1911 photos question


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TexasPatriot.308
September 16, 2010, 07:36 PM
I own a couple of 1911s, I carried one 38 years ago in the military, but I got a question. Why in most photos, are they shown obviously cocked with the hammer back? I remember the story of the old Texas Ranger that was asked if him carrying one like that was dangerous and his reply was "hell yeah, I wouldnt carry the SOB like that if it wasnt." it may be a dumb question or observation but it seems to be pretty common in most photo posts. Is there a reason for this? Even in the military we carried them without a round in the chamber til we got in the field.

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Quack
September 16, 2010, 07:42 PM
because that's how we (civilians) carry them, but i know where you are coming from...

FM 23-35
WAR DEPARTMENT
BASIC FIELD MANUAL
AUTOMATIC PISTOL
CALIBER .45
M1911 AND M1911A1

Page 18

l. In campaign, when early use of the pistol is not fore-
seen, it should be carried with a fully loaded magazine in
the socket, chamber empty, hammer down. When early use
of the pistol is probable, It should be carried loaded and
locked in the holster or hand. In campaign, extra maga-
zines should be carried fully loaded.
m. When the pistol is carried In the holster loaded,
cocked, and locked the butt should be rotated away from
the body when drawing the pistol In order to avoid displacing
the safety lock.

non2os13
September 16, 2010, 07:50 PM
that is one less step to go through if you needed it in a hurry.

BlayGlock
September 16, 2010, 08:22 PM
In photos? Because it looks cool.

Pro Tip: When carrying a 1911 for personal protection, Condition 1 is the quickest and safest way to get you pistol into action should you need to use it.

ScratchnDent
September 16, 2010, 09:43 PM
Mine only get decocked when I pull the trigger. Any time you manipulate a 1911 to either chamber a round or clear it, it gets cocked, and it just seems an unnecessary and potentially dangerous step to lower the hammer manually.

TexasPatriot.308
September 16, 2010, 10:01 PM
aint it more dangerous to have the hammer back? a lot of pistol owners are not trained or experienced in the safety aspects. seems like a good way to blow your toes off, shoot a hole in your groin or let a kid get a hold of it. I would rather be safe, take the time, sleeping with a cocked .45 next to your head, mix with a bad dream could be a mess.

REAPER4206969
September 16, 2010, 10:19 PM
aint it more dangerous to have the hammer back?
Yes, for your assailant. That's the point.

a lot of pistol owners are not trained or experienced in the safety aspects.
That's their problem. I, and others here are.

seems like a good way to blow your toes off, shoot a hole in your groin
Good. Stupid should hurt. However, there are many stories of people shooting themselves, stuff or others by lowing the hammer to C2 than simply carrying C&L.

I would rather be safe, take the time,
And in that time your attacker will kill you.

sleeping with a cocked .45 next to your head, mix with a bad dream could be a mess.
I've been doing it since I was 16. How is it any different from a Glock or Beretta or a revolver or any other firearm?

TexasPatriot.308
September 16, 2010, 10:24 PM
have you ever been in combat? had flashbacks, wake up with a cocked pistol in your hand and dont know how or why? I doubt it.

Lucky Derby
September 16, 2010, 10:26 PM
There are two safe ways to carry a loaded 1911.
1. Condition One. Loaded mag, loaded chamber, cocked hammer, safety on. This is the fastest way to safely carry a 1911.
2. Condition Three. Loaded mag, EMPTY chamber, hammer down, safety off.
This is slower to get the weapon into action and requires two hands, or an even slower one handed chambering technic, such as rear sight hooking your belt.
Never, ever carry a loaded 1911 with a cocked hammer and the safety off or with a loaded chamber and a decocked hammer.
The first one should be obvious, but with the second you are likely to slip when lowering the hammer and have a ND. It is also likely that something could hit the hammer while carring it and cause a ND.

I understand that the military usually carried the 1911 in condition three.

I however have never seen a LEO who was carrying either a 1911 or BHP carry it any way other than condition one.

mesinge2
September 16, 2010, 10:33 PM
It is also likely that something could hit the hammer while carring it and cause a ND.

