Opinions on DAK triggers


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JDGray
September 11, 2010, 10:20 AM
I'm looking into picking up a Sig 226 DAK, but cannot find one to shoot. The closest thing to it was a Sig 250 that I dryfired, and really liked the trigger pull. I primarily want a non complicated SHTF weapon, that my Wife or Kids(both teens) could use, if needed. Those of you with the DAK equipped Sigs, how do you like them? I've read about light primer hits, is this a common problem? Thanks for any insight:)

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esheato
September 11, 2010, 12:02 PM
DAK is pretty darn simple. Same pull every time. What's not to love?

Sigh, I don't currently own one, but have been on the prowl for a P239 in 9mm DAK for a few years now. I've played with a few at the gun shows and that's what piqued my interest. Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat having never shot one.

9mmepiphany
September 11, 2010, 02:39 PM
I've handled several and shot 3 or 4 of them in classes (belonging to other students)...and I was very impressed.

I would compare them to a good stock S&W K or L-frame revolver. I've seen some outstanding shooting with the DAK trigger...it just takes a different technique when shot at speed. You shoot them like revolvers, your trigger finger is in constant motion

The Lone Haranguer
September 11, 2010, 03:05 PM
I was underwhelmed by the rental P226 DAK I shot, but it was too big for my hands, too. DAK doesn't shorten the reach to the trigger, as far as I could tell.

9mmepiphany
September 11, 2010, 03:33 PM
The DAK isn't designed to shorten the reach to the trigger. It is a modification to offer an initial lighter weight DA trigger pull

FIVETWOSEVEN
September 11, 2010, 04:09 PM
Why don't they include DAK in a DA/SA configuration?

9mmepiphany
September 11, 2010, 04:20 PM
Why don't they include DAK in a DA/SA configuration?
1. Because the DAK is a modification of the DAO trigger system
2. Because Bruce Gray had already developed a system to smooth/lighten the DA/SA trigger to that level www.GrayGuns.com

possum
September 11, 2010, 06:06 PM
i ran a sig through about 400rds with a dak trigger, and it was nice as i am a huge fan of the same pull everytime, one reason i stay away from da/sa guns, but i guess i am too used to my xd trigger, and the short resets on glocks to really like the dak.

AZGlock13
September 11, 2010, 06:21 PM
The DAK trigger system is pretty nice (IMHO). I believe the biggest reason Sig developed it was to mostly capture the LE contracts (most LE organizations prefer a pistol with a same trigger pull everything type of trigger system, like Glock, SA XD, S&W M&P and H&K LEM offers). I have a P239 9mm DAK, a P229R .40 DAK and a P220 Compact SAS DAK and I really enjoy shooting them. I also have a P226 and a P220ST that are the traditional DA/SA trigger system and also enjoying shooting them as well. 9mmepiphany, pretty much summed up what the DAK trigger is like. I guess I like shooting my DAK trigger Sigs a little bit more than my DA/SA Sigs, but not by much.:)

JDGray, I have never had any light primer strikes/hits with any of my DAK Sigs (of course, I'm not saying it could not have happened to other people).

JDGray
September 11, 2010, 07:58 PM
I have never had any light primer strikes/hits with any of my DAK Sigs
Good to hear:)

9mmepiphany
September 11, 2010, 08:06 PM
That reminds me...the DAK actually has a heavier mainspring than the DA/SA to insure ignition with the shorter hammer fall. It's trigger weight is all about trigger geometry

FIVETWOSEVEN
September 11, 2010, 09:16 PM
I haven't handled a DAK but I have handled a P250, is the P250 heavier?

JDGray
September 11, 2010, 10:16 PM
The 250 is within a pound of the DAK, I believe lighter.

Rexster
September 11, 2010, 11:24 PM
9mmepiphany described it well; DAK is much like a nice K-L-frame revolver DA pull. In fact, I use a K-frame .22 LR-chambered sixgun to practice my DAK shooting. I am in no hurry to buy a .22 LR conversion unit for the P229, as I did for my prior two duty pistols, the G22 and 1911. I shoot and carry DAK SIGs, and DA sixguns; training with either system benefits my performance in shooting the other system.

