Range Manners re: Brass Showers


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BrianB
September 19, 2010, 06:56 PM
Hey, at an outdoor range (plinking pit, not stalls) is it rude to shower the person to your right with your brass without even acknowledging?

I at least TRY to prevent by setting up a case (to my right) to deflect if somebody is within 8 feet or so. But on my last outing, I was getting RAINED on, with brass bouncing off of me and my guns on the bench. I didn't say anything, but should I have? Or is it just a "cost of doing business" at the range?

Thanks,
B

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jon86
September 19, 2010, 07:22 PM
This happens to me often. It does not bother me in the least. If it bothers you, simply wait to step up to the line until the guy to your left is reloading.

WardenWolf
September 19, 2010, 07:58 PM
It's VERY ill-mannered, particularly when the brass gets hot. If you've got a gun that does that, you should build your own ejector screen and take it with you to the range. It's very easy to build one out of a couple of laundry hamper kits, and it comes apart and takes practically no space. There's no reason or excuse to be "that guy" at the range.

EddieNFL
September 19, 2010, 08:53 PM
It's VERY ill-mannered, particularly when the brass gets hot. If you've got a gun that does that, you should build your own ejector screen and take it with you to the range. It's very easy to build one out of a couple of laundry hamper kits, and it comes apart and takes practically no space. There's no reason or excuse to be "that guy" at the range.
Avoid high power competition.

TIMC
September 19, 2010, 09:09 PM
I usually try to set up to not throw my brass all over the guy next to me but if someone comes up and sets down after I am already at a table and set up then the new shooter will just have to put up with it.
As a rule I do usually catch most of my brass in a net since I reload for most everything I have.

jkulysses
September 19, 2010, 09:13 PM
My Ruger P90 is bad about this it throws the brass out a good 6+ feet. I just always try and stay to the right of people or give them heads up and try to shoot around them. It's not their fault my gun launches mini hot rocks haha.

SharpsDressedMan
September 19, 2010, 09:33 PM
It is one of the true pleasure in life, to have your weapon dump hot brass on the shooter next to you. We all do it, we all expect it. It means we're all having a good time!

evan price
September 19, 2010, 09:53 PM
I usually set a bucket or something to catch it so I can take it home. If it falls in my gear, it's mine.

At the local public range there has been a rash of young hotties wearing halter tops. The range master scores based on the number of shell burns they leave with.

russ69
September 19, 2010, 10:09 PM
Yeah, I'm a highpower shooter, if it's not raining brass, it must be a cease fire! I don't want brass bouncing off my finely polished guns anymore than the next guy but if you are shooting near other people it's going to happen. If that bugs you, go to the range when nobody is there.

Thanx, Russ

offroaddiver
September 19, 2010, 10:15 PM
i always set up a $1 mosquito net whenever i'm shooting my ar or my semi-auto brass launchers. I've done the hot brass on side of shoe or back of shirt dance. I've never laughed so hard when i saw a man and wife combo where the wife was sitting in the car and had a 7.62 land in a sensitive area.

JohnKSa
September 19, 2010, 10:27 PM
It's just the cost of doing business. I don't make a point of trying to shower someone with brass, but there's not a lot that can be done about it. If you're shooting an autoloader it's going to throw brass--that's just the way things are.

Same goes for being on the receiving end. Autoloaders throw brass. I don't go to the range if I'm not prepared to deal with flying brass. A person might as well complain about all the loud noises at the range and how they distract a person from shooting. There are some things that are just part of shooting.

mokin
September 19, 2010, 11:10 PM
evan price, I want to shoot at your range.

On those rare occasions when there are that many people at the range I warn any shooter to my right if I think I may hit them with my brass. If it becomes a distraction for them I switch to another gun. But, I usually set up so I can easily collect my brass. There seems to be many like minded shooters where I shoot.

WardenWolf
September 19, 2010, 11:26 PM
It honestly amazes me how many people here have little or no regard for their fellow shooter at the range. I go out of my way to ensure people around me don't get hit by my shells. It's rarely an issue, since I primarily shoot AK's and they eject roughly 45 degrees forwards, but nobody likes hot shells raining down on them. Your FUN doesn't give you the right to ruin other people's fun. You have to be courteous.

chicharrones
September 20, 2010, 12:25 AM
I've grew up with and still expect brass coming my way, whether from a stranger or a friend. I do try to wear a ball cap and a closed collar shirt when going to the range. When I take women, I have them wear a closed collar shirt and tell them to wear running shoes.

I honestly never thought much about brass "showers" being rude. I just think it's normal, but then I don't sit next to anyone firing a full auto gun either. ;)

45Fan
September 20, 2010, 12:36 AM
It is an unavoidable part of being in a high power match (or qualifing in the military) but even then, I dont know many that try to dump brass down the guys neck to their right. The best way to avoid that is to shoot when you can have the range to yourself.

lookshigh123
September 20, 2010, 01:18 AM
That might be the best way.

bigfatdave
September 20, 2010, 01:37 AM
These things happen.

I take a Walther P.1 to rental ranges for this very reason, it throws brass left.

