Would you shoot or CCW this ammo?


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DasFriek
September 21, 2010, 02:53 AM
https://www.swampfoxgunworks.com/swampfox/home.php?cat=261

SwampFox Premium - Max Velocity Ammo
40 S&W Auto
180 gr Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point Bullets
New Starline Brass or Top Brass
Winchester or Remington large Pistol Primers
Hodgdon and/or Winchester Powder. Hand weighed
1200fps 524 ft/lbs energy@ Muzzle. From a Stock Glock 22.

40 S&W Auto
200gr Hornady XTP Hollow Point Bullets
New Starline Brass or Top Brass
Winchester or Remington large Pistol Primers
Hodgdon and/or Winchester Powder. Hand weighed
1040fps 480 ft/lbs energy@ Muzzle. From a Stock Glock 22.


Now ill be the first to admit i loved Double Taps 10mm loads when i owned my G20c, But its long gone.
Now i have a SA XD SC .40 as a secondary CCW gun and im really happy with the 165gr Ranger T-Series i carry in it.

And i really like to purchase specialty ammo from small guys who make stuff you can only dream of that no one makes, But im almost at the point of thinking this guy may be pushing the .40 a tad too far.?

They are still under 10mm specs but dead on .45acp ammo specs.
I don't know all the SAMMI info or even if i spelled it right, But i do know these are some slamming .40 rounds.

Now if i knew they were cut down 10mm brass then i wouldn't be worried, But that much pressure in an already maxed out load has got to have a failure right around the corner waiting to happen.
Get an old Glock with an older unsupported chamber and i doubt it would make it threw 1 mag. I mean id only bet a $1 or something but i know i wouldn't be the one shooting that gun.

Now, If i was fully convinced in these rounds safety and reliability. Id then have to wonder how the heck i could get the muzzle back down from the recoil.
Maybe it would have more of a 10mm push? If thats the case sign me up!

Now im only talking about this guys .40 loads, The others i looked at all looked good and not so "On the edge" as these do.

Please don't flame the guy unless you have personal experience or proof. I ask this as its a newer business and i don't want to see that hurt in any way.
I have nothing to do with them in any way, But i am interested in ordering some for some testing as see how my XD SC handles them.

The 180gr Gold Dots at 1200FPS is a bad boy and the XTP 200gr at 1040fps makes me think who needs a .45?

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kd7nqb
September 21, 2010, 03:40 AM
why not buy a box and test it out, to see how it shoots. That seems to be the STOP for a new ammo.

DasFriek
September 21, 2010, 04:11 AM
Im hoping to pick up a box or 2 when i get paid, I hope they have more .45acp options as i carry that more often.

The .45 ammo dont make me nervous like the .40 ammo does.
With some further digging i did find some more info straight from the owner on the .40 loads.
http://swampfoxgunworks.com/theswamp/read.php?4,9

He talks about using slower burning powder which makes me wonder just what kind lower FPS speeds a 3" barrel would see. Even still it should be hotter than anything else ive seen for sale.

REAPER4206969
September 21, 2010, 04:17 AM
No.

RevolvingGarbage
September 21, 2010, 04:27 AM
In a hefty solid framed S&W auto or revolver, sure, in a carry sized gun like a glock or kahr, no way.

lloveless
September 21, 2010, 04:43 AM
No, in .40 I would carry the 135 gr or 155 gr hollow points. 165 grs. and greater have too much penetration for my taste for ccw
ll

REAPER4206969
September 21, 2010, 06:24 AM
in .40 I would carry the 135 gr or 155 gr hollow points.
Very poor choice. There is a reason why the border patrol switched from 155gr. to 180gr. recently (12/09.) Carrying 135gr. is dangerously stupid.

Sgt_R
September 21, 2010, 06:39 AM
Nope. For PD/CCW, I stick with the major manufacturers, preferably whatever local and/or federal law enforcement happens to be using. Currently, my .40cal ammo of choice is the 180gr Speer Gold Dot.

