Grassroots Letter Writing vs. Political Action


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hso
September 11, 2010, 07:36 PM
We'll use this to move the sidebar on the TRU policy in Activism here to Activism Discussion.

I suggest everyone read the stickies on posting both in Activism and here in Activism Discussion.

If you enjoyed reading about "Grassroots Letter Writing vs. Political Action" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
snubbies
September 14, 2010, 08:59 PM
At last there is someone who realizes the folly of trying to buck a billion dollar company over something that is not illegal and well within their rights. Right on Point Guillermo

snubbies
September 15, 2010, 10:52 AM
http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9454

Some interesting conversation. Are we going to boycott churches???

snubbies
September 15, 2010, 08:50 PM
This all you can expect. Even writing to the CEO will only bring a response from a hirling. I have had this same experience when challenging government rules and regulations. I have read all postings. Your only chance is to get someone or entity to take up your cause. A newspaper, lawyer, recognized gun activist group, NRA for example.

hso
September 15, 2010, 08:59 PM
snubbies,

That's not the case. Just recently gun owners pressured Krogers and got them adopt a neutral policy. We had to try and make the pressure and our position clear, but they heard us and responded favorably.

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 08:19 AM
HSO

I don't know what you mean by a neutral policy but from all indications TRU is not interested in any compromise. How many letters or e-mails do you figure have been sent?? Good luck in your endeavors. I still favor a class action suit to let the courts decide. You should allow the forum members to protest with their dollars in financing a legal action. It would be interesting to see if a lawyer would take the case or at least advise on your chances of winning. Protesting via mail and e-mail is only a first step.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 16, 2010, 11:29 AM
I still favor a class action suit to let the courts decide.
On what grounds? What are the injuries and who would have standing?

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 12:18 PM
Based on the contension held by many on the forum TRU is violating the constitional right and protections of the 2nd amendment. You got my point???

StupidPopMediaReference
September 16, 2010, 12:23 PM
I'm with Jorg on this one. You can't really argue damages here. It's private property occupied by a privately owned company. They have the legal right to set these kinds of policies so long as they do not violate local, state, and/or federal law.

Granted, you could FILE the lawsuit no problem. The issue is that it would never make it to court. The only people who would benefit would be the lawyers who take the money form the forum members to file suit and the lawyers for TRU/BRU who will be able to bill a couple extra hours filing the inevitable dismissal.

I say that we keep on with the letters and e-mails and the boycott. I think it's important to also spread awareness as much as possible. Hit the other forums you frequent. Tell your friends, family, and coworkers of like mind.

StupidPopMediaReference
September 16, 2010, 12:28 PM
Based on the contension held by many on the forum TRU is violating the constitional right and protections of the 2nd amendment. You got my point???

But that's the thing, it's not a violation of the second amendment. They are simply stating that you are not allowed to bear arms on their property, which based on law and legal precedent is perfectly within their rights.

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 12:32 PM
You made my point exactly. There is no cause of action here. It is well within there rights to regulate the conduct of their business. Writing all the e-mails and letters will proably not change their policies and there is nothing that can be done to force them to change them. If they yeild to the flood of mail that is their option. I sincerely doubt this will occur but if it does BRAVO.

Guillermo
September 16, 2010, 12:39 PM
there is nothing that can be done to force them to change them

That is a defeatist attitude.

They did not get to be a national company by using bad business practices.

Showing them that they are losing money and raising their liability can quite possibly make them reconsider the policy.

Big Boy
September 16, 2010, 12:42 PM
He said FORCE. We can't force. We can show them the logical decision with the loss of money and liability and HOPE they are smart enough to make the correct decision.

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 12:47 PM
BIG BOY has the bottom line to this. I USED THE WORD FORCE. Maybe you can coerice or intimidate them to do it but the final decision is theirs

Guillermo
September 16, 2010, 12:54 PM
While that sentence was clearly suggesting that we are wasting our time you did say "force". It is true that we cannot "force" them to change their policy.

Personally I am happy that in the country formerly known as "America" that we cannot "force" them. The decision SHOULD be theirs.

We can appeal to logic, good business practice and a morality.

CHEVELLE427
September 16, 2010, 02:27 PM
nothing will change till they see a loss of money.

money is all they care about.

writing letters will work somewhat but take you $$$$$$$$$$$$$ else were will get there attention,
and passing the word around on them and also on any other no guns allowed store.

I WONT SHOP THERE ANY LONGER,

few hundred here and there will sooner or later make a difference, as long as we don't cave in.

MONEY TALKS

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 04:13 PM
Fiscal Year ending in January (2010) Domestic and Foreign Sales 13568 Million (13 billion 568 Million dollars). This was down 1.10% over 2009 fiscal year. This is reflected in the poor economy. It will be difficult to judge the effect of the boycott in these economic times. I believe sometime in the future TRU will stop responding to your correspondence. You will hurt them in the pocketbook but not enough to pressure them into changing their policy. TRU was scheduled to go public in May of 2010????

esquare
September 16, 2010, 04:22 PM
snubbies - if you want something to succeed, you need to have a little more faith. :-) Boycotts can and do work for large businesses. There isn't a CEO on the planet that doesn't feel something when he gets competitors receipts sent to him. This is in activism - if you don't support the cause, you don't have to post in the thread.

