 23, 2010, 09:42 AM
just got a pmr 30 last firday. had a chance to get to the range yesterday and other than me not loading my first mag right i didnt have any problems. about 200rnds down range, on the ammo that kel tec does not recommend the first mag i loaded i had 2 ftf and one fte. i unloaded the mag are reloaded it, then no problems.
Also its a blast to shoot.

Caliper_RWVA
October 23, 2010, 10:49 AM
This pistol looks like a really fun range toy / varmit exterminator. I think I'm still in the "ammo costs too much" camp for .22 WMR...

Would LOVE this pistol in .22LR though! I have always wondered why 99% of .22LR pistols have a 10 round mag when centerfire pistols are nearly doubling that.

~Boomslang~
October 23, 2010, 10:55 AM
This is the first I've seen of these pistols not functioning properly. I cant beleive after reading one bad review, people are already saying that they would never buy one! There is even a fully automatic version of this weapon that feeds spot on. Again don't get carried away with one bad report. There is even a poster below the range report that states "This was NOT my experience with the pistol" Lets see if this becomes a trend, then there may be some weight to it.

GunTech
October 23, 2010, 04:29 PM
How about a 17HMR PMR-30?

bigfatdave
October 23, 2010, 06:11 PM
GunTech, how about getting more PMR30s into the wild first, KT is working hard to get a .22LR conversion out after they get the PMR30 up to full production, I wouldn't be surprised to see .17HM2 or HMR next.

I'm still looking forward to buying one, but the only dealer in my area that stocks KelTec keeps trying to sell me a PLR22 or PLR16 when I ask about the PMR30. Then he points at a RFB and smiles ... I think he knows I'll bite on that one eventually.

GunTech
October 23, 2010, 07:15 PM
Agreed. I've been waiting for Keltec to work the bugs out of the PMR-30 prior to buying one. I had a Grendel and liked the concept.

I have to say that my own experience with Keltec has been stellar. While I had a couple of problems with my very early SU-16, they were very quick to sort things out and fix my problem. They even offered some help with my very unsanctioned 6.8SPC conversion of the SU-16.

wyocarp
October 24, 2010, 04:54 AM
I've been shooting the heck out of mine.

The magazines get progressively harder to load after about 20 rounds. 20 rounds load fairly easily. Also, don't play with the magazines after they are loaded. Leave them loaded. The cases become indented from pushing against them to load the next round and too much of this might affect how they work.

I was disappointed when I first got the gun out of the box, but it is really growing on me. 31 rounds. Let me repeat that, 31 rounds in the gun is something that has to be tried to know how much fun we are missing with other handguns.

It has been reliable except that the magazine has to be loaded with care otherwise the front of the bullet will be too low in the magazine and the round will not load. I have found that the perfect remedy for this is to use the polymer tipped bullets from Hornady or Remington. Remington has a larger bullet weight and the Hornady is faster.

It is light. Very light. It feels lighter than a loaded LCP.

Did I mention that this is a fun handgun.

I can hardly wait to be able to buy more magazines and I was thinking tonight as I shot a rabbit with it that I need to mount a small laser on the rail.

People keep talking about wishing it was in 22LR. I doubt that will be possible.

There is also a lot of talk of concealing this handgun. It's going to be more of a challange, but I suppose it could be done. It is fairly flat and weighs nothing. Mine has been utterly reliable and I'm currently at about 1000 rounds.

As for the magazine release being on the bottom of the grip, I didn't like it at first but it is easy to get used to and is fast. The only problem I see with it is that if used as a carry gun as some have suggested, it is very easy for someone else to disengage the magazine.

There has been some mention that this is a poor man's FN 5.7. I'm not all that excited about the FN. I've shot them and just ho-hum. The three things that make the PMR more fun than the 5.7 is; 10 more rounds in the grip, a third of the cost, and it is so very very light.

aubie515
October 24, 2010, 01:25 PM
I've been shooting the heck out of mine.

The magazines get progressively harder to load after about 20 rounds. 20 rounds load fairly easily. Also, don't play with the magazines after they are loaded. Leave them loaded. The cases become indented from pushing against them to load the next round and too much of this might affect how they work.

I was disappointed when I first got the gun out of the box, but it is really growing on me. 31 rounds. Let me repeat that, 31 rounds in the gun is something that has to be tried to know how much fun we are missing with other handguns.

It has been reliable except that the magazine has to be loaded with care otherwise the front of the bullet will be too low in the magazine and the round will not load. I have found that the perfect remedy for this is to use the polymer tipped bullets from Hornady or Remington. Remington has a larger bullet weight and the Hornady is faster.

It is light. Very light. It feels lighter than a loaded LCP.

Did I mention that this is a fun handgun.

I can hardly wait to be able to buy more magazines and I was thinking tonight as I shot a rabbit with it that I need to mount a small laser on the rail.

People keep talking about wishing it was in 22LR. I doubt that will be possible.

There is also a lot of talk of concealing this handgun. It's going to be more of a challange, but I suppose it could be done. It is fairly flat and weighs nothing. Mine has been utterly reliable and I'm currently at about 1000 rounds.

As for the magazine release being on the bottom of the grip, I didn't like it at first but it is easy to get used to and is fast. The only problem I see with it is that if used as a carry gun as some have suggested, it is very easy for someone else to disengage the magazine.

There has been some mention that this is a poor man's FN 5.7. I'm not all that excited about the FN. I've shot them and just ho-hum. The three things that make the PMR more fun than the 5.7 is; 10 more rounds in the grip, a third of the cost, and it is so very very light.
Dang, dude...you going to copy and paste your reply in every PMR thread?

bigfatdave
October 24, 2010, 07:33 PM
wyocarp ... could we get some pictures with the PMR30 compared to other common firearms? Both side views and rear would be especially appreciated.

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