Nice knife for self- protection?


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lookshigh123
September 13, 2010, 02:23 AM
Hi, there. Would u wear a knife for self-protection? If so, what kind of stuff do u like to use? What do u think about this Browning Stag Skinner Folding Knife (http://www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com/searchdeals.php?type=id&q=d180982&ru=28901583)? Is it nice stuff for self-protection?

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Rail Driver
September 13, 2010, 02:52 AM
I keep a couple knives on me most, if not all the time. One's a 3" drop point folder (linerlock) and good for cutting anything from a seatbelt to being used as a flat-head screwdriver in a pinch. The other I keep is a tiny little Xikar folder with a straight blade, great for stripping wires, opening envelopes and packages, cleaning my nails... you name it. In a pinch, if I absolutely must defend myself and don't have my gun for some reason, I'd probably pick up something stout and use it before I'd use my knife... If you're going to use a knife in a fight, even with a LOT of training, you need to be ready to go home looking like the guy in this link:

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=5749923

That said, if it's all I've got, it's better than harsh words, and can certainly do the trick.

RatDrall
September 13, 2010, 08:47 AM
Hi, there. Would u wear a knife for self-protection? If so, what kind of stuff do u like to use? What do u think about this Browning Stag Skinner Folding Knife? Is it nice stuff for self-protection?

Beware folders made from 440 stainless, it's generally junk steel, especially with the bad heat treats most use.

Your best bet for a starter folder is a Spyderco Delica or Endura. You can get them at Walmart, and they are by far the best knife for the money you are likely to come across.

If you want to defend yourself with or against a knife, you're going to need some serious training. I'd recommend starting at any local Fillipino martial arts school (kali, escrima, etc.). You can find one at fmatalk.com . Playing with knives is a science and takes some getting used to before it is remotely safe, especially when you start bringing the stress of a fight into the mix.

That said, if it's all I've got, it's better than harsh words, and can certainly do the trick.

You can't stab or cut yourself with harsh words, or have them taken away and used to kill you.

hso
September 13, 2010, 09:07 AM
I carry a knife as a tool that also would serve for defensive purposes. As a tool it has to be strong, secure when opened and hold an edge while as a defensive knife it has to be quick to open. The Browning has most of the good characteristics for a tool, but lacks the "quick" aspect. That said, before the advent of pocket clips and one hand opening designs, plenty of people have used classic nail-nick back-lock folders for self defense.

Using a knife defensively beyond the very basic level requires training and commitment as has been pointed out. If you're thinking about using a knife as a primary or secondary defensive tool then you're missing other options that are often better (see the various stick discussions). If you're including it in a defensive "tool box" you need to have skill to use it safely and training to help develop the skill.

As to 440 generally being junk, that's an accurate statement when the manufacturer won't tell you which 440 series steel is used. In the case of this Browning they've used 440-C which is a perfectly good steel when properly heat treated (like any steel, heat treat is one of the critical requirements).

usmccpl
September 13, 2010, 10:59 PM
Always have some kind of knife on me. Usually now its a Spyderco Police and a Benchmade auto. When i can I also have a fixed blade of some kind on me. You never know when terror will strike and you might not be able to get to your gun so a knife and skillset to use it(which I do have)should always be with you too.

JTW Jr.
September 14, 2010, 01:03 AM
If you truly plan to use it for self defense , go with the longest fixed blade you can legally carry ( open or concealed - your choice ) . When the crap hits the fan , and gross motor skills go out the window , getting that folder open when you need it will be very challenging.

And yes I have seen folders with the waves , flippers , etc....you are still at a disadvantage if you have to unfold it before you can use it.

Folders are carried because they are more convenient , not because they are more effective.

zignal_zero
September 14, 2010, 02:29 AM
If you truly plan to use it for self defense , go with the longest fixed blade you can legally carry ( open or concealed - your choice ) . When the crap hits the fan , and gross motor skills go out the window , getting that folder open when you need it will be very challenging.

And yes I have seen folders with the waves , flippers , etc....you are still at a disadvantage if you have to unfold it before you can use it.

Folders are carried because they are more convenient , not because they are more effective.

this is my logic, as well. fixed blade, long sturdy blade, and a good enough handle/gaurd to keep your hand from sliding down the blade when you contact something harder than anticipated. also, i like a tip centered in the width of the blade. i feel it makes thrusting more natural, that could just be me though. and ABSOLUTELY NO sawbacks :D

Yo Mama
September 14, 2010, 01:51 PM
As others said, fixed blade is the best, but usually harder to carry vs. a folder daily.