Ranges have flying brass, loud noises, smoke and other annoyances. You plan ahead for them (closed shirt, no sandals, billed cap, etc etc) and don't try to deliberately ping someone with your brass, what's the big deal here?

flor1
September 20, 2010, 07:29 AM
Found a way to end the problem of flying brass. Was at range gentlemen sets up right next to me with benches open farther down. Starts spraying brass all over me and bench when done starts to pick up brass then realizes that I've taken a pair of pliers and crushed the ends on everything that landed on me. Funny but then he decided to move.:neener:

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 20, 2010, 07:31 AM
I don't shoot at ranges where you're close enough to another shooter to hit them with brass.

doc2rn
September 20, 2010, 09:06 AM
Down at Cherry Creek they put up pieces of lock together rubber matting to shield people on the right. Funny thing was even after being totally incased their next complaint was I was shooting! You just cant please some people!

esquare
September 20, 2010, 09:10 AM
Would you accept people chucking rocks or other things on you? Unless you are in a competition (that's a different ball game) it's down right rude to shower someone with brass. If you can't manage to keep it to yourself, then it's your problem.

Plus, you're asking for trouble by doing that. All it takes is for you to get one down the shirt of a new shooter and have him/her do an accidental discharge through your leg.

Like everywhere else, respect your neighbor's space.

easyg
September 20, 2010, 10:24 AM
How many times have you been in traffic and could smell the exhaust from another vehicle?
It doesn't mean that the other drivers are rude or are jerks.
Exhaust is just part of the driving experience.

And brass raining down is just part of the shooting experience.
Dress accordingly or only patron ranges which have very few shooters and lots of personal space.

A shooter can no more control where his brass lands than a motorist can control where his exhaust drifts.


Easy

dirtymike1
September 20, 2010, 01:03 PM
My Saiga is a steel launcher and a half! Since the first range trip, I've had people ask me if I'm lobbing casings on purpose, but not even th eguy next to me, or him, or the third guy. I've hit people, without even knowing it, about 20 feet awat before, and it could have gone maybe another 6-8 feet from there. I always setup a net to try to stop the cases but with the arc this things throws them at, most times it seems to do little good. I'll need to figure out a high and curved net to build to stop this.

Off topic, but what would be concidered a normal distance to throw a case, if there is even such a thing. I've seem some guys shooting and the cases seem to barely fall out of the rifle, while my Saiga can lob a case 25+ feet most times.

Prion
September 20, 2010, 01:08 PM
A shooter can no more control where is brass lands than a motorist can control where his exhaust drifts.

That's a weak analogy.

I try to set up on the last bench to the left and I set-up a net to catch my brass. This prevents brass from landing on me and the guy next to me. If I'm being showered I move to the far right bench and my net to my left.

I also avoid busy times.

Now to work on my car's exhaust.

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 20, 2010, 01:39 PM
There is a FRAGO on my previous comment. I took a few carbine courses at a range with about 15 other people. It was close enough that I did get hit with brass when we were shooting. The first time, I ended up getting a lot of burns on my neck from brass falling down my shirt. From that point on, I just wore a bandanna around my neck. Sometimes brass is unavoidable.

SuperNaut
September 20, 2010, 01:51 PM
On my top ten range peeve scale with litter being #1, getting hit with brass rates about 11.

627PCFan
September 20, 2010, 02:17 PM
I think most people are cognizant of where their brass goes, however I did have 2 kids show up next to me 2 weeks ago with a ar-10 and one of those Barrett type brakes, yes on a AR-10, and proceed to pelt me with 308 brass and gas from the brake. They ignored the fact that I was agitated about this. Any brass that hit me or the table developed a crushed shoulder. Too bad, it looked like nice brass.

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 20, 2010, 02:21 PM
I think most people are cognizant of where their brass goes, however I did have 2 kids show up next to me 2 weeks ago with a ar-10 and one of those Barrett type brakes, yes on a AR-10, and proceed to pelt me with 308 brass and gas from the brake. They ignored the fact that I was agitated about this. Any brass that hit me or the table developed a crushed shoulder. Too bad, it looked like nice brass.

Were there other places to shoot? I only ask because yes, it would be rude if there were other places to shoot, but if not, that's just the way it goes. I already mentioned, I actually have been physically injured by someone else's hot brass. But it was unavoidable, so I didn't even say anything. Just took some extra precautions next time. If there are no more lanes or tables at a range, oh well. Semi auto guns eject brass. We all know this. If you shoot close to someone, brass might hit you. There's really no need to get upset about it if it's unavoidable.

And I certainly wouldn't damage someone else's property because of it.

ChCx2744
September 20, 2010, 03:00 PM
I personally don't mind if someone else's brass hits me or rolls my way as they shoot; it doesn't even happen that often. Usually the person either asks if they should move or they apologize if a shell hits me. I don't really mind it and I don't remember anytime anyone that has been rude about it. I haven't had a problem with MY brass hitting anyone ELSE, so I guess that's that. There was one time a casing hit me in the face...Guy apologized and I respected the use of eye protection even more. I also remember when a buddy of mine was shooting a SW 457 and a round landed inside my button-down, tucked in shirt LOL :(. Fresh casings could easily burn you upon contact.

When I go to the range, I go expecting to get dirty from lead and there are GOING TO BE shells everywhere. If a few shells hit me, well...It's a shooting range, that kind of stuff happens.

ny32182
September 20, 2010, 03:21 PM
If possible, I set up where there is no chance I could hit anyone, but if not, or if someone sets up to my right after I'm there, I'm not going to lose any sleep if they are getting hit by the occassional case.

Likewise, I acknowledge that getting hit by brass occasionally is a part of being at the range. If it looks like I'm really going to pelt someone on every shot or vice versa, I will offer or request to alternate shooting strings.

No need to get worked up over it or passive-aggressively destroy their brass.

