9x18 ammo in C&R guns


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leadcounsel
September 16, 2010, 03:56 PM
Those of you that use popular C&R handguns, such as the CZ82, Makarov, P-64, etc...

What range ammo seems to work best or worst? Does steel cased ammo work reliably?

For those that use hollow points, how does it work and what do you recommend for self defense ammo in carry guns?

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dusty14u
September 16, 2010, 04:19 PM
Due to accessibility I have used on Brown and Silver Bear ammo in FEG PA63. Bought very cheaply at Cheaper than Dirt. $9/50 for Brown and 10/50 for Silver. Silver Bear HP ammo runs great in mine too. Haven't had a chance to shoot any other ammo through it since I bought. Great little gun.

harmon rabb
September 16, 2010, 04:19 PM
I have a cz-82. It doesn't care what it is fed. Steel cased ammo works fine. I carry it with buffalo bore hardcast rounds now, but have in the past carried it with wolf steel cased fmj.

Olympus
September 16, 2010, 04:27 PM
I've shot a ton of Brown Bear through my P-64. I haven't been able to find anything cheaper and my little gun eats that stuff like candy!

mgmorden
September 16, 2010, 04:43 PM
9x18 isn't available in local stores around here, so it's a mail-order item. I typically don't like to shoot steel-cased ammo in anything (too many bad experiences with cases getting stuck in a variety of guns), so I've never tried them in my CZ-82, but I've found Sellier and Bellot ammo to work very well.

Wishoot
September 16, 2010, 04:55 PM
My Cz82 doesn't care what you feed it. It seems to digest everything just fine.

gearhead
September 16, 2010, 04:57 PM
My P-64 and Makarov have each eaten a steady diet of hollow point Silver Bear since I've owned them. I originally bought a box of FMJ and a box of JHP but the cost difference is so small that I just buy JHP now.

GLOOB
September 16, 2010, 08:18 PM
Brown or Silver Bear FMJ, all the way. Never a jam with either my P64 or PA-63.

The Silver Bear Hollowpoints jam in my PA-63, and not in the way you'd think. The nose chambers fine, but the slide inexplicably stops just a quarter inch from full battery, once every other magazine or so. I have no explanation!

Olympus
September 16, 2010, 10:57 PM
There's just something about my P-64 that I just love. The longer I own it, the more I like it. It just fits its niche perfectly. It was incredibly inexpensive, incredibly reliable, and in incredibly good condition.

I need to look into that Silver Bear JHPs though. Where is everyone getting their's at?

Broken Anvil
September 17, 2010, 01:19 PM
My CZ-82 and my German Makarov eat anything I feed them. Steel case Russian ammo seems to be rather dirty but it still function well. I tend to stay away from steel case ammo in any firearm due to the problems with laquered cases sticking and extractors being damaged. The brass cased stuff isn't much more expensive and you can always reload it.

dusty14u
September 17, 2010, 02:28 PM
There's just something about my P-64 that I just love. The longer I own it, the more I like it. It just fits its niche perfectly. It was incredibly inexpensive, incredibly reliable, and in incredibly good condition.

I need to look into that Silver Bear JHPs though. Where is everyone getting their's at?
I just bought 200 rds of Silver Bear HP's from Sportsmans Guide. They have them in stock as of last night. $12 per 50. I also buy them from Cheaper than Dirt when they are in stock.

DTWeaver
September 17, 2010, 03:00 PM
P64; PA-63; Mak & CZ82--- never any problem with Brown or Silver Bear. I save the Sellier & Bellot for carry though. Check out 'Ammotogo' for good prices & service.

cougar1717
September 17, 2010, 03:58 PM
9x18 guns usually do not have a problem with steel cased ammo at all. The CZ-82 was designed to shoot it. Brown bear & silver bear are standard for the caliber. It makes me wonder if brass cased 9x18 was intended for the "western" consumer.

Snowdog
September 17, 2010, 05:24 PM
I use both Silver Bear, Barnaul and Brown Bear in both my CZ-82 and P-64 without any problems.

I hope those who are purchasing Silver Bear JHP aren't expecting anything that resembles expansion, because they don't (expand, that is). Even a point blank shot into bare plumber's putty (that will typically over-expand and fragment JHPs) will only sometimes yield a strange looking bullet where the hollow cavity has been enlarged and part of the side has been folded down, but not appearing anything like "expansion". For the most part, they won't expand even then and penetrate nearly as deep in putty as an FMJ.
I don't think LVE's Silver Bear 94gr JHPs will expand under any circumstances on the street. It's a shame as the 115gr and 120gr versions expanded wonderfully in similar tests years ago.

However, they do have a flat meplate (if you consider the hollow cavity a flat surface as it's not prone to expand) and work for the most part like a truncated FMJ, so I still use them if I carry a 9x18. I suspect the wound caused by their profile may increase blood loss, which is what usually causes incapacitation in the first place (if a hit to the CNS isn't made).

They're also cheap enough for target work, costing about a dollar more than FMJ, so the cleaner holes they cut in paper is useful as well.