Most important issue with folders is lock type and steel quality. You can break any knife, but a strong lock will hold in most cases.

IMO, through dialogue here I've learned to trust and love the axis lock from Benchmade. I can't say enough good things about it, and it replaced my Spyderco Native for EDC (although I would also heartily recommend the Native as well).

CoastieShep
September 14, 2010, 11:29 PM
http://www.benchmade.com/products/550HG
This is my daily carry knife. The straight edge one. It's really just a tool, but I'd rather have that than nothing.

dairycreek
September 15, 2010, 01:51 PM
I do wear a knife for self protection it is Kershaw boot knife
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/dairycreek/BOOTKNIFE.jpg which I wear on my belt horizontally. Great knife for the purpose. Above all, get some self defense training if you are going to use a knife.

Onward Allusion
September 15, 2010, 04:15 PM
Fixed blade or one of these for quicker opening.
http://www.gerberknivesandtools.com/page/398461482

Black Toe Knives
September 15, 2010, 05:30 PM
Never bring a Knife to a gun fight.

rcmodel
September 15, 2010, 05:43 PM
+1
There is an awful lot to be said about that.
People don't fight with knifes or get in fist fights anymore.
They just pop a cap on ya azz.

And never bring a belt knife to a city that has local laws against them.

I'd suggest the OP check his local laws concerning knife carry, legal blade length, etc. before he gets too far along.

rc

RatDrall
September 15, 2010, 08:08 PM
Never bring a Knife to a gun fight.

Gotta run with what you brung.

Nothing is everything all of the time; guns aren't death rays that guarentee victory...

Vonderek
September 16, 2010, 11:37 AM
I recall a great thread a while back by Carl Levitian that related an experience he had in a coffee shop when a roided-up guy came in looking to kick his butt over some perceived insult. IIRC a simple Opinel in Carl's hand changed the macho guy's attitude instantly and prevented a possible beatdown. Not saying it would work in every case but in this case it did. No sober person wants to get cut. So yeah, I think a knife has a place in a SD scenario. But you better know how to use it and be mentally prepared to use it.

Here's the thread:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=497925&highlight=opinel

Carl Levitian
September 17, 2010, 03:51 PM
For what it's worth, what you don't need for defense is a nice knife. And you don't want it hair whittling razor sharp either. Think 'one shot deal'here. You're going to loose it to the police, or ditch it in the next dumpster you pass, if you end up using it on someone. Depending on the circumstances.

Yes, I'm sure the Spyderco's and Benchmade's and the other fancy knives are good knives, even may be very good knives, but they are over kill for what you need on the street. Look at what most street criminals use, there's a method to their madness. Quality of blade does not even come into this. We're not field dressing a buck here, just slashing or stabbing a criminal to get them off you, or buy you some space to get the heck out of Dodge. The knife that will skin out X number of deer before needing to be sharpened is not needed here.

The street punk will use a cheap serrated edge paring knife or other kitchen knife he stole from a discount store, and he may even have a cardboard and duct tape sheath for it. For slashing and stabbing a human body, it's fine. The human body has about as much resistance to being cut or stabbed as a bowl of noodles covered by a layer of cloth. That's not much. Anything made of metal and pointy will do the job. For sharp, you just want it 'prison shank sharp' like in stropped on a sidewalk or cement floor. If you have it really sharp, the cut will not even be felt right away. Think about the last time you cut yourself with a really really sharp knife, and it didn't even start bleeding for a bit. That's not what you want. you want the criminal to feel it immediatly, to feel pain. A razor sharp edge will neatly slice and not tear the tissue being cut. A course ripping edge is what you want. This can be put on any gas station 4.99 Spyderco knock off. If the knock off has some nice big serrations, even better. You want ripping, not neat cuts.

I remember one call we rolled on when I was with the Trinidad PD. A lady who was routinely beat up by her drucken husband had enough finally. In the middle of a beating, she grabbed a 1.99 cheap serrated bread knife off the kitchen table and rammed it into his big beer belly. Dropped him right to the floor. We got there and before the EMT's, and he was laying there moaning. The blade was so thin it wobbled every time he breathed in or out. Was weird to watch. Breath in, wobble wobble one way, breath out, wobble wobble the other way. But it did a number. Several hours of emergency surgery and he lived, but it was a close call. I gained a lot of respect for cheap knives as a police officer. Of the couple of homicides I handled as a police officer where a knife was the weapon, I never saw one that cost over 10 dollars. One stands out in my mind, because a cheap Rapala fillet knife was used. It slid right in between the ribs and into the heart. Death was instant. The Las Animas county coroner said he was dead by the time he hit the ground.