To be technical, DAK does offer a shorter but heavier trigger stroke for the second and subsequent shots, if the shooter only lets the trigger reset to the first audible click in the reset process. Being an old sixgunner, I ignore this option, and let it reset all the way, just as I do with DA revolvers. I don't see any reason to do something that might cause me to short-stroke the reset of a revolver.

I have read, from an authoritative source, that this shorter-reset option with the DAK system was intended as more of a fail-safe, for a stressed shooter who may fail to let the trigger return to the farthest forward position during a gunfight, than being intended as an actual method of shooting. However, some DAK shooters actually train to use the shorter reset option.

To be clear, this shorter reset position of the DAK trigger is fundamentally different from the SRT system available for DA/SA SIG pistols.

Regarding the reach to the trigger, that is achieved by installing what is called the "short trigger" by the factory, which would have been better decribed as the "thin" trigger, IMHO. There is simply less metal on the face of the trigger, meaning a shorter reach, ideal for folks with small and medium-sized hands. Many SIGs are now being shipped from the factory with the thinner triggers, making it the new default standard trigger.

It was a P229R DAK, with the short (thin) factory trigger, that prompted me to buy my first double-stack-magazine SIG. Before handling this one, in 2004, I had always thought the P226/P228/P229 to be too big for my hands. I now use several P229s for police primary duty and most personal-time concealed carry. My go-to P229s are DAK. Life is good.

EAJ
September 11, 2010, 11:38 PM
Had one on a SIG 239 SAS Gen 1. Shot it for a good while, but never adjusted to it. Eventually, I had it converted to a DA/SA.

9mmepiphany
September 12, 2010, 12:42 AM
Shot it for a good while, but never adjusted to it

Depending on your prior training, there is a fundamental difference in how the two trigger systems should be run at speed.

After the first shot of a DA/SA trigger, you reset the trigger, take up the slack, prep the trigger and wait for the sights to return to your target before pressing off the shot.

On a DAK, or revolver, you pull through the trigger break, release the trigger to reset and stroke through again...the objective is to have the sights back on target as the trigger breaks...the trigger never stops unless you decide to stop shooting

Full Metal Jacket
September 12, 2010, 12:55 AM
don't like DAO triggers, or any other lawyer proofed triggers.

Rexster
September 12, 2010, 12:22 PM
Lawyers had nothing to do with me deciding DA, every shot, is best, for me. I could still be carrying "grandfathered" 1911s on duty, if I wished. When I started carrying DAK, in 2004, I was a "kind-of" rebel, having to make sure certain anti-DAK supervisors were not at the qual range. These certain sergeants insisted only the decocker P229 met PD specs, even though the rules said nothing about DA/SA being the only allowable option. (Our qual range runs 24 hours a day, five days a week.)

The first guys to embrace DAK within my agency were some of the narcs, who qual under their own firearms training supervisors/instructors. They train and qual with handguns to a higher level than the SWAT guys, our PD's SWAT being full-time SWAT, under their own captain. The narcs were shooting and moving and communicating, at multiple turning targets, before the tacticool community embraced such shooting.

To be technically correct, I let my 1911s lapse when I switched to Glocks, but that was a short-lived experiment, as I soon discovered DAK, which I shot better than the Glock trigger system, as soon as I tried it. I am not saying DAK is best for everyone, nor anyone in particular, other than myself. I just wanted to make it clear that I would prefer DAK even if there were no such things as product liability lawsuits, no such thing as personal injury lawyers, and nothing written by Mas Ayoob about liability.

DAK puts the trigger pull of the weapon I shoot better than anything in the world, namely the medium-large-framed DA revolver, into an autoloader that holds twice as much ammo as the sixgun. I reckon that if I clamped a weight onto the accessory rail of my P229R DAK, to make it balance like a full-lugged sixgun, I might shoot it fully as well as the sixgun.

