Hot 10mm loads - current discussion....


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Chris Miller
September 15, 2010, 09:04 PM
Hey all,

Was hoping to open up a more current discussion on available "hot" 10mm loads. Mainly for hunting, and "possible" (I know, I know) protection against an angry bear.

I've heard some about Texas Ammo but they seem to have gone out of business? I also heard some about DoubleTap but their site seems to be a little funky, and everyone who carries their ammo shows "out of stock" on most of it so I am not so sure about them either.

Who are the companies to look to today for good, hot, 10mm loads?

Thanks in advance!

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lima_w
September 15, 2010, 09:52 PM
Have you looked at Buffalo Bore?

gofastman
September 15, 2010, 10:01 PM
screw BB, they use crappy Montana gold bullets and charge WAY too much.

some people have reported lower than advertised velocity from Doubletap

there is a new player in the 10mm arena, Swampfox ammo, I just ordered some ammo from them and will run their 200gr XTP back to back with DT through my new chronograph when i get a chance.

So far Swampfox is getting rave reviews from what I hear.

JoelSteinbach
September 15, 2010, 10:32 PM
Reload, Reload, Reload

roscoe
September 16, 2010, 05:58 AM
I think your critiques of Doubletap and Buffalo Bore are way off. They offer great ammo that you really cannot get anywhere else. DoubleTap has the advantage of being cheaper, and, incidentally, they are big 10mm proponents. I shoot both company's ammo through my 1006, and use their heavy .45LC and .357 ammo as well. I think it is great stuff, but obviously too pricey for plinking.

I have never heard of Swampfox, but they definitley do not offer the hotloaded hardcast ammo that would be appropriate for bear, which both BB and DT do, in many calibers. And Swampfox does not seem to be any cheaper than DT. I am not against Swampfox, but they have a ways to go before they are offering anything to compete with Doubletap.

hardluk1
September 16, 2010, 07:49 AM
You could allways do like i did with DT and order direct. I only found a couple prices cheaper by 2 dollers and none in stock and some even higher priced than from DT direct for 44mag ammo. My crony reads real close to there advertize high FPS in my revolver 1510fps average for 6 rounds on a advertized 1550. Check what you get from most big factory producers out of a test barrel and you will not match many for velocity. I have found that fed, win, rem don't often meet adverticeing specs.

357reloading
September 16, 2010, 12:22 PM
Reload, Reload, Reload
reloading for the 10mm and 40 S&W so many choices. From tame to hot.

gofastman
September 16, 2010, 01:28 PM
I think your critiques of Doubletap and Buffalo Bore are way off
they are indeed spot on, i dont know how you could think otherwise? :confused:

seed
September 16, 2010, 01:40 PM
Reed's makes good stuff...unfortunately 10mm is not always available. Contact them to find out if and when they will have it in stock. They are real good at getting back to you.

MTMilitiaman
September 16, 2010, 02:36 PM
Doubletap is top notch stuff. Think Black Hills quality, just not produced in the quantities. Very little in the way of complaints with Mike McNett's stuff. His 180 gr Gold Dot load is my preferred defense load. For black bears and general hunting/ trail protection, I would go with the 200 gr XTP. Maybe one of the heavier hardcast loads if you have a conventionally rifled aftermarket barrel and are carrying it solely for black bears. If you have a 10mm, you have to check out Double Tap.

I've also heard good things about Georgia Arms.

I avoid Buffalo Bore mostly because they market +P .40 S&W, which I find ethically sketch at best. It's misleading, unsafe, and any company willing to do that isn't getting my money.

I consider CorBon's 10mm loads more medium range than full power. They seem to download their ammo some, IMO to make their .400 CorBon look more impressive than it really is. My standby medium range load is the 175 gr Winchester Silvertips. They seem to do alright when I don't have Doubletap or good handloads on hand.

KBintheSLC
September 16, 2010, 03:03 PM
DoubleTap stuff has worked well for me. The 200g XTP load is a real monster. Here are some tests... http://brasstard.com/2010/01/11/in-review-10mm-auto-from-doubletap/

Of course, rolling you own is really the way to go.

roscoe
September 16, 2010, 04:30 PM
At any rate, if bears are a genuine issue, you need to get the hottest, heaviest hardcast loads you can find, from whatever source. Skip the softpoints and hollowpoints; you need penetration and bone-breaking, non-deforming slugs.

Broken Anvil
September 17, 2010, 01:24 PM
If you own and shoot a 10mm you won't get the full pleasure out of it untill you start reloading. It's a dream come true.........you can tailor it to do whatever you want. I shoot a S&W 1006 and it has become my favorite at the range.