Just to clarify I carry cocked-and-locked, but I thought this possibility was negated by a series 80 safety common on most factory new 1911s.

Correct me if I am wrong?

REAPER4206969
September 16, 2010, 10:38 PM
have you ever been in combat? had flashbacks, wake up with a cocked pistol in your hand and dont know how or why? I doubt it.
That's an issue that can not be solved on a firearms forum.

REAPER4206969
September 16, 2010, 10:40 PM
Correct me if I am wrong?
Drop safeties are to prevent firing when dropped on the muzzle. The M1911 uses an inertial firing pin, so you could beat on the hammer all you want and it will not fire.

cyclopsshooter
September 16, 2010, 10:47 PM
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/22.jpg
http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp233/wrc376/45.jpg

Zerodefect
September 16, 2010, 11:51 PM
My "cocked and Locked" 1911's are my safest pistols. Ironic, isn't it, that it gets such a scary rep?

forindooruseonly
September 17, 2010, 01:04 AM
have you ever been in combat? had flashbacks, wake up with a cocked pistol in your hand and dont know how or why? I doubt it.

Then the issue is not the gun, but the person suffering from PTSD. And in a flashback situation, I would expect the veteran to probably be able to manipulate whatever safeties and procedures to chamber a round and operate a gun. They were trained for it and relied upon that ability to survive.

MaterDei
September 17, 2010, 01:42 AM
Even in the military we carried them without a round in the chamber til we got in the field.

As a civilian, when I'm carrying I'm 'in the field'.

JTQ
September 17, 2010, 07:08 AM
I like safeties. You can't engage the safety on a 1911 unless the hammer is cocked.

mesinge2
September 17, 2010, 05:38 PM
you could beat on the hammer all you want and it will not fire.

That's what I thought

yeti
September 17, 2010, 06:43 PM
They look more like they are smiling if photographed cocked and locked.

gwnorth
September 17, 2010, 06:53 PM
aint it more dangerous to have the hammer back? a lot of pistol owners are not trained or experienced in the safety aspects. seems like a good way to blow your toes off, shoot a hole in your groin or let a kid get a hold of it. I would rather be safe, take the time, sleeping with a cocked .45 next to your head, mix with a bad dream could be a mess.

In your scenario, it would not make sense then to have any handgun actually loaded at hand then. Seriously, a 1911 loaded, chambered and safety on, versus waking up with a chambered Glock, or a decocked chambered DA/SA or a DA revolver would all be equally (or arguably more) dangerous. So you would have to keep any weapon separated from its ammunition to be safe under your described scenario.

And by the time you wake up, load the gun, chamber a round and are ready to defend yourself, the intruder who is already in your house has put you out of action.

The Lone Haranguer
September 17, 2010, 07:41 PM
"Cocked and locked" - also popularly known as "Condition One" per Jeff Cooper - is the most efficient and safest way to carry a 1911 on your person for self defense. You carried chamber empty in the military because they told you to. They also tell sentries to patrol with unloaded weapons. Military combat ROE is much different from civilian armed self defense.

Full Metal Jacket
September 17, 2010, 07:43 PM
have you ever been in combat? had flashbacks, wake up with a cocked pistol in your hand and dont know how or why? I doubt it.

:eek:

Snowdog
September 17, 2010, 08:19 PM
have you ever been in combat? had flashbacks, wake up with a cocked pistol in your hand and dont know how or why? I doubt it.

I've never been in combat, though I HAVE woken up with my nightstand pistol in my hand after a bizarre hypnagogic event many years ago. It's this precise reason I no longer keep a pistol within arm's reach when in bed. However, it's still within reach from the bed, just not from a laying position.

For what it's worth, the pistol was a Kahr K9 (still my carry pistol) that's DAO and kept chambered. I honestly think it would have been just as easy if not easier for my to have fired that pistol than a 1911 in a condition 1 as the K9 has no manual safety to disengage whereas the 1911 does.

gbran
September 17, 2010, 10:02 PM
The 1911 decocker is a gambler.