EAJ
September 12, 2010, 12:34 PM
Depending on your prior training, there is a fundamental difference in how the two trigger systems should be run at speed.

After the first shot of a DA/SA trigger, you reset the trigger, take up the slack, prep the trigger and wait for the sights to return to your target before pressing off the shot.

On a DAK, or revolver, you pull through the trigger break, release the trigger to reset and stroke through again...the objective is to have the sights back on target as the trigger breaks...the trigger never stops unless you decide to stop shooting

Thank you for those thoughts. Most of my firearms over the years have had SA, DA/SA or DAO triggers. Of the many firearms I've owned, not one has been a revolver. Spent many hours dry firing the DAK and at the range, but in the end just wasn't for me. :)

FIVETWOSEVEN
September 13, 2010, 06:41 PM
Other than the long trigger pull, is there anything else that is considered bad about the
P250? Sorry about going off topic.

Enachos
September 13, 2010, 09:10 PM
I've never really looked into these DAK sigs... and unfortunately still can't understand just how it works despite the posts on this thread. Can anybody tell me how these types of triggers compare, in particular, to the "DAO" trigger pull of my beloved Glocks? It might help make more sense to me haha.

joe_security
September 13, 2010, 09:12 PM
A good friend of mine purchased a 9mm P229 DAK. He was/is a Glock guy. He loves the Sig DAK and recommends it highly. In all fairness I have not fired it.

IMTHDUKE
September 13, 2010, 10:52 PM
Make mine DAK....smooth as silk....

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/P220DAK-1.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/bestsig.jpg

JDGray
September 13, 2010, 11:00 PM
I don't have to wonder any longer, as I picked one up today:) Night sights, 3-15rd mags, low miles. Trigger is just like the P250 I dryfired, now to see how it shoots! Thanks for all the responses, think I'm gonna like this one.

Full Metal Jacket
September 13, 2010, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE] Other than the long trigger pull, is there anything else that is considered bad about the
P250? Sorry about going off topic. [QUOTE]


the p250 was recently eliminated from the ATF pistol trials due to malfunctions. m&p's and glock were both awarded $40 million dollar contracts.

FIVETWOSEVEN
September 13, 2010, 11:30 PM
I am aware of that but others with them don't seem to be complaining. Most likely gonna end up with a DA/SA P220 but it always helps to do research.

Full Metal Jacket
September 13, 2010, 11:33 PM
Most likely gonna end up with a DA/SA P220 but it always helps to do research.

that's a better choice.

fastbolt
September 14, 2010, 02:20 PM
The best way to decide whether the DAK or traditional double action design in the Sig Sauer line is 'better' for someone probably involves that person trying representative examples on a range. Naturally, an existing good skillset foundation would be helpful in understanding the advantages & disadvantages of each design from a personal perspective.

From my perspective, I place the DAK as a distant second choice to a good TDA (traditional double action, or DA/SA), but then I've carried issued TDA pistols for 20 years and before that I carried issued revolvers. An initial DA trigger stroke isn't something that bothers me.

The primary trigger stroke of the Enhanced Double Action Only (what the DAK is called in the armorer manual material) requires approx. 6.6 pounds of pressure to function the trigger in the initial 'full length' trigger stroke.

The intermediate trigger stroke requires a partial reset of the trigger and a heavier (approx 8.3 pounds) amount of pressure to fire the pistol.

Granted, the primary trigger stroke actually tends to 'feel' lighter to many folks because of the excellent geometry of the design ... but it's long, too.

When I asked an armorer instructor why the shorter reset trigger stroke was heavier, he explained that the Sig engineers had decided that it was 'safer' to have the shorter trigger stroke require more effort on the part of the user/shooter (under the stress of the situation).

Remember, even though these pistols are sold in the commercial market, much of their intended market is military & LE contracts. Safety is a marketable attribute.

The DAK offers an alternative to their original DAO and their standard TDA guns for customers. Customers can choose the design that best suits their perceived needs.

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