SeanMTX
September 17, 2010, 02:23 PM
I found Double Tap to be WAY overpriced for what you get.

I use Winchester Silver Tips (lower load than DT or Buffalo Bore) and Buffalo Bore. If you get the old BB, they use Speer Gold Dots, which I'm a big fan of. You can feel the extra recoil in BB vs DT or Silver Tips. I use and highly recommend them.

wow6599
September 17, 2010, 03:17 PM
I want to know what powder and primers BB and DT use to achieve their velocities. I roll my own, mostly with Winchester AutoComp or Alliant Power Pistol; good powders that don't come very close. Blue Dot comes the closest to hitting DT & BB numbers, but it's still about 100-200 fps less.
Anyone know what they use?

Stumper
September 17, 2010, 11:14 PM
wow6599, They say that they use non canister grade propellants.......... which means that they may indeed be using "Power Pistol" or "4756" or whatever but it isn't the same as the stuff you buy in small containers-they have to work up their loads based upon the behavior of their particular bulk lot.
As for "Hot" 10mms I haven't chronoed Bitterroot Valley Ammunition Company's stuff. It may not be smokin' like DT or BB but it isn't 10mm lite (based upon recoil). It certainly is comparatively inexpensive.

Stevie-Ray
September 17, 2010, 11:39 PM
For black bears and general hunting/ trail protection, I would go with the 200 gr XTP.And that's exactly what I do when I'm in the wilds of my northern retreat, or in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. It is also the load that shoots best out of my G29, so I'm a happy camper.

Full Metal Jacket
September 18, 2010, 12:38 AM
swampfox ammo is pretty much it for full power 10mm that achieves it's advertised velocity AND doesn't send you crappy montana gold jhp's.

buffalo bore achieves it's velocities, but uses montana gold bullets and is obscenely overpriced.

DT can fall up to 200 FPS short of it's advertised velocities, and uses montana gold jhps.

swampfox uses hornady xtp, winchester silvertip, and golden saber jhp's. their ammo also meets or exceeds slightly it's advertised velocity.

Justin Holder
September 18, 2010, 05:47 PM
I have some BB that is loaded with Gold Dots and I have only good things to say about them.

I would be very disappointed to hear that they have changed over to an off-brand bullet.

the-ghost
September 18, 2010, 07:36 PM
swampfox ammo is pretty much it for full power 10mm that achieves it's advertised velocity AND doesn't send you crappy montana gold jhp's.

buffalo bore achieves it's velocities, but uses montana gold bullets and is obscenely overpriced.

DT can fall up to 200 FPS short of it's advertised velocities, and uses montana gold jhps.

swampfox uses hornady xtp, winchester silvertip, and golden saber jhp's. their ammo also meets or exceeds slightly it's advertised velocity.

:rolleyes:

all the dt i got in 10mm is nosler, barnes or hard cast. maybe you should look at what your ordering before you order?

gofastman
September 18, 2010, 09:31 PM
all the dt i got in 10mm is nosler, barnes or hard cast. maybe you should look at what your ordering before you order?
They did try to sneak MG bullets in to more than a few customers, I think they may have got their act together now though.

Full Metal Jacket
September 19, 2010, 12:34 AM
all the dt i got in 10mm is nosler, barnes or hard cast. maybe you should look at what your ordering before you order?

**facepalm*

why don't you order yourself a bunch off gold dot from them ;)

the-ghost
September 19, 2010, 01:25 AM
only ever ordered gold dots in .40, not that it would matter, and they were well, gold dots. :neener:

whats their regular jhp, mt gold?

Full Metal Jacket
September 19, 2010, 01:34 AM
whats their regular jhp, mt gold?

both BB and DT just took gold dots & hornady XTP's off their websites only a few weeks ago, after sending people montana gold bullets for almost a year while still advertising gold dots & XTP's.

so, unless you order golden saber, or barnes x, or hard cast, you're getting montana gold now. (which royaly suck)

there's a bunch of threads about it on various forums, that's how i found out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsGnDtgVHc0

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1178403

the owner of DT (mike mcnett) is a mod on several 10mm forums, and hasn't been online at all to address the multitude of complaints.....

the-ghost
September 19, 2010, 01:53 AM
false advertisement is of course messed up. the OP wanted a woods load and after watching that video the montana gold round might be a good choice for people shooting pistols that lead heavy. for regular cc two legged situations though i agree complete garbage.

Full Metal Jacket
September 19, 2010, 02:00 AM
XTP 200grn jhp's: good expansion & deep penetration=large permanent wound cavity.