Kwanger
September 20, 2010, 03:30 PM
I think I probably sit somewhere in the middle on this one. On the one hand, no-one should go to a range and then bitch about peoples rifles being too loud, or brass flying - that's shooting for you. If you can't stand a loud bang or the odd bit of brass hitting you, you didn't ought to be shooting for a hobby. But on the other, I expect some basic manners, consideration of others, and friendly banter from everyone too. Fortunately, the ranges I go to are full of similar minded kinds of people - it is very very rare you get a true dick turn up.

SharpsDressedMan
September 20, 2010, 03:48 PM
I guess there are two distinct schools of thought. As somebody mentioned, though, if we are going to let ourselves get offended by brass coming our way on occasion, do we also acommodate the guy with the suppressor on his gun asking us to please not shoot if our gun is going to make that loud noise? I think part of the problem is not enough of us have been exposed to having been in a high power match, or in the military. In both, shooters are on a line, they are using semi-autos, and each man to the right often gets struck with hot brass. If you grew up around such, or were subjected to it, you know what to do. You button your shirt at the top, arrange your hat so that it keeps them off your head, and you man-up and take it. It is learning to DISREGARD it that make you a considerate shooter, not complaining about it. Think of it this way: you have been accepted to an elite shooting school, with some of the worlds best shooters/instructors there to teach you. Are you going to go up to them and whine about the guy on your left's brass hitting you while you are shooting? Most professionals I know would laugh at you.

KodiakBeer
September 20, 2010, 03:56 PM
I don't mind brass, but I do mind lead shrapnel from Italian SAA clones. I've had blood drawn twice from somebody shooting one of those near me.

KBintheSLC
September 20, 2010, 04:03 PM
I don't mind brass, but I do mind lead shrapnel from Italian SAA clones. I've had blood drawn twice from somebody shooting one of those near me.

Ditto. Getting hit by brass is just part of the game. What I won't tolerate is someone shooting a crappy, poorly-timed revolver next to me. I have had blast fragments spray my eye by entering the side of my shooting glasses. Needless to say, I was more than a bit upset about it.

benEzra
September 20, 2010, 04:10 PM
It happens. Doing it to somebody else and not noticing (or pretending not to notice), and doing nothing to try to mitigate it, is quite rude, though. And beaning somebody with hot brass and then telling them to suck it up is ruder still.

If I ever go to the range with a semiauto and there's someone to my immediate right, I ask them to please let me know if I am pelting them with brass and I will try to reposition. And you know what? Everyone has been friendly and appreciated it, and has never gotten bent out of shape about the occasional brass that may land or roll their way. But if you move in like you own the range, bean someone on the head or neck or ding their rifle/scope repeatedly with hot brass, while projecting an "I don't care, get over it" attitude, then yes, you'll get resentment. Ditto for revolver side spitting and muzzle brake blast.

To revisit the car analogy...if your car smokes a bit and you can't help it, but you try to be courteous to people, that's way different from pulling out in front of that convertible or cyclist and flooring it.

chicharrones
September 20, 2010, 04:21 PM
That's a weak analogy.

Not if you go on a beautiful day and the range has all the shooting positions full with people waiting in line behind them. It might as well be like sitting in traffic.

That is why my favorite shooting days are in the middle of the week. I hate going on the weekends. :barf:

SharpsDressedMan
September 20, 2010, 04:43 PM
Of the people that resent and must complain about flying brass, how many have been in the Army or Marines, or have participated in formal high power shooting? I'd be interested to know if anyone has done their time on a formal high power rifle range that still has the "my space" philosophy. I think it is more of acclamation to the exercise of shooting these weapons (flying brass is part of the game) around others. Sure, if space permits, trading places or re-positioning in another way might change the direction of the brass, and I, too, would try, within reason. But semi-autos do what they do, and you can't change them too much. Nature of the beast.

mm1ut1
September 20, 2010, 05:48 PM
I wear wrap around shooting glasses ever since I caught a 22 case between my street glasses and the area just below my eye during the rapid fire section of a bullseye match. Those little suckers burn, too !
CZ 52 pistol has to be the champion brass thrower.

Average Joe
September 20, 2010, 06:07 PM
It happens, deal with it.

Full Metal Jacket
September 20, 2010, 06:33 PM
this annoys the crap out of me!

there is one indoor range kinda far from me, they have screen placed at the top of the each lane so it doesn't happen at that one. however, the one near my house doesn't have this so i try to ask for the lane against the wall (to the left of me) when shooting.

it's a simple fix at these indoor ranges, they should all put those screens at the top.

just to mention, i never say anything to the guy raining brass one me, it's not his fault. i'll simply ask the range to move me to another lane.

kinda unavoidable at outdoor ranges that don't have dividers. just a part of the hobby. i'm certainly not going home and crying in my pillow about it :eek:

jeepguy
September 20, 2010, 06:47 PM
i almost always try & watch that i don't do this, however i dont mind if brass hits me. i say almost becuse one time while i was shooting my mini 14 & didn't think about it, since i was all the way to the left of a 8 person shooting bench. i was standing just to the right of the last spot, while their were two other younger guys standing just past the last spot on the right. we had been talking a little earlier & it probably was a good thing. later i was sending some led downrange maybe 6 or 7rds & i didn't hear them shooting so i stopped looked and saw that they were about 6ft behind me & to my right laughing. thats when i figured out what had happend. so i apologized right away & they just laughed & said to not woory about it. i enjoyed talking with them over the course of 2hrs & asked if they wanted to shoot my mini 14. which they seemed to enjoy. now i try to get the spot they were in since it isn't possible to have anybody to my right. i only have to worry about this with my mini 14, since my other rifles are normal.

chicharrones
September 20, 2010, 07:03 PM
. . . since my other rifles are normal.