TexasPatriot.308
September 17, 2010, 10:30 PM
gw north and whoever, I am always ready for someone to come into my house, call it pranoia or experience, I will know when someone is trying to get in my house, I learned well how to fight, how to kill, how to know my enemy, and I will have plenty of time to chamber a round. I saw and have seen several pics of auto pistols with the hammer back and safety off. one was in guns and ammo last month, a Kimber I think. because of my political beliefs and membership in the Texas Minutemen, I am always a target and always ready, (by the way, dental floss is great for booby traps). hard to lecture a 57 year old Viet Nam combat vet on how to carry a 1911.

1911Tuner
September 18, 2010, 05:59 AM
The dead horse has once again been resurrected!

Browning didn't design the 1911 to be carried cocked and locked. It didn't even have a thumb safety until the US Army requested it. He did, however, intend for the half-cock to be a safety...which requires lowering the hammer manually.

Note that Browning names the half cock as a safety position, along with instruction on lowering the hammer to that position...with one hand...is described in the original patents.

Hammer down on an empty chamber is Condition 3...not Condition 2.

Manually decocking a 1911 safely is easily doable if one either takes the time to figure out how, or have someone who knows how to provide instruction. Exposed hammer guns have been decocked for many years without incident by many thousands of people. Why is it that it suddenly becomes so dangerous with a 1911 or Browning Hi-Power?

Yes...It does carry a certain risk. As with any other potentially risky exercise, it does require one's full attention and care in order to prevent injury. So does carving a turkey and driving a car. Lowering a hammer on a hot chamber isn't something that's normally done in a hurry. Learn how, and take your time...and keep the gun pointed away from your feet, your children, and your dog when you do it.

velobard
September 18, 2010, 09:58 AM
Even in the military we carried them without a round in the chamber til we got in the field.
When we CCW, we are in the field.

Chindo18Z
September 18, 2010, 01:26 PM
Why in most photos, are they shown obviously cocked with the hammer back?

I think it's because that means of carry is safe, simple, and (most importantly) very fast. Those design concepts come across nicely in photos accompanying 1911 stories. Most folks interested in 1911s are cognizant of the fact that Condition One is a common way to carry the piece. Not the only way, but in a photo, cocked-and-locked best shows the weapon optimized for business.

Face it...the 1911 is one of the very few handguns made where sight of a cocked hammer in a holster (or on a magazine cover) is not automatic cause for alarm among knowledgeable shooters. That's because the design is perfectly safe in that mode of readiness. Try splashing a cocked Colt SAA, Beretta 92, or Smith 686 on the cover of a gun magazine. You'd be pilloried by readership for depicting an accident waiting to happen. Not so with the 1911. Why? Because (almost) everyone knows that an extremely functional set of redundant safety features allow the hammer to be carried cocked and locked...with Baby Jesus' blessing.

Most folks who carry empty chamber are either needlessly nervous about the cocked and locked concept or are part of an organization whose leaders are nervous about that concept.

I regard a chamber-loaded Glock as a more significantly potential ND hazard than a cocked and locked 1911. That said, I find the Glock to be both well designed and perfectly safe to carry loaded...provided the user has benefited from a modicum of training and applies the basic rules of firearms safety. Those are exactly the same user attributes required to safely carry a loaded 1911.

Depicting a cocked and safetied 1911 in a photo merely showcases the weapon in its idealized natural state.

Hammer down on an empty chamber is fine too. Lots of folks successfully carry that way every day. You buys your ticket...you takes your chances.

Anywhoo...that's my $.02

swinokur
September 18, 2010, 10:17 PM
Note that Browning names the half cock as a safety position, along with instruction on lowering the hammer to that position...with one hand...is described in the original patents.

Tuner-question for you. I have read Brownings patent and see his mention of the safety position. I actually went and practiced it as he outlined and it works very well one handed as he directed. (Calvalry soldiers needed the other hand to control their horse) But a 1940 US Army MOA makes no mention of it. When did the half cock stop being documented as a safety? The 1940 MOA does specifically mention Condition 3 if no engagement is imminent but Condition 1 if engagement is anticipated.