SKILCZ
September 19, 2010, 10:34 AM
I've had good luck with DoubleTap, though I admittedly have not hunted or taken a bear with my 10 mm.

jmr40
September 19, 2010, 05:04 PM
Double Tap advertises 1300 fps with 200gr hardcast. My chronograps says 1315fps. That is close enough for me.

Casefull
September 19, 2010, 10:55 PM
The powder you want is 800x. It will give you more velocity and is easier on the brass. I get the 1300 + velocities out of my 45 super with it as well. I do not mind the montana gold for reloading...I use lots of them. There 55 g .223 is far more accurate than winchester fmj bullets.

draxxusx
September 20, 2010, 08:45 PM
Could anyone tell me where to find DoubleTap Gold Dots? On their website all I see is regular JHP and Controlled Expanse?

seed
September 20, 2010, 11:42 PM
Right now you can't find GD DT loads. Speer decided to not allow others to use their bullets to be loaded and sold by others...or at least they are making it more difficult.

draxxusx
September 20, 2010, 11:46 PM
Ahh I see. What would you go with in terms a defensive round from DT? Does the XTP have too much penetration?

Swampfoxammo
September 23, 2010, 04:50 PM
I have never heard of Swampfox, but they definitley do not offer the hotloaded hardcast ammo that would be appropriate for bear, which both BB and DT do, in many calibers. And Swampfox does not seem to be any cheaper than DT. I am not against Swampfox, but they have a ways to go before they are offering anything to compete with Doubletap.

I do offer a 10mm round and other calibers, that are effective on large game, bears etc, It's not hard cast, It's a 200gr Hornady FMJ flat point. In my opinion, a better bullet for bear than a hard cast bullet.

http://www.swampfoxgunworks.com/swampfox/product.php?productid=17588&cat=347&page=1

They are cheaper than DT and BB

I'm not really trying to compete against DT or BB, I just offer a product that meets a requirement and price it the best I can.

Somethings working, I've sold alot of them

MTMilitiaman
September 23, 2010, 06:49 PM
Ahh I see. What would you go with in terms a defensive round from DT? Does the XTP have too much penetration?

The 180 gr Nosler JHP load should be more than adequate. I haven't seen the gel results for it. The results for the 135 gr Nosler are impressive, but I prefer more penetration than that. I've always hung around the upper end of the weight spectrum in the 10mm because I generally prefer heavy for caliber bullets in most calibers, and I feel that is where the 10mm has the biggest advantage over the .40--bullet weights of 180 grs and higher. A 180 gr Nosler JHP at ~1300 fps should do the trick:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=381

Kitt
September 23, 2010, 09:15 PM
In my Glock 20 I use the Hornady 200gr XTP and it shoots some really tight groups but my Glock 29 likes the Winchester 175 gr Silver tip. I have a Dan Wesson / CZ CBOB that will shoot factory ammo & my crappy reloads well but my favorite 10mm is my Para Ordnance P-16 Limited that I had reamed out to 10mm. The fullsize 1911 package in 10mm is hard to beat and it shoots everything well.
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo130/LWKITT/IM000540.jpg

sgt bones
September 24, 2010, 01:39 AM
My buddie used a chrono with swamp fox (real gold dots ) 180 gr at 1380 (avg).

Full Metal Jacket
September 24, 2010, 01:58 AM
I do offer a 10mm round and other calibers, that are effective on large game, bears etc, It's not hard cast, It's a 200gr Hornady FMJ flat point. In my opinion, a better bullet for bear than a hard cast bullet.

http://www.swampfoxgunworks.com/swam...cat=347&page=1

They are cheaper than DT and BB

I'm not really trying to compete against DT or BB, I just offer a product that meets a requirement and price it the best I can.

Somethings working, I've sold alot of them

welcome! good to see you joined, my friend. :)

i am a recipient of your awesome 10mm ammo (as you can prob tell from my previous posts), and it rocks!

sgt bones
September 24, 2010, 02:46 PM
Thank You

Swampfoxammo
September 24, 2010, 04:52 PM
No, Thank you:D

Full Metal Jacket
September 24, 2010, 04:54 PM
i've heard that using heavier wolff springs with your glock10mm's will increase bullet velocity by slowing down the barrel unlocking process during firing. thus keeping more pressure behind the bullet.

any truth to this? i have a wolff 21lb spring in my g29.

Zoogster
September 24, 2010, 05:19 PM
i've heard that using heavier wolff springs with your glock10mm's will increase bullet velocity by slowing down the barrel unlocking process during firing. thus keeping more pressure behind the bullet.