GLOOB
September 17, 2010, 05:58 PM
problems with laquered cases sticking and extractors being damaged.
These are problems associated with locked breech firearms. In your CZ-82, or any of the other 9mm mak pistols, these things are not an issue. In a blowback pistol, the extractor does not rip the brass out of the chamber. The gas and recoil do that. The extractor is just there to hold onto the brass until it hits the ejector (and to extract unfired cartridges).

jeepguy
September 17, 2010, 06:57 PM
it has feed everything well, but my favorite is silver bear. i even tried us & it didn't shoot any better then the silver bear.

Olympus
September 17, 2010, 11:00 PM
Check out 'Ammotogo' for good prices & service.

I went with Ammotogo for my last order of 500 of 9x18 Brown Bear. I guess I'll shell out a few more dollars next time and step up to the big leagues and get Silver Bear next.

zxcvbob
September 17, 2010, 11:09 PM
I have a CZ-82 and use Brown Bear FMJ and Silver Bear JHP's in it. Also I've cut down a couple of hundred 9mm Luger cases and reload them with 93 grain LRN bullets. (I need to spray paint the brass hot-pink so I can find them easier after shooting)

It's the only automatic I have that has *never* misfed or jammed. It also has the lowest round count, so maybe that's not saying as much as it sounds. :rolleyes:

Snowdog
September 18, 2010, 03:11 AM
Typical 94gr SilverBear JHP expansion when it does expand (hardly ever). The semi-expanded JHP was fired from a P64, point blank, into bare plumber's putty.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4153/5000081105_ec80e20c45_z.jpg

However, they're accurate, reliable and cheap... so they're what I use.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4813605493_96d21c51c4_z.jpg

Olympus
September 18, 2010, 12:27 PM
Nice shooting with the 64! Once you get the sight hold figured out, you pump out some accuracy. Yours looks like it's good shape too. Mine is a 76 too.

bdb benzino
September 18, 2010, 03:43 PM
Silver Bear JHP all the way! I got mine from Ammo to Go, 500 rounds for $100.

Ifishsum
September 18, 2010, 05:07 PM
"problems with laquered cases sticking and extractors being damaged"

These are problems associated with locked breech firearms. In your CZ-82, or any of the other 9mm mak pistols, these things are not an issue. In a blowback pistol, the extractor does not rip the brass out of the chamber. The gas and recoil do that. The extractor is just there to hold onto the brass until it hits the ejector (and to extract unfired cartridges).

+1 my son's PA63 once lost the extractor completely, fired rounds were still ejected as usual. The only indication something was wrong was the safety would not stay disengaged (because the extractor spring also pushes back on the safety detent).

combloc guns generally have no problem at all with steel cased ammo, in fact they were probably made for it.

Pyzon
September 18, 2010, 09:04 PM
Nothing but good with the Silver Bear FMJ or HP in my 82's, but the guys at the range have a fit if they catch you shooting it indoors. If you get caught, expect to be sent home.

rd2007
September 19, 2010, 02:12 AM
I shoot the Monarch stuff from the local Academy. It's steel cased, $9.99/50 rounds, and there has never been an issue with it.

Snowdog
September 19, 2010, 07:20 AM
Yours looks like it's good shape too. Mine is a 76 too

Thanks, I rather do like the P64 though I never thought I would after reading endlessly about the horrible DA trigger (which though correctable, is very true). What I didn't know until after I bought mine is how excellent the SA trigger is. Its SA trigger is about as light/crisp as the DA is a heavy.

In the past, I admit to having bad-mouthed the 9x18 for defensive use. However, I brought along/carried only this svelte P-64 during a recent vacation to Myrtle Beach and surprisingly, for the the week we were there, I felt adequately armed (that is, not especially "under-gunned").

Though I carry a 9x19 the vast majority of the time, I do occasionally carry the P-64. There's just something about the P-64 that I find strangely comforting... maybe it's just knowing that mine has so far proven to be flawlessly reliable and that I can put those little slugs exactly where they need to go or that it shares the same birth year, but it feels like there's something else. It's rather bizarre.

Pilot
September 19, 2010, 07:53 AM
I have four Makarovs, Russian, Bulgarian (2) and East German. I buy whatever 9x18 I can get inexpensively. Wolf, LVE, Brown Bear or Silver Bear. Lately, its been Brown Bear. Its all steel case stuff and is accurate and reliable. Plus its CHEAP!

timburn
September 19, 2010, 09:20 AM
Mine has never had a failure with any Ammo. Steel or otherwise. I am carrying very expensive Hornaday HP in it now. Any thoughts on that expansion.
Tim

Thorgrim
September 21, 2010, 06:25 PM
All I could find when I bought my Bulgarian Mak was Wolf. I've run about 500 rounds or so through it, and not one single failure. The factory sights are a bit small for my tastes, but mine is an accurate pistol and an instinctive pointer. You can shoot a very, very quick "Mozambique" with one. Very few people get up again after being on the receiving end of that routine, even if the rounds are "merely" 9x18mm. :D

PS - I'd like to see the Wolf stuff chronographed, it has the feel of being considerably on the hot side, and the primers in the fired cases support that feeling.

nalioth
September 21, 2010, 06:33 PM
Does steel cased ammo work reliably?
Communist guns were designed from the outset to use steel cased ammunition.

Russia and it's closest allies have been using steel cased ammo for over half a century.

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