Thanks for any info you can add.

nwilliams
September 18, 2010, 11:09 PM
When I carry a 1911 it is always cocked and locked. Do you really want to be fumbling to cock the hammer of your 1911 when you only have seconds (if that) to respond to an attack?

If you're worried that carrying a 1911 cocked and locked is dangerous then you shouldn't be carrying a 1911 to begin with.

REAPER4206969
September 18, 2010, 11:12 PM
Beretta 92
There are C&L capable versions of the 92.

Chindo18Z
September 19, 2010, 12:09 AM
REAPER4206969: There are C&L capable versions of the 92.

True. Double Action 1911 variants exist as well.

Neither represent mainstream production of 1911 or M92 design; both are relatively unknown except to enthusiasts. Low volume of production reduces them to mere novelties. The 92 is generally considered to be an SA/DA. The 1911 is generally considered to be an SA.

A cocked Beretta 92 depicted on a magazine cover would be considered pretty unusual.

REAPER4206969
September 19, 2010, 12:29 AM
Unless it's a Taurus.

~Boomslang~
September 19, 2010, 03:19 AM
This is really a matter of personal preference. When I am carrying my 1911 a round is chambered, but the hammer is down. There is a way to do this safely, and correctly. I've been lowering the hammer on chambered rounds longer than I can remember. There is nothing wrong with C&L If you are comfy with that combination. Shovels and Buckets make for great perimeter alarms as well Texas :)

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 07:46 AM
Tuner-question for you. I have read Brownings patent and see his mention of the safety position. I actually went and practiced it as he outlined and it works very well one handed as he directed. (Calvalry soldiers needed the other hand to control their horse) But a 1940 US Army MOA makes no mention of it. When did the half cock stop being documented as a safety? The 1940 MOA does specifically mention Condition 3 if no engagement is imminent but Condition 1 if engagement is anticipated.


The patents that described the half-cock as an at-the-ready safety position were from Februrary, 1910...before the addition of the thumb safety. Once that was added, using the half-cock as a safety was moot. It was faster, simpler, and safer to flick the manual safety on and wait for the fight to start. Thus, the half-cock notch was relegated to performing its other function of being a hammer arrestor in the event of a failed sear or hammer hooks. (The half-cock will stop the hammer, even with a full 1/8th inch of the sear crown missing.)

But, back to the half cock as a viable safety...for those who scream "NO! It's NO a safety!"

If we assume an original, captive notch...with the hammer in that position, the sear and hammer are interlocked. Pulling the trigger won't move the sear, and the hammer can't fall. Even the trigger won't move. The half-cock effectively disables the whole group. If that doesn't meet the requirements for a safety, I'd like to know what does.

Full Metal Jacket
September 19, 2010, 08:01 AM
Note that Browning names the half cock as a safety position

not originally, but after the cavalry requested a way to put it into action one handed while having the other hand on the reins, mosses designed the thumb safety so it could be carried cocked and locked.

i wouldn't advise anyone to decock a 1911 on a live round. that's asking for it....

Full Metal Jacket
September 19, 2010, 08:02 AM
REAPER4206969: There are C&L capable versions of the 92.

i haven't seen one of those heel mag release, single stack berettas in a while. they used to be cheap as dirt surplus guns some years back.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 08:31 AM
not originally, but after the cavalry requested a way to put it into action one handed while having the other hand on the reins, mosses designed the thumb safety so it could be carried cocked and locked.

Oh, yes...Originally.

Browning's first submission was the Model of 1910...8 of them...none which had a thumb safety. The US Cavalry requested it. The thumb safety wasn't Browning's idea. The thumb safety enabled the gun to be placed on-safe with a chambered round when the situation called for it..."Action Iminent"...not specifically to be carried in that condition. Protocol required the trooper to return the pistol to Condition 3 when the emergency ended.

swinokur
September 19, 2010, 08:40 AM
Once that was added, using the half-cock as a safety was moot.

when was the thumb safety added? was the patent updated?

i am assuming the thumb safety was there prior to the Army designating it as the M1911?