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/16.gif

EddieNFL
September 20, 2010, 07:25 PM
It honestly amazes me how many people here have little or no regard for their fellow shooter at the range.

I flunked sensitivity training.

I would rather dodge brass than shoot next to a .338 with a brake.

seasmoke
September 20, 2010, 07:39 PM
at the range.
It's very quiet:what:
The brass falls right next to you:what::what:
And your sure to make friends:neener:

jhansman
September 20, 2010, 07:54 PM
I won't shoot my Saiga .223 unless I can get the last lane at the range. That thing flings brass a good 10-12 ft., and I got tired of apologizing.

orionengnr
September 20, 2010, 10:38 PM
I always request the lane to the far right. That way I am not flinging my brass on someone else.
And any brass that comes my way from one, two, three or more positions away...if they don't come and claim it by the time I'm ready to go, then I sweep it up and take it home.

paperwork351
September 20, 2010, 11:33 PM
A guy six positions away (20 feet) told me I was throwing brass his way. He was shooting the same type of rifle and wasn't upset about it. I rigged a tall barrier and then the brass was hitting me.

Kurt_D
September 21, 2010, 12:02 AM
It really depends on the situtation. If it's busy, you take what you can get and I'm ok with some brass rain. I'll try to work with my neighbors to avoid it as much as possible. If I set up all the way on the left to avoid someone(s) already there, and you set up right next to me when there's plently of open benches; tough, eat it. If I get the far right bench as to keep from hitting anyone and you set up next to me and rain brass on me when there's other open benches; I'll say something. If you don't move or try to work out timing, I will move to your left and return the favor OR open up with my pistol AR or equally extra loud firearm. This works most of the time b/c the people only bring ear plugs and you can feel the blast from those things.

ROGER4314
September 21, 2010, 12:42 AM
I'm a high power rifle competitor and consider that brass shower part of the game. For a long time, I shot M1 Garands in matches and was very careful to warn people on my right about the red hot "quarter pounders" coming out of my rifle. I few times in prone, I caught red hots in the leg and butt from other Garands. It teaches you to concentrate on the match even if your butt is on fire and it's a great conversation topic after the match!

Flash

Fishslayer
September 21, 2010, 03:40 AM
I don't mind a brass shower if it's .45ACP brass... :D

rfurtkamp
September 21, 2010, 07:37 AM
My favorite are the guys who insist on taking the far right position on the line, then complain about the brass after I suggested we switch places.

It is for days like this that the HK-51 clone is a godsend in terms of blast, concussion, and brass-chucking.

herkyguy
September 21, 2010, 08:16 AM
if the guy is hitting his target, i don't mind brass at all. if it's some kid with daddy's AR who just wants to re-create his last Call Of Duty session from his computer and can't hit a thing to save his life, i usually move lanes.

myrdraal0
September 21, 2010, 09:46 AM
Great! It looks like this is one more thing to worry about at the range...

In all honesty, I do pay attention to my brass ejection to an extent. I'm not overly paranoid about it, but I don't want to rain people with a constant shower either. Luckily, I generally have a shooting bay to myself; but, when I don't, I just try to setup to the right of other shooters or give enough space that my brass doesn't cause an issue. I've never tried to setup a net or anything like that.

On a related note, I was shooting last week and a guy came and setup about 3' to my right (even though there were about 15' of empty space on the line). In that case there were also 4 completely empty bays, but he just wanted to be there for some reason (even after I mentioned the empty bays). I guess he's one of those people who enjoys the experience of hot brass raining down. :confused:

CraigC
September 21, 2010, 09:51 AM
It is rude. You are responsible for where your brass goes, period. Personally, I don't care about the shower on me but I do not want YOUR brass bouncing off MY expensive guns. I don't do it to anybody else and I expect the same in return. I use a pistol case to deflect cases from my .22's and a brasscatcher on my AR. Everything else is ejected slowly and gets caught in hand.

Hatterasguy
September 21, 2010, 03:00 PM
Most of my guns eject forward but for the ones that spit sideways I always try to work with the guy next to me. One of us will move a bit so he isn't getting a brass shower.

MrOldLude
September 21, 2010, 04:44 PM
I fire all my guns ghetto-sideways, so the brass launches straight up or down.

Stevie-Ray
September 21, 2010, 06:30 PM
When at an indoor range, it's a non-starter due to the partitions. When it does happen on occasion, nobody complains. However, when I'm at an outdoor range, I try to set up at the far right, which is usually not a problem. Once I walked into my favorite outdoor place and somebody walking in right in front of me grabbed the far right lane. I advised them to switch with me, as they were shooting bolt guns and revolvers and I was shooting all autos. One guy said, "Whoa!" and with a knowing wink, grabbed his stuff off the far lane, post-haste.:D

It's not so much the .45 ACP that I worry about as it's low pressure fired brass is practically cooled off by the time it hits you. 10mm on the other hand is brutal to anybody it comes in contact with. I really don't recommend open collars.;)

ColdDeadHand
September 21, 2010, 06:46 PM
Just stay away from low-cut blouses when you go for a range day and it won't bother you so much.

;-)

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 21, 2010, 07:24 PM
Just stay away from low-cut blouses when you go for a range day and it won't bother you so much.

I don't know how to stay away from low-cut blouses.





OHHH you meant for us to wear...yeah that won't be a problem lol

KodiakBeer
September 21, 2010, 08:12 PM
Does anybody else have the same problem with Italian revolver clones spitting lead shavings and unburnt power out of the cylinder gap? I confess I don't see a lot of these because we don't have any cowboy action groups on my Island. But, the ones I've been around all seem to spit lead and unburnt powder laterally. I never see the same issue with American made revolvers. Do these Italians just have bad timing or narrow forcing cones?

