SBR and paperwork when not in SBR config


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9teenEleven
September 17, 2010, 08:46 PM
My tax stamp for my SBR just arrived today. It's an AR lower that currently has a 16" 6.8spc upper on it. I started my 5" 9mm build this evening, but was thinking about the paperwork issue as I did. I know that I now need to carry proof of NFA with me when I have the gun, but is that true when it's not in SBR configuration? I use the 6.8 upper for deer hunting is why I ask. Do I now need to carry the paperwork out into the field even though that upper is not SBR?

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jmorris
September 17, 2010, 09:22 PM
You don’t ever “have” to have it with you. It might keep you from having to go for a ride though.

jojo200517
September 17, 2010, 10:24 PM
Not to derail the thread, but if you were carrying the paperwork with you for the weapon, would you carry the original and chance loosing it or destroying it or would a photocopy work? Me thinks loosing the original would be a pain in the rear.

TexasRifleman
September 17, 2010, 11:32 PM
I never carry the original, just a photocopy. But, jmorris is right you don't technically have to have it with you since it's a tax form not a permit of any kind. But he's right too in that it can be used to defuse some situations if things go downhill.

As for the OPs question, it's the physical characteristics that make an SBR, not the tax stamp (unless you are selling) so if it has a 20 inch upper installed it's not at that moment an SBR in most cases.

strambo
September 18, 2010, 02:58 PM
In have a 1/2 size laminated copy stored in the pistol grip so it is always w/ the lower no matter the config.

GoingQuiet
September 18, 2010, 03:26 PM
When it is configured title 1, you can leave paperwork at home.

When it is configured title 2, I would keep papers handy.

If you read the forms - ONLY ATF officials can demand you produce papers. That still will not stop local LE who believe anything NFA is illegal from detaining you and making your life miserable.

RhinoDefense
September 18, 2010, 04:57 PM
Your receiver is the registered SBR. Your receiver will always be a SBR even with a 16" + barrel installed. Why? Because that's what the paperwork says.

9teenEleven
September 18, 2010, 07:44 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys. Besides being really excited after 4+ months of waiting, I just want to make sure I am in order. I think based on the advice in this thread I am going to scan the stamp which the ATF wrote the serial number onto and just have a print of that stuffed in the pistol grip at all times.

rjrivero
September 18, 2010, 09:56 PM
Your receiver is the registered SBR. Your receiver will always be a SBR even with a 16" + barrel installed. Why? Because that's what the paperwork says.

This is INCORRECT. GoingQuiet is right on the money. Read the last paragraph of this ATF letter. I had a very similar issue with taking my NFA Registered Lower into Michigan for 3 gun matches. I had to do some significant digging, including calling the ATF, Michigan State Police and Interweb searches, but the result is this: The SBR is an SBR when it's has a barrel less than 16" on it. When you put a long barrel on the lower, it's a Title 1 firearm but as long as you retain "control" over the SBR Upper, then it's serial number remains in the registry. When you have a 16" or longer barrel on it, you treat it like a Title 1 firearm.

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy346/ryknoll3/TransportingAnSBR-1.jpg
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy346/ryknoll3/ATFLetter-SBR.jpg

rjrivero
September 18, 2010, 10:04 PM
Not to derail the thread, but if you were carrying the paperwork with you for the weapon, would you carry the original and chance loosing it or destroying it or would a photocopy work? Me thinks loosing the original would be a pain in the rear.

I carry all my "important" stuff on my smart phone sim card. I called the ATF to ask if it would be okay to put a scan of the Form 1's and Form 4's in electronic format, and the specialist I talked to said it WOULD be okay, in her opinion, because if it were ever in question the LEO with doubt could call the ATF 24/7 365 and find out if the weapon was on the NFA Registry. I have written a letter to the ATF to get the opinion in writing.

jmorris
September 19, 2010, 10:35 AM
Just stick a sized photo copy in the stock or pistol grip and call it a day. FWIW I don’t swap my SBR lowers around after months of waiting + $200 tax. I just put another lower together for my no tax ar’s.

9teenEleven
September 19, 2010, 05:31 PM
jmorris, I certainly would if I hadn't broken the bank on all the best parts and trigger for the lower! Plus I only plan to use the 6.8 upper for hunting trips so the gun will live in SBR config 90% of the time.

GoingQuiet
September 19, 2010, 06:26 PM
I love it when people tell me I'm right on the internet. It makes me feel like I know what I'm doing!

tank mechanic
September 19, 2010, 06:34 PM
I started my 5" 9mm build this evening

That sounds like a very interesting build.

kimberkid
September 30, 2010, 09:01 AM
+1
I also keep a scan copy of it on line

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