Full Metal Jacket
September 19, 2010, 08:56 AM
Browning's first submission was the Model of 1910...8 of them...none which had a thumb safety.

that's what i meant :)

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 08:56 AM
when was the thumb safety added?

In the spring of 1910, Browning submitted 8 pistols to the Army Ordnance Board for evaluation and testing. None of the pistols had a thumb safety. The "Slide Locking Manual Safety" was then requested. Six of them were retrofitted with thumb safeties and resubmitted. The modification was accepted, and the rest is history.

As with all of Browning's exposed hammer guns, the half-cock was...by design and intent...a safety position. That carried over to his design for the US Army.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 09:03 AM
Do you really want to be fumbling to cock the hammer of your 1911 when you only have seconds (if that) to respond to an attack

With a little practice, cocking the pistol on the draw can be surprisingly fast. Not as fast as flicking off the safety...but not lagging as far behind as you might think. It's actually cocked before the draw, as the hand finds the pistol, and it works very well.

When I carry a 1911, I normally carry cocked and locked. Back in my hikin'/campin/4-wheelin'/ boondockin' days...I carried in a full flap holster in Condition 2 in order to provide the internals with as much protection from the elements as possible while still allowing me to bring the gun into an emergency with one hand.

The Lone Haranguer
September 19, 2010, 09:16 AM
Cocking the hammer was probably a lot easier with the original design's short grip safety tang and large, checkered spurred hammer, instead of the beavertails and round hammers that are almost de rigueur on newer guns.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 09:36 AM
Cocking the hammer was probably a lot easier with the original design's short grip safety tang and large, checkered spurred hammer, instead of the beavertails and round hammers that are almost de rigueur on newer guns.

Oh yeah. No such thing as a free lunch. An "improvement" in one area usually means losing or compromising another.

And those silly ducktail thingies ain't de rigeur on any of mine. Even though I rarely carry in C-2 these days, I still want the option to be open...just like lanyard loops.

swinokur
September 19, 2010, 10:12 AM
was the patent and its accompanying diagrams updated after the addition for the thumb safety? After the addition did the Army MOA allow the hammer at half cock? The 1940 copy I found didn't mention it at all.

when was the feature of locking the trigger with no magazine inserted removed? it's in the 1910 patent.

Sorry to be a PIA but this stuff is fascinating.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 10:29 AM
After the addition did the Army MOA allow the hammer at half cock?

It was never authorized, as far as I know. Condition 1 when action was iminent or ongoing, and Condition 3 when the emergerncy had passed. I know that many soldiers in high-risk areas ignored the regs and did as they pleased...both as to cocked and locked and half-cocked...but officially it was as outlined in the field manuals.

when was the feature of locking the trigger with no magazine inserted removed

Not sure.

Sorry to be a PITA...

Not at all! It's good to address honest questions pertaining to the historical aspects.
So many myths and misconceptions surrounding the gun, that these points need to be clarified.

bigfatdave
September 19, 2010, 01:48 PM
Cocking the hammer was probably a lot easier with the original design's short grip safety tang and large, checkered spurred hammer, instead of the beavertails and round hammers that are almost de rigueur on newer guns. A non-spur hammer isn't that hard to get back, but with a big beavertail the concept of "cocking on the draw" just doesn't work. And I have a beavertail because of my big monster-hands, so if anyone's thumb would reach it would be mine.

I've tried it with snap-caps, and one-handed cocking or decocking is a gamble. Even two-handed decocking is an un-necessary risk as far as I'm concerned, the safety lever works just fine and I'm not going to have nothing but my sweaty/greasy thumb holding the hammer off of the FP/primer.