It's kind of scary...

o Unforgiven o
September 21, 2010, 11:14 PM
My primary range is in my backyard, but if out of town with family usually we go to a range. Indoor with a partition there are no showers to speak of, if it is outdoors and unavoidable be kind with your neighbors and try to work it out. Not a big deal really, just part of shooting and no reason to fuss.

bigfatdave
September 21, 2010, 11:21 PM
Italian revolver clones spitting lead shavings and unburnt power out of the cylinder gap?I'm no revolver expert, but that sounds like a timing issue, not an Italian thing.
Or perhaps Ronnie Reloader needs to use in-spec components.

msb45
September 21, 2010, 11:27 PM
I either stay away a good distance or shoot at a range with dividers. Once at the range with dividers someone said my gun was "too far" out and was throwing brass. I agree with spray comments but I think people don't get the firing line concept. If you stay behind it most problems are solved. An occasional case is a non-issue for me. If I'm training for self defense a case should be a non-issue. If you can't handle that REAL incoming rounds are really going to be a problem.

bigfatdave
September 21, 2010, 11:36 PM
If you can't handle that REAL incoming rounds are really going to be a problem.

Good point. Perhaps you should take advantage of the annoying noises and hot brass to develop some focus skills, it might help you "not panic" the day it matters.

CraigC
September 22, 2010, 10:32 AM
I'm no revolver expert, but that sounds like a timing issue, not an Italian thing.
That's an alignment issue, not a timing issue.

SharpsDressedMan
September 22, 2010, 11:32 AM
#63 and #64 cover an important point. Hot brass is just one of a bunch of things that people concerned with self defense with a weapon ought to learn to ignore. A lot of people flinch because of the noise/gunshot; they have THAT to overcome. Brass from another weapon is not the ONLY hot brass you MIGHT encounter....you could get hot brass from your own weapon if standing next to a wall, etc. Learn to deal with it. To be fair, not all shooters at the range will be there to practice SD or even be interested in SD. The non "tactical" people ought to be tolerant of the fact that shooting is a MARTIAL art, and the endeavor of flinging hot lead, and hot brass, is always present, and that we do not live in a clinical world that we can control all side effects of such a martial art. I vote that we all EXPECT to be recipients of flying brass when near a semi-auto shooter at a range, and plot ourselves accordingly. Abstinence from shooting until we find a good brass-less spot, trading places, shooting on another day or a slower time (when one can have it one's way), etc. Even though I am extremely tolerant of others on this subject, I still like an empty range so that I can relax or push myself, depending on what type of shooting I want to do, without the interference of others. It doesn't always happen, but that is life.

Hatterasguy
September 22, 2010, 11:45 AM
I don't know about you but having a hot 5.56 round fall down my shirt is hard to ignore, damn that stuff is hot!:what:

What separates a good shooter from an amateur is when you get a hot round on your skin how you react. Anyone with experience slowly puts the gun down keeping the muzzle down range. Than removes the round as it cooks there skin. I have seen new shooters forget they have a gun and just swing their arms around covering people with their muzzles, finger on the trigger.:what:

This is why I don't like shooting with new shooters unless I'm watching them. I was on the business end of a 92FS once when a first time shooter got nailed with an ejected case in their lip, I don't plan on being in that position again.

CHALK22
September 22, 2010, 11:57 AM
My solution is to spread out and take a line with 2-3 open lanes to the right. My AR pitches the brass forward into the lane, which at least saves them there, and if I am really good, I can position my range bag to catch most of the 9mm brass, actually work preetty good, if you stay in the same spot. my .45s usually go over my shoulder/head and into the dirt behind me. Other than that, you are at a shooting range, deal with it.

I was at a class this weekend, and got hit in the left cheek twice (yes, I was wearing my eye pro.!)by some freshly hot .45s. It definitly screws up your sight picture! I scooted over, as I am sure the guy had no idea what he was doing(brass-wise), and I was fine. Then I policed up his brass for him, and took it home!

rtpzwms
September 22, 2010, 12:05 PM
GEEZ if it bothers you that much buy two of these (http://www.bubca.com/). Put one on your left and one on your right. I'm sure you don't want to be rude either. LOL And just tell the person to your left it it makes it to your can its yours! If that bothers him SELL the one on your left to him for a profit and buy another....yea that'll learn him...:neener:

SharpsDressedMan
September 22, 2010, 12:49 PM
Yeah, it would be rude to "burn" the guy on your right, and then ask for your brass back.:evil:

CraigC
September 22, 2010, 05:17 PM
I find it interesting how so many shooters basically respond with "TS", requiring their fellow shooters to live with THEIR choice in firearm, THEIR flying brass and THEIR lack of consideration for others. Not everybody is at the range to prepare for war and it makes it extremely difficult for some folks to enjoy their range time with hot brass or steel cases bouncing off them and their expensive guns. Sad part is that most of those folks would rather cut their time short and leave than speak up.

SharpsDressedMan
September 22, 2010, 05:47 PM
As I said before, CraigC, can you relate to having participated in high power shooting, or a military rifle range? The attitude that you interpret as "TS" is one of hard corps rifle shooting basics by professionals....is there any reason to expect less from a civilian range, or should we expect civilian shooters to not be so thin skinned? Back to the beginning, there are two schools of thought, those that acknowledge the occurance of flying, hot brass as par for the course, and those that don't like it and wish it would go away. In a perfect world, we'd all sit down and discuss how to arbitrate this at each conflict, but in the real world, we'll all just go on with our opinions, occasionally making allowances for each other. I still believe that those who have participated in the military or HP shooting kind of "get it", and those that have zero tolerance, don't. But that is just my OPINION. Doesn't mean crap to those who disagree............