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 04:44 PM
I do support all reasonable protests. I don't think this boycott ha a snowballs chance of success. This is born out by the responces you are receiving. This started as a result of one forum member being asked to leave the TRU in Utah. This request was within the TRU's rights. I would rather see efforts made to push for CCW rights in those States (Illinois in particular) where those rights are denied. This cause would affect more 2nd AMendment advocates than the present issue. Nothing I have said will affect the outcome of your boycott. What I have said is my opinion. To have a meaningful discussion of a subject both sides must be presented. There were a few others who agree with me in some degree. Are you attempting to violate my 1st Amendment rights as a member of this Forum? My threads are not demeaning or confrontational. My business is selling snubnose revolvers so the more people that are allowed to CCW the better it is for my business.

esquare
September 16, 2010, 04:52 PM
Ha - THR is a private entity - here you have no 1st amendment rights. :-) See the irony?

All I'm saying is the if this particular activism doesn't suit you, why are you trying to railroad it instead of spending the time on activism you care about more (which, I do agree that IL needs CCW badly!)?

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 05:05 PM
As I said earlier you need someone or entity behind you such as Newsaper TV or the likes. Has anyone thought of directing your letter writing to one of these or your Representative in Congress, Senate , State legislatures or Local government???

Gouranga
September 16, 2010, 05:11 PM
snubbies these do work. There was a large supermarket chain in NC that reversed course based on a boycott. When we first passed the Concealed Carry Laws in NC, many opposed it by putting up signs in their windows immediately banning carry in their stores, including Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc.

Guess what, as a result of statewide boycotts NONE of those businesses post against carry in NC anymore.

It seems like David and Goliath but really it is not. WE have the power. The business needs to get cash to survive. TRU is hurting in this area especially. So they will change their minds, or they will see a significant impact on their bottom line in those states that permit open or concealed carry. Maybe that is something they will decide they can live with, maybe it isn't but I can tell you what, we do nothing and that is exactly what will change, nothing.

It is a fight worth fighting. The way I see it the guys who initially gave us the 2A, were 13 colonies up against England. So if they could fight that battle to give it to us, the least we can do is boycott a toy store who thinks their sacrifices were in error when it came to 2A,

Mags
September 16, 2010, 05:28 PM
To have a meaningful discussion of a subject both sides must be presented.Snubbies, this isn't the right forum for discussion. Open up your own thread in General Discussion if it means so much to you to derail this thread.

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 05:49 PM
I assumed the thread was posted to not only advise and recruit responders to the call to action but encourage a meaningful discussion. To be a meaningful cause it must stand up to scrutiny.

Mags
September 16, 2010, 05:51 PM
^^^ Nope read the rules for Activism, and the multiple moderator comments in this very thread.
From "Read this before posting" This is not the place to debate ideas. This the place to outline action to be taken.

snubbies
September 16, 2010, 07:03 PM
How can you decide the best course of action without debate?????

CHEVELLE427
September 16, 2010, 07:40 PM
i agree with guillermo.
im on a few other forms and some there would not last long enough to make a screen name here.:rolleyes:

i know i have got called on the carpet for things once or twice that wouldn't have even been noticed on the low roads.;)

i think toys r us are getting more publicity then they thought they would , and it might make a difference one day.:)

just from the ones here that said no more T-R-U for them has to add up to a few thousand $$ and the more the word gets out the more they will loose,
i know the one T-R-U here is just hanging on, :cool:
i alone have 3 children and 2 grand kids that wont be getting anything from T-R-U.
:mad:
one persons money wont make a difference but a few thousand people will.

i just cant get it through my head how anyone can think a sign will keep the bad guy with a gun out of the store, as some posted it is concealed so who is to know...:what:

you will :rolleyes:

tis is why we are law bidding subjects. it is also why we will set at a red light at 3am and nobody is coming in any direction, it is because we try to obide by the law.

now if that light stays red for longer then i think it should

ILL RUN IT!:D

hso
September 16, 2010, 11:45 PM
As we've pointed out repeatedly and as other members have pointed out repeatedly, Activism is for presenting plans of action on behalf of RKBA. Working together to refine and improve a plan is encouraged. Disagreement about the best refinements and improvements are inevitable. Naysaying and negativism denying that a plan has any merit is not working with other members to improve or refine a plan and is specifically prohibited in the repeatedly mentioned forum sticky.

If you don't like a given plan at all, start your own thread with your alternative and hope others help you refine or improve upon it.

No letter writing campaign is without merit. Grassroots pressure has been shown to be effective as recently as the Kroger thread. What is beneficial is widespread and broad based participation across the 2A community so that the frequency of contact with the company in question and the quantity of the pressure applied is large enough to be relevant to them. Help us get this message to as many different websites and groups and bloggers and media sources as possible so they too can help others tell TRU that their discriminatory practices are not appreciated and will cost them business.

Individually we might not be noticed, but each drop of rain followed by another makes a storm and when that force is channeled can make changes happen.

benEzra
September 17, 2010, 11:10 AM
A single person writing a letter to a corporation probably won't be listened to. A hundred thousand people writing letters to a corporation *will* be listened to, for good or for ill.

Hso brings up the example of Kroger. I'm going to bring up another one---Starbucks. The media last year put immense pressure on Starbucks to enact a no-CCW policy nationally (a media storm generated by the Brady Campaign), and in response gun owners and CHL holders sent a lot of well-reasoned letters to Starbucks letting them know how much of their clientele hold CHL's, how responsible we are, and why they should continue to allow CCW. Starbucks listened, and retained their policy allowing CCW. This could have easily gone the other way, and IMO almost certainly would have gone the other way had gun owners not weighed in.

Is a letter-writing campaign guaranteed to change a bad policy? No. Can a letter-writing campaign force a change in a bad policy, given sufficiently pig-headed support for said policy within the bureacracy? No. But can a letter writing campaign produce positive results in a significant number of cases? Most definitely yes.

If you enjoyed reading about "Grassroots Letter Writing vs. Political Action" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!