The thumb safety enabled the gun to be placed on-safe with a chambered round when the situation called for it..."Action Iminent"...not specifically to be carried in that condition. Protocol required the trooper to return the pistol to Condition 3 when the emergency ended. That is fascinating, and makes a lot of sense for a group of pepole working as a team.
I'll consider such a method the moment I have more than one person with me at all times backing me up, until then I'll carry in a safe method as if I might need my pistol as soon as possible.

jruss4879
September 19, 2010, 02:04 PM
The safest way to decock the 1911 without racking the slide to remove a chambered round is to put the weak hand thumb between the hammer and rear of the slide. Depress the trigger dropping the hammer onto your thumb and remove your finger from the trigger prior to moving the weak hand thumb from under the hammer.

xXxplosive
September 19, 2010, 02:08 PM
So who here would like to explain the proper method for decocking a 1911 with a round chambered before someone goes and tries it on their own..........?

This would be considered a valuable service and possibly save a member from a rude awakening.

Skylerbone
September 19, 2010, 02:15 PM
Tuner, since everyone else is asking you questions, might I bother you with a request? I've read many of your responses and heeded your advice as best I could, but I don't recall seeing pictures of any of your pistols. Would you oblidge with a photo or two of your carry and perhaps a description of particulars including why?

Thank-you for all of the information you provide, I'm always intrigued when I run across your posts.

Chindo18Z
September 19, 2010, 02:57 PM
As jruss4879 just described, one technique is to block the hammer's fall with your weak hand thumb.

However, release of the trigger too early will cause the hammer to stop at the half-cock notch (previously described by Tuner) whilst you attempt to get your thumb out of the way. Alternatively, keeping the trigger depressed will allow hammer to travel all the way forward, but you still need to get your thumb out of the way while gently bringing the hammer to full forward rest.

A slightly different technique I like to use is:

1. Point the cocked and locked weapon in a safe direction, finger off trigger.
2. Depress safety lever with firing hand thumb, finger still off of trigger.
3. Place firing hand thumb over the top of the hammer, firmly controlling and holding it in place.
4. "Pinch" the weapon with your non-firing index finger in front of trigger guard and weak hand thumb depressing grip safety.
5. Firmly controlling hammer drop with firing hand thumb, press the trigger and slowly lower the hammer to full rest.

I'm not 1911Tuner, but I was already going to post a photo in keeping with the original discussion topic...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=127860&stc=1&d=1284953262

EDITED TO ADD: I carry the above weapon 24/7 in Condition 1, either concealed or on my kit. OK...time off for sleep, but it's within reach. I completely disregard the concept of Condition 2 carry. I'm not willing to entertain the possibility (however remote) of a muzzle/hammer impact. IMHO, either carry cocked and locked or carry chamber empty. I see no useful purpose for hammer down on a live round (even with a Series '80 firing pin safety). I merely describe the technique for those interested.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 03:16 PM
The safest way to decock the 1911 without racking the slide to remove a chambered round is to put the weak hand thumb between the hammer and rear of the slide.


All that complex fumbling is awkward and counterproductive. The safest way is to use two hands via the overhand finger and thumb pinch method. Much easier and safer with the original wide spur hammer with its square corners, but not too much more difficult with the narrow spur type. Yet another example of losing something by tinkering with the original design.

For one-hand decocking, the pad of the thumb is placed far forward on the hammer, hooked over the top with the tip between the hammer face and the slide. Push the hammer past full cock...pull the trigger...then slowly lower the hammer.

The trick is to get control of the hammer before pulling the trigger. Trying to catch it after it gets free is a good way to have an unintentional discharge.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 03:24 PM
Tuner, since everyone else is asking you questions, might I bother you with a request? I've read many of your responses and heeded your advice as best I could, but I don't recall seeing pictures of any of your pistols.

This is one of my carry guns. It's a stock mid-80s production Springfield 1911A1, and is typical of the lot. Aside from switching to a flat mainspring housing, this is pretty much the way I roll...right down to the small thumb safety pad. One of my other carry guns is a stock 1943 USGI Colt that I tightened up a bit, and fitted with a Kart barrel and, of course...a flat housing.