FuzzyBunny
September 22, 2010, 07:52 PM
Well I know a gentleman that had a round fired next to gim at the range.
Yhe spent case hit a primer of a pack of ammo by buddy opened and it went off. Trip to the hospital and a surgery later he will be all right we think.

Very odd freak thing. I would not believe it if I did not know him and see the pics and the blood at the range. It was a .40 cal round primer it hit.

SharpsDressedMan
September 22, 2010, 10:13 PM
I dumped an empty mag from my .45 and it struck the primer of a .45 round in the box on the ground in front of me, setting it off. The bullet lodged in the bottom of the plastic 50rd box (MTM). Don't know where the case launched to. I was all alone, and my hot brass was nowhere around.........so, I guess that can happen many different ways. Best to keep a lid on it (literally).

Guy de Loimbard
September 23, 2010, 12:04 AM
Getting rained on with brass? What is needed for this situation is an AK-47 that ejects to the left. That'd show 'em.

KodiakBeer
September 23, 2010, 01:23 AM
I find it interesting how so many shooters basically respond with "TS", requiring their fellow shooters to live with THEIR choice in firearm, THEIR flying brass and THEIR lack of consideration for others.

Let's reverse that and question whether it's appropriate for people to complain about what firearms other people should own. It's just a fact that firearms eject to the right, some more forcefully than others. Why not just accept that? If you're shooting a bolt action or a revolver and the semi shooter on your left bothers you, then ask the person to swap spots with you. Any considerate person would do that and if they didn't you'd then have an actual reason to call them inconsiderate.

Bovice
September 23, 2010, 01:50 AM
I get hit with brass all the time, and I don't cry about it on THR.

Bullnettles
September 23, 2010, 02:04 AM
I would have to agree with the TS argument. If you go to a range, be prepared, and I don't mean prepared to whine. Wear the proper attire THAT THE OTHER GUY IS PROBABLY IN and you won't have a problem. If you do, move and quite whining. This is sad it's an actual argument. I'll been burnt, but you know what? I dealt with it. Grow up people.

frankge
September 23, 2010, 08:45 AM
don't know about brass but my AK throws steel like a pitchers fastball - I do use a screen unless there is someone obnoxious or unsafe next to me :p

CraigC
September 23, 2010, 11:13 AM
Let's reverse that and question whether it's appropriate for people to complain about what firearms other people should own. It's just a fact that firearms eject to the right, some more forcefully than others.
I really don't care what other people own. I just care about where their brass lands. If it bounces of my head, I don't care. If it bounces off my $1500 custom Ruger, I have a problem. I'm not "whining", I'm talking about a stranger DAMAGING MY PROPERTY.


I still believe that those who have participated in the military or HP shooting kind of "get it", and those that have zero tolerance, don't.
Nope, I wouldn't expect somebody shooting in that setting to care. If I was shooting guns that either didn't belong to me, or those that had already seen military use, I wouldn't care either. In the real world, folks work hard for the money they spend on their guns and don't particularly care for some idiot throwing brass all over the place putting dents and dings in their property. I don't. As an example, I have a very lovely custom Ruger .44Spl that has a perfect little half crescent shaped indention in the cylinder flute from someone else's flying case.

How do I handle such situations? I don't set up directly to the right of anyone shooting an automatic. If I'm shooting and one shows up next to me, I either ask him to move to another position or I move. Luckily, these days I shoot on my own property so I don't have to endure inconsiderate people.

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 23, 2010, 12:02 PM
Whether it pisses you off or not, each one of us found out the first day we ever shot a semi-auto that brass can be tossed a few yards. No one is walking into this with their eyes closed. You show up to a range where you can't get far enough away from someone else? Go home. Or stay and deal with the brass.

KodiakBeer
September 23, 2010, 12:21 PM
If it bounces off my $1500 custom Ruger, I have a problem.

"Hey buddy, your brass is landing on my $1500 Ruger - could we switch spots so I'm on your left?"

Problem solved.

CraigC
September 23, 2010, 02:45 PM
Problem solved.
Try reading the whole post next time.

Problem solved, for real.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1541/Product/AR_15_M16_BRASS_SAVR_BRASS_CATCHER

For all you "TS" guys who don't seem to understand where I'm coming from, anytime you wanna go to the range let me know. You can buy a new car or truck and I'll buy a new rifle. We can get setup to shoot, I'll lay my rifle across sand bags to your right. You can shoot for two hours, slinging brass all over my new rifle and I'll be in the parking lot throwing rocks at your brand new vehicle.....for a little perspective.

9MMare
September 23, 2010, 03:35 PM
I've only shot at 2 ranges, mostly at an indoor urban one.

In my experience, not that many other shooters 'shower' brass sideways. Those that do, I dont find it hard to time my shooting bouts in between theirs. We all have to reload, examine our targets, re-think our positions, etc. Mostly we just grin to each other and I usually get the same courtesy (in timing) from the other party.

I also find it an opening to meet other shooters, learn about their guns, etc. Of course, I'm still fairly new to shooting.

Flobert
September 23, 2010, 03:40 PM
Hi new member here and: Wear a tight collar and you won't get hot under the collar!