If you want a nice knife like you'd rather drive a Lexus rather than a Toyota, that's okay. But don't think a good knife is needed to inflict massive harm in a defense situation. Any piece of sharp steel will work just fine. It won't matter if it's a 100 dollar Benchmade or a cheap 5 dollar Chinese knock off of some tactical thing.

It's more important to know what your doing with, it than what the tool is.

The modern martial arts dojos don't really give good training on knife tactics. I wasted a couple years in Tang soo doo before I quit. The commercial studios just teach the standard defense from over head ice pick grip stuff, not the real street in your face stuff that you'll run into. The Philipino martial arts are better for bladed training.

The most important thing on the street is to just keep your eyes open. The street punks always work in at least two's. One will have a knife, and one will hang back acting as lookout. If you're not sleep walking, You'll see it coming, and that's the time to take out your own knife, even if to 'clean you fingernails' with it. Like a firearm, the sight of a weapon in a would-be victims hand is very very often enough to make the punk look elseware. Predators are looking for a victim, not a fight. They don't want to get hurt, and they have a very good idea of what a knife can do. I know there's all kinds of internet guru's preaching don't show your weapon. Bull hocky.

I can only go by my own experiance as a white haired old fart high on the predators hit list profile. Twice in the last few years I've had the would be predator back off from me because I had a knife in my hand. One time was I was stumbling along in condition white, and didn't notice the ambush untill almost too late. All I had was a ridiculous little Buck Hartsook in my hand, and some very harsh foul language. It was enough. The other time, I had a guy that was two of me, maybe three, but he didn't want to get in arms reach of me and a very humble little Opinel number 8. Both times I went on with my life because they backed off from a white haired skinny old guy with a knife.

The kind of knife you carry won't matter a bit. It's attitude and what you can do with it. There's guys in the cell block that if they have a home made shank, they'll put away a yuppy commando with a high end tactical.

Like has been said, software over hardware.

JTW Jr.
September 17, 2010, 08:03 PM
And you don't want it hair whittling razor sharp either

Disagree , why you want a knife other than as sharp as it could be ? That is like saying you don't want a firearm with pinpoint accuracy for self defense.

Yo Mama
September 17, 2010, 08:23 PM
It's more important to know what your doing with, it than what the tool is.


Nope, but you are close. You can have knowedge and ability, but without tooling it's nothing. Yes a 2 dollar knife will work....but I've seen a cheap lock fold onto fingers more than a few times.

shockwave
September 17, 2010, 08:36 PM
The modern martial arts dojos don't really give good training on knife tactics...The Philipino martial arts are better for bladed training.

It may have been the case that your school or instructor wasn't capable of teaching knife combat and defense, and I'm sorry if you feel your studies were not profitable. I can assure you and all readers here that there are good schools that teach realistic weapon attack and defense. As with anything else, you have to search out good instruction - it ain't falling off trees.

Yes, Filipino and Indonesian arts, kali, escrima, arnis, silat - do teach intensive bladework and are recommended to those with interest. And you are correct, the techniques shown in Black Belt magazine will get you killed. So don't waste time on that nonsense.

I see you've drawn a critique on the "sharp blade" issue. Rather than go into that, I'll just say that a good defensive knife should have some deterrent value, some brandishing qualities. Be sure you can execute the Brownie Pop opening. If you decide to brandish it, might as well put the opponent on notice that you know what you're doing and have prepared for it.

Your encounter in the bakery was highly typical; just the presence of the edged weapon changed all the dynamics. Any blade can cause serious damage. The goal, as with a handgun, is to hopefully leave the engagement without having to create a dead or injured person.

So a nice knife for self protection to my thinking is something like a Cold Steel Ti Lite. A rock-solid, proven strong blade with a variety of opening options. A kerambit is also a nice choice.

Black Toe Knives
September 17, 2010, 11:08 PM
Gotta run with what you brung.

Nothing is everything all of the time; guns aren't death rays that guarentee victory...
18'' Bowie is always a winner then. You can actually hid behind it when they start shooting.

JTW Jr.
September 18, 2010, 02:24 AM
Brownie Pop opening

There is a term I hadn't heard in many years. I thought that , along with other " dramatic " opening techniques went out years ago.

When you need it , any wasted motion is too much.

Much like firearms , you can train or practice , but until you actually have to use a knife or firearm for self defense , one never really knows what or how their training worked.