Sorta. It reduces the spread which can vary 50-100fps if it opens easily, which on some shots obviously means it will be slightly faster.

Ideally the spring you choose should be soft enough that all of the recoil is not instantly absorbed by the shooter (the strongest spring that reliably functions means less recoil is absorbed by the action and more by your wrists) and hard enough to keep it locked until pressure has fallen. Too hard will also increase muzzle rise.
Softer springs allow use of a wider spectrum of loads.
Too soft and you can feel the action more like a pendulum snapping all the way back too hard (which also gives more muzzle rise.) Which beats up the gun more.


The perfect spring for a given load gives the least felt recoil and muzzle rise. It is not critical for function to have it perfect though.
One of the great things about the 10mm is the ability to use a very wide spectrum of loads, but if you are primarily going to be using the upper power limits with heavy bullet weights then a spring setup dedicated to that could be worthwhile.



People shouldn't overdo it in the quest for the highest power rounds though, there is yet other calibers if you really want to go higher. Rounds just short of kabooming will kaboom in less than perfect firing conditions. Like with some dust and moisture from being out in the wilderness on a hot day.
This is why the reloaders who insist on loading right to the point of overpressure signs and then carrying that round routinely are playing with fire.
A little margin for increased pressure adds a measure of safety if everything is not perfect.
The last thing you would want after falling down in some water or mud while being attacked by a predator is to pull your gun and have it explode in your hand because the water or dirt in the gun pushed the pressure just over the top.

Full Metal Jacket
September 24, 2010, 05:57 PM
^^thanks for the info!

yeah the stock spring weight is 17lbs in the g29, and i put in the wolff 21lb one. i also have the 23lb one, but haven't tried it.

the 21lb one cycle low power and high power 10mm without issue, so maybe i'll just keep it that way. it does decrease the muzzle flip noticeably as well :)

GMHAYESUSN
September 25, 2010, 04:02 PM
Ive shot aprox 300-350 rouns of Double tap through my 10mm 1911 with no issues i have a few boxes of buff bore but due to my current duty station they are going to be in the safe for a while

MTMilitiaman
September 25, 2010, 04:47 PM
I tried a 22 pound spring in my G20. It slowed things down a little and made it so it wasn't as snappy as the stock spring weight, and certainly kept brass closer and easier to find. But it also increased felt recoil noticeably. In the end I went with a happy medium and put the 20 pound ISMI spring on a stainless guide rod. It works well with everything I have fed it, keeps things smooth and makes it easier to track the front sight without adding so much to the felt recoil. I'm happy with it.

O and I am not sure how I feel about a Gold Dot @ 1380 fps. I was okay with DT's published 1300 fps because Speer listed this as the highest velocity the 180 gr Gold Dot was designed to perform at, and this was the highest velocity they listed load info for. Even then there were rumors of it over expanding and folding over itself. Adding more velocity may look good on paper, I am not sure it adds to the actual performance of the round, and it could possibly be detrimental.

Chris Miller
September 25, 2010, 09:22 PM
*oh well - removed

Swampfoxammo
September 25, 2010, 09:47 PM
I tried a 22 pound spring in my G20. It slowed things down a little and made it so it wasn't as snappy as the stock spring weight, and certainly kept brass closer and easier to find. But it also increased felt recoil noticeably. In the end I went with a happy medium and put the 20 pound ISMI spring on a stainless guide rod. It works well with everything I have fed it, keeps things smooth and makes it easier to track the front sight without adding so much to the felt recoil. I'm happy with it.

O and I am not sure how I feel about a Gold Dot @ 1380 fps. I was okay with DT's published 1300 fps because Speer listed this as the highest velocity the 180 gr Gold Dot was designed to perform at, and this was the highest velocity they listed load info for. Even then there were rumors of it over expanding and folding over itself. Adding more velocity may look good on paper, I am not sure it adds to the actual performance of the round, and it could possibly be detrimental.

please send a link to that info.

noylj
September 25, 2010, 10:44 PM
For max loads for 10mm Auto, use H110/296, N110, 2400, or AA9. It is hard to bead H110/296.
Personally, if I had an urge to take the 10mm to max, I would simply pull out my LAR Grizzly in .45WinMag.
Great gun, the Grizzly...

The_Shootist
January 1, 2011, 09:48 PM
What would be an appropriate loading for SD in terms of weight? 180gr? 200gr? Something else?

swinokur
January 2, 2011, 09:27 AM
Georgia Arms

www.georgia-arms.com

I like all the others mentioned. I did hear no one seems to be able to get GD's so the XTP's look good as well if you can find them. I'd rather use Montana Gold bullets rather than see "out of stock"

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