R

Manco
September 21, 2010, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't use the hollow-point loads for defensive purposes because I don't have any terminal ballistics test results for them, and more powerful does not necessarily always mean more effective. The heavy loads with solid bullets might be useful for limited woods carry, though. I'd expect all of these loads to be quite loud, and they may produce a large flash as well, which I always take into consideration regarding defense. For shooting in general, I don't see a point in using hot loads outside of defense, but given the methods used by the manufacturer, I'm reasonably confident that they're safe to shoot in any quality .40 S&W firearm.

The only thing that makes me scratch my head is how far off some of the muzzle energy figures are, while others are right on the money. I would suggest that we ignore them, and only pay attention to the velocities (which are measured on a chronograph, of course). Fortunately it doesn't take a physics or mathematics degree to make quality ammo. :)

And i really like to purchase specialty ammo from small guys who make stuff you can only dream of that no one makes, But im almost at the point of thinking this guy may be pushing the .40 a tad too far.?

Well, the guy inspects and precisely measures samples of the brass to make sure that they're not being subjected to extraordinary stresses. He apparently uses a Glock 22 with .40 S&W, and no offense intended but if the brass looks alright after being shot out of one of those (given that its chamber is on the large side and its case support is on the low side, even in the latest barrels), then his ammo should be fine in practically any other gun.

They are still under 10mm specs but dead on .45acp ammo specs.

Ordinary factory loads tend to be similar between .40 S&W and .45 ACP anyway, given similar bullet weights.

I don't know all the SAMMI info or even if i spelled it right, But i do know these are some slamming .40 rounds.

Now if i knew they were cut down 10mm brass then i wouldn't be worried, But that much pressure in an already maxed out load has got to have a failure right around the corner waiting to happen.

The pressure is not necessarily higher--these loads generate more gas at a somewhat slower-than-usual rate, which creates a pressure curve that "spends more time" near the top overall and covers a greater area underneath, and the greater the area, the greater the kinetic energy of the bullet. Ideally, the curve would start fast and then slow down, keeping pressure as high as possible (but not too high!) over the whole time the bullet is in the barrel. I'm no expert, but it seems that this could be accomplished with a precise blend of at least two different propellants. Quality control also plays a role, in that you can load closer to the maximum if you're sure that you won't load too much in any given cartridge, and the ammo in question seems very consistent indeed according to chronograph readings. One way or another, greater velocity and energy are being generated without stretching the brass more than it is normally stretched.

Now im only talking about this guys .40 loads, The others i looked at all looked good and not so "On the edge" as these do.

Some of DoubleTap's .40 S&W loads come pretty darn close if you look at the figures for 4.5" barrels to get a fair comparison.

Please don't flame the guy unless you have personal experience or proof. I ask this as its a newer business and i don't want to see that hurt in any way.

If anything, I may be defending him more than I should be, since I have not even tried his ammo myself yet, but my point is that he's not doing anything that is to be automatically assumed as dangerous or outside of the physical capabilities of the caliber. It's not that .40 S&W is maxed out in ordinary factory loads by any means anyway, it's just more challenging to truly max out than some.

The 180gr Gold Dots at 1200FPS is a bad boy and the XTP 200gr at 1040fps makes me think who needs a .45?

I imagine that those loads would be pretty stout and effective, but like I said earlier I wouldn't use them without examining their terminal ballistics data to confirm, especially since specific bullets are usually developed to match specific loads these days.

ProCarryNAustin
September 21, 2010, 04:42 PM
No.

With all of the excellent choices in ammo out there, why would anyone go for a hot-rodded or gimmicky solution. It is hard on the gun. It generates more recoil. A lot of the ones I have seen also have excessive muzzle flash.... and all of that doesn't necessarily make it a more effective round.

Adam5
September 21, 2010, 06:38 PM
For .40S&W defensive rounds I'll stick with my 180gr Federal HSTs.

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