Simple is better , if you must rely on it for self defense , go with less moving parts , less wasted motion. Nix the fancy opening techniques required with a folder , go with a fixed blade , sharp , accessible , with a solid (non-slippery) grip.

Carl Levitian
September 18, 2010, 11:46 AM
"Disagree , why you want a knife other than as sharp as it could be ? That is like saying you don't want a firearm with pinpoint accuracy for self defense. "


It's a matter of pain and instant recognition of being hurt.

I never said dull, just said rougher edge. Big difference.

How often have you cut yourself with a very sharp knife and not even realized it for a moment? Or cut yourself and it didn't even start to bleed for a bit?

On the other hand, have you ever cut yourself on a jagged piece of sheet metal, and felt the instant burning pain? That's the big difference of the nerve endings being severed with almost surgical sharp blade, and being torn by a jagged edge like a serrated edge. Or an edge with a rough file like sharp edge. Either one will cut deep, but one is going to hurt way worse from the second of cutting. Very distracting to say the least, and that is what you want. Ever wonder why a paper cut hurts worse than a shaving cut? The edge of the paper cut you because it's so thin, but the edge under magnification is actually very rough. But you hardly feel the razor cut on your face. Same thing in knives.

Knife knuts, being knife knuts, obsess over their objects of obsession sometimes to the point of being counter productive. The street guy doesn't care about how his knife looks, or if it can shave hair. He just wants it to be able to inflict serious or fatal injury if need be. And he knows from his time in the joint, the big house, or what ever he calls it, that it does not take that much. The human body is a frail, poor design. Thin skinned and delicate. A sharpened toothbrush handle can puncture an abdominal wall with ease. What do you think is going to happen when a Taylor brand Smith and Wesson 10 dollar knife is used? It ain't gonna be any less deadly than a Sebenzza. Same thing when given a good mill smooth file sharp with a wee bit of smoothing out on a rough carborunum stone. That rough but sharp edge is going to rip right through the flesh, tendons, and ligaments on the hands and wrists of your attacker, but it's going to hurt like the h--- immediatly. Not a minute from now, but right now. You want your attacker to feel the pain right through any adrenaline rush he has going.

The other thing to consider, is clothing. A very very sharp knife with a fine polished edge from the 1000 grit hone, is going to slide on a lot of textiles. The rougher mini serrations of a course edge is going to grab and cut the material. With a short blade like on most folders, if you slide an inch or so of blade before it gets through, you've lost half the blade length before cutting into your attacker. You can't afford to loose edge in a fight. Getting through the sleeve of that hoodie and into the motor tendons and nerves of the arm under it all, is going to take a rougher edge to rip through.

I spent the first third of my life running around the streets of my native D.C. I'm a city boy, born and bred, and I admit that some of the people I hung out with as a teen were not the best. That was one reason dad moved the family out to the suburbs; to keep me and my siblings in a better environment. But I rode the bus and went back downtown anyways. After spending a lifetime as a city guy, I know what's going to work on the street. I must have survived to become an old man somehow. And what's going to work as a defense knife is not anywhere close to what a knife knut is going to have to dress out that buck. 99% of what you think is important in a knife, is not.

When it happenes, it's going to be right up close in your face, and it's going to be over in a few seconds, one way or the other. If you don't already have it in your hand, ready to use, forget it. Youré done. Forget all this bull hockey about waved blades, brownie pops, assited opening, or any other stuff from holyweird movies or knife magazines. That's why the homie has that serrated cheap kitchen knife in his sleeve or in the big center pocket of the hoodie he has on as he approaches you. It's already in his hand and ready. Question is, are you?

Life on the street is very much like life in a prison yard. You have to keep your eyes open for clues, watch the people around you or approaching you, and if someone you don't know is trying to get close to you, assume the worst and be ready to meet it. And forget everything the knife magazines have told you.

JTW Jr.
September 18, 2010, 12:31 PM
Have to agree to disagree , as I have never found a toothy edge , what most call a rougher edge to cut better than fine edge. Rougher edges might work better for a sawing motion.

Having cut many fabrics in the shop , sharper has always been better , be it cutting 8 , 9 , 10 , 12 oz leather , nylon , denim , etc. Be it shears or knife , sharper has always proved better in my use. Can you get buy with a less sharp knife , perhaps , but in most cases people who carry that blade for SD also use it for other uses. So while their "toothy" edge may be ok initially , with use it breaks down and becomes "buck-toothy" ;) , and then cuts no so well.

99% of what you think is important in a knife, is not. That I highly doubt sir. Don't discount my views merely because I prefer quality over crap.