9MMare
September 23, 2010, 03:45 PM
I personally don't mind if someone else's brass hits me or rolls my way as they shoot; it doesn't even happen that often. Usually the person either asks if they should move or they apologize if a shell hits me. I don't really mind it and I don't remember anytime anyone that has been rude about it. I haven't had a problem with MY brass hitting anyone ELSE, so I guess that's that. .

Same here.

And I'm pretty sure my brass bothers no one but me. Unfortunately, my 9mm often sends brass straight back in my face. It was distracting during IDPA practice, but I've learned to expect and ignore it.

9MMare
September 23, 2010, 04:06 PM
As I said before, CraigC, can you relate to having participated in high power shooting, or a military rifle range? The attitude that you interpret as "TS" is one of hard corps rifle shooting basics by professionals....is there any reason to expect less from a civilian range, or should we expect civilian shooters to not be so thin skinned? ..

If we are hoping to introduce more new shooters in America, and bring our families, including young people, to shoot, I think a little courtesy is worthwhile, as well as giving the new shooters a positive experience.

I'm pretty sure almost none have participated in what you mentioned...nor should that be a criteria for anyone to relate to when starting or participating in shooting, IMO.

Once hooked, hopefully they'll be willing to take the good with the bad. And maybe develop that 'thick skin.'

Dookie
September 23, 2010, 04:37 PM
I have a very lovely custom Ruger .44Spl that has a perfect little half crescent shaped indention in the cylinder flute from someone else's flying case.
This is a question, not being a smart ass, to much. I am trying to figure out in my mind how hard or fast a flying case would have to hit a hardened steel to actually indent it. If it was brass I don't see it happening, steel, maybe. But if it happened, and I have zero reason to doubt you, it almost sounds like the cylinder has soft steel.

SharpsDressedMan
September 23, 2010, 05:18 PM
Some folks would have us believe that showering brass is intentional and/or avoidable. It isn't. Some guns just throw brass. If you bring a high dollar gun (I'm sorry, your $1500 Ruger may not approach some of the $2000 plus high power rifles used by the best in the country for HP matches, and those guys will "sacrifice" -expose them to brass hits- their guns to be able to be on the line and shoot), and you are worried about external dings, better plan accordingly. If you air your complaint to the range owner/operator on most ranges, or, as I said, the professionals who shoot in national matches etc, they will probably tell you that sometimes "brass happens". As I said, you don't ever have to AGREE with the concept of allowing for "brass showers", but, by and large, the people who shoot more than you do don't have a problem with it. You MAY have a problem with that.

Ragnar Danneskjold
September 23, 2010, 05:28 PM
You got into a sport you know can be dangerous to equipment and even your body. If the risks aren't worth it, you can always take up chess. You knew this from day one. You saw brass being thrown from pistols and rifles your first day you shot with other people. You could have backed out. You could go to a range where there aren't many people. You could go to the range at a time of the day there aren't many people.

If you choose to go to a range where there are a lot of people shooting semi-autos, you accept the risks. There are other sports for you to drop $2K into without risking your toys or feelings getting hurt. To me, even getting physically burned isn't even worth whining about, since I knew it could happen going in, and the fun of shooting is more than worth it. I have probably $2,500 in my AR-15. I know others have a lot more. But running through the sand, shooting, crawling, getting dusty, dirty, scratched, burned, and sweaty is worth it. That's what the weapons are for.

Again, if you expect the shooting sports to be more akin to golf, perhaps you should take up golf. Or at least find a range and a time of day you can be extra careful about your toys. The rest of us are here to shoot, and we know what it entails.

SharpsDressedMan
September 23, 2010, 05:34 PM
9mmare, I have trained a lot of "newbies" in concealed weapons cert classes, where you get zero experienced shooters along with master class pistol shooters. It it part of the "experience" to get them acquainted with handling a pistol, and sharing the range line with maybe 20 other shooters. Revolvers, semi-autos, showering brass, people screwing up and sweeping others, etc, we have it all. Brass occasionally hitting a shooter to the side is not uncommon. We do not stop the exercise to make sure no one gets hit with a MOSTLY harmless piece of brass. We do advise that anyone having a PROBLEM with it step back and wait to shoot when the person whose brass is pelting them finishes. To all, remember this, you are on a shooting range, on a shooting line, and others besides YOU are shooting. You have got to KNOW that some guns EJECT THEIR BRASS and that ranges are not going to STOP ejecting brass, or those shooting guns that do. IT IS PART OF SHOOTING, and part of shooting on a range you share with others. Granted, some guns are more gressive than others in this regard, and if it is abnormal, or extremely offensive, then reasonable people should be able to come to reasonable terms for helping or fixing the "problem". But to expect to be able to cause a cease and desist all the time over a flying brass is also unreasonable, based on the nature of the weapons and common shooting ettiquette by current PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS.

9MMare
September 23, 2010, 05:54 PM
But to expect to be able to cause a cease and desist all the time over a flying brass is also unreasonable, based on the nature of the weapons and common shooting ettiquette by current PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS.

I never even implied such a thing. Your comments seem a bit extreme.

My comments were regarding this:

As I said before, CraigC, can you relate to having participated in high power shooting, or a military rifle range? The attitude that you interpret as "TS" is one of hard corps rifle shooting basics by professionals....is there any reason to expect less from a civilian range, or should we expect civilian shooters to not be so thin skinned? ...


I dont see how such criteria would or could be related to by people just learning...who may not even have been exposed to a gun before or heard one shot in person.

springmom
September 23, 2010, 07:13 PM
Well. Yeah, if I'm getting pelted with every single bloody piece of brass, it's going to cramp my style. At that point, the thing to do is to talk to the other guy (often my husband, ROTFL) and say, hey, let's alternate; you shoot a mag, I shoot a mag. Nobody (even my husband! :neener:) has ever refused. People will usually do the right thing, if given the opportunity without being insulted or threatened.

