Wilson Combat


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Sullyman
September 12, 2010, 11:06 AM
Wilson Combat Arms 1911's, Good, Great, So-So, Run fast?????
What's the overall reputation? Assuming fair price and all.

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Ridgerunner665
September 12, 2010, 11:09 AM
One of the best there is...and a contender for one of the top 3 IMO.

New, used?

cmgred
September 12, 2010, 11:13 AM
I've spent the money for two of them. I have other high end 1911s, they don't compare to a Wilson. I did borrow a guys Brown at the range, it was nice, but my next 1911 will be my third Wilson.

Quack
September 12, 2010, 01:31 PM
can't really go wrong with the semi-custom 1911's and the Wilson is no different.

just choose the maker that you like the best.

9mmepiphany
September 12, 2010, 01:43 PM
I agree, at the semi-custom/high end production level, it is mostly a matter of taste.

Some folks prefer a Mercedes AMG, some the BMW "M", some the Cadillac "V" and some the Lexus "F", make your choice and spend your money

BlayGlock
September 13, 2010, 12:14 AM
They make great guns. They are my third favorite high end 1911 maker behind Nighthawk and Springfield Custom.

Full Metal Jacket
September 13, 2010, 01:24 AM
i would only buy a high end 1911 like that if i found myself in a situation where i had money to burn.

features like the inside machine marks being polished out are nice, but completely useless to me.

there are FAR cheaper 1911's that'll perform at least as good.


if i were going to purchase a high end 1911, it would SA's PRO. it was the only one that could pass the FBI trials (even wilson couldn't).

skipsan
September 13, 2010, 02:08 AM
Of the four higher-end production 1911s I own, I'd rank the Les Baer as the best value, followed by the Brown SF, the SA Pro, with the Wilson CQB bringing up the rear as a very nice pistol but moderately overpriced compared to the others. As noted, in this price range everyone's gonna have their favorite(s).

TexasPatriot.308
September 13, 2010, 03:34 AM
you guys got good jobs and money to burn...

Ridgerunner665
September 13, 2010, 03:45 AM
Full Metal Jacket,

You're not telling the whole story...

Several gunmakers such as Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Novak's, Springfield, etc. were asked to build guns to FBI specs for their SWAT team guns in the nineties (RFP 6990 to be exact.) Springfield ultimately wound up winning the contract but the FBI had previously decided to go with Les Baer's 1911 based on their specs. Baer submitted a total of 5 pistols for evaluation and after winning the contract, the FBI sent the pistols back and requested Baer change the rear sights to Novak's as well as give them lifelong service/maintenance on all the contract pistols yet to be built. At this point Baer declined as he could see the storm clouds on the horizon and recalled all five pistols.

Baer didn't lose...he won, then declined the contract because he WILL NOT use any parts except those of his own choosing.

Full Metal Jacket
September 13, 2010, 04:53 AM
Baer didn't lose...he won, then declined the contract because he WILL NOT use any parts except those of his own choosing.

ridgerunner665,

you're not telling the accurate story....

provide us a source that proves baer "won"?


yes, baer didn't want to deal with a lifetime warranty required by the fbi (he doesn't even provide that for his civilian customers), but that in no way means he "won", then all of a sudden decided to drop out of the competition.

Ridgerunner665
September 13, 2010, 10:33 AM
Geez!...its common knowledge that he won the contract first...most likely due in large part to the fact the he already had the HRT team contract, before this particular contest even took place.

I don't have time to argue with you...if you want proof, Google is pretty easy to use.

Full Metal Jacket
September 13, 2010, 11:15 AM
Geez!...its common knowledge that he won the contract first...most likely due in large part to the fact the he already had the HRT team contract, before this particular contest even took place.

I don't have time to argue with you...if you want proof, Google is pretty easy to use.


so, you have no proof.

Quack
September 13, 2010, 12:50 PM
here's the story...

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/fbi_1911.htm
The FBI 1911 Contract
By Syd and friends

Much marketing mileage has been made on the FBI SWAT and HRT teams’ decision to use M1911 pistols. The road has been bumpy and some reputations have been damaged and made on the way. Les Baer was the first to get an FBI contract, but there were problems. Matt Gish made the grade but didn’t have the production capability. Ultimately, Springfield Armory’s production capability won the day. This is how it went down.