If you don't already have it in your hand, ready to use, forget it. Youré done. Forget all this bull hockey about waved blades, brownie pops, assited opening, or any other stuff from holyweird movies or knife magazines. That I agree with 100%.

Life on the street is very much like life in a prison yard. You have to keep your eyes open for clues, watch the people around you or approaching you, and if someone you don't know is trying to get close to you, assume the worst and be ready to meet it. And forget everything the knife magazines have told you. I agree with that with the exception , of my thought being " assume the worst and be ready to avoid it if possible ".

Given the option , apply liberal doses of 230gr attitude adjusters until the threat has ceased. :)

Vonderek
September 18, 2010, 01:43 PM
Given the option , apply liberal doses of 230gr attitude adjusters until the threat has ceased.
I think everyone who visits this forum would agree with that 100%. However, the OP wrote this thread in the Non-Firearms section specifically regarding a knife for self-defense, not a handgun.

Hawaiian
September 18, 2010, 09:48 PM
You want to carry a knife that is normally used as a tool. A simple clip point or drop point blade.

The knife you use may be shown to a jury by an overzealous prosecutor. Yes, he may not buy your claim of self defense or that the treat warranted the use of deadly force. If you used some ‘tactical black knife’ with serrations designed for ripping flesh, or the tanto or dagger blade that was designed for stabbing innocent people, he will try and convince the jury that you carried this evil knife with the intent of harming others.

I collect auto knives and balisongs. While legal to carry here, I would never even think of carrying or using one for self defense. The prosecutor would have a field day with one of those evil knives in front of the jury.

I have some very nice, very sharp folders that look more like a gentleman’s pocket knife that will cut or stab just as well as a ‘tactikewl’ knife. Many makers are now using orange G10 for scales on some knives. Most people that might be on a jury will relate the color orange to a tool or to safety.

skwab
September 20, 2010, 05:04 PM
what Carl mentioned is absolutely true. As a Dentist, I do quite a bit of cutting on tissue so when I'm doing surgery, I want a razor sharp surgical blade. I want a nice clean cut that I can sew up neatly when I'm done.

But in a SD situation, the whole goal is for the situation to end as soon as possible, and for your attacker to run off and leave you be with minimal amount of damage to you, and a minimal amount of time engaged with the attacker.

When I make a cut on tissues, or when you cut yourself shaving - it bleeds for a long time - why? because with a fine blade there is a minimal amount of trauma, and so the body doesn't send enough of the necessary cells to stop the bleeding - so it seeps blood forever. Nervous tissue is similar - a fine cut creates little trauma so the signal sent to the brain is minimal.

With a roughened or jagged edge, the tissues are not sliced but ripped. The body interprets this trauma much more severely and reacts so - bleeding from a jagged cut stops much more quickly because your body bombards the area with the proper cells, but more importantly, the nervous system does as well, and the signal sent to the brain is immediate and much stronger.

This is why it was recommended that for a SD tool, a rougher edge is better.

RatDrall
September 20, 2010, 05:34 PM
I'll stick with plain edge for everything, because after years of experimenting with serrations I can't think of a single thing that they cut better than a sharp plain edge, including rope.

shockwave
September 20, 2010, 06:13 PM
If you don't already have it in your hand, ready to use, forget it. Youré done. Forget all this bull hockey about waved blades, brownie pops, assited opening, or any other stuff from holyweird movies or knife magazines.

Y'know, I don't know about you, but when it comes to knife fighting, I'm a big scared sissy. I train in a martial art that includes edged weapons of various sorts, and I'd like to think that I know a bit about knife attack and defense. One thing I'm pretty sure that I've learned is that I really don't want to have to do it on the street.

The only time I ever did pull a knife on someone (who'd pulled one on me first) I had a balisong - and this was back when nobody except knife junkies had ever seen one before. I just did the standard out-and-back and he saw that and put his knife away and that was the end of it.

To me, that's the optimal outcome. If it gets down to cutting and stabbing and people bleeding (probably me included), that's a bad day at the office.

So when I pick a knife for my commando raid on the electric plant and have to take out some guards surreptitiously, the Ka-Bar strapped to my leg is the weapon of choice. For fending off some street punk, I'm carrying a knife with some drama, either one of the autos or the Ti-Lite, so as to give the other fellow one last chance to re-think all of this.

Yes. You are correct. There are pros and cons to this approach, but I've experienced the dissuading power of a knife and, as with firearms, if brandishment gets the job done then everybody goes home. Fast, silent and deadly is good for leaving a corpse on the street, but those are messy and the aftermath tends to be expensive and complicated, from what I hear.

vynx
September 23, 2010, 06:33 PM
I've read that the reason bayonets are not sharp is so they rip and tear flesh which makes a jagged wound that is harder to mend.