Except for using King's drop-in grip safeties...which provide the same feel and spot weld of the originals, while eliminating the blistering...all my range beaters are set up the same way to keep it apples to apples. That way, if I have to reach for it in an emergency, it's like shaking hands with an old friend.


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/1911Tuner/Springer-R.jpg

Chindo18Z
September 19, 2010, 03:35 PM
1911Tuner: Nice Springfield. I used to have an identical one from the same production time period. Everything you needed and nothing you didn't. A really great and reliable 1911. Naturally...I sold it.

I completely agree with using stock (non-extended) thumb safeties. Extended safeties are a pain in the butt and always seem to want to wipe off when you aren't looking. Same thing in spades with regard to ambidexterous safeties. It's the one thing I'd change about the weapon I posted the picture of. Somebody else modded it for the unit; I just carry it.

BTW: I've enjoyed your posts over the years and learned a lot. Thanks.

1911Tuner
September 19, 2010, 03:54 PM
Chindo...why not just grind off the extended part and touch it up with cold blue?

Those old Springfields represented the best pistols that the company ever produced. They were all machined steel, right down to the grip safety, and even the triggers were milled from a single block of barstock. The one pictured isn't as nice now that I've been carrying it. The finish shows a lot of holster wear, but the gun is sound, accurate, and as reliable as an anvil. I also replaced the hammer because a hack trigger job left it with burst-fire capability which of course, the seller didn't advise me of. The hammer that resides in it now is a wide-spur type that I got from an old Argentine Sistema. The package is complete.

I like the small pad safety mainly because it offers a flat striking surface behind the pad so I can use the safety to push out the mainspring housing pin for a no-tool detail strip of the gun. And yet another example of compromising the function of a part by "improving" it.

The front of the slide with the bushing installed is the "hammer" used to tap it out. Not recommended with a cast or MIM safety, though. Machined steel with the proper fillet on the pin makes it doable. I know that the probability of my having to detail strip the gun without tools is low...but like the half-cock and the lanyard loop...I still want the option.

Skylerbone
September 19, 2010, 04:33 PM
Thank-you again, Tuner for the pic. It is as K.I.S.S. as I had imagined (and then some). It also shames me a bit when considering some of the pistols I've drooled over recently for what I know to be less practical reasons.

It does seem more difficult these days to find one made the way I want it, which is to say domestic, forged steel, blued (with something that does not resemble watercoloring) and an attention to fit. Any stock make/model come to mind? I had it in for an FN Belgium made HP a few months back until I saw it was a DA in 40 (drove 3+ hours to see that?! Ugh!) Put me right back on the 1911 hunt as my next got to own pistol.

Chindo18Z
September 20, 2010, 12:14 AM
1911Tuner: :) Most folks aren't aware that the original 1911/1911A1 can be detail stripped using only the tools provided by the parts themselves. It's a neat trick and a testament to JMB's design genius. Always a fun to watch the smile break out when someone does it for the first time.

I've thought about replacing the safety with a "drop-in", but I hate to mess with what works in the middle of a deployment. The pistol already runs without a stutter. I'm loath to change any part and then find that I have to tweak it. I simply don't have the time. Don't have access to a grinder either. Any source for a truly drop-in mil-spec safety?

Skylerbone: The US manufactured Model 1927 Colt Systemas (or any of the Argentine manufactured majority production) would deliver what you are looking for at a relatively low cost. Their downside is that, like the original Colts, they come with itty-bitty service sights (which can be changed). They were Colt licensed/engineered clones produced for the Argentine military & police forces. Initial production was by Colt in the USA followed by mass production at a Colt tooled plant established in Argentina. They are essentially Colt 1911A1s roll-stamped with Argentine government markings and a few minor profile/checkering differences on the hammer, main-spring housing, and safety .

I own a couple, and they are hard to beat for not much money. I'd put them up against any current 1911 made in terms of quality all-steel parts, strength, reliability, and combat accuracy. Not pretty, tiny GI sights, and no sculpted metal bling features...but absolutely functional and true to the original design.

And best carried in Condition 1. ;)

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