The Les Baer SRP was designed for the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) to replace their Wayne Novak-customized Browning Hi-Powers. Les and his team of pistolsmiths started with a Para-Ordnance P14-45 frame (.45 ACP/14rds) and added a variety of custom parts and touches, including Wayne Novak's LoMount sights and Walter Birdsong's Black-T finish. Unfortunately, Matt Gish, the pistolsmith who did most of the work on the trial SRP pistols left Baer to start his own shop, Gunsmithing Inc.. Baer tried to cut some corners on the delivered contract pistols, including the use of a different finish than the Birdsong Black-T. Once delivery began, there were lots of problems, mostly magazine related. In the end, pistolsmith Steve Nastoff was called in to correct the delivered pistols' deficiencies. Only 75 SRP pistols were delivered out of the 250 ordered before the contract was canceled.

Following this experience, the FBI rewrote the specifications to stipulate a single stack magazine, which opened up the field to a whole lot of gunsmiths. In the end, Springfield Armory got the contract because they could meet the demand and warranty. But they also had problems. Again, Steve Nastoff was bought in – he was there during the trials – and Springfield Armory switched from Wilson Combat to Metalform magazines. The FBI has now increased its order to 200 pistols a year.

The Springfield Bureau Model was designed for the FBI's SWAT agents to replace their SIG P226 pistols. David Williams’ team of pistolsmiths started with Springfield's match-grade 1911 frame and slide, and added a variety of custom parts and touches, including Wayne Novak's LoMount sights and Walter Birdsong's Black-T finish. Only Springfield Custom and Professional Gunsmithing Inc. (Matt Gish) succeeded in passing the FBI's harsh testing requirements, beating out Colt, Wilson Combat, and several other notables. The FBI specifications had stipulated that the pistol had to fire the Remington Golden Saber round accurately and this load proved to be a problem for several of the contestants.

Springfield received the contract in 1998 because they were in a better position than Gish to supply the requested 500 pistols per year for up to 10 years. The FBI guns are warrantied to 50,000 rounds, both for the FBI and the civilian model. Professional Gunsmithing Inc. "...would have been chosen..." if it would have had the production capacity to supply the pistols on time and warranty them for the 50,000 rounds.

Unfortunately, Springfield found that it is easier to hand build a few pistols to the FBI's specs than to actually mass-produce them to fill the contract. Once again, pistolsmith Steve Nastoff was called in to correct the delivered pistols' deficiencies. However, it appears that the FBI has not yet given up on the Springfield contract as they did with the Baer SRP contract.

9mmepiphany
September 13, 2010, 03:37 PM
I concur with the article posted my Quack...this is the same information I have found by talking to creditable 1911 smiths, when I was looking for either a high end production 1911 or a custom build.

The lessons I have learned from this research were:
1. Steve Nastoff will never have to build another custom 1911 as long as the FBI want to use that platform...he really has job security...last I heard he was part of Homeland Security
2. The Para-Ordnance platform really isn't what you want to start with
3. There are better choices than Remington's Golden Saber to test for reliable feeding of your 1911
4. The reputation of the Wilson 47D is fading, that of Metalform is rising (OEM for Ed Brown)
5. The Springfield Professional really is the equal of other high end/semi-custom production 1911s
6. Without an in-house 1911 armorer...or more training...I won't be choosing a 1911 as my primary .45ACP pistol

Full Metal Jacket
September 13, 2010, 06:10 PM
good post. thanx for showing us the story, quack :)

Ridgerunner665
September 13, 2010, 06:29 PM
I've seen a couple a different variations of that story...but that one is close enough for me.

Of all the pistols mentioned...the only difference between them is personal preference stuff, they are all solid pistols.

I could have bought any brand I wanted when I bought my Baer, but the others didn't have what I wanted...if I was having a full custom pistol built to my specs it would be identical to Baer's stainless Stinger...that little booger is the PERFECT carry gun...for me. (with one possible exception being slightly increased slide travel, thats what makes them finicky with mags)

Baer's mags suck with hollow point ammo...thats known fact (they are 100% in my experience with 230 ball though)...but that is the mags, not the gun.

Mine runs using any ammo out there with Tripp Gen II CobraMags.

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