I also read something that a cop wrote where the worst knife wounds he saw were from serrated blades because they don't cut clean. He said a dr. told him they are difficult to sew up.

My opionion, I think Carl has it right

Big Bill
September 23, 2010, 08:32 PM
...this Browning Stag Skinner Folding Knife? Is it nice stuff for self-protection? Browning should stick to making guns. No, that is not a good knife for self protection. A gun is better, but if you do choose a knife pick one that is commonly used as a fighter. I like this one...

http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/ontario/images/8760.jpg

Model ON8760: XM-1 Extreme Military Combat Folder w/ 3.375" Plain Blade, Desert Camo

Ontario Knife Company

Robust, overbuilt construction with a handle that is similar to what you would find on a tactical fixed blade knife!

Specifications:
Blade Length: 3.50"
Blade Material: N690Co Enhanced Stainless Steel, Cryoquenched
Blade Hardness: 59-60HRC
Handle Material: Aircraft Aluminum Handles w/ Desert Camo Coating
Lock Mechanism: Titanium Locking Liners
Closed Length: 4.75"
Overall Length: 8.0"
Weight: 6.3oz.
Carrying Mechanism: Reversible Pocket Clip

Features:
Ultra-light, Heavy Duty, Precision Balanced
Ergonomic thumb ramp and finger groove for positive hand placement under high torque.

Dual titanium locks increase stability and overall strength while maintaining light weight.

This knife works great for me.

In a fixed blade, I also like this knife:

http://www.knivesplus.com/media/QN-SP6.jpg

Ontario Knives, Spec Plus Knives, Ontario's vision of the next generation of military and sporting knives, feature epoxy powder coated blades, full tang construction, grooved Kraton polymer handles with integral guards and lanyard holes (except where noted), and combination leather/Cordura sheaths. Proudly made in the U.S.A.

This knife Knife features: 8" 1095 carbon steel blade .1875" thick, 13 1/8" overall...

about $50

http://www.knivesplus.com/QN-SP6-Ontario.HTML

I have one of these I keep by my side of the bed...

Gordon
September 23, 2010, 10:30 PM
Well for the other end of the spectrum 50 years of practicing to not take physical abuse from others I have reached this approach. The upper knife is a Darrel Ralph 7" blade ball bearing Ti handled bad boy that gives you a fixed knife "edge", it is California legal BTW.
The bottom knife is a Polkowski fighter that is thin, strong and lite and hides in jackets nicely, it is shaving sharp and VERY ergonomic for me.If I have a bigger knife than this it is gonna be a Mad Dog Voodoo Hound 7" or bigger (like a foot bigger).
The middle pocket pal lets you keep up with the Boyz with Krewl Tools, it is a "Black Knife from Ox forge, this is an early 90s one. The 440C is very well done in this US gubbamint agency proccured knife beefy enough to cut the biggest plant down, with lots of Bling Factor.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/gordonhulme/004-4.jpg

hso
September 24, 2010, 12:52 AM
Gordon,

You been raiding my knife cabinet?!;)

Nice selection.

Grey Morel
September 24, 2010, 09:29 PM
Extrema Ratio Praetorian? :p

bill.l.johnson
September 25, 2010, 01:25 AM
http://C:\Users\Bill\Pictures\main_image_199x418.jpg

:evil::)

lloveless
September 25, 2010, 03:22 AM
Gordon,
Where in Calif is the 7 inch Darrell Ralph legal. I was in Riverside County for 19 weeks in 2009, and researched the carry laws well. The longest pocket knife blade allowed throughout calif was 3.5 inches. Of course you can carry a machete cause it is a tool. The Ralph Darrell is a beaut but is too short to be a machete and too long to carry in the pocket according to the ordinances I am aware of. Please teach me if I am wrong.
ll

Gordon
September 25, 2010, 04:11 AM
The bastids pass gay new bills on a daily basis, so maybe I'm behind the curve. I gave up watching in fall 2008. The major over haul of knife law in 2002 allowed it. A concealed fixed blade requires a hunting or fishing license (and good moral character ) tho. Please show me anything about 3.5" in STATE law, maybe in local ordinances but I have not heard anything about any length of folding knives in STATE law.