Jan

russ69
September 23, 2010, 11:38 PM
In the legal sense, let's talk about property/personal damage. I think a judge would conclude that there is a reasonable expectation that some brass might be ejected onto a person or a persons property when shooting at a range. Because this expectation exists, all people at the range have assumed the risk that some damage/injury could occur. It's no different than a foul ball at a baseball game.
In other words, you have to protect your own property or person to insure safety for yourself. It's your responsibility, not the other shooters. Would it be the other persons responsibility if their guns were too loud or their bullet jackets bounced off the backstop? No, that is the risk you assume.

Thanx, Russ

JohnKSa
September 24, 2010, 12:02 AM
You can shoot for two hours, slinging brass all over my new rifle and I'll be in the parking lot throwing rocks at your brand new vehicle.....for a little perspective.That's not any kind of reasonable perspective.

What is happening to the rifle is something that happens inadvertently at every range in the country and that is an expected issue that one must deal with if they choose to shoot at a public range. No one is intentionally damaging the rifle, brass flies at the range and if a person goes to a range expecting that he can escape ever being hit by brass or if a person takes a rifle to a range expecting that he can keep it from ever being hit by brass he will be disappointed because his expectations are unrealistic.

The best a person could do would be to never set up to shoot except on the far left of the line. If a person sets up anywhere else then he can expect that some brass will come his way from time to time. A person who can't tolerate that prospect shouldn't shoot at a public range.

What is happening to the car is vandalism. Someone is intentionally damaging property. One does not park a car and expect that it will be pelted with rocks nor is a car being pelted with rocks a normal issue that one expects to deal with in the parking lot of a shooting range. It's not even roughly comparable to accidental damage to a firearm due to flying brass.

At shooting ranges there are loud noises and there is flying brass. It is unreasonable for a person to go to a shooting range and complain about noises and flying brass. It is even more unreasonable to go to a shooting range and get irate at other shooters because their guns make noise and throw brass.

I try not to shower other shooters with brass but sometimes my brass will land on the shooter next to me just as the brass from the shooter near me will land on me. It isn't fun, but it's part of the cost of shooting at a public range--it's CERTAINLY not equivalent to intentionally damaging another person's property.

msb45
September 24, 2010, 12:42 AM
To be clear I'm not in the TS camp. But out of 200 rounds I may find a half dozen cases in my shooting stall. It happens.

To me the situation is a combination of mixing long guns and handguns along with people not shooting "over the line". With all hand guns if you project your weapon over the line brass will generally fly across the shooters in line and not into the shooter. Standing back will put it INTO the shooter. Standing in the right place is my act of courtesy to avoid the issue. It is also a matter of safety. The firing line should be strictly maintained to also avoid muzzle sweep. TEACH this to all new shooters!

With mixed long and hand guns the ejection port is closer to the adjacent shooter. Thats where distance and line position make a bigger difference.

As for practice I'm not playing GI Joe or Rambo. I'm doing normal defensive pistol shooting. I realize there may be bench rest shooters, hunter's sighting in, or plinkers. Let's not get into whose Kung Fu is more powerful. We need to band together against anti-gunners, not give them fodder.

Bluehawk
September 24, 2010, 01:37 AM
SharpDressed..
I was in the Army...I don't recall ever being pelted by brass during qualification with the 1911A1..the M14 or the M16...were we in different countrys' services??
The only time I ever was pelted was M60 MG practice and only because we were lying so close to each other on that one particular day...and my loader to the left was getting the bulk of it!
It's common courtesy to know where your brass is landing if you have someone in it's path and to ask to switch places if it appears to be a problem. Folks with the TS attitude most likely have the same feelings for others when away from the range and are not worth knowing.

bigfatdave
September 24, 2010, 03:03 AM
The best a person could do would be to never set up to shoot except on the far left of the line.I have a gun that throws to the left

KodiakBeer
September 24, 2010, 12:16 PM
I hate it when somebody stands in the place I want my brass to land. It's just poor manners...

thorazine
September 24, 2010, 05:23 PM
It's VERY ill-mannered, particularly when the brass gets hot.

This reminds me of the one time I was told by a gray hair that my guns were "too loud".

Brass showers and big bangs are just part of shooting.


Golf is an option if you don't like it. =P

Bovice
September 24, 2010, 05:34 PM
I second the last post. Go play golf and whine about divots at the tee box. People will actually listen to that frivolous noise.

Bluehawk
September 29, 2010, 11:10 PM
Go play golf and whine about divots at the tee box. People will actually listen to that frivolous noise.

Another inconsiderate and ill-mannered one heard from!!!!!!

Blue Line
September 30, 2010, 11:44 AM
I have a couple of left handed kids and the guys to thier right was not happy about the 22 brass from thier 10-22 hitting them. It was two guys using the same bench (left/right positions). They were annoyed enough that I stood on the kids right to block the brass.

MistWolf
September 30, 2010, 08:50 PM
Why are you asking us instead of the guy shooting next to you?

ghoster
September 30, 2010, 09:30 PM
I had a winer once, so I put the 45 and 9 away and brought out the 460 and 500. Wouldent you know the winer got mad at having his hat blown off by the concussion of the 460 too!:evil:

I was there first by the way aaand there were many other spots he could have set up at.

rondog
October 6, 2010, 01:06 AM
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/funnies/casingstothehead-funny.gif

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