LHRGunslinger
September 25, 2010, 05:32 AM
Never EVER look at a weapon as simple as a knife as "useless" in a gun fight. IF your firearm should malfunction for whatever reason you have a very expensive paperweight. Knives have been revered as weapons ever since they were invented. I feel everyone should get some basic hand-to-hand combat training. Your fists or a knife will never jam, run out of ammunition or have a squib load. There are some situations where all you CAN do is bring a knife to a gun fight or your fists to a knife fight, or worse.

hso
September 25, 2010, 09:30 AM
llovelss,

You may be remembering a fed law for fed facilities or a local ord. since there is no Cali blade length limit (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=639-653.2) for non-switchblade folders.

RatDrall
September 25, 2010, 02:33 PM
I feel everyone should get some basic hand-to-hand combat training. Your fists or a knife will never jam, run out of ammunition or have a squib load. There are some situations where all you CAN do is bring a knife to a gun fight or your fists to a knife fight, or worse.

Most people are too lazy to put forth the effort needed to learn to fight with or without a knife. Most don't consider what they will do when unable to carry their death ray.

It's easier to buy a handgun, fire it once, at a square range standing still shooting at still targets (just like the badguys do in real life :confused:), and feel well armed :uhoh:

Learning how to fight without a gun will free a gunnie from their gun dependency. It will also slim down that gut ;)

CDR_Glock
September 25, 2010, 09:58 PM
If you fight knife versus knife, the key is to protect yourself against lethal strikes. Odds are that there are more lesser trained individuals over trained ones. Odds are you may be fighting against someone with a serrated knife or kitchen blade. The most readily accessible knives are the bargain variety and Chinese made knives sold in Flea Markets and Street Vendors. This does not minimize the lethality of your attacker.

I do prefer fixed blades over folders for length of blades. I practice drawing knives or a pistol to facilitate muscle memory. The best defense of course, is avoidance of the situation, altogether. Even on a potential 3 on 1, I talked my way out of a scary situation. Luckily, I have never needed to utilize the Lethal Self Defense option.

Gordon
September 25, 2010, 11:06 PM
I've all ways relished closing with my enemy to destroy him, now at my age I have little other choice. A life spent on training pays off latter IMHO.
Right before the Blessed Col.'s death I was fortunate enough to sit at his feet while he gave an hour lecture on " combat readiness" in the guise of the Color Codes he codified.
What struck me was his strong resolute but sad statement "we are becoming a nation of cowards"
"the key to condition red is the readiness to take human life in a calm direct manner"

If a cap was in the process of being capped on me I'd be flying in on an off side lateral movement either gutting downward, pumping the heart repeatably , or stabbing thru the eye socket all REAL quicklike! Using the off hand to fend off the gun and riding the opponent down to where the head could be effectively severed. Sure if the gun was a threat i'd slice the tendons, maybe first thing. That move worked for me in a knife fight, but I did not want to destroy the opponent as I knew them.

gallo
September 26, 2010, 12:40 AM
I don't want derail this thread by any means, but I'd like to draw a parallel between round nose bullets and hallow point as being akin to a sharp smooth edge and a jagged, rougher edge. I think Karl has it right, just like a hallow point is preferable because it causes more trauma so would a rougher edge on a blade. Just my ignorant opinion on the matter.

zignal_zero
September 29, 2010, 06:21 AM
i gotta chime in and agree with all who despise the age old "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" CRAP. years ago, in Tampa, some pos tried to rob (with a gun) a dude who turned out to be an off duty LEO. the LEO took one in the arm as he disarmed and (probably) beat the excrement out of would be robber. here's the kicker - LEO had a gun on him. when asked why he didn't shoot the guy, he said (given the proximity) it made more sense to go hands on than draw.

guns are great, i carry one, i keep an even bigger one in the car. however, they are NOT the end all be all to combat. people were killin people, by the thousands, long before anyone ever made a gun. so, apparently, we (as a species) can gidderdun w/o the gun :)

personally, i'll take hair poppin' sharp plain edge over toothy or serrated. my logic is i'm not trying to cause the most pain recognition, i'm going for the most tissue disruption i can get with the effort spent. not to sound grim, but that extra fine stone in the sharpening process just might mean the difference between nickin an artery and severing it. just sayin

TimboKhan
September 29, 2010, 10:30 AM
That is like saying you don't want a firearm with pinpoint accuracy for self defense.

Actually, I don't care about pin-point accuracy in my self defense guns at all. I want reliability over accuracy. If I can put them into a paper plate at fighting distances, that is very literally all I care about. Accuracy is good, obviously, but we have become a society that worships at the alter of hyper-accuracy when the reality is that we neither need it or, for most of us, can't make use it anyway.

zignal_zero
September 29, 2010, 04:53 PM
Actually, I don't care about pin-point accuracy in my self defense guns at all. I want reliability over accuracy. If I can put them into a paper plate at fighting distances, that is very literally all I care about. Accuracy is good, obviously, but we have become a society that worships at the alter of hyper-accuracy when the reality is that we neither need it or, for most of us, can't make use it anyway.

i agree 100% IF i had to choose, luckily for me i don't. my carry piece is evil accurate and deadnutz reliable. life is good :)

Erik M
September 29, 2010, 05:34 PM
I picked up a CRKT hammond cruiser from SMKW for around 20 bucks, aus4 steel to boot. Plain edge to, I prefer a drop point non serrated blade for daily use and self defense.
4" assisted opening, I cant ask for much more. I also bought one of the cheap Chinese made Colt daggers, its a nice little boot knife for when im on my motorcycle.

9mmforMe
September 29, 2010, 07:05 PM
This is what I am carrying currently, Benchmade's Mini Presidio. I got a good deal...MSRP was $90 and I got it for $57.00.

http://www.benchmade.com/products/527

Even some basic training is very important for knife defense/attacks...just like accurate bullet placement, blade placement is essential as well. Destruction of functional tissue (muscle, tendons, and sensory organs) is very important. Vascular destruction is important too considering that hydraulic failure can be a factor in a knife fight (This includes major organ damage). Remember also that you are going to get cut and you will bleed....mindset is vital.

Most people who see a knife are scared...good thing. I'll keep my knife nice and sharp since I will most likely need it to be sharp for other daily applications and not the unlikely need to use it in a SD situation....if that happens then the other fella will be cut finely and not chewed on by a toothy blade :)

meef
September 30, 2010, 01:41 AM
I know there's all kinds of internet guru's preaching don't show your weapon. Bull hocky. :)

Long, long time ago I was walking the neighborhood collecting money for my little brother's paper route (the twerp had a cold or something, so I got stuck with the chore). I think I was 14 years old.

A car with 3 of the local tough punks pulled to the curb and one said, "Hey, wanna fight?"

The last thing I wanted to do was fight, but my damned never-known-for-it's-brains mouth piped up and replied, "Sure, why not?"

One of them grinned like a shark hearing the dinner bell and got out of the car.

I reached into my jeans pocket and pulled out the can/bottle opener (aka church key) that I carried because I thought it was cool at the time.

I stood there with that thing hanging in my hand by my side.

Boris Badass stood there for about 20 seconds or so looking from it to me, then back again for a few times.

He then got an "Aw the hell with it" look on his face, got back into the car and said something to his buddies, and off they drove.

Sometimes just showing is enough.

Sometimes.

YMMV.

JTW Jr.
September 30, 2010, 02:36 AM
Sometimes just showing is enough.

And in most states that is called " brandishing" which carries some serious charges itself ( though in Oregon it's not brandishing , it's called MENACING 163.190 perhaps reckless endangerment as well ).

Or it could be just enough for one to have tipped their hand , in which case , the other person could decide to play the trump card ( which may start with a 4 and end with 5 and has been known to cause red fluid leaks in humans ;) ).

If you have it out and ready , you best be sure you are justified.

zignal_zero
September 30, 2010, 06:31 AM
Sometimes just showing is enough

+1 :)

i used to live in a neighborhood where the line between panhandling and robbery was VERY blurry. the beggars would get forceful, argumentative, and sometimes just go to hitting or stabbing you after your 3rd or 4th "NO".

more than once, i've flashed a piece to get the point across that while i would rather not, i'm not opposed stepping up to that level.

in FL there is a difference between "aggravated assault" and "reckless display". one is a felony that involves a direct threat the other is a misdemeanor that involves "exhibiting in a rude, angry, or careless manner". quite frankly, i'll risk a misdeamor if it means i don't have to shoot someone.

smartshot
September 30, 2010, 06:35 AM
TOPS KNIVES (topsknives.com) devil's elbow. The retention is on the light side and the sheath wears out quickly, you may need to put a small piece of electrical tape on it to hold it in place, but man, what a knife!!!!!

meef
September 30, 2010, 09:45 AM
If you have it out and ready , you best be sure you are justified. I can't speak for anyone else, but you can be assured if I have it out and ready - I'm going to be quite certain I'm justified.

I don't go flashing weapons for casual amusement.

:cool:

Hot brass
October 2, 2010, 07:46 PM
For self defense a knife is a last resort. If one has to defend ones self with a knife, a sword would be my first choice. I too carry a pocket knife, but hope to only use it as a self defense weapon when the gun is empty.

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